PVP is dead to me

SandandStars

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

vermanderdieterb16_ESO wrote: »

there is just no balance, too many tanks that dont take any damage even if u hit them with a whole team. 0/10 would not recommend. PVP in the current state is just broken. gave this game an other chance after a few years away from it and i'm sad to say i'm out again. Fix your game ZOS

It's not that bad. Those unkillable tanks you're talking about can't kill anyone. I have one of those, sometimes I play him for luls. And it amazes me every time how many people try so hard to kill me that they completely lose the objective in BGs or get separated from their group in Cyro. It's fine that they try, but after pounding me for 2min they still don't wanna give up lol. In the meantime my team is playing the objective and winning or killing them one by one while they focus on me lmao.

It's nothing to do with balance, it's your own decision to fight those tanks. There are other people to go after.

I think I can agree with this. I haven't seen any 'unkillable' tanks outside of those that were fully spec'd into being tank and do nothing other than that. There are 'tanky' people but certain classes seem to delete them when they get their combo off as well. So... I am not sure. Maybe depends on builds. Someone running just 1 set or no set golded items will find everyone too tanky while someone with decent build might not. My build is ill-equipped to fight anyone with tons of healings but I do decently against non-sweaty people in a way (despite all the ping related delays) and am pretty sure will be called 'tank' to them.

I honestly don't get the unkillable tank thing.
I have a PVE Arcanist tank and if I bring her into PvP sure she can tank alot, but eventually she just runs out of resources and dies anyway.

Being a tank doesn't mean you have unlimited stamina and magicka. I don't get it.
Maybe people complaining about tanks should try resources draining poisons.
And don't get me started about knight slayer.

I still find high speed high damage characters to work best for me in PvP.

You're bringing a PvE tank into PvP and expecting it to work.

Tanks built for PvP can be (with relative ease) functionally immortal unless an entire zerg spends 5 minutes wailing on them. They can absolutely have unlimited resources. That is a problem.

This is simply untrue.

If it were possible we would be seeing this everyday and there would be videos of this happening all the time.

The game simply does not allow anything like that.

https://eso-sets.com/set/shell-splitter
https://eso-sets.com/set/jerall-mountains-warchief
https://eso-sets.com/set/balorgh

Yes you can build a defensive character but this character will not survive a zerg.

You can build an offensive character to counter this defensive character as well. This offensive character will not kill an entire zerg.

Although many people who have had their character shown to be deficient in the face of the one of these builds will often say that its as strong as a group of 12.

There is never video evidence to go with the claim and it's something you don't see in any stream.

There have been times when people have posted something and it's turned out to be something like prenerf Maras Balm on the PTS or something equally ridiculous that didn't make it to the live servers.

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Brakkish

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

Alharion

Pvp wasn't happy before the ray killer gameplay, but since it became the meta of the moment pvp has become execrable with that in battleground, you play a ray, you win with your fingers in your nose, in battleground it doesn't make any sense now because of that, it's really ridiculous.

There's also this unpleasant feeling of being up against eels rather than men, I don't understand how the devs aren't able to care about this extremely weird sliding movement of the characters, this movement is really very accentuated in pvp, worst game I've ever seen in my life in that respect. Has a tube of Vaseline leaked into the lines of code?

SkaraMinoc

BlackRaidho wrote: »

Play it No-CP, and i'll be fine.

This is a funny recommendation because No-CP itself is dead.

mmtaniac

For me too until they change templar damage to be usable in pvp.

TechMaybeHic

mmtaniac wrote: »

For me too until they change templar damage to be usable in pvp.

Just use the forementioned sets. Then just forgo damage abilities, and sustain; because you run a free ability for one, a heavy attack that restores a resource, and 1 cheap ability. Just leave enough to heal, buff, and defend.

Caecus0

Can confirm, it's just a tank meta. I don't go to Cyro anymore because it's a lag fest. So I scratch that itch by doing battlegrounds.

Of course that ends up being un-fun mess when you come across players who have one job: go to an objective and not die, and an entire team can attack them for ages and they simply will not go down.

It also happens to normally be Wardens. So I don't know if every class can do this or if this specifically a Warden thing.

Caecus0

Brakkish wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

I was talking to someone today about tanks being out of control. Someone said I should run anti-tank sets like Shell Splitter.

My response was that would make sense if we got an entire team built around tank-busting. If an entire team of 4 can't kill a tank, how does one expect a single player with even 100% armor pen to do anything?

Sure, you can ignore the tank, but that doesn't work in game modes with objectives worth holding. Nevermind the fact that tanks can bring support capabilities to the table valuable to their team. One such ability is the Flare, as well as various forms of CC. They aren't just invincible mobile statues that are there to look pretty; they are active participants in fights.

A team of Tanks can kill a DPS. A team of DPS cannot kill a tank.

EDIT: Grammar

mmtaniac

Current pvp it's toxic. First tanky builds are out of control. Game need some control over power in pvp some limits to your builds on pvp only on pve i don't care. On pvp should be some limits.
Should be something like 3 options you can only take 2 from Healing/Defense/Damage if i take defense and damage i have no healing if i choose healing and damage than i have no defense if i take defense na healing i have 0 damage.
Right now you can be everything with some builds and on some classes. Game should have some extra debuff to limits something like that for less toxic pvp. I know many people will dislike that but we see right now how bad this is .
If people not die less people play pvp. Not every players want to play 100% meta builds with meta gear and meta skills and meta thinking. Right now game is : We hear you like meta so we put meta in your meta and you can be meta with your meta build . It's bad and you can't play as you like(Game motto: Play as you like) I can't meta is on the road and block it.

Caecus0

In my opinion, anyone who says Tanks are fine because they can't kill anything are coping. Sure, tanks won't kill a DPS if the DPS is tanky enough themselves and puts effort into not dying to the tank. This is true, but it doesn't matter if you are playing any objective-based mode. It's also important to note that a Tank is a much bigger threat to a DPS than the DPS is to the tank. Tanks do damage, but not a lot of damage, but a bunch of tanks can do respectable damage. Tanks also bring tam utility, so they aren't just a mobile statues that look pretty. A team of Tanks can kill a DPS, but a team of DPS is not killing a properly-built tank. This is why we are seeing a lot more tanks. The only reason we are not seeing even more than current is because playing as a tank against more tanks is not fun to play and certainly isn't fun to watch. It's like watching rocks beat each other with pool-noodles: nothing is going to happen and the fight is only going to end when they get bored.

So after reading more posts here and others like it in other threads, I think it's pretty clear the community is in agreement that tanks are getting out of control. We want people to play how they want, and tanking should be a useful role in PvP without them being basically immortal (obviously the flip-side is we don't want damage to be so out of control that one-shots are incredibly frequent unless you have a glass-cannon bursting another glass-cannon). There needs to be a balance, and it seems clear that tanks way out of balance.

I think the best way to address this is for ZoS to make a change to Battle Spirit that exclusively effects tank builds, or make mechanical change to tanking that is unnoticed in PvE but very much noticed in PvP. As for what that change should be... I'm not entirely sure.

All I know is I'm avoiding PvP until this gets addressed. I mostly play this game for the PvP, so I guess that means I'm not going to be playing the game much if at all until this gets addressed.

ProudMary

Caecus0 wrote: »

In my opinion, anyone who says Tanks are fine because they can't kill anything are coping. Sure, tanks won't kill a DPS if the DPS is tanky enough themselves and puts effort into not dying to the tank. This is true, but it doesn't matter if you are playing any objective-based mode. It's also important to note that a Tank is a much bigger threat to a DPS than the DPS is to the tank. Tanks do damage, but not a lot of damage, but a bunch of tanks can do respectable damage. Tanks also bring tam utility, so they aren't just a mobile statues that look pretty. A team of Tanks can kill a DPS, but a team of DPS is not killing a properly-built tank. This is why we are seeing a lot more tanks. The only reason we are not seeing even more than current is because playing as a tank against more tanks is not fun to play and certainly isn't fun to watch. It's like watching rocks beat each other with pool-noodles: nothing is going to happen and the fight is only going to end when they get bored.

So after reading more posts here and others like it in other threads, I think it's pretty clear the community is in agreement that tanks are getting out of control. We want people to play how they want, and tanking should be a useful role in PvP without them being basically immortal (obviously the flip-side is we don't want damage to be so out of control that one-shots are incredibly frequent unless you have a glass-cannon bursting another glass-cannon). There needs to be a balance, and it seems clear that tanks way out of balance.

I think the best way to address this is for ZoS to make a change to Battle Spirit that exclusively effects tank builds, or make mechanical change to tanking that is unnoticed in PvE but very much noticed in PvP. As for what that change should be... I'm not entirely sure.

All I know is I'm avoiding PvP until this gets addressed. I mostly play this game for the PvP, so I guess that means I'm not going to be playing the game much if at all until this gets addressed.

Proc sets often give tanks very significant burst damage. And they don't even have to do anything to make it happen. The proc sets are out of control in ESO and very significantly upset any attempts to balance PvP.

Caecus0

ProudMary wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

In my opinion, anyone who says Tanks are fine because they can't kill anything are coping. Sure, tanks won't kill a DPS if the DPS is tanky enough themselves and puts effort into not dying to the tank. This is true, but it doesn't matter if you are playing any objective-based mode. It's also important to note that a Tank is a much bigger threat to a DPS than the DPS is to the tank. Tanks do damage, but not a lot of damage, but a bunch of tanks can do respectable damage. Tanks also bring tam utility, so they aren't just a mobile statues that look pretty. A team of Tanks can kill a DPS, but a team of DPS is not killing a properly-built tank. This is why we are seeing a lot more tanks. The only reason we are not seeing even more than current is because playing as a tank against more tanks is not fun to play and certainly isn't fun to watch. It's like watching rocks beat each other with pool-noodles: nothing is going to happen and the fight is only going to end when they get bored.

So after reading more posts here and others like it in other threads, I think it's pretty clear the community is in agreement that tanks are getting out of control. We want people to play how they want, and tanking should be a useful role in PvP without them being basically immortal (obviously the flip-side is we don't want damage to be so out of control that one-shots are incredibly frequent unless you have a glass-cannon bursting another glass-cannon). There needs to be a balance, and it seems clear that tanks way out of balance.

I think the best way to address this is for ZoS to make a change to Battle Spirit that exclusively effects tank builds, or make mechanical change to tanking that is unnoticed in PvE but very much noticed in PvP. As for what that change should be... I'm not entirely sure.

All I know is I'm avoiding PvP until this gets addressed. I mostly play this game for the PvP, so I guess that means I'm not going to be playing the game much if at all until this gets addressed.

Proc sets often give tanks very significant burst damage. And they don't even have to do anything to make it happen. The proc sets are out of control in ESO and very significantly upset any attempts to balance PvP.

I'm mostly just seeing either tanky DPS who use the Master Dual-wield set to spam Rending Slashes combined with Maarselok, or just straight up immortal tanks. I see the Vateshran Destro staff too I suppose, but I usually just run out of range of it. I mostly just see the first two.

Which proc sets are you referring to exactly? I'm genuinely just curious.

ProudMary

Caecus0 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

In my opinion, anyone who says Tanks are fine because they can't kill anything are coping. Sure, tanks won't kill a DPS if the DPS is tanky enough themselves and puts effort into not dying to the tank. This is true, but it doesn't matter if you are playing any objective-based mode. It's also important to note that a Tank is a much bigger threat to a DPS than the DPS is to the tank. Tanks do damage, but not a lot of damage, but a bunch of tanks can do respectable damage. Tanks also bring tam utility, so they aren't just a mobile statues that look pretty. A team of Tanks can kill a DPS, but a team of DPS is not killing a properly-built tank. This is why we are seeing a lot more tanks. The only reason we are not seeing even more than current is because playing as a tank against more tanks is not fun to play and certainly isn't fun to watch. It's like watching rocks beat each other with pool-noodles: nothing is going to happen and the fight is only going to end when they get bored.

So after reading more posts here and others like it in other threads, I think it's pretty clear the community is in agreement that tanks are getting out of control. We want people to play how they want, and tanking should be a useful role in PvP without them being basically immortal (obviously the flip-side is we don't want damage to be so out of control that one-shots are incredibly frequent unless you have a glass-cannon bursting another glass-cannon). There needs to be a balance, and it seems clear that tanks way out of balance.

I think the best way to address this is for ZoS to make a change to Battle Spirit that exclusively effects tank builds, or make mechanical change to tanking that is unnoticed in PvE but very much noticed in PvP. As for what that change should be... I'm not entirely sure.

All I know is I'm avoiding PvP until this gets addressed. I mostly play this game for the PvP, so I guess that means I'm not going to be playing the game much if at all until this gets addressed.

Proc sets often give tanks very significant burst damage. And they don't even have to do anything to make it happen. The proc sets are out of control in ESO and very significantly upset any attempts to balance PvP.

I'm mostly just seeing either tanky DPS who use the Master Dual-wield set to spam Rending Slashes combined with Maarselok, or just straight up immortal tanks. I see the Vateshran Destro staff too I suppose, but I usually just run out of range of it. I mostly just see the first two.

Which proc sets are you referring to exactly? I'm genuinely just curious.

You named the main offenders. There is also Rush of Agony, Dark Convergence and others.

Dem_kitkats1

JanTanhide wrote: »

Why would you expect "balance" between a Tank and a DPS? Tanks just tank. Don't attack them. They are there to distract you and ping your Ying to get their Yang. LOL.

It's not balanced when tankiness is the most effective way play, and the game objectives reward it. There's very few counters to the amount of mitigation and passive healing in game, and a lack of variety in terms meaningful dps playstyles comparable to tanks. It's not balanced in terms of yin and yang. Therefore the majority of players gravitate towards tankier playstyles leading to stale and frustrating PvP.

Caecus0

ProudMary wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

In my opinion, anyone who says Tanks are fine because they can't kill anything are coping. Sure, tanks won't kill a DPS if the DPS is tanky enough themselves and puts effort into not dying to the tank. This is true, but it doesn't matter if you are playing any objective-based mode. It's also important to note that a Tank is a much bigger threat to a DPS than the DPS is to the tank. Tanks do damage, but not a lot of damage, but a bunch of tanks can do respectable damage. Tanks also bring tam utility, so they aren't just a mobile statues that look pretty. A team of Tanks can kill a DPS, but a team of DPS is not killing a properly-built tank. This is why we are seeing a lot more tanks. The only reason we are not seeing even more than current is because playing as a tank against more tanks is not fun to play and certainly isn't fun to watch. It's like watching rocks beat each other with pool-noodles: nothing is going to happen and the fight is only going to end when they get bored.

So after reading more posts here and others like it in other threads, I think it's pretty clear the community is in agreement that tanks are getting out of control. We want people to play how they want, and tanking should be a useful role in PvP without them being basically immortal (obviously the flip-side is we don't want damage to be so out of control that one-shots are incredibly frequent unless you have a glass-cannon bursting another glass-cannon). There needs to be a balance, and it seems clear that tanks way out of balance.

I think the best way to address this is for ZoS to make a change to Battle Spirit that exclusively effects tank builds, or make mechanical change to tanking that is unnoticed in PvE but very much noticed in PvP. As for what that change should be... I'm not entirely sure.

All I know is I'm avoiding PvP until this gets addressed. I mostly play this game for the PvP, so I guess that means I'm not going to be playing the game much if at all until this gets addressed.

Proc sets often give tanks very significant burst damage. And they don't even have to do anything to make it happen. The proc sets are out of control in ESO and very significantly upset any attempts to balance PvP.

I'm mostly just seeing either tanky DPS who use the Master Dual-wield set to spam Rending Slashes combined with Maarselok, or just straight up immortal tanks. I see the Vateshran Destro staff too I suppose, but I usually just run out of range of it. I mostly just see the first two.

Which proc sets are you referring to exactly? I'm genuinely just curious.

You named the main offenders. There is also Rush of Agony, Dark Convergence and others.

Thanks for the info... I'm not saying you are wrong, but I almost never see Rush of Agony. I see DC once in a while but not often. But as you said, the others are definitely the main offenders and those are the ones I see the most. If they aren't using the proc sets you mentioned, they are just pure tanking. Either way is just plain un-fun to deal with.

OBJnoob

Not gonna lie I don't see a whole lot of tanks in BGs. Could be an MMR thing, or a platform thing. Of the tanks I do see most of them are fairly easy to kill with 2 or 3 capable players on them. That is thanks to a lack of CP and due to well timed unblockable stuns.

It could also be just a player that's really good. High weapon damage also gives you high healing. Most good players, when on defense, look very tanky. It doesn't mean they are. Any average-or-better brawler build is gonna be able to stand in the thick of things for 10 seconds without dying. it's kinda the benchmark-- and it doesn't make you a tank. Anything less makes you a glass cannon, actually.

Caecus0

OBJnoob wrote: »

Not gonna lie I don't see a whole lot of tanks in BGs. Could be an MMR thing, or a platform thing. Of the tanks I do see most of them are fairly easy to kill with 2 or 3 capable players on them. That is thanks to a lack of CP and due to well timed unblockable stuns.

It could also be just a player that's really good. High weapon damage also gives you high healing. Most good players, when on defense, look very tanky. It doesn't mean they are. Any average-or-better brawler build is gonna be able to stand in the thick of things for 10 seconds without dying. it's kinda the benchmark-- and it doesn't make you a tank. Anything less makes you a glass cannon, actually.

I see around 2 per match, with one instance an entire team in a BG being nothing but tanks with no less than 40k health a piece (two had over 50k). They just rushed to the Chaosball, took it, and then proceeded to never die. Thy even got a few kills on the glass cannons that failed to kill them. Trying to do anything to them was like banging your head against a brick wall. It was that match that got me into this thread.

huskandhunger

Vampire Undeath passive should become Minor Protection above 60% and major protection below 60% hp.

Turtle_Bot

Brakkish wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

Every time I see a tank like that, I check my ulti.
Am I full ulti? Ignore them
Do I need ulti? sweet free ulti gen station

xFocused

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

Every time I see a tank like that, I check my ulti.
Am I full ulti? Ignore them
Do I need ulti? sweet free ulti gen station

Exactly. My group sees a tank like this? Build your ulti and move on

Theignson

I still enjoy open world PvP. There's things that have become very boring (like chasing people around resource towers, or ball groups doing laps at Arrius third floor), but I still like the big battles for keeps and large fights in the open.
I never really liked BG for some reason.

Two things I find that keep PvP interesting:
1) Play all the different classes. This can be challenging, but you learn a lot. Right now I think sorc is the most challenging class to play due to poor heals.
2) Try lots of different builds.

Ramzdonb16_ESO

vermanderdieterb16_ESO wrote: »

there is just no balance, too many tanks that dont take any damage even if u hit them with a whole team. 0/10 would not recommend. PVP in the current state is just broken. gave this game an other chance after a few years away from it and i'm sad to say i'm out again. Fix your game ZOS

Once they remove sets from pvp it will be the best game

Brakkish

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

Every time I see a tank like that, I check my ulti.
Am I full ulti? Ignore them
Do I need ulti? sweet free ulti gen station

Facts.

Ulvich

vermanderdieterb16_ESO wrote: »

there is just no balance, too many tanks that dont take any damage even if u hit them with a whole team. 0/10 would not recommend. PVP in the current state is just broken. gave this game an other chance after a few years away from it and i'm sad to say i'm out again. Fix your game ZOS

Same... I haven't been in a BG in very long time. Maybe 8 or 9 years. I have been into Cyrodiil a few times, but not for combat. I just don't like the mechanics of how it's all set up.

SandandStars

What if all pvp tanks are alien life forms that only possess one finger and nine brain cells?

Janni

xFocused wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

on xbox na there are plenty of “practically unkillable” tanks that regularly squat on flags holding block. all 4 bg team members can wail on them for a couple minutes and not kill them.

it’s totally doable, you just need to know how to build for it.

Just 4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flHpD-esoRw
Gotta love the 4 stacks or perma burning I ended up with.

Every time I see a tank like that, I check my ulti.
Am I full ulti? Ignore them
Do I need ulti? sweet free ulti gen station

Exactly. My group sees a tank like this? Build your ulti and move on

I usually do that and encourage others too. But sometimes you can't. They are besieging critical keeps or holding flags that need to flip. The worst situation is that you'll usually be stuck in combat with them until they die... which could be very long time. It's even more annoying when you are in a place full of doors like imperial city and they troll you. They know there is no way you can ever kill them but they won't stop bashing you so that you cannot even walk through a door to go somewhere else. you are literally forced to just queue out of imperial city.

Brakkish

SandandStars wrote: »

What if all pvp tanks are alien life forms that only possess on finger and nine brain cells?

You're not wrong! As a tank, I'll be the first to admit it's (for me anyway): hold block with one hand, eat cheetos with the other.

In fact someone whispered me in game just the other day: "Garbage, all you do is stand there holding block."

The conversation ended with me replying: "Make me do something different."

TechMaybeHic

I never understand the giving end of hate tells. Receiving them just makes for a reading to friends and we all have a good laugh.

Alharion

TESO in 2023 The pvp or only those with a ray, have the right to play ...

The bow is a mess in no CP and in BG, a 2-handed arma still as [snip] as ever, the devs these days.........

[edited for profanity bypass]

Caecus0

huskandhunger wrote: »

Vampire Undeath passive should become Minor Protection above 60% and major protection below 60% hp.

I am not saying you are wrong about this Passive, but if you see the video posted, they don't even drop below 90% of their health even with at least 10 people wailing on them.

This happens in Battlegrounds a lot as well, where the tank in question never really gets low enough for Undeath to be a factor. If I had to wager, they would probably remain mortal just to keep their resource generation and reduce flame damage taken (Fighter's Guild and Fire Damage skills are deceptively strong vs Vampires and I'm not sure why more people don't utilize this, but I digress...)

The Key strategies for tanks in PvP is to be able to permablock while maintaining resources to cast a few things, and I think this has a lot to do with going back and forth between Sword and Board and Frost Staff. Resource generation only stops when you are blocking with the respective resource... I.E., your Stamina Regeneration stops while blocking with Sword and Board but you still recover Magicka, and the reverse is true of Frost Staves. This allows a tank to drain one resource perma blocking while recovering the other, then switching. Combine this with reduce block cost stats, a decent Stamina and Magicka bar and regeneration, and some healing skills, and you have a recipe for an immortal build.

In my opinion, ZoS needs to make it more punishing for Tanks to that... At least in PvP.

I'm just spitballing here, so take this with a grain of salt, maybe adding a small debuff to someone where after blocking an attack, the cost of blocking additional attacks cost a tiny bit more. I'm talking like 1% increased cost per stack. This debuff could last even as low as 3 seconds, but carries over to both Frost Staff and Shield blocking. This will allow perma-block builds to block for a decent amount of time, but eventually force them to do something else or risk losing their resources and becoming vulnerable.