Update 41 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

If the archive is endless, why am I expected to just do as much as possible in one sitting?

Roxy
Roxy
✭✭✭
Since I can travel out of maelstrom and vateshran and come back to finish it the next day so long as I’m okay with forfeiting the leaderboard, I don’t understand why the ‘endless’ challenge would be the one that limits you to a single sitting of gameplay. I was looking forward to a challenge of being able to see how far I could possibly get on the back of my own skill rather than how long I can sit and stare at my screen for. Anyone else think it would be nice to be able to load out of the archive and still jump back in at the level you left off at providing that you didn’t lose all of your lives or manually reset it?
  • NeuroticPixels
    NeuroticPixels
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the archive is endless, why am I expected to just do as much as possible in one sitting?

    You make a very valid point. And like the things you’ve mentioned, there’s ways the devs could remedy this.
    Check out the ReShade I made: Crispy Sharpness
  • Roxy
    Roxy
    ✭✭✭
    If the archive is endless, why am I expected to just do as much as possible in one sitting?

    You make a very valid point. And like the things you’ve mentioned, there’s ways the devs could remedy this.

    It just makes sense to me, since the other two arenas are limited number of rounds and I can manage to beat either on vet inside of an hour (easily one game play session), why would we be able to take a break on these but not on the one thing that theoretically could go on forever
  • AlterBlika
    AlterBlika
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nah, EA is failure in this regard. Just run it for the rewards which are sometimes nice.
  • freespirit
    freespirit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I would go there much more if my progress was saved.

    I have issues which mean I cannot sit in front of a screen for hours on end and this means my forays into EA will atm always be only the first two arcs...... around halfway through arc 2 I tend to start to have problems with my health issues. :(
    When people say to me........
    "You're going to regret that in the morning"
    I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Because endless actually refers to how much time you need to spend in there.
  • Roxy
    Roxy
    ✭✭✭
    freespirit wrote: »
    I would go there much more if my progress was saved.

    I have issues which mean I cannot sit in front of a screen for hours on end and this means my forays into EA will atm always be only the first two arcs...... around halfway through arc 2 I tend to start to have problems with my health issues. :(

    I think this will resonate with a lot of people who have either health issues or just even time commitments. Plenty of my friends get on for a few hours after work at night which is usually enough time for us to get to arc 4/5 and then we have to give up so they can sleep for work the next day.
  • Dr_Con
    Dr_Con
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Because endless actually refers to how much time you need to spend in there.

    I'm pretty sure it's endless because the Tho'at Replicanum literally made infinite copies of itself and all you're doing is helping to limit its influence in select areas of the archive as well as get missing pages for all the filers.
  • TheNuminous1
    TheNuminous1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm finding time to end my runs more often then dying. I can't play for more then an hour or two straight so if I could save and come back that would be great. I've NEVER cared about leaderboards in the last 10 years of this game. So I certainly don't care now. I just wanna see how far I can get without having to play for hours straight.
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The leaderboard rewards aren't anything special anyways, so I don't see why there's an issue with saving progress. I, like many others have posted, don't often have enough time in the day to test my true abilities in the Archive. It's fun content, but I'm going to find myself ending runs at or before Arc 4 most of the time due to real life responsibilities/touching grass.
    Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It had the idea of being a type of Arena. Apparently there's leaderboards for it too, so even if it's endless, it's meant to test how far you can achieve in one go, like a score, not as a progression.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • disintegr8
    disintegr8
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    You would need to have to be able to save progress for it to be legitimately called endless. If nothing else kills you, time availability will always limit your progression.
    Australian on PS4 NA server.
    Everyone's entitled to an opinion.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Endless(ly time consuming) Archive is the reason why.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • oldbobdude
    oldbobdude
    ✭✭✭✭
    It may be a “saving the instance” kind of thing but it should be doable. But a real endless archive would have to have a boatload of arcs if progress was saved. I haven’t done one yet because of this very issue. So I’m unsure if each arc is different or if they are just scaling difficulty.
  • Hapexamendios
    Hapexamendios
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    My lack of time is the main reason I can't make much progress in it. I can get one arc done, but don't have many opportunities to go much further.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    oldbobdude wrote: »
    It may be a “saving the instance” kind of thing but it should be doable. But a real endless archive would have to have a boatload of arcs if progress was saved. I haven’t done one yet because of this very issue. So I’m unsure if each arc is different or if they are just scaling difficulty.

    In reality, it is literally just mobs hitting you harder while being tanky and some of arc boss spawns getting into your next arc stages basically. So, no difference in aesthetics, no real new mechanics higher you go. Just that you now have to deal with Tho'at shards + Marauders that can one shot you.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Aislinna
    Aislinna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ily2xhGU6HA&t=2012s&ab_channel=SkinnyCheeks''

    at 28:35, the developer talks about why you can't save progress.

  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aislinna wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ily2xhGU6HA&t=2012s&ab_channel=SkinnyCheeks''

    at 28:35, the developer talks about why you can't save progress.

    This reminded me of that one Nick Fury quote about ignoring the council 🤭
    Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • DarcyMardin
    DarcyMardin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Not being able to save is just plain bad. Last night I was soloing arc one and managed to get past the last boss prior to the final fight (one of those nasty dragons, who killed me twice before I finally beat him) and had the Tho’at fight, which I have learned and beaten before, down to her last gasp when my game crashed.

    When I managed to get back in, I had of course died and been transported back to the beginning. This has happened so often to me, both solo and duo — 3rd death due to meeting a trial boss or simply getting DC’d, which happens to me way more than usual since this latest patch — that I am rapidly losing interest in the Endless Archive.

    The bosses are interesting to fight, although I hate the randomness of not seeing any of them often enough to learn their fights. But the trash mobs, especially when you have to do them over and over just to get back to the same point where you were on your last run, are utterly boring and irritating.
  • DinoZavr
    DinoZavr
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aislinna, technically saves can be done.

    For solo or playing with Companion this is not hard to implement. game just records the stage you left, your next verse (or two if there was a portal to Unknown), your active visions - and, abracadaba, progress saved.

    For two players, some "consent" is to be agreed. Like two pressure plates both players climb on. The game records partners UserIDs and character IDs, also verses and visions. This does not require a lot of database disk space. Restoring is trickier, as upon entering with the same team both players are to agree to restore, but if they have saved theirs run, most likely they agree to jump into the saved state.

    What if player saves many times with different teams. ZOS can limit the total number of saves and number of saves per day
    (again, due to the fact EA is very time consuming, limited number of saves/restores is not an issue)
    If ZOS worries about using Armory, they can set a cooldown on restores like 15 or 30 minutes (to prevent gear changes between each of the cycle bosses) this will limit number of restores per day (as the day has only 24 hours)

    The point is we don't know about Zenimax intentions.
    Do they plan to implement saves at all? (Players massively demand this, as humans, normally, have some life outside the games, but is that a priority for them game-makers?)
    Some communication from Zeni on the matter would be nice.
    PC EU
  • Aislinna
    Aislinna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DinoZavr wrote: »
    The point is we don't know about Zenimax intentions.
    Do they plan to implement saves at all? (Players massively demand this, as humans, normally, have some life outside the games, but is that a priority for them game-makers?)
    Some communication from Zeni on the matter would be nice.

    I recommend giving the interview a listen if you want to know what ZoS communicated about reasoning and intent around the ability to save. ZoS has communicated on the matter, which is why I shared the interview to help the OP understand the "why".

  • Lugaldu
    Lugaldu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Without save progress I'll never see how far I could theoretically get - I don't have more than 1.5-2 hours of play time at a time and that means I have to leave Arc 2 in the middle every time, which really annoys me. I have no idea how the devs could come up with such a concept, which is completely impractical and frustrating for all the people who have duties IRL and can't play for 5, 10-20 hours at a time.
  • MidniteOwl1913
    MidniteOwl1913
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lugaldu wrote: »
    Without save progress I'll never see how far I could theoretically get - I don't have more than 1.5-2 hours of play time at a time and that means I have to leave Arc 2 in the middle every time, which really annoys me. I have no idea how the devs could come up with such a concept, which is completely impractical and frustrating for all the people who have duties IRL and can't play for 5, 10-20 hours at a time.

    Two hours is my max as well. Having a hard time frame also limits my ability to group.

    I don't think this content was created with the average player in mind.

    PS5/NA
  • Aardappelboom
    Aardappelboom
    ✭✭✭✭
    I agree, don't mind the threads and love the dungeon in general, but having to play in one running is just annoying. I'd love to hop in-game and play a round or two, but it takes way to long to play since you have to just keep on going right now.

    Even in terms of leaderboards it would be perfectly doable, just a different approach.
  • Roxy
    Roxy
    ✭✭✭
    Aislinna wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ily2xhGU6HA&t=2012s&ab_channel=SkinnyCheeks''

    at 28:35, the developer talks about why you can't save progress.

    Tbf what he said in this video isn’t really all that relevant cos all he said was ‘there were a lot of potential for exploits that we didn’t want to have to look at, there’s a lot of bugs that could come up from us trying to do that, so we just didn’t, but I guess if enough feedback wants it we can have a look at it’

    This is literally feedback. [Snip].

    [Edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 22, 2023 1:58PM
  • Pixiepumpkin
    Pixiepumpkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There was a man who died (I believe he was Korean) around 2004-2005 while grinding for High Warlord in World of Warcraft. The way the honor grind was designed, you had to pour in countless hours to beat everyone else. Endless Archive is similar this way. It rewards massive amounts of time put into it, but in one UNHEALTHY siting.

    These kinds of mechanics should absolutely not exist. It taunts die hard players to push their limits, unfortunately this can lead to literal death of the person.

    I personally would change it based on this information alone.
    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
  • Four_Fingers
    Four_Fingers
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, my thumbs are killing me. :D
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, save progress must be a thing. We are not all blessed like some streamers who can endlessly do Endless Archive.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's an endurance test to see who can sit in front of their system the longest, neglecting everything else, for the highest score.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • peacenote
    peacenote
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    To me it is reminiscent of the arcade days where you could only go so far without putting in more quarters. If you walked away... that was it.

    I like that.

    But with limited time to play, I wouldn't mind starting where I left off either. Maybe a version with less rewards?

    I keep changing my mind every time I play. I like it the way it is. But wouldn't hate another option either.
    My #1 wish for ESO Today: Decouple achievements from character progress and tracking.
    • Advocate for this HERE.
    • Want the history of this issue? It's HERE.
  • NeuroticPixels
    NeuroticPixels
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Roxy wrote: »
    all he said was ‘there were a lot of potential for exploits that we didn’t want to have to look at, there’s a lot of bugs that could come up from us trying to do that, so we just didn’t, but I guess if enough feedback wants it we can have a look at it’

    Wow… just… wow.

    Do they want this game to be a success, or… ?
    Check out the ReShade I made: Crispy Sharpness
Sign In or Register to comment.