Necro is a forgotten class

Remiem

Urvoth wrote: »

The damage on it got completely gutted in the dot rework patch as well even though it's not a sticky dot and only went up 4s in duration compared to other dots going up 10s

It's not even a DoT, let alone a sticky DoT. It deals direct damage and is affected by Master-at-Arms and not Thaumaturge (nor the Rapid Rot passive) which makes its complete destruction during the DoT rework when it wasn't even a good skill before hilarious.

It's also the only skill that can become straight up worse in a lot of PvP situations when morphed, the base skill is single target damage but the Arcanist Skeleton morph is a true AoE and not single target damage with an AoE component like Haunting Curse for example, so its already laughable damage output is mitigated by Major and Minor Evasion.

Rasande_Robin

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I fear that ZOS will take only part of the necro feedback and give it major brutality/sorcery and call it a day. The bad part with that is great we have that buff but the offensive skills still suck and aren’t worth slotting so we gained nothing.

And they are going to put it into empowering grasp on 10 sec buff timer together with empower. So only 10 sec or it would be to strong!

Lags

i have no idea how zenimax can be so blind with this class. I swear its like they do this on purpose.

i11ionward

I myself rarely play trials PvE, and never necro in PvE at all, I want to ask players, are Empowering Grasp and Ghostly Embrace skils useful in PvE? At first sight we have 3 crowd control effects in one skill, I tried to use this skills in PvP but it was not effective, the way these effects are applied is very clumsy. Maybe this skill should be reworked? Applying the effect first area - stun, second area - immobilized, final area - snared, it would be more predictable at least in pvp.

francesinhalover

Currently for pvp major brutality and ESPECIALY major prophecy (dmg / crit) would be usefull. Even for pve , Yes potions exist, but they are too expensive for many players.

You could easily add Major prophecy to the skeletal archer/mage.

Ghost healer:
Could have a dmg morph for example. That lasts 30 secs + gives the player glowing weapons like the arcanist or dragon knight buffs do.
This buff could give the player something usefull for dps, and also major brutality if toggled on.

Or just another dot that also gives major brutality and lasts 20 secs

Avid boneyard could have a 20 sec duration that does less dmg but also gives major brutality or minor courage etc.

There's lots of potential tbh.

Estin

I just want the Scythe to have an execute bonus while also being the primary spammable. Skulls are just way too slow, and the class lacks any execute damage. Death Knell is too ineffective to mean anything and requires you to fill up your bar with Grave Lord skills to get any use out of it.

Urvoth

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

I just want the Scythe to have an execute bonus while also being the primary spammable. Skulls are just way too slow, and the class lacks any execute damage. Death Knell is too ineffective to mean anything and requires you to fill up your bar with Grave Lord skills to get any use out of it.

Most of the Grave Lord skills would need a complete rework to be generally useful in PvP. Stam scythe is in a pretty decent spot after its buff but I'd like mag scythe to get a flat execute bonus without the healing or damage being nerfed.

Lazarus_Rising

Well at least you can be a beautiful corpse soon which is all you end up to when you go in pvp as a necro.

IncultaWolf

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

Well at least you can be a beautiful corpse soon which is all you end up to when you go in pvp as a necro.

Laughing over here at that comment

Urvoth

Look how much attention the sorc/nb/dk threads get compared to necro-related threads. The lack of interest in necro from the player base just shows how far gone the class is because most people just stopped caring and swapped to something else.

LukosCreyden

i guess the skeleton crew that is working on ESO doesn't have the time to fix necro. Only explanation I can think of at this point. Either that, or the people in charge of balancing are massively ignorant to the actual state of the class.

KlauthWarthog

LukosCreyden wrote: »

i guess the skeleton crew that is working on ESO doesn't have the time to fix necro.

Not even a skeleton crew seems to care about necros around here anymore.

MashmalloMan

Anyone remember when they used to put out patches like Morrowind, completely revamping class morphs across the board? Some may have not agreed with the direction, but we could at least see there was EFFORT.

How about when they randomly added weapon ultimates to the game? No purchase or really much of a community outcry about it to begin with, yet they did it because it was right for the game.

What is the combat/balance team even doing now? It's a mockery of what could be 1 of the best MMO's ever. They're sitting on the holy grail of IPs, Elder Scrolls and patch after patch they do nothing to address the communities concerns. Especially after U35, I would think they'd 180 real quick, but every patch is "we want to let things cook".

😂 well my wallet hasn't spent the normal 200-300$ I normally spend on ESO within a year, I'm sure others are on the same boat. Maybe 1 day they'll take a hint, but hopefully it's not too late..I'm patient. I love the game. I just need a reason to play it. These class sets are so far terrible, again for whatever reason Sorc and Necro's are at the bottom of the barrel.

Never really played Necro extensively, but even I can agree a simple change like brutality on Skele Mage would be an obvious start, but a lot more work is necessary.

nadrokal

I'm probably wrong about this, but I'd rather see major brutality/sorcery, if it was going to be added, put on bitter harvest and its morphs. The reason being, the core functionality of bitter harvest at least does what it looks like it's supposed to, whereas skeleton pets are uncontrollable and to be frank bloody weak. Plus, it would sort of fit with a theme of taking power from the dead. Just a thought. Necros definitely need something, and not being pigeonholed into a potion choice would be one place to start.

Skoomah

Whatever ZOS decides to do, they should keep in mind what they want the Necro identity to be and how the class ends up compared to other classes.

Necro used to be the best bomber in the game but now Arcanists are. It’s the pull along with the colossus ultimate that makes it worth running. But you’re limited in set selection when you have to run a pull set to pair with your colossus. Necro doesn’t make the best healer or the best damage dealer. Necro isn’t the best class for support builds either.

So whatever changes are made, it should be done within the context of “compared to what”. I would personally like Necro to return to being the best bomber in the game.

ZOS should also focus on the in-between damage. Necro doesn’t pack any kind of punch with regular combos other than when the colossus is going. It takes too long in-between colossus combos. But don’t sacrifice colossus damage to make it even more frequently available.

MashmalloMan

nadrokal wrote: »

I'm probably wrong about this, but I'd rather see major brutality/sorcery, if it was going to be added, put on bitter harvest and its morphs. The reason being, the core functionality of bitter harvest at least does what it looks like it's supposed to, whereas skeleton pets are uncontrollable and to be frank bloody weak. Plus, it would sort of fit with a theme of taking power from the dead. Just a thought. Necros definitely need something, and not being pigeonholed into a potion choice would be one place to start.

Good point. I think people just desperately want the main pet to do something more than a glorified and crappy dot that isn't a dot.

How about this?

Skele Mage - Major Prophecy while active.
Harvest - Major Brutality while slotted on either bar.

I say while slotted because it's in theme with what they're doing for skills that don't do anything 90% of the time since they're conditional and situational skills like Cloak.

KlauthWarthog

Scythe not having a bonus to execute is the biggest flavor fail ever.

nadrokal

MashmalloMan wrote: »

nadrokal wrote: »

I'm probably wrong about this, but I'd rather see major brutality/sorcery, if it was going to be added, put on bitter harvest and its morphs. The reason being, the core functionality of bitter harvest at least does what it looks like it's supposed to, whereas skeleton pets are uncontrollable and to be frank bloody weak. Plus, it would sort of fit with a theme of taking power from the dead. Just a thought. Necros definitely need something, and not being pigeonholed into a potion choice would be one place to start.

Good point. I think people just desperately want the main pet to do something more than a glorified and crappy dot that isn't a dot.

How about this?

Skele Mage - Major Prophecy while active.
Harvest - Major Brutality while slotted on either bar.

I say while slotted because it's in theme with what they're doing for skills that don't do anything 90% of the time since they're conditional and situational skills like Cloak.

I can get on board with those changes. Sad that we'll never see it happen, necromancer is my favorite class.

MashmalloMan

nadrokal wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

nadrokal wrote: »

I'm probably wrong about this, but I'd rather see major brutality/sorcery, if it was going to be added, put on bitter harvest and its morphs. The reason being, the core functionality of bitter harvest at least does what it looks like it's supposed to, whereas skeleton pets are uncontrollable and to be frank bloody weak. Plus, it would sort of fit with a theme of taking power from the dead. Just a thought. Necros definitely need something, and not being pigeonholed into a potion choice would be one place to start.

Good point. I think people just desperately want the main pet to do something more than a glorified and crappy dot that isn't a dot.

How about this?

Skele Mage - Major Prophecy while active.
Harvest - Major Brutality while slotted on either bar.

I say while slotted because it's in theme with what they're doing for skills that don't do anything 90% of the time since they're conditional and situational skills like Cloak.

I can get on board with those changes. Sad that we'll never see it happen, necromancer is my favorite class.

Yeah pretty sad. At the rate they develop content, it could be 5 years. Hybridization while slightly controversial was suggested Year 1/2 of the game and threads constantly popped up about it. It was a continuous hot topic..

Same goes for stam DKs wanting to use Whip.

Same goes for harder overland/story content.

They only tackled hybridization year 7, it's year 9 now and they have yet to finish it. The only adjustment since was the +10 mag or stam regen on damage enchantments. Negligible and an afterthought, a total bandaid fix.

What is happening?

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

nadrokal wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

nadrokal wrote: »

I'm probably wrong about this, but I'd rather see major brutality/sorcery, if it was going to be added, put on bitter harvest and its morphs. The reason being, the core functionality of bitter harvest at least does what it looks like it's supposed to, whereas skeleton pets are uncontrollable and to be frank bloody weak. Plus, it would sort of fit with a theme of taking power from the dead. Just a thought. Necros definitely need something, and not being pigeonholed into a potion choice would be one place to start.

Good point. I think people just desperately want the main pet to do something more than a glorified and crappy dot that isn't a dot.

How about this?

Skele Mage - Major Prophecy while active.
Harvest - Major Brutality while slotted on either bar.

I say while slotted because it's in theme with what they're doing for skills that don't do anything 90% of the time since they're conditional and situational skills like Cloak.

I can get on board with those changes. Sad that we'll never see it happen, necromancer is my favorite class.

Yeah pretty sad. At the rate they develop content, it could be 5 years. Hybridization while slightly controversial was suggested Year 1/2 of the game and threads constantly popped up about it. It was a continuous hot topic..

Same goes for stam DKs wanting to use Whip.

Same goes for harder overland/story content.

They only tackled hybridization year 7, it's year 9 now and they have finished it. The only adjustment since was the +10 mag or stam regen on damage enchantments.

What is happening?

5 Years if you're lucky.

Petless (and magsorc in general) has been begging for a complete overhaul/rework since they deleted overloads 3rd bar back in 2018 (over 5 years ago now) and we still haven't gotten anything relevant outside of an occasional proc set that stamsorc can abuse until it inevitably gets nerfed into the ground.

I wish you the best of luck getting the needed changes for necro, but being realistic, I wouldn't be holding my breath for it.

ecru

I quit ESO for two reasons. The first reason is necro being terrible, and never getting any attention. Tether is still unreliable, blastbones is still inconsistent, skeletal arcanist is still hands down the worst ability in the game after the dot nerfs, etc. I really like my necro, but I don't like the fact that it sucks and actual viable builds have no class identity besides lol blastbones. The second reason was the destruction of actual ranged magicka builds in pve. Passives from dual wield and 2h just had to get spell damage for some reason (???), so now every "magicka" build is basically just stacking stam passives and using like two magicka abilities, and maybe a staff. Some don't even bother. It's so dumb. The class set is just another insult.

Like, DK is getting their major passive to work on both bars? Great, good for them. Necro doesn't even have the passive in the first place. I recently came back and rolled an Arcanist and the insane amount off buffs and debuffs this class gets for just existing makes Necro look like it was designed to punish anyone stupid enough to put any time into it.

MashmalloMan

ecru wrote: »

I quit ESO for two reasons. The first reason is necro being terrible, and never getting any attention. Tether is still unreliable, blastbones is still inconsistent, skeletal arcanist is still hands down the worst ability in the game after the dot nerfs, etc. I really like my necro, but I don't like the fact that it sucks and actual viable builds have no class identity besides lol blastbones. The second reason was the destruction of actual ranged magicka builds in pve. Passives from dual wield and 2h just had to get spell damage for some reason (???), so now every "magicka" build is basically just stacking stam passives and using like two magicka abilities, and maybe a staff. Some don't even bother. It's so dumb. The class set is just another insult.

Like, DK is getting their major passive to work on both bars? Great, good for them. Necro doesn't even have the passive in the first place. I recently came back and rolled an Arcanist and the insane amount off buffs and debuffs this class gets for just existing makes Necro look like it was designed to punish anyone stupid enough to put any time into it.

I agree with the rest, but just play ranged if you want to. This is a community issue, not a ZOS issue.

• Spell/Weapon damage and Spell/Weapon crit is a dumb concept we've just accepted because we've been used to it for so long. "Oooo green resource bar vs blue resource bar". The fact that a melee weapon gives "spell" damage or "spell" crit is temporary until they actually finish what they started in 2021 for hybridization. This happened with spell and physical resistance into "armor", this happened with spell and physical penetration into "offensive penetration", it's eventually just going to be something like "power" and "critical chance". They've already expressed intent to do this.
• Community loves to chase the meta when the meta sometimes results in very little benefit in actual practice. Staves are ranged weapons so they're much more useful in actual content where enemies don't just sit there for you to dps parse on. In most builds I've ever run, a ranged weapon vs a melee weapon is a difference of maybe 2%-5% dps. It's the difference between running a BIS race or 1 that isn't. It's not necessary unless you're a part of a leaderboard push where you can be melee often, which lets be real, most of us aren't.

ecru

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I quit ESO for two reasons. The first reason is necro being terrible, and never getting any attention. Tether is still unreliable, blastbones is still inconsistent, skeletal arcanist is still hands down the worst ability in the game after the dot nerfs, etc. I really like my necro, but I don't like the fact that it sucks and actual viable builds have no class identity besides lol blastbones. The second reason was the destruction of actual ranged magicka builds in pve. Passives from dual wield and 2h just had to get spell damage for some reason (???), so now every "magicka" build is basically just stacking stam passives and using like two magicka abilities, and maybe a staff. Some don't even bother. It's so dumb. The class set is just another insult.

Like, DK is getting their major passive to work on both bars? Great, good for them. Necro doesn't even have the passive in the first place. I recently came back and rolled an Arcanist and the insane amount off buffs and debuffs this class gets for just existing makes Necro look like it was designed to punish anyone stupid enough to put any time into it.

I agree with the rest, but just play ranged if you want to. This is a community issue, not a ZOS issue.

• Spell/Weapon damage and Spell/Weapon crit is a dumb concept we've just accepted because we've been used to it for so long. "Oooo green resource bar vs blue resource bar". The fact that a melee weapon gives "spell" damage or "spell" crit is temporary until they actually finish what they started in 2021 for hybridization. This happened with spell and physical resistance into "armor", this happened with spell and physical penetration into "offensive penetration", it's eventually just going to be something like "power" and "critical chance". They've already expressed intent to do this.
• Community loves to chase the meta when the meta sometimes results in very little benefit in actual practice. Staves are ranged weapons so they're much more useful in actual content where enemies don't just sit there for you to dps parse on. In most builds I've ever run, a ranged weapon vs a melee weapon is a difference of maybe 2%-5% dps. It's the difference between running a BIS race or 1 that isn't. It's not necessary unless you're a part of a leaderboard push where you can be melee often, which lets be real, most of us aren't.

No, it's a ZOS issue, not a community issue. ZOS has full control over which builds are optimal. Optimal or close to optimal builds should have some kind of class identity or identity in general, not be carbon copies of each other with class abilities as mostly filler. We've had very long periods where both full melee and full ranged builds that utilize most class abilities were both just as viable, depending on raid mechanics, and there's no reason it should be any different today. If nearly every person is striving for an identical build regardless of their class, as a game developer you made a pretty big mistake somewhere.

Twohothardware

ecru wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I quit ESO for two reasons. The first reason is necro being terrible, and never getting any attention. Tether is still unreliable, blastbones is still inconsistent, skeletal arcanist is still hands down the worst ability in the game after the dot nerfs, etc. I really like my necro, but I don't like the fact that it sucks and actual viable builds have no class identity besides lol blastbones. The second reason was the destruction of actual ranged magicka builds in pve. Passives from dual wield and 2h just had to get spell damage for some reason (???), so now every "magicka" build is basically just stacking stam passives and using like two magicka abilities, and maybe a staff. Some don't even bother. It's so dumb. The class set is just another insult.

Like, DK is getting their major passive to work on both bars? Great, good for them. Necro doesn't even have the passive in the first place. I recently came back and rolled an Arcanist and the insane amount off buffs and debuffs this class gets for just existing makes Necro look like it was designed to punish anyone stupid enough to put any time into it.

I agree with the rest, but just play ranged if you want to. This is a community issue, not a ZOS issue.

• Spell/Weapon damage and Spell/Weapon crit is a dumb concept we've just accepted because we've been used to it for so long. "Oooo green resource bar vs blue resource bar". The fact that a melee weapon gives "spell" damage or "spell" crit is temporary until they actually finish what they started in 2021 for hybridization. This happened with spell and physical resistance into "armor", this happened with spell and physical penetration into "offensive penetration", it's eventually just going to be something like "power" and "critical chance". They've already expressed intent to do this.
• Community loves to chase the meta when the meta sometimes results in very little benefit in actual practice. Staves are ranged weapons so they're much more useful in actual content where enemies don't just sit there for you to dps parse on. In most builds I've ever run, a ranged weapon vs a melee weapon is a difference of maybe 2%-5% dps. It's the difference between running a BIS race or 1 that isn't. It's not necessary unless you're a part of a leaderboard push where you can be melee often, which lets be real, most of us aren't.

No, it's a ZOS issue, not a community issue. ZOS has full control over which builds are optimal. Optimal or close to optimal builds should have some kind of class identity or identity in general, not be carbon copies of each other with class abilities as mostly filler. We've had very long periods where both full melee and full ranged builds that utilize most class abilities were both just as viable, depending on raid mechanics, and there's no reason it should be any different today. If nearly every person is striving for an identical build regardless of their class, as a game developer you made a pretty big mistake somewhere.

I think the hybridization of sets, classes and races while great in theory resulted in there just being one meta set and race that is the best choice for every class regardless if you're stamina or magicka focused.

Magicka classes in particular have lost their identity in the game with melee daggers and medium armor being the meta.

Turtle_Bot

Twohothardware wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I quit ESO for two reasons. The first reason is necro being terrible, and never getting any attention. Tether is still unreliable, blastbones is still inconsistent, skeletal arcanist is still hands down the worst ability in the game after the dot nerfs, etc. I really like my necro, but I don't like the fact that it sucks and actual viable builds have no class identity besides lol blastbones. The second reason was the destruction of actual ranged magicka builds in pve. Passives from dual wield and 2h just had to get spell damage for some reason (???), so now every "magicka" build is basically just stacking stam passives and using like two magicka abilities, and maybe a staff. Some don't even bother. It's so dumb. The class set is just another insult.

Like, DK is getting their major passive to work on both bars? Great, good for them. Necro doesn't even have the passive in the first place. I recently came back and rolled an Arcanist and the insane amount off buffs and debuffs this class gets for just existing makes Necro look like it was designed to punish anyone stupid enough to put any time into it.

I agree with the rest, but just play ranged if you want to. This is a community issue, not a ZOS issue.

• Spell/Weapon damage and Spell/Weapon crit is a dumb concept we've just accepted because we've been used to it for so long. "Oooo green resource bar vs blue resource bar". The fact that a melee weapon gives "spell" damage or "spell" crit is temporary until they actually finish what they started in 2021 for hybridization. This happened with spell and physical resistance into "armor", this happened with spell and physical penetration into "offensive penetration", it's eventually just going to be something like "power" and "critical chance". They've already expressed intent to do this.
• Community loves to chase the meta when the meta sometimes results in very little benefit in actual practice. Staves are ranged weapons so they're much more useful in actual content where enemies don't just sit there for you to dps parse on. In most builds I've ever run, a ranged weapon vs a melee weapon is a difference of maybe 2%-5% dps. It's the difference between running a BIS race or 1 that isn't. It's not necessary unless you're a part of a leaderboard push where you can be melee often, which lets be real, most of us aren't.

No, it's a ZOS issue, not a community issue. ZOS has full control over which builds are optimal. Optimal or close to optimal builds should have some kind of class identity or identity in general, not be carbon copies of each other with class abilities as mostly filler. We've had very long periods where both full melee and full ranged builds that utilize most class abilities were both just as viable, depending on raid mechanics, and there's no reason it should be any different today. If nearly every person is striving for an identical build regardless of their class, as a game developer you made a pretty big mistake somewhere.

I think the hybridization of sets, classes and races while great in theory resulted in there just being one meta set and race that is the best choice for every class regardless if you're stamina or magicka focused.

Magicka classes in particular have lost their identity in the game with melee daggers and medium armor being the meta.

Especially now that bows are on par (or better) than staves for ranged options. There's no reason to run magicka based weapons at all now outside of specifically for arena weapon bonus effects such as MA wall of elements.

boi_anachronism_

francesinhalover wrote: »

Currently for pvp major brutality and ESPECIALY major prophecy (dmg / crit) would be usefull. Even for pve , Yes potions exist, but they are too expensive for many players.

You could easily add Major prophecy to the skeletal archer/mage.

Ghost healer:
Could have a dmg morph for example. That lasts 30 secs + gives the player glowing weapons like the arcanist or dragon knight buffs do.
This buff could give the player something usefull for dps, and also major brutality if toggled on.

Or just another dot that also gives major brutality and lasts 20 secs

Avid boneyard could have a 20 sec duration that does less dmg but also gives major brutality or minor courage etc.

There's lots of potential tbh.

Brutality and prophecy are great in a tool kit. Opens up use of things like heroism pots.

OtarTheMad

You know what would be unique since we are all tunnel visioned on brutality and sorcery buffs like that’s going to make necro offensive abilities worth slotting… how about we get Minor Brutality and Sorcery since we already have access to Major versions of those in about 900 different ways.

Don’t get it twisted though, they add any of those and necro is still the worst class by far and offensive abilities are still buggy and unslottable. At least we’d have a buff that is pretty hard to get.