It feels like ESO is Good, but not Fun?

JayP_uncensored

This might be a little ranty, definitely a wall of text, and I apologize, but my Amazon order for the physical Imperial Edition hasn't actually shipped yet, and I'm realizing I might cancel it. I kind of feel like venting before I do.

I really, really want to like Elder Scrolls Online, but damn it's hard.

I played in 4 or 5 of the beta weekends. After the first weekend I played in I was set on preordering the game because there were so many cool mechanics that I thought really stuck out. It wasn't polished, but it was months away from release and very much a beta, so I was fine with it. The second beta I played added a lot of polish and changed some of the mechanics I didn't like to make them quite a lot better, and shortly after they announced the collector's edition so I preordered it. The game was clearly going to be good, it's rare to have so many "new" (read: none are new, but melding them together like ESO does pretty much is) ideas for an MMO that are well executed like ESO has. The next couple of beta weekends I tried to play but had a lot of trouble because I was just so bored with it. I thought since I kept playing Nords and Dark Elves, which are both Ebonheart alliance, I was just bored of the starting zone.

Now, in Early Access, I'm playing in a different starting zone on a difference alliance, and it's still just not "fun." The mechanics are good, it's a great mishmash of the Elder Scrolls style of game with more traditional MMO components, but I just couldn't put my finger on what's so far off about the game and it's "fun" factor. I was playing Goat Simulator today (fantastic waste of $10, by the way), and something struck me about ESO. See, Goat Simulator has this really small zone to play around in, but I could spent 5-10 minutes just dicking around in the same area, then I'd discover some new dumb little hidden thing (playing Flappy Goat in the office, getting abducted by aliens, etc) and suddenly another half hour went by. Like most modern games, it feels targeted directly at your brain's reward center. ESO just doesn't do this.

Elder Scrolls Online isn't fun to me because, and I think this is intentional, they're not addressing the reward center of your brain. Any other MMO keeps players involved because of this general idea that every 15-30 minutes, maximum, the player is leveling up, getting a better item for armor or weapons, or anything new and better and good to keep you motivated. ESO does this through the first small island off the starting area (which was the actual starting area in beta) really well. Then, once you're in the first big zone, ESO rewards a player for exploring with a new quest. This quest will have about five stages, typically, and at the end you get a pretty small of XP. These five stages could take you anywhere from ten minutes to half an hour, and that's assuming things go right. There are still a handful of broken/bugged quests, which require logging out and back into the game to "fix." Also, there are a number of mini-bosses at the end of quests which are just poorly balanced. During beta, one boss took me ten attempts to beat on a melee class, but I steam rolled it in my first attempt on a ranged class, same beta weekend. This problem still exists in release, although to a smaller degree. When finishing a quest, with the small XP amount you get, you SOMETIMES get an item with it. Chances are it won't be worth anything to you though. I'm playing a tank DK, and this is just guessing, but it felt like only one in ten quest rewards were even usable to me, and of those only about half were actually used. When I played a destruction staff sorcerer in beta it felt the same for it. So, you get armor or weapons you don't want, and you have to do this cycle dozens of times for just a couple of levels. All of this seems to because Bethesda didn't want to do the traditional MMO thing of a quest hub. There is one area with one quest to do, you pick it up outside of the area. When you're done, run around until you find another area.

In respect to gear, ESO wants you to go and make armor and weapons. The crafting system is actually pretty neat, although confusing at first. That said, if you don't spent about 20 minutes between quests just out farming materials, and even deconstructing what you items you do loot or get from quests, you don't have enough resources to actually make a decent set of armor. That's also assuming you're ok with the lowest tier of armor for a level, because improving armor is ridiculously expensive.

Anyways, back to leveling. When I finished one quest area, it felt like I was directed to another, but often times this one would be a level or two above me. Not a big deal, just slowed me down. Since how felt the last few beta weekends, I went out and found some Skyshard maps so I could have as many skill points as possible to keep things as "maxed out" per level as I could. I was still getting slowed down in these areas a bit above my level, and it was still a matter of just walking around for too long trying to find more low level things to do just to stretch out that last bit of XP for another level.

I even spent about 5-6 hours in the PVP, which seemed awesome and fun, until I realized I wasn't leveling up. I was getting my 20 kill quest repeatedly, but since no one was attacking the things the bounty boards gave me, I wasn't actually getting the quests done and therein no XP, I guess. Tons of items, but again so many that weren't worth it to me.

I know there is a difference between "casual" and "hardcore" MMO's, and I typically prefer the hardcore side MMO's, but I HATE it when games make something "hard" by just making it annoying/super time consuming to actually get things done. Is this what's lacking from the ESO? The lack of reward? I just don't ever feel rewarded for the time I'm putting into the game.

Again, I'm sorry for the wall of text/rant, but I imagine this might be a common complaint and I wanted to voice it myself. At work, we're in our spring time lull, so I took a week paid vacation to play since I figured it was a good a time/reason as any. So, I plan on spending as much time as possible tomorrow trying to find the swing of things, but I'm just so disappointed that the carrot on the stick of this MMO is so far away.

Planktonify

I could write a wall of text as a reply but I wont, because I completely agree about the rewarding in this game. Playing with a friend which uses heavy armor and I medium, the quest rewards either favor him or me, simple as a 3 choice option would temporary fix this. Light, Medium, Heavy.

I assume as you've already that it all goes down to crafting your own items, which is fine however a lot of time needs to be dedicated into crafting an item that's slightly better then the gear you got at starter island..

I don't know I guess it's their way of "extending time before you hit end-game" it's a silly setup though. As you said, the game is great, but the rewarding system which you've been speaking about up above is.. lame?

Edit: And what's up with buying gear that's overpriced and have lower stats then the items you find from monsters?

Turkeysammich

I want to like it too, but having no controller support almost completely blows it. I'm injured atm and can't use the mouse for longer than 5 minutes, and any controller key mapper program just isn't fluid in the movement no matter what controller I use.

My biggest issue is, though, going into a dungeon and not having anything to do except go to the objective at the end because there are so many people in there that everything is already dead. I want to kill some enemies please. When I finally found one, everyone homed in on it like fat kids going towards a birthday cake, and it was literally dead in half a second, and after all that time trying to get an enemy, it gives me 1 measly coin.

Then there is crafting, It literally took me 2 hours to find a single iron ore node, and that is pretty much a game killer for me.

Laura

I love it. I think its hard to play with all the bugs but thats early access for you. I haven't had this much fun with a MMO in many many years. Skill points and everything else isn't enough reward? Maybe you guys are just tired of gaming. Judging an MMO before end game is about *** anyway. I say give it a chance dont cancel your order when you barely got a chance to play. Thats being a baby.

ryan.vennellb14_ESO

I have a friend playing on a controller. Should be a way to set it up.

If you look at the ground and walk around with intent, you can usually find iron ore nodes extremely often. They blend in, so once you learn what they look like and go looking for them with purpose...they're really fast to find.

Definitely needs a way to choose a quest reward.

BmcD73

I had this not fun feeling in Banished Cells last night. We had a group and figured for the first dungeon it shouldn't be that hard. We had 2x12, 1x13, 1x15. So not everyone was at 15 but the dungeon says 12-15. We were wiping on trash. We were pulling using LoS and had a ranged DPS or tank pull. Then the bosses. We wiped about 8 times on the wraith boss before we gave up on him. The one shot, un-interruptable, un-dogeable, un-LoSightable lifesteal attack killed our healer right away almost every time. We all left with GIANT repair bills and the drops off the bosses we did kill were pathetic. The XP was terrible too. So not my idea of a good time.

Maybe we just need to get used to the mechanics as they are so different than other MMOs. Other than that though, I really do love this game.

Sharee

Turkeysammich wrote: »

I want to like it too, but having no controller support almost completely blows it. I'm injured atm and can't use the mouse for longer than 5 minutes, and any controller key mapper program just isn't fluid in the movement no matter what controller I use.

My biggest issue is, though, going into a dungeon and not having anything to do except go to the objective at the end because there are so many people in there that everything is already dead. I want to kill some enemies please. When I finally found one, everyone homed in on it like fat kids going towards a birthday cake, and it was literally dead in half a second, and after all that time trying to get an enemy, it gives me 1 measly coin.

Then there is crafting, It literally took me 2 hours to find a single iron ore node, and that is pretty much a game killer for me.

When i finished coldharbor, i took the option to return to the original starting islands. Stros M'kai and Betnikh. I had no problems like you describe. The amount of other players around me was just right, and there were plenty of resources all around.

Your problem is that you are moving with the big wave. Stop, go back, smell the flowers. I started my character at the very first minute of 5 day early access, and i am still only level 7, on Betnikh, spending most of my play time enjoying the sights, picking resources, and doing the odd quest here and there if i happen to run into one.

astroff999_ESO

I am at level 25 now and the biggest disappointment for me has been the gear progression. I still think eq had it right back in the day. When you got something it actually lasted. Here I have done anchors, group dungeons, quest ect and when you go from one zone to the next the gear you got and I mean blue+ is immediately worthless. The first quest you get gives you a green that is 50% better than blue + that are only 1-2 levels lower. Why even bother having the dungeons and anchors if the rewards are worthless within an hour of playing. I wanted this to be about the journey like eq 1 was. I wanted the dungeons and group challenges to mean something. However, it doesn't because of how quickly things are replaced. Maybe it is just me but I think a level 15 purple should be higher quality than a level 16/17 green from a quest that starts the zone off.

Gohlar

The monsters in 4 man dungeons don't give exp.

What the ****.

Sharee

Gohlar wrote: »

The monsters in 4 man dungeons don't give exp.

What the ****.

You are probably too high level for them.

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

I sort of like the fact that this game isn't a "gear treadmill" Although the 3-choice quest loot system wouldn't be a bad thing. It can be really difficult to gear especially when you're using multiple armor types. I run 5 Medium and a cloth belt and hood, and what are the chances the cloth that drops will be a hood or belt? That kind of stinks. But I love the fact that leveling is a bit slow. I like to do the quests, read the books a little, get involved in the stories...it's fun for me. But to each their own!

ButteredSoul

I'm having a great time too.

To me the gear drops go like this:

1. Gear that I want to wear: wear it
2. Gear that I would wear but is less powerful than what I have AND is a craft I'm using: research it
3. All other non-white gear: sell or deconstruct for mats
4. White gear: sell

Zorak

Lots of fun here.

MomoDeviluke

im enjoying it. the quests are fun and engaging if you arent skipping the dialogue and facerolling through content. And as you progress through areas the random gear drops feel more rewarding and fun (especially when u sell or give the gear u dont need to your guildmates). professions are alright, i am kind of annoyed and kind of hit a wall with enchanting because i need Ta (circle shaped) runes but alas they are the hardest to find, i got a buttload of every other rune sitting in my bank. Cant make glyphs and lvl up enchanting without the circle shaped rune...and deconstructing glyphs gives next to no exp to the profession level.

apart from this little annoyance its pretty fun to play and keeps me entertained

Puppet

Turkeysammich wrote: »

I want to like it too, but having no controller support almost completely blows it. I'm injured atm and can't use the mouse for longer than 5 minutes, and any controller key mapper program just isn't fluid in the movement no matter what controller I use.

My biggest issue is, though, going into a dungeon and not having anything to do except go to the objective at the end because there are so many people in there that everything is already dead. I want to kill some enemies please. When I finally found one, everyone homed in on it like fat kids going towards a birthday cake, and it was literally dead in half a second, and after all that time trying to get an enemy, it gives me 1 measly coin.

Then there is crafting, It literally took me 2 hours to find a single iron ore node, and that is pretty much a game killer for me.

About the controller, if you want to use a controller while playing then get the console version when it comes out (I honestly didn't even know ESO was coming out for the next gen consoles until I looked it up right now). As for your 'biggest' issue with the game, its only that way because its just the early release. Its going to be that way when you have a ton of people all starting out at the same time. Especially when they're all around the same level as you. For the crafting and not being able to find nodes to mine or anything, there is a world skill that you can put a point into called "keen eye" or something like that and you will be able to spot the nodes a lot easier.

Alright I can already tell this is going to be a long post so I am sorry ahead of time to the readers:

As for what the original OP has posted, I strongly agree with some of the points and disagree (not so strongly) with some other ones. I too felt while leveling I was gaining XP incredibly slow. I feel like I have been grinding this game for the past 2 days and i'm only level 15. There is part of me that does like the fact that I can't get to level 15 in an hour or 2 though. I also agree that some of the quests seem way too hard, and then some seem way too easy. There are some quests that I had to come back to when I was at least 2 or 3 levels above the recommended level to finish. Then there were some that I was under leveled in and was able to finish easy as pie. I know that all MMO's have quests that are going to be much easier then others and what not but some of them just seemed too hard for the recommended level. I also agree that the reward at the end of a quest line was way underwhelming, in gold/XP AND items.

That being said, I think the PvP is stupidly fun. Something about being chased by a pack of 15-20 people and being able to look back and spear the leader through the chest with a light-javelin and then keep running just tickles me in all the right places. But the PvP as it is right now is incredibly zergy, and probably always will be, and is pretty unbalanced.

I am enjoying the game though, and I plan to play until end content before I judge whether I am going to keep subbing or if I think the game is worth my time.

TL;DR: Agree that the questlines don't reward you with enough XP/loot/gold. Also agree that it takes a long time to level, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but can be annoying. PvP is zergy, but satisfying at times.

Gohlar

Sharee wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

The monsters in 4 man dungeons don't give exp.

What the ****.

You are probably too high level for them.

All monsters give 3 exp per kill in 4 man dungeons. This is at the appropriate level. I'm only level 14, I'm not even too high for any of them. I started at level 12 and the exp was broken from the get go. You can check, you don't get squat from grouping up and defeating a dungeon. You will get some quest exp the 1st time through but the monsters themselves give virtually nothing (3 exp). Some are saying it's intentional and it was a change because some people power leveled. Obviously, this would be one of the worst solutions in mmo history if this is the case.

I hope it's a bug. It's a huge WTF moment if they actually did this on purpose.

Vodkaphile

Turkeysammich wrote: »

I want to like it too, but having no controller support almost completely blows it. I'm injured atm and can't use the mouse for longer than 5 minutes, and any controller key mapper program just isn't fluid in the movement no matter what controller I use.

My biggest issue is, though, going into a dungeon and not having anything to do except go to the objective at the end because there are so many people in there that everything is already dead. I want to kill some enemies please. When I finally found one, everyone homed in on it like fat kids going towards a birthday cake, and it was literally dead in half a second, and after all that time trying to get an enemy, it gives me 1 measly coin.

Then there is crafting, It literally took me 2 hours to find a single iron ore node, and that is pretty much a game killer for me.

Just from exploring and questing, I have crafted 400 iron bars. With all due respect, maybe actually take some time to look for them? This game wont hold your hand to a node like other MMO's, and you dont get default sparklies on nodes either. You have to at least pay attention in the slightest to find resources. This is not a bad thing. 2 hours to find a node is insane, and is way past the point of bad luck.

The rewards in the game feel good to me. They place a heavy emphasis on crafting, and I think when people get out of the mindset that's been ingrained through typical MMO fare of the last 10 years, they'll start to appreciate the DIY route to ESO and feel the same way as the majority of us playing right now. MMO's typical to today just hand out freebies and make you feel too powerful too quickly. ESO makes you earn it a bit and that makes the reward that much better.

Trouvo

BmcD73 wrote: »

I had this not fun feeling in Banished Cells last night. We had a group and figured for the first dungeon it shouldn't be that hard. We had 2x12, 1x13, 1x15. So not everyone was at 15 but the dungeon says 12-15. We were wiping on trash. We were pulling using LoS and had a ranged DPS or tank pull. Then the bosses. We wiped about 8 times on the wraith boss before we gave up on him. The one shot, un-interruptable, un-dogeable, un-LoSightable lifesteal attack killed our healer right away almost every time. We all left with GIANT repair bills and the drops off the bosses we did kill were pathetic. The XP was terrible too. So not my idea of a good time.

Maybe we just need to get used to the mechanics as they are so different than other MMOs. Other than that though, I really do love this game.

You can block it and mitigate the damage you recieve, another player behind the wraith can interrupt it when the red lines indicate he is channelling, a DK can use the pull to take aggro if he is channeling, and there are other abilities you can use to stop him too.

JayP_uncensored

I'm surprised this got such a varied and polite response so quickly! Thanks for that, everyone.

@Laura‌: Just to play a bit of devils advocate with you, here's a thought: I learned a while ago to treat games like books. There are so many of them out there, why trudge through one you don't like just to end it and decide you didn't like it? If I'm not liking the game, and I've already spent about 30-40 hours or more between betas and early access, why pay money for it just to spend more time not enjoying myself?

@comments on finding ore: I found plenty, and I imagine most of you were commenting towards those saying they couldn't find any. The problem I had was how much it costs to make leveled up gear, and the gear not being that great, and the then further cost of improving that gear to a green being so insanely high. I figure you're not supposed to be improving much gear you make until closer to end-game, but it's worthless to me without the upgrades.

@Bmcd73: I agree on the dungeons, especially on a tank. I understand that in the context of what ESO is trying to do and the story, you really shouldn't be out repeating the same dungeons, but this an MMO and people are going to do it, so it almost feels like punishment for doing the same dungeon again because you want a different drop.

@MomoDeviluke‌: I think I'm exactly the kind of player you're describing. I haven't read a single word of quest text. I've never gotten into the story of an MMO in the early game, it's usually the end game content where I start caring about it.

@Puppet‌: PVP was fun, I liked the zergs moving around the map and randomly clashing. I would have had a lot more fun with it if it gave me XP for actions on the field, like taking a farm or being part of a group that knocked down a fort's wall. Giving me XP for quests I'll never be able to do without spending HOURS in PVP and trying to get an entire zerg to do my whim? That's annoying.

Ultimately, considering what everyone said, I've cancelled my preorder. I'd rather put this $100 into my new car since I can't see myself playing enough of the game. Either they change the game to fit my likings, which will *** off those that like it's current state and probably be too late for me anyways, or they leave it as is and I grudge through a game for hours and hours until I might enjoy myself? Sounds like Stockholm syndrome now that I'm typing it. I really do want to like it more, and was kind of hoping someone would give me an idea for how to, I dunno, get over my hang ups, but pretty much everyone is agreeing with me or saying my complaints are why they like it. That's perfectly fine with me, by the way. I agree with @gimmethecreepsb14_ESO‌ on "to each their own." I understand some people appreciate this type of thing more, and it's clearly a great game for these players, but I pretty much need a carrot on a stick to keep playing MMO's like this. This game SHOULD be more fun for me, but it's just a grind, and not even in a "good way" like grindy MMO's.

I think the best way I could put my opinion on ESO is this: It's like the movie Gravity. Technically, it's a masterpiece. Many individual components are well crafted, amazing feats. However, they don't mesh well enough together, and the story's a bit hard to swallow, so it's falling short of the masterful work of it's components. I want to like it, as it's on a topic I enjoy, has people making it I like, and has so many great parts, but it's hard because it's just missing an X factor of fun for me.

So yeah, I hope everyone has fun with this. I'll go back to Goat Simulator and working on/driving around in my FR-S for now, I guess.

Sagatho

i cant agreed with all the OP say, i just enjoy the game even wih the bugged quest, to ve reallistic all the biggest games in the history has problems in the begining "GTA online" SimCity, Aion" even single player like SKYRIM start with problems, im playing sice early acces im still lvl 8, is just a matter of tastes

you want Hardcore? wait to Zenimax to release some Patches and another features like another MMOs do. WoW dont star with heroic modes at the beginin for example

pocketemu

I agree that the leveling can be tedious and unrewarding. however I also feel that its less tedious that killing 15 wolfs for a quest like on most other mmos and I simply dislike leveling. The game itself is still unfinished and content is planned out for years. The devs told me that they would be putting in and working on content based on player opinion as well and just because your idea isnt put into the game doesn't mean others arent, people should realize that they arent the only ones playing the game and there is alot of work still to be done. Some people are raging about a few things and forum design which yes they are issues but tbh this is the smoothest launch in an mmo i have ever seen and I've played alot of mmo's. This would literally be the best one ive played if it had battlegrounds or arenas and yes there's other issues but considering I have bought and stopped playing every mmo that has come out over the past 3 years within a week (if not one day) these are little issues.

Gedalya

Has anyone tried the new breakfast menu at Taco Bell? I want to try it, but I also don't want to be making a run for the border that early in the morning.

SpireofSouls

Gedalya wrote: »

Has anyone tried the new breakfast menu at Taco Bell? I want to try it, but I also don't want to be making a run for the border that early in the morning.

That sound good, guess i have time to go in and check, by the time i get there they dont serve breakfast then i would have to move on to beanburrios lol.

demendred

Don't apology for wanting to your option out. Not everyone will like a game, and hey, thats cool. You must also realize too that this game is in its infancy, so there will be some rough edges to smooth out. I like to think myself as a MMO player, my first one being a MUD, which was text based. This was you ---> #

I myself was a bit sketchy at first. I love playing in first person view, and notice sometimes you have to be in third person to see aoe's and what not. But, I worked my way around it, and now I own the game.

Oh, and for people who want to see a mini map for this game, there is an add-on for it, which I use, and love! It's called ZrMiniMap

Thats another thing I love about this game, you can have add ons. Some MMOs I played, they were taboo..

jodeereub17_ESO

Its not fun right now .

Ichthys

I think part of the problem is apparent from the two camps of replies so far. For anyone expecting immediate gratification, rapid advancement, it's not going to happen and thus the game is frustrating. For someone who wants to gradually develop things, take time to explore and (as one the cut screen tips mentions) just take off in some non-quest direction, it is quite fun. Maybe not always, but enough to hold interest.

I do agree however, that the economy of the game itself is pricy, e.g., 17K gold for a STARTER horse if you did not buy the upgraded game with the 1G horse. Gah! I think part of that is exactly what was mentioned previously, though, to slow you down so everything does not come to you immediately.

All that being said, this MMO is like EVERY other one in this respect, it will not be all things to all people and some will love it and stay, others will hate it and leave. When this game ceases to be fun for me, I'll go. Right now, it holds enough interest to keep me around.

fredarbonab14_ESO

I don't get why people feel compelled to post the reasons why they are going to do or not do something, i.e. play a game, any game. None of us are that significant or important. This post belonged in the 'Reason for Leaving ' box that goes directly to the developers, not cluttering the list of subjects of players sharing with each other that are and intent to play the game.

mutharex

You should play it like a TES game, then it's fun. Yesterday, after the reboot, I wanted to get Balreth's quest line done (as it had been bugged all day) and started playing quest after quest and ... I had no fun. I went back to just wander around, explore AND do quests along the way and suddenly it was fun again!

Gohlar

Ichthys wrote: »

I think part of the problem is apparent from the two camps of replies so far. For anyone expecting immediate gratification, rapid advancement, it's not going to happen and thus the game is frustrating. For someone who wants to gradually develop things, take time to explore and (as one the cut screen tips mentions) just take off in some non-quest direction, it is quite fun. Maybe not always, but enough to hold interest.

More like people who like to play in groups and challenge themselves will get bored and those who prefer solo questing will be happy.

Pretty shocked at how restrictive they make things, no exp for kills in group content is simply mind boggling. The questing is good and everything, but I play mmos to play with others and tackle challenges.

I think they need to look at the track record of previous solo quest oriented mmos, it isn't good.

chaosngn_ESO

I have to disagree. As frustrated I get when I die sometimes, I like a challenge. My reward center of my brain is being affected, because when I do something I finally feel like I accomplished something.

This is something that has been sorely lacking from other MMORPGs. I'm on the other side of the fence, if they make the game easy to appease the masses who are coming from particular games who are used to facerolling, I'm out of here.

liquid_wolf

I had this feeling on a few MMORPGs.

We have this developed idea and expectation of "reward". I did it with raiding, dungeons, events, and anything else that I could get loot on. Countless "trophies" of limited items, or special event items.

It came crashing down at some point... Probably something IRL.

I stopped playing MMORPGs, and even lost interest in single player games. I developed a kind of aversion to something that had "rewarded" me plenty before.

Now I'm in ESO, and I am finding that I really do like the game. Not because of the rewards, but because I'm enjoying the experience.

The armor and items get put on and tossed away when don't need them. I DESTROY gear and items by the hundreds.

"Oh look at this really rare and desirable weapon people want. BREAK IT DOWN."

"Hey buddy, I had a piece of armor you would like... BUT I TURNED IT INTO 14 USELESS DAGGERS."

Probably some reaction to years of rewards and items in other MMORPGS.

Completing an anchor, exploring the tops of mountains, and listening to the story-line has become my reward now.

I'm free from the items. FREE!!!

Now I can take my revenge on all those systems that turned me into a monster.