It feels like ESO is Good, but not Fun?

Melian

Finding skyshards certainly addressed my "reward center". Of course, you wouldn't have had that experience since you used a map to find them.

BETAOPTICS

Warning, a wall of text.

Yes this is a hard subject in my opinion because different players in different situations all have their own experiences and may vary greatly. When I go to do missions, I do follow the golden rules of MMO. Which are, always do missions when appropriately levelled, explore and check everything etc.

But when I do go to the missions. They are firstly quite hard to be honest. It seems like the scaling is done a bit wrong at times and the expectations of players versus the developers might not be met.

Let me give you and example from me today:

So, I am currently playing as an Aldemri Dominion soldier, a two handed melee tank with a slight focus on DPS, but mainly tanking. I do admit it that tanking in MMO's is still a somewhat new concept for me but I have experienced my fair share to know a thing or two about tanking in MMORPG kind of games.

So I was to set foot on an island in order to potentially kill off the Veiled Heretanse (?). This quest is for level 11 characters and is a solo only experience and there I was, all geared up and ready to go.

So on I went and the first thing I encountered was 5 enemies at once, all sharing different roles with the exclusion of a mage of any sort. But a tank, ranged and CQB DPS enemies. I died two times for the ridiculous burst they gave me when my damage, resistances and heals with potions were not able to match all of them.

Gladly for me, I managed to take out a few at a time so the rest were easy to kill and so I progressed. The next encounter was three enemies, one of them was a miniboss fighter that was pretty identical to my class while the two were nothing more than cannon fodder.

But this warrior, he was a pain in the flesh to take out. Not only did he do a lot more damage than I was able to do but he also shared undodgeable special attacks due to desyncing and had twice the health I had.

Tried 9 times total in which the last time I managed to exploit the AI to complete the mission. This was with all the talent I had and barely won him. The reward? Well a cloth that my health/stamina focused character does not need what so ever.

It made me thinking about the balance and how it was changed. So we all know that the game was said to be to easy. Zenimax probably wanted to then balance the game out based on players feedback. This is good in itself but how was it balanced. Is the DPS the way to go, is it due to the mechanical issues that ranged might have better times or melees might excel better in the missions.

Are the rewards to blame, or the technical issues. Is the game geared towards groups? Are the class and skill attributes somewhat unbalanced. Can't say, many things factor into our experience and I can only speak for myself.

What I can say however is that there still clearly are some issues here and there that need further investigation to make proper adjustments. Now it is a whole another debate whether or not the game can be balanced around all kinds of different player groups due to how the game is done, due to technical and mechanical reasons.

Caves in open world can either be too easy or too hard and catering towards one group over the other will kill off their fun but at the same time, you should need to find a golden middle line for all groups and experiences.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong here. I really like this MMO. It is one of the few I have actually felt like being a part of the world that I already know so much about and that immersion is a big thing for me so there are a lot of things this game does right. But don't make a mistake here, it isn't perfect, far from it but I guess it is pretty standard in MMO's that launch.

Some may argue that MMO's aren't meant to be a solo experience. This is completely true and a valid claim. However, as far as my friends go, only one likes TES series and he said the game was still too expensive for him in his current time to be bought so in the meantime, I will just have to make the best of it while I adventure trough out the Tamriels landscapes.

BmcD73

Trouvo wrote: »

You can block it and mitigate the damage you recieve, another player behind the wraith can interrupt it when the red lines indicate he is channelling, a DK can use the pull to take aggro if he is channeling, and there are other abilities you can use to stop him too.

We tried much of that. But if you miss one interrupt...dead. The intro dungeons are supposed to be a bit more forgiving and the need to have "perfect specs" or specific skills or gear shouldn't be in the equation for intro dungeons. The other thing is the hate tables. The bosses almost always went after the healer first no matter what we did.

mutharex

BmcD73 wrote: »

Trouvo wrote: »

You can block it and mitigate the damage you recieve, another player behind the wraith can interrupt it when the red lines indicate he is channelling, a DK can use the pull to take aggro if he is channeling, and there are other abilities you can use to stop him too.

We tried much of that. But if you miss one interrupt...dead. The intro dungeons are supposed to be a bit more forgiving and the need to have "perfect specs" or specific skills or gear shouldn't be in the equation for intro dungeons. The other thing is the hate tables. The bosses almost always went after the healer first no matter what we did.

That's because healing generates a LOT of aggro. And that's why in this game healers cant sit back and heal while watching tv...

It's a learning process, people will get there or quit in frustration. Either way fine with me

Orizuru

So you're saying you require a reward every 15-30 minutes to have fun? I'm not sure you know how to have fun.

morgueanna

I think this MMO is geared towards a different type of player, OP.

I've only logged on for a few hours since early access started because my schedule is full. I've spent most of that time exploring the starter island, picking up quests, and just picking up crafting materials. I stop to talk to NPC's to hear their stories. I take time in every location to search for chests and hidden content. I practice different setups of my skills on the bar to see which combinations work best with casters, ranged attacks, and sword and board enemies.

If you're looking to rush through every zone, you're going to be disappointed. You're constantly going to be hitting the wall of your gear and skills not being at the same level as the new content. You're going to chew through the quests just for the XP and skill points without really spending time practicing your skills and how they work on different mobs. You're going to do group content like dungeons and face wipes because you're not yet familiar with your skills setup and how to maximize them to their best potential.

Take a breath. Explore. Work on your skills. Craft some gear so you won't be wandering into a new zone underdeveloped. Most importantly, start making a friends' list and join a guild or two so you can start figuring out what your role is in a group situation.

The rewards for this game are much different than other MMO's. The rewards come in finding chests, reading lore books, discovering jokes and stories with NPC's. Sure, levelling is fun and getting new skills is a blast, but those can't be the only thing you look forward to or you'll be left disappointed. This is a game that's meant to be a marathon, not a race.

Desmadona

Ichthys wrote: »

I do agree however, that the economy of the game itself is pricy, e.g., 17K gold for a STARTER horse if you did not buy the upgraded game with the 1G horse. Gah! I think part of that is exactly what was mentioned previously, though, to slow you down so everything does not come to you immediately.

I thought this too... Until I thought about it. In most games, you get a mount around level 20 (at their launch) and buying it is usually somewhat of a hardship - you have just enough if you didn't buy crap from a vendor, etc... by the time you get to 20. This game might end up the same. I have 6kish at level 14, getting more and more each level. I'm guessing I'll have around 20k by level 20 (anyone who's 20 have a number who didn't buy the horrendously overpriced gear or weapons or anything?), which seems about right.

For me, though, it feels like such a chore to level and I'd be really annoyed at my lack of a mount if I hadn't bought the CE.

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fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

I don't get why people feel compelled to post the reasons why they are going to do or not do something, i.e. play a game, any game. None of us are that significant or important. This post belonged in the 'Reason for Leaving ' box that goes directly to the developers, not cluttering the list of subjects of players sharing with each other that are and intent to play the game.

These forums are for people to discuss their experiences in an MMO. Not all of us are existentialists either. Some of us like to hear other people's thoughts I even liked reading yours! Mostly because you have a lot to say for someone who's not significant or important

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I also agree with the OP about the dangling carrot issue. What if I don't want to craft my own gear and weapons? I don't get enough rare mats to upgrade or make them particularly useful. What if I refuse to pay some insane amount for marginal upgrades from a vendor that have no special attributes? Then I'm stuck in the mish-mash of quest gear I'm provided and things I get from chests. My luck being among the worst of anyone ever, This gearing scheme is failing me.

I feel a distinct lack of "oooh shiny!"

Another thing the OP touched on is personality. This game was designed for immersion - specifically to not have other people notice you. So who gives a rat's ass what your gear looks like (sure it's painted on, but some variety here, lease!), what emotes you're doing, etc... I'd even be happy with a cool flip once in a while - something so I don't feel like just another NPC who's been duped into doing the bidding of some lazy or otherwise challenged SOB.

Khandi

I think it is the general lack of information that gives people that weird feeling.

Your 'reward center' works in a few ways. You don't have much of an idea what your XP is or your damage or what the reward will be or how much XP it will give....and so on.

The game is irksome to get stuff done, like: it want you to craft but gives so little bank space. It wants you to group (Rings of Mara) but makes it difficult if you aren't on the exact same quests. It wants you to create the character you want but you need every skill point from every possible thing you can do to advance your character (read: points for weapon, armor, skills, crafting, racial etc) in the beginning that's next to impossible. It wants you to sell items but gives you no way to do that except to join 5 guilds. Your 'reward center' disapproves.

I am willing to give it a few more weeks but if there isn't some major improvements I may need to move along.

mutharex

Desmadona wrote: »

These forums are for people to discuss their experiences in an MMO. Not all of us are existentialists either. Some of us like to hear other people's thoughts I even liked reading yours! Mostly because you have a lot to say for someone who's not significant or important
.

Actually, no. These forums are made for Players to help players, that's why there is no General and the whole thread is waaaay Off Topic (aside from a bit trollish)

Khandi

mutharex wrote: »

Desmadona wrote: »

These forums are for people to discuss their experiences in an MMO. Not all of us are existentialists either. Some of us like to hear other people's thoughts I even liked reading yours! Mostly because you have a lot to say for someone who's not significant or important
.

Actually, no. These forums are made for Players to help players, that's why there is no General and the whole thread is waaaay Off Topic (aside from a bit trollish)

Then there should be so people like you don't come along and decide something is 'waaaaay Off Topic'.

I liked this topic, it opened up a lot of discussions and got people to think about things from other angles.

No General Discussion category....one more reason to feel weird about ESO. Thanks for pointing it out. LOL.

mutharex

I don't decide what's Off Topic, the forum rules do. And thanks for adding to my feeling of trollishness...

Melian

You know what else activates my reward center?
Attempting a solo boss 7 times, making adjustments to my rotation and strategy all the while, and finally killing him. You know, the exact same thing other people complain about and run to the forums crying for a nerf.

mutharex

Melian wrote: »

You know what else activates my reward center?
Attempting a solo boss 7 times, making adjustments to my rotation and strategy all the while, and finally killing him. You know, the exact same thing other people complain about and run to the forums crying for a nerf.

The game launches on friday and we already have people who want mini map, at least two rows of hotbars, an AH, tab targeting and cool downs and please make the mobs hit less and give me some epics! Sad, very sad

powderdtoastman

I have not been this addicted to a game since Vanilla WOW, that is both good and bad :P but on a pure "where did the time go" factor I have not seen a game like ESO in 9-10 years and it will only get better soooooo stop your bellyaching to those who have nothing but Bile to Spill!

Khandi

mutharex wrote: »

I don't decide what's Off Topic, the forum rules do. And thanks for adding to my feeling of trollishness...

You're so silly! It's not 'trollishness' to have a discussion. Calling it thus doesn't make it so.

mutharex

Khandi wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

I don't decide what's Off Topic, the forum rules do. And thanks for adding to my feeling of trollishness...

You're so silly! It's not 'trollishness' to have a discussion. Calling it thus doesn't make it so.

Oh it is if you aren't supposed to be having a 'discussion' because of forum terms and if the theme of the 'discussion' wasn't pure trollbait

BETAOPTICS

mutharex wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

I don't decide what's Off Topic, the forum rules do. And thanks for adding to my feeling of trollishness...

You're so silly! It's not 'trollishness' to have a discussion. Calling it thus doesn't make it so.

Oh it is if you aren't supposed to be having a 'discussion' because of forum terms and if the theme of the 'discussion' wasn't pure trollbait

I agree with Khandi. We can endlessly debate whether or not this topic was created in the right section but the truth is, there isn't much one. So points made by one are as much correct as points made by the other. Let's keep it civil though, for the good of the community.

What comes to to powderdtoastman's comment. You can't comprehend of the idea that not everyone will share your experiences and that people might have different expectations to you? Just because you like it, doesn't mean that they are wrong either or that you should instantly start to invalidate others because they don't go well along with your experiences. I can not understand the modern gamer entitlement these days we have.

I mean good for you if you are absolutely loving the game. It is awesome, you should feel awesome and developers should feel awesome that they managed to make game that you like. That being said, it is more of a issue to the other players that do not share the same interests and feelings and that is what this topic is about. As far as I have understood.

Krision

I had the same impression in the beta, when accepted randomly quests. But, following the steps of NPC's I obtained good sequences of quests, fun and rewards.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

I will be going a different direction in my reply:

I feel the levelling is actually to fast, 3 days in and im already level 25 which I guess isn't bad but I also haven't been putting in 8 hour shifts like a lot of players.

I feel the difficulty is fine, remember this is elder scrolls and a kill should be earned and not facerolled over with just 2-3 hits.
I could go as far as ...... make it harder, when I kill some of the bosses in game I have that "old" sit back and breathe moment ..... who remembers those ?

The loot again should be earned and not handed to you in every chest, monster and crate. If I was able to keep dropping loot I "needed" where would the feeling of joy come from when I drop that last piece of the set I needed for the bonus ?

All in all this game and the so called grind/difficulty is find, but then again I am one of these people that buys a new game and sticks it straight on hard/hardcore modes.

SirNigelThornberry

I think different people have different definitions for fun. I have a lot of fun just exploring and finding all the quests I can and I've found that the quests and dialog themselves are rather entertaining. I don't especially get excited in games for new gear or levels because they're just...more numbers I guess? I don't know, to each their own. I'd say the game is fun but the average MMO player may not which might be an issue for the games future (I hope it's not).

Phantombadger

so many walls of text. so I skipped them all. "I dont have time to read"

to OP
So if you think ESO has done much in the way of adding features and mechanics that are new to MMO's you should step back and play some more mmos. this game is an MMO BUT why do all "MMO" tagged games have to subscribe to the same gameplay system? why does this feel like every other mmo and not TES. why is this like Every other RPG and not TES? Why couldnt this game be more unique? more TES?

Why cant you just run around a world with your group interacting with npcs and only encounter player in hub cities and on the PvP battlefield? Why cant you pick up and use any weapon at anytime or any item at any time? why is there cooldown on items? why cant you put spells in your hands and shoot fire or lightning? why are PvE enemies static level and not dynamic to the player/group? Why cant i use any item i craft and not be restricted to by item level? why isnt this game TES? and why is it so laggy to interact with things when most of that should be client side? why does this game feel like an attempt to appease wow players and not TES fans?

tallenn

So it's not just me.

I'm feeling a lot of the same feelings the OP is, and also considered cancelling my pre-order. I've decided not to, mostly because I'm pretty sure I can easily get what I paid for it and more on ebay. I still have a few days to decide whether or not to use the code, and I could sell the rest of the physical CE items without the code anyway, I'm pretty sure. So relax, I'm not talking about "selling my account".

I was even starting wonder if maybe I'm just not interested in MMOs anymore, and I'm still wondering that.

I'm still not sure what the cause is, but I'm definitely not feeling like it's fun. It's probably a combination of a lot of things that the game got wrong. There's a lot right with the game, and like the OP said, it's a good, quality game, but it's just not ringing my bell. I've also been in for several betas, and have enjoyed the time I've played, but there have always been things that were bothering me, that haven't been changed. I guess maybe I thought they'd feel less important as I got more into the game, but so far, they're still bothering me. I'm not going to list them out, because I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm not the only one who is having doubts about them.

You know how you really like a game, but there's a couple of things about it you wish were different? I experienced the same thing in GW2. Overall, I really loved the game, but there was just a couple of things that ticked me off. Then, a couple of months into the game they made a change that was yet another thing that ticked me off, and the whole thing just suddenly didn't seem fun anymore -it was is if that new thing just made me realize how much I was unhappy about the other things. I haven't played it since. I kind of have a feeling I'll experience the same kind of thing here, too.

Lamprey

I don't know if I agree about it being a reward issue. I'm also trying to give the game some time before I pass final judgment. I'm trying to re-train myself from what a "traditional" MMO is and, at first, it was hard. I don't have 50 skill to pick from at any time, there is no feedback about how much damage I'm going or not doing, nearly all skills available to every "class." Lot's of different things here to adjust to. I'm not saying that is bad, just different. In fact I do kind of like being able to get lots of different skills so you can chose how you want to play, like a healing night blade, for example.

That having been said, maybe it is about reward. I'm also having a hard time putting my finger on what seems to be missing. But, I think, for me, it's about a lack of a wow factor (not the game but sense of wonder). The visuals/colors are subdued, which is fine as I think it fits in with the previous TES game. Unfortunately, the spell/skill visual affects are bit anemic for me. And It doesn't seem like you get powerful, in the sense of calling down a rain of hell fire on your foes. Perhaps, I just haven't experienced that yet. Or perhaps, I'm too used to over the top particle and visual affects in other games..?

At any rate, I'm trying to enjoy it for the story and see if my perception changes over the next month.

Exarch

Different games reward in different ways, I find that the deep, slow nature of ESO is better than fun, it's immersive and engaging; playing is its own reward. What I like about the tough encounters is that with the flexible system I almost always feel like I have tactical options so that I can try something different if my first attempt doesn't work.

EvolvedFromRot

I didn't even read the paragraph and can tell you that you are wrong. To each His own sure, but when you say its not fun on the forums you're saying that to dedicated players as well as casuals who just got into the story.

skullyon

I agree 100%! This game is boring me to tears I'll be canceling my subscription at the end of the 30 day period.

Zershar_Vemod

OP,

If a "reward" to you is limited to the basic thought of a shiny new item, then maybe this isn't the game for you; gear should never be THE focus for playing an MMO (yes, it is a goal to get better gear to improve efficiency, but that's not what I'm addressing), it's the 'reward' of having fun which is created by doing whatever you want to do.

I explore / discover, craft, defeat bosses, etc. I gain my fun from that.

ESO has given me boatloads of fun and enjoyment; I honestly haven't enjoyed an MMO this much since SWG back in the day.

AstroCat

ESO is a great, super fun game for people who want a game like ESO. If you are looking for the instant reward, no attention span, grind fest, every other MMO clone ESO is not your game. There are so many other options for you out there, hello Wildstar, perhaps.

Thank goodness, at least for me, ESO is totally not one of those games. Those are the boring games for people who are looking for a game like ESO. ESO is an amazingly refreshing game for those of us who were totally losing interest in the current MMO treadmill games.

Zershar_Vemod

AstroCat wrote: »

ESO is a great, super fun game for people who want a game like ESO. If you are looking for the instant reward, no attention span, grind fest, every other MMO clone ESO is not your game. There are so many other options for you out there, hello Wildstar, perhaps.

Thank goodness, at least for me, ESO is totally not one of those games. Those are the boring games for people who are looking for a game like ESO.

Was about to add something like this to my post, but this covers the gist of it. ^

The only complaining (crying) I've seen about ESO tend to group up with,
A.) entitlement generation wanting everything for 'free,' and ESO is the spawn of the Devil for charging the standard $15/month
B.) the "give it to me now!" crowd,
B1.) the "This requires work!? F#%^ this game!" crowd,
C.) "Wait, there's a bug in this game, it sux!!!!!" crowd, and
D.) People who have no idea what an MMO is and want ESO to be a single player game / TES VI (which we've already been told will be worked on in a couple years).

If one doesn't like a game, just leave in peace is all I have to say.

basdisco

I think it's a fantastic game. I'm glad they don't show all quests on the map(unless you're nearby) and that you don't get rewarded stuff after every single quest that suits your class. In my opinion I like that they make you work for it, I was actually scared it would be a commercialized MMO -- which it is of course, it's hugely commercialized, but I mean that they would make it too accessible. I prefer to play with die hard Elder Scrolls fans instead of die hard MMO fans and I see Elder Scrolls fans being totally ecstatic and MMO fans doing nothing but complaining. Good.