10 hours maintenance, again

wowi70

jaws343 wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

I've never played an MMO with this much downtime, It's absurd.

Is this your first major MMO?

I've literally been playing MMOs for 20 years, and yes, ESO's maintenances are excessive. There's a lot of effort to make up excuses and reasons here in this thread, but no, it is not normal for a big MMO to need this much maintenance, and there is no rational reason to to try normalize it or to conceive of creative reasons for why ESO might need it. Apparently yes, they need a lot maintenance, and no, they don't want to prioritize the maintenance times in a more fair way. That's all we know. And it is most definitely an unusual amount of maintenance. 10+ hours happens in other games, but ESO has very extended maintenances on a weekly schedule, and that's not even accounting for the frequent extended unscheduled maintenances.

"more fair way"

Because nothing is more fair than forcing employees to work odd night hours to appease a subset of a playerbase of an entertainment product.

I think, not forcing employees to work even earlier in the night is literally more fair.

Forcing them to work 10 hours isnt fair too btw. But why not maintenance the servers from US with US employees? Where do their employees are from?

wowi70

imrilaoi wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

I've never played an MMO with this much downtime, It's absurd.

Is this your first major MMO?

I've literally been playing MMOs for 20 years, and yes, ESO's maintenances are excessive. There's a lot of effort to make up excuses and reasons here in this thread, but no, it is not normal for a big MMO to need this much maintenance, and there is no rational reason to to try normalize it or to conceive of creative reasons for why ESO might need it. Apparently yes, they need a lot maintenance, and no, they don't want to prioritize the maintenance times in a more fair way. That's all we know. And it is most definitely an unusual amount of maintenance. 10+ hours happens in other games, but ESO has very extended maintenances on a weekly schedule, and that's not even accounting for the frequent extended unscheduled maintenances.

Its not normal, yet... nearly every major MMO that hasn't been put on maintenance mode is doing it. FFXIV might be the only one that doesn't do it weekly. EVE does it daily.

LOL in Eve it is about 5 minutes. When you get kicked in TESO and get into queue it sometimes takes more time waiting in queue than the EVE daily maintenances )))

Lady_Galadhiel

jaws343 wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

I've never played an MMO with this much downtime, It's absurd.

Is this your first major MMO?

I've literally been playing MMOs for 20 years, and yes, ESO's maintenances are excessive. There's a lot of effort to make up excuses and reasons here in this thread, but no, it is not normal for a big MMO to need this much maintenance, and there is no rational reason to to try normalize it or to conceive of creative reasons for why ESO might need it. Apparently yes, they need a lot maintenance, and no, they don't want to prioritize the maintenance times in a more fair way. That's all we know. And it is most definitely an unusual amount of maintenance. 10+ hours happens in other games, but ESO has very extended maintenances on a weekly schedule, and that's not even accounting for the frequent extended unscheduled maintenances.

"more fair way"

Because nothing is more fair than forcing employees to work odd night hours to appease a subset of a playerbase of an entertainment product.

I think, not forcing employees to work even earlier in the night is literally more fair.

The US employees need to work during all night so US player can have their game running at midday. Why can't the Eu employees do the same? Or even better, if they can't separate the maintenances, they start work during US morning hours which is EU evening/night so the employees suffer the least, wouldn't that be better? But then of course, US players couldn't play all day... Ohw the crying would be loud.

Sorced

imrilaoi wrote: »

Its not normal, yet... nearly every major MMO that hasn't been put on maintenance mode is doing it. FFXIV might be the only one that doesn't do it weekly. EVE does it daily.

I have not played EVE, but the frequency and length of maintenances in ESO are definitely unusual. Some MMOS have weekly maintenances, but I have not seen weekly (and sometimes twice weekly) maintenances of this extensive duration in other MMOs. And yes 10 hours two weeks in a row is unusual also for ESO, but let's be honest, it's not that unusual.

Lady_Galadhiel

Sorced wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Its not normal, yet... nearly every major MMO that hasn't been put on maintenance mode is doing it. FFXIV might be the only one that doesn't do it weekly. EVE does it daily.

I have not played EVE, but the frequency and length of maintenances in ESO are definitely unusual. Some MMOS have weekly maintenances, but I have not seen weekly (and sometimes twice weekly) maintenances of this extensive duration in other MMOs. And yes 10 hours two weeks in a row is unusual also for ESO, but let's be honest, it's not that unusual.

No unusual anymore, sadly. Normaly it was always 4 to 6 hours even with patches, but lately the 10 hour once become more frequent.

Sorced

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

centime

Sorced wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

Or maybe it is simply due to the fact that they need to coordinate maintenance between NA and EU, that it is not in fact bias, but a necessary part of maintenance with time differences being a thing. I doubt that ZOS is prioritizing the US over the EU.

Valion

Stop ranting, the EU server is back online.

wowi70

centime wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

Or maybe it is simply due to the fact that they need to coordinate maintenance between NA and EU, that it is not in fact bias, but a necessary part of maintenance with time differences being a thing. I doubt that ZOS is prioritizing the US over the EU.

I am pretty sure he hit the nail on the head. You could organize it that way that both zones have in 50% of all cases maintenance during daytime. Btw where do the employees work who are responsible for maintenance? In EU, US or in both zones?

imrilaoi

Sorced wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

I don't think its about prioritizing US players, its about the dev team. The dev team is US based, with EU staff being what few GMs exist, customer support, and hardware maintenance, with actual dev work being in Maryland, US. Their relatively new Hungarian sub-office (Nemesys Games company, renamed to ZeniMax Online Studios Hungary) doesn't seem to work on ESO.

wowi70

imrilaoi wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

I don't think its about prioritizing US players, its about the dev team. The dev team is US based, with EU staff being what few GMs exist, customer support, and hardware maintenance, with actual dev work being in Maryland, US. Their relatively new Hungarian sub-office (Nemesys Games company, renamed to ZeniMax Online Studios Hungary) doesn't seem to work on ESO.

So the US staff has to work during night time? Why not during day time?

wilykcat

The time duration posted for maintenance is an estimate. Sometimes it takes shorter or longer time to do maintenance.

Also it's snowing outside ❄️

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

I've never played an MMO with this much downtime, It's absurd.

Is this your first major MMO?

I've literally been playing MMOs for 20 years, and yes, ESO's maintenances are excessive. There's a lot of effort to make up excuses and reasons here in this thread, but no, it is not normal for a big MMO to need this much maintenance, and there is no rational reason to to try normalize it or to conceive of creative reasons for why ESO might need it. Apparently yes, they need a lot maintenance, and no, they don't want to prioritize the maintenance times in a more fair way. That's all we know. And it is most definitely an unusual amount of maintenance. 10+ hours happens in other games, but ESO has very extended maintenances on a weekly schedule, and that's not even accounting for the frequent extended unscheduled maintenances.

"more fair way"

Because nothing is more fair than forcing employees to work odd night hours to appease a subset of a playerbase of an entertainment product.

I think, not forcing employees to work even earlier in the night is literally more fair.

The US employees need to work during all night so US player can have their game running at midday. Why can't the Eu employees do the same? Or even better, if they can't separate the maintenances, they start work during US morning hours which is EU evening/night so the employees suffer the least, wouldn't that be better? But then of course, US players couldn't play all day... Ohw the crying would be loud.

I would not be surprised that it is US teams doing the maintenance on both the EU and US systems. While there will be cases that people need access to the physical servers most software can be installed from anywhere. This would also explain the overlapping outage times.

CGPsaint

Another patch come and gone and still no mention of a fix or the actual fix in sight for broken achievements. Kudos ZOS.

wilykcat

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/648131/fyi-patch-maintenance-dec-6-for-all-megaservers#latest

centime

CGPsaint wrote: »

Another patch come and gone and still no mention of a fix or the actual fix in sight for broken achievements. Kudos ZOS.

Different type of maintenance this time.

CameraBeardThePirate

wilykcat wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/648131/fyi-patch-maintenance-dec-6-for-all-megaservers#latest

It's wild to me that so many people are asking questions and complaining when the reasoning behind this maintenance being long and at an unusual date/time were very clearly explained by ZOS.

jaws343

wowi70 wrote: »

imrilaoi wrote: »

Sorced wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

But then of course, US players couldn't play all day...

I agree, I don't think there's a logical way to argue that this isn't about prioritizing US players over EU players. Which maybe makes economic sense for ESO more than other games, IDK. However, we are not being treated equally and we have no communication from ZOS about why that decision to prioritize the US has been made.

I don't think its about prioritizing US players, its about the dev team. The dev team is US based, with EU staff being what few GMs exist, customer support, and hardware maintenance, with actual dev work being in Maryland, US. Their relatively new Hungarian sub-office (Nemesys Games company, renamed to ZeniMax Online Studios Hungary) doesn't seem to work on ESO.

So the US staff has to work during night time? Why not during day time?

It is fairly logical to have it run in the morning to give time later in the work day to manage any unexpected problems. Rather than having to manage those problems in the evening.

And, while it is an early start for a US based team, it is still not 1am early. Or true "overnight" early. Which is what people in this thread are almost demanding so they can play in the EU during their evening. Of which, maintenance is still done by like 7/8pm for them anyways. If it were a true daytime US maintenance time, EU players would lose their entire evening.

Aurielle

wowi70 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

Not subbing to ESO+ does make a huge difference in my own tolerance for extended and frequent downtime. Lately, maintenance has been happening on my days off from work. Is it annoying? A little, yes, but at least I don’t feel like I’ve wasted my money anymore.

People claim ESO+ is essential for storage, but I honestly don’t have a storage issue or find inventory management annoying. Mind you, I only have one main character at the moment, plus two characters for utility (master crafter and provisioning mule). I could see it being a problem for altaholics.

[Edited quote]

imrilaoi

jaws343 wrote: »

If it were a true daytime US maintenance time, EU players would lose their entire evening.

They'd lose more than their daytime, yep.

December 6, 3:00AM EST (08:00 UTC) - 1:00PM EST (18:00 UTC)

8AM until 6PM for EU is really reasonable. I'm willing to be the times picked are because a good portion of the EU and the US aren't inconvenienced by these times, "national holidays" aside. Most people don't consider the day time to be prime time, thats evening for most of us.

CGPsaint

centime wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Another patch come and gone and still no mention of a fix or the actual fix in sight for broken achievements. Kudos ZOS.

Different type of maintenance this time.

Understood, however they've been ignoring bug reports pertaining to broken achievements for a year now, so I'll be posting this every time until they respond or address the issue.

OtarTheMad

It’s really not that big of a deal, plus ZOS put a link explaining why so we all knew. It’s just part of one day out of 7 in a week, just do something else lol. If I want to play and have time but ESO servers are down I just play something else or I do something else entirely.

Warhawke_80

Meh...Hardware updates are a bear...personally I would never give a ETA for those.

IZZEFlameLash

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

Scarefish wrote: »

People are on and on about what time would be appropriate. Less time is the only time that would be appropriate. Fortnite is usually ready to go in 15 minutes, and that game is huge. You could do the patching at any time of day if it's only going to take 15 minutes.

Are you a Software Developer? Have you worked on either ESO or Fortnite? You can't really compare apples to pears, and if you can fix the things ZOS is currently looking into within a timeframe of 15 minutes you'd literally be the AI-God nobody knows about. Seriously, you should lodge your job application now and they'd hire you instantly.

Sure, nobody likes maintenance, and I'm not going to cheer about the fact that it takes 10 hours or longer, because I probably hate maintenance more than you do, but if you really believe ZOS' software developers and technicians are doing this for no good reason you're being a bit funny.

Huge doesn't necessarily equal complex!

I find this 'are you (name of the job or person)? No? Then stop complaining about things you have no idea about' thing quite condescending and hilarious. You, are obviously not the person you are responding to and yet you have expressed your disagreement with the person without knowing their full story. With this logic, we will never be able to say anything because someone somewhere will always disagree with whatever was said.

Consumers have rights to complain and make comparison to other products in the market in the process. Consumers are like the HR processing your applications, they don't care about how much hard work you put into that resume. They only care what they see and will compare your resume against their standards and other applicants. Because, surprise, consumers are there to consume the end product that was sold to them for money.

Hotdog_23

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

If it was only 10 hours. I expect more and am pretty sure I will not be disappointed.

Stay safe

Credit where credit is due, done in 10 hours, thanks.

Stay safe

Rowjoh

flubber77 wrote: »

TheGrace wrote: »

I would love to have an explanation of why they do it during daytime for eu, i mean, im paying eso+ but its gonna be already 2 days that i can’t play for me with the last week maintenance, i dont get why they are not able to run it during nightime

You think eve or night players did not complained when server went down before? this has changed over the years from late evening to night and now mornings, no matter what time it is there will always be at the cost of players time and from what i see for the pvp part, this time is the least playerbase online on EU server, i guess this apply for pve also even a bit more players do pve.

Although there are always some late evening/night players (PC EU), everywhere is pretty dead, so number of people affected by, say a 2am GMT maintenance, would be minimal.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

As this thread has derailed with baiting and bashing commentary, we've decided to close it down. While we can understand that players may be upset about maintenance(s), we still ask that posts be kept civil, constructive, and within the rules. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.