monolith of storms

Quethrosar

I fully stickered it and made a front bar set.
It's very limiting in its use with its small area of damage and needing 2 up at a time to do damage.
In magsorc mode i like to use mage wrath to open on trash stuff in hopes it will die in 1 or 2 hits more. But once the mob is dead the monolith is useless in its position.
I would never body this set so i am forced to put hurricane on front bar for it.
it would be useless on anything that moves.

I want to like the set, but its going to be useless in its current form.
Either a passive boost like mage wrath is an execute at 50% or much bigger damaging area and active with only needing one up would be nice.

on stamsorc i do not see using this set at all as i need the spots for weapons.

Necrotech_Master

on paper and thematically the set sounds kind of interesting but i agree in practice its too difficult to use

instead of the monoliths tethering to each other and with their weird caveat that enemies can only take dmg from them every 2 sec, the monoliths should either do like aoe dmg pulses in an area around them (enemies could still have the caveat they could only be dmg by this every 2 sec to prevent stacking, more monoliths would just cover more area)

or the monoliths should tether to a target, dmging the target and enemies between the target and the monolith, the caveats could be that the target can only be tethered to 1 monolith at a time, and maybe still include the caveat about not being able to be dmg too fast, but that might be overkill (dmg should just be adjusted in the case the enemy is taking dmg from multiple monoliths)

Quethrosar

i also see no reason these special class sets should not be the most dps capable sets. or at least do a balancing run of sets in the game so they all make the same dps so you can have choices.

Chilly-McFreeze

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

on paper and thematically the set sounds kind of interesting but i agree in practice its too difficult to use

instead of the monoliths tethering to each other and with their weird caveat that enemies can only take dmg from them every 2 sec, the monoliths should either do like aoe dmg pulses in an area around them (enemies could still have the caveat they could only be dmg by this every 2 sec to prevent stacking, more monoliths would just cover more area)

or the monoliths should tether to a target, dmging the target and enemies between the target and the monolith, the caveats could be that the target can only be tethered to 1 monolith at a time, and maybe still include the caveat about not being able to be dmg too fast, but that might be overkill (dmg should just be adjusted in the case the enemy is taking dmg from multiple monoliths)

If they aren't using the chance to redesign the set to e.g. making Fury a spammable etc. I'd like the idea that they should do AoE dmg around the monoliths. Or maybe several ST direct dmg for CP interaction?

Or at least let the monoliths tetter to you, so you can at least somewhat control where it does dmg.

Necrotech_Master

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

on paper and thematically the set sounds kind of interesting but i agree in practice its too difficult to use

instead of the monoliths tethering to each other and with their weird caveat that enemies can only take dmg from them every 2 sec, the monoliths should either do like aoe dmg pulses in an area around them (enemies could still have the caveat they could only be dmg by this every 2 sec to prevent stacking, more monoliths would just cover more area)

or the monoliths should tether to a target, dmging the target and enemies between the target and the monolith, the caveats could be that the target can only be tethered to 1 monolith at a time, and maybe still include the caveat about not being able to be dmg too fast, but that might be overkill (dmg should just be adjusted in the case the enemy is taking dmg from multiple monoliths)

If they aren't using the chance to redesign the set to e.g. making Fury a spammable etc. I'd like the idea that they should do AoE dmg around the monoliths. Or maybe several ST direct dmg for CP interaction?

Or at least let the monoliths tetter to you, so you can at least somewhat control where it does dmg.

yeah theres a lot they could do to improve the set

the biggest problem i see with the set as current is that 1 monolith does nothing and is useless

having the monoliths tether to a target wouldnt be too different than the greater storm atro ulti, except it could possibly dmg other things besides the target its attached to

but even then the set would still use a ton of more logic and server calculations to function correctly than any of the other sets, and is by far still the most convoluted set to use

Turtle_Bot

The set is pure garbage and was clearly deliberately designed to be that way based on what happened during the 5 week PTS cycle.

All of these issues were brought up at minimum daily, if not almost hourly, over the course of the entire 5 week PTS cycle with combat metrics, parse numbers, and every single other objective metric you could think of, being provided that proved these issues with the set and how bad and clunky it was to use, even compared to post nerf Pillar of Nirn and other lower tier sets.

All of this feedback was completely ignored and on top of this, ZOS then went ahead and made the set even worse than it originally was by changing its damage type from "Direct, Single Target" to "Damage over Time, AoE" effectively nerfing it by 18% to 24% due to the loss of interactions with the slotted CP that sorcs need to run for their active abilities.

Many, many, many suggestions were made to fix/rework the set that were either a complete rework or even keeping the current design, but making it more usable, including:
- remove the limit to allow stacking
- make it on any tick of a storm calling
- make the monoliths themselves deal damage around them
- make fury into a proper spammable when target is above 20% health (reverts back to its current ability when target is below 20% health)
- make the beams tick every 1 second instead of 2 (like all ground based AoE DoTs are supposed to be)
So many more suggestions were made, but again, it was all completely ignored.

The closest the set got to what could be considered a buff, was; they "fixed an issue where the set could not crit". This just meant the set was designed to be the way it currently is and as such it was designed to be a filler set that would only see use for role playing.

This Patch cycle made it abundantly clear to many that Sorcerers and no-pet sorcerers in particular are not welcome in ESO anymore.
It's a real shame, because from ZOS's own data, Sorcerer used to be the most popular class in the game (coincidently, this was also back when sorc had options outside of just pets to choose from for defense (healing) and that could also still keep up with the other classes for offense before all the other classes got massive power creep).

Quethrosar

I brought it through vdsr tonight. I had to run magsorc mode to make the most of it. I felt like I was mediocre with it. I had to use things like lightning splash to get the most out of it. I definitely saw a lower dps than normal.

Turtle_Bot

yep, to get the most efficiency out of the set required slotting both Lightning form + Lightning Splash on the front bar (despite both abilities being ones you want on the back bar to gain the 12% buff from inferno staff buff to DoTs) since fury only works below 20% health.

These abilities forced onto the front bar means that you cannot run something like daedric prey front bar since you would have both pets + splash + form + spammable front bar (or give up 1 pet for barbed trap/camo hunter/inner light), which makes the rotation extremely clunky, switching bars every 5-6 seconds for prey or you lose insane damage (or healing on a solo build) due to dropping 1 of the pets.

With my (and others) testing during the PTS, before the set was significantly nerfed with the change to its damage type, it was already 5-10% less DPS than running post nerf pillar of nirn, you can imagine what it was like post damage type change.

After the change to the damage type, it was worse than other older sets like each different proc of illambris (so less than half the total dps illambris provides) and the set itself was never made any easier to use to account for this significant dps drop.

As I said, all of this was brought to the devs attention constantly throughout the 5 week PTS cycle and nothing was done to bring it up to par with any of the other class sets. It was completely ignored and left to go live in its worthless state.

If you want some more info, check out the official item sets feedback thread on the PTS section of the forums.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/643313/pts-update-40-feedback-thread-for-new-class-item-sets/p1

You can see, from the very first post on the official thread, the sorc set was clearly not good (with plenty of posts coming later with hard data, CMX, parses, etc to back this up) and in clear need of a significant redesign/rework.

phaneub17_ESO

Try it at Harrowstorms, Geysers, and Dolmens; places where mobs keep spawning periodically or have larger health pools.

Turtle_Bot

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Try it at Harrowstorms, Geysers, and Dolmens; places where mobs keep spawning periodically or have larger health pools.

People tried it on large groups, the issue with those is that the set stacks the monoliths on top of each other so unless you recast lightning splash/fury, or run to a different enemy and recast lightning form, the monoliths stack up on top of each other and the beams don't do anything since there's no enemy between the stacked monoliths.

Check out the official feedback thread I linked above, it goes over this situation more in-depth there as well.

OtarTheMad

It’s a very niche set I think. I think it would only really be good against big groups in Cyrodiil by using Streak and some other Storm calling abilities like Fury and Overload to get Monoliths.

When I was testing Monoliths it seemed that the ability that opened up the set and made it fun was Streak which I doubt you would use in an endgame situation…. Other PvE situations sure but far from meta.

So while it can be fun and you can use it in PvE and PvP it’s really not great for endgame and score pushing groups. Not every set has to be but that crowd seems to who Endless Archive is intended for.

Turtle_Bot

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It’s a very niche set I think. I think it would only really be good against big groups in Cyrodiil by using Streak and some other Storm calling abilities like Fury and Overload to get Monoliths.

When I was testing Monoliths it seemed that the ability that opened up the set and made it fun was Streak which I doubt you would use in an endgame situation…. Other PvE situations sure but far from meta.

So while it can be fun and you can use it in PvE and PvP it’s really not great for endgame and score pushing groups. Not every set has to be but that crowd seems to who Endless Archive is intended for.

the main issue I see with it in PvP is that it ticks every 2 seconds.

as a stationary ground based DoT, you'll get hit by it once then either roll or walk out of its very narrow beam AoE and never take any further damage from it, even breaking free from streak won't keep enemies inside the beam longer than 1 (2 at the absolute max) ticks of the set.

ZhuJiuyin

This set is very bad. In addition to the complicated prco conditions, too low damage, and mediocre AOE capabilities, if you are close to the BOSS in actual combat, sometimes your character will be squeezed out by the lightning rod (it is indeed a lightning rod, not a stone!) , or interrupt your character's actions.
In addition, the current magicka version of Sorc is very poor, causing Sorc to lack enough magicka recovery and skill sources to use monolith of storms.


Comparison of major changes in all classes sets during the PTS cycle

But, of course, these questions have been raised countless times on PTS.
However, the official position has been expressed through actions, that is, complete silence.
It seems that Sorc has become the number one official unpopularity. Can we expect Sorc to be completely removed from the game next?

OtarTheMad

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It’s a very niche set I think. I think it would only really be good against big groups in Cyrodiil by using Streak and some other Storm calling abilities like Fury and Overload to get Monoliths.

When I was testing Monoliths it seemed that the ability that opened up the set and made it fun was Streak which I doubt you would use in an endgame situation…. Other PvE situations sure but far from meta.

So while it can be fun and you can use it in PvE and PvP it’s really not great for endgame and score pushing groups. Not every set has to be but that crowd seems to who Endless Archive is intended for.

the main issue I see with it in PvP is that it ticks every 2 seconds.

as a stationary ground based DoT, you'll get hit by it once then either roll or walk out of its very narrow beam AoE and never take any further damage from it, even breaking free from streak won't keep enemies inside the beam longer than 1 (2 at the absolute max) ticks of the set.

Yeah I didn’t like that either, gave feedback that it should be every second. If it ticked every second the set would still be niche but a lot more fun. I guess ZOS didn’t like that idea. To really maximize the set you got to use Streak for the initial hit damage but also the stun but yeah… players will just CC out.

You could try to encase someone and/or Rune Prison but still, every 2 seconds is a draw back.

Quethrosar

In pve every second would make it much more useful for sure. Make it even with stuff like nirn at least so it's feasible as dps best in set.

tsaescishoeshiner

While a rework might be needed, what if they just made it so that YOU counted as one of the tether points?

With an AoE around each tether for like 4m.

So that we could at least guarantee it would hit enemies near us and that we're aiming at, as long as we stay in position.

ZhuJiuyin

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

While a rework might be needed, what if they just made it so that YOU counted as one of the tether points?

With an AoE around each tether for like 4m.

So that we could at least guarantee it would hit enemies near us and that we're aiming at, as long as we stay in position.

Then we just get another Necromancer, but a weaker version.

Looking at other classes sets, unique buffs or proc methods, why can't sorc get something similar?

Turtle_Bot

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

While a rework might be needed, what if they just made it so that YOU counted as one of the tether points?

With an AoE around each tether for like 4m.

So that we could at least guarantee it would hit enemies near us and that we're aiming at, as long as we stay in position.

All of these were also suggested and completely ignored.

SkaraMinoc

This is a monolith.



This is a coat rack.

OtarTheMad

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

This is a monolith.



This is a coat rack.

Thank you! LoL. When I first read “Monoliths…” that’s all I thought of and was curious how it was going to work. When I saw the set I was like… “in what universe are those monoliths”

ZhuJiuyin

In PTS, the shape of monolith of storms has also been proposed:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644556/crit-is-not-enough-for-monolith-of-storms#latest

The shape obviously does not match the name.
However, even if the shape and name are so contrary to logic, the Sorc set still does not deserve any changes.
ZOS has indeed used actions to show everyone that Sorc is not welcome.

grzes848909

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

This is a monolith.



This is a coat rack.

Sorc's set is a dissapointment both in visuals and bonuses it provides. You can't even use it for roleplaying purposes cause the monoliths (if you dare call them that way) are downright ugly and pitiful

On the side note they should change (hopefully but highly doubt it) at least some things about this set in upcoming incremental patch but I have no idea when that is.

MashmalloMan

Can't wait for the masses, especially console players, to get a hold of this set only to realize what we realized on PTS week 1 just from reading the notes over a month and a half ago.

This set is bad on paper and only gets worse the more you try to make it work.

Do not use this set. Period.

Maybe ZOS will eventually show data that Sorcs despite collecting it, have no interest in wearing it.. because our complaints on PTS however detailed and precise, were never answered.

MashmalloMan

grzes848909 wrote: »

On the side note they should change (hopefully but highly doubt it) at least some things about this set in upcoming incremental patch but I have no idea when that is.

Update 41 is typically around 1st/2nd week of March. This is the longest downtime in the games release cycle at about 5 months, we get access to PTS around end of January where we can confirm if the set has been adjusted or not.

grzes848909

MashmalloMan wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

On the side note they should change (hopefully but highly doubt it) at least some things about this set in upcoming incremental patch but I have no idea when that is.

Update 41 is typically around 1st/2nd week of March. This is the longest downtime in the games release cycle at about 5 months, we get access to PTS around end of January where we can confirm if the set has been adjusted or not.

If this update wasn't proof enough of eso being run by skeleton crew, I don't what is.

sharquez

Funny enough for all the hate this set gets I've gotten to arc 7 with on on my mag sorc. There are probably better sets and I wouldn't hate to see it get buffed but "Useless Garbage"? Not at all.

MashmalloMan

sharquez wrote: »

Funny enough for all the hate this set gets I've gotten to arc 7 with on on my mag sorc. There are probably better sets and I wouldn't hate to see it get buffed but "Useless Garbage"? Not at all.

You could run a set that gives you pvp damage reduction and you would still be able to hit arc 7, that example doesn't really mean anything.

When a set is worse than every other option, including but not limited to simple options available to everyone like Hundings Rage or Order's Wrath, then functionally, yes, it's considered useless garbage.

It's not even visually appealing to the point where it's nice to run for RP purposes.

Necrotech_Master

grzes848909 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

On the side note they should change (hopefully but highly doubt it) at least some things about this set in upcoming incremental patch but I have no idea when that is.

Update 41 is typically around 1st/2nd week of March. This is the longest downtime in the games release cycle at about 5 months, we get access to PTS around end of January where we can confirm if the set has been adjusted or not.

If this update wasn't proof enough of eso being run by skeleton crew, I don't what is.

that has no bearing on "skeleton crew" the game has literally always been like that because in the US nov/dec are major holiday periods, which is where the the devs work and live

the Q4 release has always been the last major content release (they do sometimes do small patches between Q4 and the next years Q1 to fix bugs and such)

MashmalloMan

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

On the side note they should change (hopefully but highly doubt it) at least some things about this set in upcoming incremental patch but I have no idea when that is.

Update 41 is typically around 1st/2nd week of March. This is the longest downtime in the games release cycle at about 5 months, we get access to PTS around end of January where we can confirm if the set has been adjusted or not.

If this update wasn't proof enough of eso being run by skeleton crew, I don't what is.

that has no bearing on "skeleton crew" the game has literally always been like that because in the US nov/dec are major holiday periods, which is where the the devs work and live

the Q4 release has always been the last major content release (they do sometimes do small patches between Q4 and the next years Q1 to fix bugs and such)

Yeah that isn't really what my comment was getting at. This is just how things go. Chapter + Q3 and Q4 are all super close together because that gives them time to capitalize on their new player audiance. It's obvious why they make a bigger gap after that point so they can focus on next years chapter. Q1 DLC is small to allow the playerbase that stuck around something to tide them over till summer, when the next chapter releases again.

Pretty much all MMO's and live service games go through these cycles. They know they're going to lose players at specific times throughout the year. They do their best with in game events back to back, etc, but sometimes you take the hit and focus efforts elsewhere.

Malprave

I put this on my stam sorc in place of pillar of nirn to check it out , not that I wasn’t satisfied with pillar of nirn. It seems to do fractionally less damage. If you have very high dps I’m sure that gap widens, but running around solo or in pugs the difference was minimal. It’s just another component in a long list of damage but near the top, not the bottom.
I found the effect to be interesting and the proc condition fairly easy. If you’re a stam sorc you’re running hurricane anyway, drop liquid lightning as well and it will hit three stacks. Hit any low health enemies with mages wrath and you for sure have three stacks.
If you want the absolute highest damage, then no you’re not going to run it. If you can’t or don’t want to run the skills that proc it, again, you’re not going to run it.
Should it be buffed? I don’t know. In the grand scheme of things it’s actually fairly easy to get. You don’t have to get very far at all to buy the set from the archive vendor.

MashmalloMan

Malprave wrote: »

I put this on my stam sorc in place of pillar of nirn to check it out , not that I wasn’t satisfied with pillar of nirn. It seems to do fractionally less damage. If you have very high dps I’m sure that gap widens, but running around solo or in pugs the difference was minimal. It’s just another component in a long list of damage but near the top, not the bottom.
I found the effect to be interesting and the proc condition fairly easy. If you’re a stam sorc you’re running hurricane anyway, drop liquid lightning as well and it will hit three stacks. Hit any low health enemies with mages wrath and you for sure have three stacks.
If you want the absolute highest damage, then no you’re not going to run it. If you can’t or don’t want to run the skills that proc it, again, you’re not going to run it.
Should it be buffed? I don’t know. In the grand scheme of things it’s actually fairly easy to get. You don’t have to get very far at all to buy the set from the archive vendor.

It deals about 20-30% less than pillar and aegis caller. That isn't the main issue, although it's certainly something since they're all easy to obtain proc sets, but only Monolith has a super niche proc condition requiring specific skills and an easy to avoid stationary, 2s tick rate aoe dot.

The main issue is all the damage you're sacrificing to pull it off by not running a pet and how poorly it functions when it does proc by spawning randomly, most of the time, not in aoe, but on the same target.

Sure.. if you're already using a build that has Sorcs most underpowered skills, then yeah, the damage difference between pillar and monolith is minimal because all you're losing is about 1-2k dps, in reality, you're losing much more by using this set if you had an endgame meta setup because you're forgoing a pet and an awkard bar setup to make it work.

Until non pet sorc gets improved for pve, this set has no right doing less dps (when it does work) than universally available proc sets. Even if it was 50% stronger than Aegis Caller, I still wouldn't run it because of the skills you need to drop/rework for it.