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Do you think Redguard is balanced in the current meta?

  • Mesite
    Mesite
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    No
    I had a few redguards on my old account. Never even consider it now. On the Oblivion game I loved being a redguard even if I played a magical character. That adrenaline rush power was awesome. Increased health too.
  • Castagere
    Castagere
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    No
    I don't think ZOS likes Redguards. They have the strangest passives of all the races. They don't match any of the lore from any TES game. Sword and board as a Redguard passive is a joke. They are the best warriors in every Tes game but ESO. I have been saying this for years. They are called the front-line warriors. They should be the top DPS race in the game according to their lore. ZOS making an expansion going to Hammerfell will not even make sense because of how they did the Redguards. Unless they are just going to throw out their lore history.
  • Brakkish
    Brakkish
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    Nord or Orc - it's all you need in ESO life to win.
    CP2332 +3100 hrs spent in BGs. US PS5 - Nine PVP Tanks - toons named variations of "Combat Medic" I like long walks on the beach. What's PVE? https://www.youtube.com/brakkish
  • Sheezabeast
    Sheezabeast
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    No
    Look how many people created new Dunmer during Necrom launch. Altmer for Summerset.

    That didn't happen during Hew's Bane launch :|
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!
  • Vulkunne
    Vulkunne
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    Yes
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.
    "Today victory is mine. Long live the Empire."
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Vulkunne wrote: »
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.

    Yup. I've never worried about it. Of course, I don't do group content, so it really doesn't matter to me....
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Eyr0n
    Eyr0n
    Soul Shriven
    No
    As a player who mainly does PvP, I dont have any toons that are redguard, the racial passives are just underwhelming compared to what other races have to offer.. when I play Stam I get way more value from Orc, Bosmer, Dark elf, Nord or Imperial
  • Brakkish
    Brakkish
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    Eyr0n wrote: »
    As a player who mainly does PvP, I dont have any toons that are redguard, the racial passives are just underwhelming compared to what other races have to offer.. when I play Stam I get way more value from Orc, Bosmer, Dark elf, Nord or Imperial

    This
    CP2332 +3100 hrs spent in BGs. US PS5 - Nine PVP Tanks - toons named variations of "Combat Medic" I like long walks on the beach. What's PVE? https://www.youtube.com/brakkish
  • AlterBlika
    AlterBlika
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    No
    Vulkunne wrote: »
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.

    I would give up redguard race if they become another dps race. Sustain is why people pick them, although their use is very niche
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    AlterBlika wrote: »
    Vulkunne wrote: »
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.

    I would give up redguard race if they become another dps race. Sustain is why people pick them, although their use is very niche

    I don't pick them for sustain. I pick them because they've always been my favorite race in TES (which I started playing with Arena's release in 1994). I don't do group content, so I don't have to care about why I play Redguards or Bosmer, or Bretons, or Imperials, or the occasional Altmer, and the far more than occasional Khajiit....
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • KS_Amt38
    KS_Amt38
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    No
    TaSheen wrote: »
    AlterBlika wrote: »
    Vulkunne wrote: »
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.

    I would give up redguard race if they become another dps race. Sustain is why people pick them, although their use is very niche

    I don't pick them for sustain. I pick them because they've always been my favorite race in TES (which I started playing with Arena's release in 1994). I don't do group content, so I don't have to care about why I play Redguards or Bosmer, or Bretons, or Imperials, or the occasional Altmer, and the far more than occasional Khajiit....

    Lucky you, but we are talking about usefulness in the meta not your roleplaying reasons for redguards and the passives are the worst in the game.
  • M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD
    M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    AlterBlika wrote: »
    Vulkunne wrote: »
    So in reading some of the arguments here, I kinda decided to look at this again.

    The thing is that making Redguard a 'clone' of other races powers isn't going to help much. Next to this very plausible possibility I would rather Redguard stay unique and be something different then a watered-down clone of something's that are perceived as being better.

    Less is more.

    I would give up redguard race if they become another dps race. Sustain is why people pick them, although their use is very niche

    I don't pick them for sustain. I pick them because they've always been my favorite race in TES (which I started playing with Arena's release in 1994). I don't do group content, so I don't have to care about why I play Redguards or Bosmer, or Bretons, or Imperials, or the occasional Altmer, and the far more than occasional Khajiit....

    Yup, same reason here, and I'd wager most people who've made a Redguard character post-2017 nerf did it for the sake of RP in spite of their passives.

    That being said, group content (where I play every role) is my main activity in ESO along with the occasional PvP sprinkled in and it sucks to feel like I'm missing out on a better/more effective build because of a cosmetic decision. Obviously one race can't be the greatest in every role, but it's the fact that Redguard is absolutely lacklustre in EVERY role is my point.

    I can go several months without ever crossing paths with another Redguard player character in-game, the same cannot be said of any other race. Based on this I think it's pretty safe to assume that the number of players out there who've picked them for sustain is almost none seeing as to how they're barely picked at all. It's completely evident that their passives fail to appeal in any way when compared to the better passives of other races, and the fact that nothing has been done to change this is disappointing to say the least.
    Edited by M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD on December 24, 2023 5:14PM
  • ClevererHail6
    ClevererHail6
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    Not balanced. The current meta has plenty of sustain. IMO each race would have a dps passive. Not that hard to engineer. Just dont give any race more than dunmer or orc amounts of dps.
    After Tomb Raider Guild
    Daggerfall Covenant
  • ClevererHail6
    ClevererHail6
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    Castagere wrote: »
    I don't think ZOS likes Redguards. They have the strangest passives of all the races. They don't match any of the lore from any TES game. Sword and board as a Redguard passive is a joke. They are the best warriors in every Tes game but ESO. I have been saying this for years. They are called the front-line warriors. They should be the top DPS race in the game according to their lore. ZOS making an expansion going to Hammerfell will not even make sense because of how they did the Redguards. Unless they are just going to throw out their lore history.

    I don’t know that they personally dislike Redguards. They seem scared/disincentivized to take that step to me. I wonder why.
    After Tomb Raider Guild
    Daggerfall Covenant
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Why does every race need a meta niche? I played bosmer bowsorc before bosmer was worth a dang.
  • VisitHammerfell
    VisitHammerfell
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    No
    No but they're still my fav. They better not remove or change the stam restore bonus of Adrenaline Rush.... my Redguard cro tank is so much smoother than my Nord cro tank, and helps sustain stam skills/medium armor on my Redguard magplar main. Also Redguard bashcro > Nord bashcro. A buff would be welcome of course but leave the current bonuses unchanged thanks.
    FOR THE COVENANT!
    PS NA 2200+ CP
    🦁 Colonel 1 (25)

    PS EU 1300+ CP
    🦁 Tribune 2 (28)

    PS NA Alt 500+ CP
    🦁 Captain 1 (19)

    Bring back Crafty Lerisa (with same voice actress)
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    The main race bonus of redguar concerns their stamina sustain.

    That they get a bonus for learning shield is a bit strange lore-wise. They should have gotten a dual wield bonus.

    They also should either get more damage from dual wield weapons and or maybe have faster weapon skill executions (sword master you know). Or they get a bleeding damage buf but that might limit the sets to be used so maybe not a good idea.
  • PrimusTiberius
    PrimusTiberius
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    Honestly, none of my 20 characters are Redgard, so I can't really say. Is there an advantage over an Orc?
    Everyone is going in one direction, I'm going the other direction
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    No
    It will soon be the 7th year in a row of Redguard being the most useless, underpowered race in the game. This topic pops up on the forum every so often and yet practically nothing has been done to change their current state aside from offering a miniscule buff to Adrenaline Rush in a meta where building for sustain isn't needed at all.

    I'm going to dissect how Redguard passives fail to bring anything truely useful when compared to the passives of other races in the roles of Tank, DPS, Healer, and general PvP builds.

    Tank:
    Adrenaline Rush allows Redguards to regain stamina through block which can be useful in permablocking fights, however this pretty much sums up the pros versus the several cons when picking Redguard over another race. Every other races has some sort of defensive passive whether it be resistance to a specific type of damage, a little bit of extra max health or health recovery, or straight up a bonus to resistance in general (Nord). Redguard gets snare resistance, which does NOTHING to improve their tankiness; in other words, they are THE SQUISHIEST race. Other races, specifically Nord and Imperial have ultigen/ult-cost reduction that contribute to group utility through better buff uptimes, and which indirectly contribute to sustain if playing a DK tank where ulting restores a portion of every resource. Argonian likewise offers sustain to all resource pools. Redguard passives pigeon-hole them into purely stam sustain specs in a role where magicka skills are abundant for self healing and buffing, and on top of that they offer no group utility.

    Healer:
    The healer role is one of the few areas in the game where investing in sustain is important. Redguard's 8% weapon skill cost reduction may help a little bit in this department by reducing the mag cost of the commonly used healer skills Illustrious Springs, Radiating Regen, Combat Prayer, and Wall of Elements, but this accounts for less than half of the skills in a healer's arsenal. In regards to sustain, both Imperial and especially Breton leave Redguard in the dust, not to mention that Redguard has no bonus for maximum magicka and nothing that might boost the strength of their heals. Suffice to say that Redguard passives contribute almost nothing to a healer.

    DPS:
    DPS do not need to invest in their own sustain because it is generally provided to them from an outside source (support roles in content and by the trial dummy when parsing). Building for damage is best because the shorter the fight, the less need for endurance there is. Redguards have absolutely zero damage passives, meanwhile Altmer, Dunmer, and Orc get the equivalent of an infused weapon/spell damage jewelry enchant that can be further buffed with major/minor brutality. With buffs, this ends up being being over 300 weap/spell damage, which isn't at all insignificant: it's basically a Hunding's Rage or Julianos' 5th piece bonus for free at all times. This bonus has become even more significant since the change to proc sets that cause their damage to scale with stats. Their absolute lack of both damage and survivability passives makes Redguard the best at being the worst pick for DPS.

    PvP:
    Sustain is an important element in survivability in PvP, but Redguard sustain suffers heavily in this environment because of the way their stamina recovery is obtained. For starters, Redguard will only ever really benefit a stamina setup, making them an inflexible pick from them get-go: the 8% weapon skill cost reduction is just too niche as most builds will at most slot only a handful of weapon skills. Looking at the stamina sustain side of things, Adrenaline Rush seems to offer a pretty nice amount of recovery, right? Perhaps, if PvP involved 2 people parsing away at each other until one dies :D . Obviously, this is not the case. Half the battle in PvP involves running away, kiting around cover, dodging to avoid damage, etc. In these situations where your aren't hitting the enemy, arguably the time where you rely on sustain the most, Redguard gets nothing. For sustain in PvP, Imperial, Bosmer, and Breton are light-years ahead. If damage and tankiness are your preference in PvP, Redguard isn't even on the radar.

    When ZOS added the Sea-Serpent's Coil, I thought Redguard might finally have a niche situation to be useful by reducing the strength of the 40% snare down to 25%. Turns out the snare is unaffected by such bonuses. Redguard just can't win.

    Knowing the above, do you think Redguard should continue to remain in its current state for another year? Are they balanced when compared to other races?

    No it's terrible and I came to remind ZOS that I've been asking changes for a while
    These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).
    "The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard


    PASSIVES:

    Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

    *Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
    Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

    Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

    *Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
    A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."
  • Telos_Tim
    Telos_Tim
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    Where Redguard shines is no-cp.

    Champion point sustain is ridiculous, and that is why you see so few people pick the race. For anyone that primarily plays Battlegrounds, or enjoys the No-CP campaigns/IC, the race is a really good option.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Telos_Tim wrote: »
    Where Redguard shines is no-cp.

    Champion point sustain is ridiculous, and that is why you see so few people pick the race. For anyone that primarily plays Battlegrounds, or enjoys the No-CP campaigns/IC, the race is a really good option.

    While I do think that the old rpg habit to attribute different characteristics to different "races" is a bit old fashioned and in contradiction to what in real life - luckily - less people adher to in terms of belief I think all races should be able to play any role with very similar performance.

    There is defo no reason why redguards should not perform as well as let's say dunmer in trials.

    Of course that some "races" give better mag players than others this is fine.
    Edited by AnduinTryggva on April 18, 2024 5:49AM
  • BXR_Lonestar
    BXR_Lonestar
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    No
    Redguard and wood elf need help to keep pace. The Argonian is somewhat okay, but could use some improvement as well.

    The problem is that these three races are "sustain" races, and sustain is not really a problem right now.

    Redguard could be useful as a tank if you restored stamina while blocking, but you don't, so Redguard isn't even good at that role.

    Wood elf seems like it was designed to be an offensive sustain class, but you only get additional penetration - which is currently not a problem with meta tank setups - when you dodge roll.

    Argonians in an okay spot as a support race, but they need some additional work to be usable outside of the role of a tank/healer.

    I've suggested that the redguard get extra damage when wielding martial weapons. I think that would be somewhat lore friendly and make redguard's better in the DPS role.

    Wood elves should get extra critical chance built into their kits.

    And Argonians IMO should get their Healing done/healing received back, and maybe have them do extra critical damage when coming out of sneak or when using dual wield weapons.

    Just some ideas to toss around
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Redguard and wood elf need help to keep pace. The Argonian is somewhat okay, but could use some improvement as well.

    The problem is that these three races are "sustain" races, and sustain is not really a problem right now.

    Redguard could be useful as a tank if you restored stamina while blocking, but you don't, so Redguard isn't even good at that role.

    Wood elf seems like it was designed to be an offensive sustain class, but you only get additional penetration - which is currently not a problem with meta tank setups - when you dodge roll.

    Argonians in an okay spot as a support race, but they need some additional work to be usable outside of the role of a tank/healer.

    I've suggested that the redguard get extra damage when wielding martial weapons. I think that would be somewhat lore friendly and make redguard's better in the DPS role.

    Wood elves should get extra critical chance built into their kits.

    And Argonians IMO should get their Healing done/healing received back, and maybe have them do extra critical damage when coming out of sneak or when using dual wield weapons.

    Just some ideas to toss around

    I think we could give Argonians some DoT dps like adding poison dmg to any other status damage done and this poison dot could stack with any dot or direct dmg whether poison or not.
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