Ranged Magicka Nightblade....underwhelming? (MageBlade)

Rohamad_Ali

Give Magblade more love ZoS.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

The health bar WILL definitely move if your in more medium/light armor. Just because you can get a burst heal to burst through the damage. Doesn't make it a brawler. Your kind of on the right track, but not really. Your just throwing most general builds under *Brawler* which is not the case. The actual brawlers builds have always been heavy armor builds with all damage builds. You need like 33k Resistances and a lot of damage reduction. While being able to still hit really hard. 9 times out of 10 a true brawler is also using Sword and Board.

We did steer off topic though, so that being said, I do still believe that rangeblade is bad. It just needs some minor adjustments to make it rewarding to play.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

The health bar WILL definitely move if your in more medium/light armor. Just because you can get a burst heal to burst through the damage. Doesn't make it a brawler. Your kind of on the right track, but not really. Your just throwing most general builds under *Brawler* which is not the case. The actual brawlers builds have always been heavy armor builds with all damage builds. You need like 33k Resistances and a lot of damage reduction. While being able to still hit really hard. 9 times out of 10 a true brawler is also using Sword and Board.

We did steer off topic though, so that being said, I do still believe that rangeblade is bad. It just needs some minor adjustments to make it rewarding to play.

I forgot to say that I play on console so due to lag and other things I feel that the health bars seem to stand still more when multiple heals are in effect. May not be the same on PC or other platforms. On console if you have multiple hots going and a burst heal then even when you take a hit the health bar goes back up so fast that you might miss the move or it might seem less like a move. But at this point we really are just talking about labels.


I'm curious to see what the numbers look like using the new sets.

Regarding rewarding, are you wanting it to be on DK or melee NB level or on par with the rest of the classes?

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

The health bar WILL definitely move if your in more medium/light armor. Just because you can get a burst heal to burst through the damage. Doesn't make it a brawler. Your kind of on the right track, but not really. Your just throwing most general builds under *Brawler* which is not the case. The actual brawlers builds have always been heavy armor builds with all damage builds. You need like 33k Resistances and a lot of damage reduction. While being able to still hit really hard. 9 times out of 10 a true brawler is also using Sword and Board.

We did steer off topic though, so that being said, I do still believe that rangeblade is bad. It just needs some minor adjustments to make it rewarding to play.

I forgot to say that I play on console so due to lag and other things I feel that the health bars seem to stand still more when multiple heals are in effect. May not be the same on PC or other platforms. On console if you have multiple hots going and a burst heal then even when you take a hit the health bar goes back up so fast that you might miss the move or it might seem less like a move. But at this point we really are just talking about labels.


I'm curious to see what the numbers look like using the new sets.

Regarding rewarding, are you wanting it to be on DK or melee NB level or on par with the rest of the classes?

Well they just gutted the new set for my playstyle…so back to the drawing board, and getting on my knees and begging for a change like the rest of the community.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

The health bar WILL definitely move if your in more medium/light armor. Just because you can get a burst heal to burst through the damage. Doesn't make it a brawler. Your kind of on the right track, but not really. Your just throwing most general builds under *Brawler* which is not the case. The actual brawlers builds have always been heavy armor builds with all damage builds. You need like 33k Resistances and a lot of damage reduction. While being able to still hit really hard. 9 times out of 10 a true brawler is also using Sword and Board.

We did steer off topic though, so that being said, I do still believe that rangeblade is bad. It just needs some minor adjustments to make it rewarding to play.

I forgot to say that I play on console so due to lag and other things I feel that the health bars seem to stand still more when multiple heals are in effect. May not be the same on PC or other platforms. On console if you have multiple hots going and a burst heal then even when you take a hit the health bar goes back up so fast that you might miss the move or it might seem less like a move. But at this point we really are just talking about labels.


I'm curious to see what the numbers look like using the new sets.

Regarding rewarding, are you wanting it to be on DK or melee NB level or on par with the rest of the classes?

Well they just gutted the new set for my playstyle…so back to the drawing board, and getting on my knees and begging for a change like the rest of the community.

I think the set took a hit in any sort of interesting gameplay but I'm reserving judgement till it hits live to see what people can make happen with it.

I honestly don't really like that it's soooooo bland though. Basically conditional increased recovery, damage, and healing to a specific class/playstyle. The ult minigame was ok though obviously borrowed from sorc.

I've always said that I think nb needs a balance pass before or as part of looking at range but in this case we have actual dev time that resulted in a basic set but which could have been used on a balance pass.

Though looking at what the set turned out as I'm not really sure if it saw much dev time anyway.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

You literally have to be tanky to be a brawler...Dks are brawlers by design. Nightblade is not.

So "tanky" is just perception of how damage is dealt with.

A heavy armor build that takes less damage still has to heal, just for less.

A medium armor build that takes the same damage just has to heal for more.

In both cases you're effectively going to see a health bar that won't be moving much.

So they both have to react the same as in healing themselves just for different amounts but they can both stand in one place and hit hard.

A brawler is defined by the ability to stay in a fight where they know they will get hit, take the hits, and deliver equal or harder hits.


That being said you can of course choose to define tanky as only a character with x level of resistances and armor weights but that's really just going to limit the available build options.

I personally prefer to look at the net effect more than how a build gets there.

The health bar WILL definitely move if your in more medium/light armor. Just because you can get a burst heal to burst through the damage. Doesn't make it a brawler. Your kind of on the right track, but not really. Your just throwing most general builds under *Brawler* which is not the case. The actual brawlers builds have always been heavy armor builds with all damage builds. You need like 33k Resistances and a lot of damage reduction. While being able to still hit really hard. 9 times out of 10 a true brawler is also using Sword and Board.

We did steer off topic though, so that being said, I do still believe that rangeblade is bad. It just needs some minor adjustments to make it rewarding to play.

I forgot to say that I play on console so due to lag and other things I feel that the health bars seem to stand still more when multiple heals are in effect. May not be the same on PC or other platforms. On console if you have multiple hots going and a burst heal then even when you take a hit the health bar goes back up so fast that you might miss the move or it might seem less like a move. But at this point we really are just talking about labels.


I'm curious to see what the numbers look like using the new sets.

Regarding rewarding, are you wanting it to be on DK or melee NB level or on par with the rest of the classes?

Well they just gutted the new set for my playstyle…so back to the drawing board, and getting on my knees and begging for a change like the rest of the community.

I think the set took a hit in any sort of interesting gameplay but I'm reserving judgement till it hits live to see what people can make happen with it.

I honestly don't really like that it's soooooo bland though. Basically conditional increased recovery, damage, and healing to a specific class/playstyle. The ult minigame was ok though obviously borrowed from sorc.

I've always said that I think nb needs a balance pass before or as part of looking at range but in this case we have actual dev time that resulted in a basic set but which could have been used on a balance pass.

Though looking at what the set turned out as I'm not really sure if it saw much dev time anyway.

I definitely already have a strong build with it, it just took a big hit, compared to what it originally did. I made adjustments, and its still fine I suppose. It's going to bring my rangeblade from bad to Mid atleast.

FoJul

Dekrypted wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Well they just gutted the new set for my playstyle…so back to the drawing board, and getting on my knees and begging for a change like the rest of the community.

I'd like to quote myself from earlier in this thread,

Dekrypted wrote: »

IMO while the new class set is a massive band-aid, it goes to show the lack of ambition and willingness to touch the skills that the development team has had over the past year or so. Just more sets and more bad examples that dont reflect the reality of what happens when playing this game.

and update part of with some additional feedback given its new adjustment.

The most recent adjustment having the set now to read as:

Soulcleaver:
This set’s bonuses to damage and healing done with Siphoning abilities no longer scale based on your Ultimate, and instead offer a flat 18% increase in damage and healing done and Cost Reduction for Siphoning abilities.
This set no longer requires you to actively have 20 Ultimate to gain its effects (including the Ultimate drain). As such, this set now also applies to the Ultimate abilities from the Siphoning skill line

And the dev comment:
Originally during testing, this set went through many iterations to try and avoid behavior where the set could enable Nightblades to become incredibly powerful in areas they have not been; many restrictions and regulations were put in place to attempt to quell issues. As the set went to the PTS and we began receiving feedback, much of this feedback was pointed at how overly complicated the set seemed to be. As such, we’ve simplified the set immensely while also easing back on its ceiling potential, correcting both some of the insane power the class obtained when not using their Ultimate, while also allowing the set to fit into the normal play patterns Nightblade is traditionally played – where it can utilize Ultimates more rapidly than most other classes due to its passives and costs. It’s our hope that the set still remains impactful at enabling Nightblades to tap into the Siphoning power fantasies more effectively, with an outcome that is simpler to use and understand.

In my opinion the current iteration is still not something to ignore of it goes live for the ever underwhelming ranged magblade should it choose to use Swallow Soul as a primary spammable given that it will be receiving a flat 18% damage increase. Should a flat increase or rework be applied to the ability? Yes. I for one can make this work. The amount of healing I was getting prior to this adjustment was honestly insane and I'm happy that it's been reigned in a bit.

Hopefully the teams working on abilities can get more time in the sun instead of attempting to balance the game with sets. It's just not going to cut it.

Yeah, the healing was overtuned a tad bit...but the damage wasn't.

Drako_Ei

Ah I see your problem.

You are using the wrong class. By design, nightblades are not allowed to play anymore?

Didn't you hear? You should be playing arcanist now, so please pay.

hypnoticbeast

@FoJul! I agree and have had the same issues you and any other Ranged Magblade out there. I struggled and struggled to get the same numbers I did before Minor Sorcery was given to the Sorc. No biggie I get it. They are the "Mages". What they devs DID NOT POINT OUT is the crit chance on a bow is the same as it is for Minor Sorcery and is set as a "general" crit chance buff. Meaning that it will buff your Spell Crit chance just by equipping it. AND yes, a bow will proc Minor Savagery as well. (Physical Weapon) The only "caveat" to speak of is the lack of sustain with a class that does not get the most out of a staff but whom most deadly skills are magic. Hence why they are having so much trouble with the new sustain "fix". I did make a build that broke the curse on this issue. I posted it on ESO-HUB a while back and I am not the best at weaving. Please fill free to try it on and see what you all can do with it. This build is meant for PVE. I do not know if I am aloud to post the link to the build here or if I should just type out the set up here. The build is under my name on the "HUB". Check it out and let's all see what it can do in the hands of a pro.