Sorc pets 1 bar

ZhuJiuyin

This is the DPS ranking of VSE HM. Hide names and IDs for privacy. It is not difficult to see that DK and Arcanist can obtain more DPS in actual combat.



This is the Sorc with the highest DPS among current VSE HM, and it is a stam Sorc, which does not even reach 100K.


Therefore, sorc still needs more "AOE" damage, otherwise sorc's DPS in PVE will still lag behind most classes
Of course, it would be better if there is a "no pet build", sorc needs to get rid of pets, and buff Dark Magic and Storm Calling skill lines

boi_anachronism_

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

This is the DPS ranking of VSE HM. Hide names and IDs for privacy. It is not difficult to see that DK and Arcanist can obtain more DPS in actual combat.



This is the Sorc with the highest DPS among current VSE HM, and it is a stam Sorc, which does not even reach 100K.


Therefore, sorc still needs more "AOE" damage, otherwise sorc's DPS in PVE will still lag behind most classes
Of course, it would be better if there is a "no pet build", sorc needs to get rid of pets, and buff Dark Magic and Storm Calling skill lines

Literally everything is behind arc and dk, everything has been behind dk for i dont even remember how many patches at this point. Thats hardly a strong argument when other classes lag behind or are completely left out of comps where sorc is not. Arc is the very first thing to give dk a run for its money content dps wise, however they cant run support dps sets which is why full dk comps existed. The ultimate point here is i DON'T want to make sorcs even more dependent on pet builds and completely pigeon hole them. Id much rather see other skill lines like storm caller get significant buffs and something like sorcerery and/or prophecy as double bar skill iadded into its kit instead of making them exclusively tied to pets which this would. I want to see build variations for the class that hits good numbers. Do you not? Would you rather keep them completely dependent on this again? Prey is a big part of what makes pets viable and it is not nearly as useful in content as it actually has to fall off to get good damage.

ZhuJiuyin

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

I want to see build variations for the class that hits good numbers. Do you not? Would you rather keep them completely dependent on this again? Prey is a big part of what makes pets viable and it is not nearly as useful in content as it actually has to fall off to get good damage.

I said it before, Sorc needs to get out of the shadow of pet.
Sorc does need "no pet build" and needs to buff other skill lines to get a better source of damage.
I believe our appeal is the same, isn't it?

gariondavey

From a pvp perspective, 1 bar for pets would be an incredible QoL change

ZhuJiuyin

gariondavey wrote: »

From a pvp perspective, 1 bar for pets would be an incredible QoL change

If PVE no pet & PVP one pet(and 1 bar pet), I think this would be really exciting.
Every time you die in PVE, you have to re-summon your pet, which is a serious waste of DPS. There are pets in PVP, and pets have the opportunity to absorb some damage for their owners.

boi_anachronism_

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

I want to see build variations for the class that hits good numbers. Do you not? Would you rather keep them completely dependent on this again? Prey is a big part of what makes pets viable and it is not nearly as useful in content as it actually has to fall off to get good damage.

I said it before, Sorc needs to get out of the shadow of pet.
Sorc does need "no pet build" and needs to buff other skill lines to get a better source of damage.
I believe our appeal is the same, isn't it?

I dont believe so. The ability to have them as one bar would make it as a must for all builds as it provides significant damage with the ability to run other skills to boot. It would be mandatory to run for all pve builds because of that. What could you replace it with in this situation that would get similar damage? There really isnt anything as it stands. There would have to be significant buffs to several other skills to make it a choice rather then a necessity.
Its just another pet buff That would make them even more important. Im not interested in being forced to run pets forever. Skills that were powerful enough to take 2 bars now only take up space on one. Why would anyone not add to that damage and run four less powerful skills. If that were the case it would be happening now but it is the bis even with 4 spots taken with 2 it would become exponentially more important.

Duke_Falcon

Make a new Sorc Specific Draugrkin Set for w/550 increased damage done and 10% increased healing taken, since Mag Sorcs can't heal for crap anyway.

Tyrant_Tim

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You can toss the added heals of the bird, or the pulse of the gremlin from a second cast, and just have them periodically do it, similar to either Shadowrend, Maw of the Infernal, or even the Warden bear.

That would be awful for the matriarch. Its whole purpose is as sorc's on-demand burst heal. Turning it into some kind of slow ticking HoT would make sorc healers pretty much nonviable in any group content.

There are countless other Sorc abilities people have been begging for an update to… and one could easily become a replacement burst heal that is more reliable than a pet that can die.

Last I checked, people aren’t really using Rune Prison and a change to it might be better for the overall life of the class.

Tyrant_Tim

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

The stam sorc is already the highest damage class in the game, bar none breaking 140k, something no other class gets close to. Opening those two spots for more damage skills? You cant be serious.

Opening up the two slots to other abilities could be paired with a nerf to Daedric Prey or lowering the damage of the pets slightly. Think big picture.

Having more slot freedom would make the class more enjoyable to play.

Arizona_Steve

I'd love anything that would get rid of the hordes of flapping twilights in every city.

Tannus15

Reduce prey damage buff to 20%
Make pets 1 skill slot
Reduce tormentor damage to equal matriarch and change the activation to increase tormentor damage by 150% or something, no health gate.
Remove 8% stat and add major proph and sav to bound armour and morphs
Reduce time for 2nd hit of haunting curse from 8s to 5s
Increase single target damage of endless fury and reduce execute explosion damage to keep it even with mages wrath single target. Remove sustain benefit.
Add increase damage taken from shock to lightning splash
Add custom controls for ‘attack target’ and ‘stop attacking’

MashmalloMan

There is so many ways they could rebalance pets to 1 bar, but keep them as permanent pets to separate them from what Necro is doing. Originally, the design for Necro pets being temporary was to fit the idea that they brought back their version of pets from the dead so they're imperfect/temporary. Tbh I quite like that idea, the biggest reason Necro feels a bit off in comparison to other RPGs is because there just isn't enough summons imo.

Off topic, but I'd be happy if they had more ways to summon blastbones like a new passive or changing the spammable 3rd proc bonus to summoning a blastbones instead of AOE/extra damage. Necro's are fun in other RPGs when their summoning acts closer to a swarm rather than a companion like Sorc/Warden.

I'd add that they should do the same for Warden's bear to 1 bar. Warden's are tired of being forced to lose their ultimate diversity and DPS potential in anything outside specifics like trials/arenas/dungeons. It's similar to how Sorc is crutching hard on Daedric prey and pets, yet you never see Wardens/Sorc's using those builds in competitive pvp where pets are killable, AI is dumb, and players are smart enough to deal with them.

Simple balancing fix.. they currently use 2 skill slots, so their passive power is increased to make up for that. They do this by making the pets deal passive damage that is as strong as a dot, except you don't need to cast it. The fact that you don't need to cast it saves Sorc's GCDs they can spend elsewhere like a spammable.

Tormentor specifically is effectively a 10% DPS increase for doing nothing. The activation is forgettable, you only ever activate before a fight starts because saving that GCD for something else mid fight provides more DPS.

Decrease Tormentor and Volatile Familiar's passive damage a lot, make the activations 85% of the abilities power budget. Completely redesign Tormentor's activation for an AOE damage effect to boost Sorc cleave a bit.

For Clanfear and Matriarch, the 2 most poorly designed skills in the game, remove their passive damage entirely for all I care, that isn't why these 2 skills are used. 1. Their passive DPS is already low. 2. Healers and Tanks already have lower DPS scaling, so the passive power is even lower than low.

ZOS knows this however, it's why despite dealing passive damage, the activations are more powerful in comparison to other class % heals or burst heals.

Matriarch heals itself and 2 nearby targets. Every other class burst heal is 1 target + an effect. Matriarch is insanely powerful. If it moved from 2 bars to 1, remove the 3 targets for 1, then give it a new effect in the budget of other classes. NB gets minor mending+higher tooltip or lower cost, Templar gets mag return or 1/3 2nd target heal, Necro gets Resistance or 100% 2nd target heal at the cost of a corpse...

The guidelines are already there to readjust Matriarch to match other skills. Maybe instead of healing itself and +1 target, heal all pets/companions for 50% of the initial heal, this way the 1 heal is never wasted on a pet. I'm not saying it has to be this, but it's easy to brainstorm.

Clanfear could have the value of 35% reduced(with bonuses and crit, this sometimes heals your entire health bar). It could be changed to half burst + half heal over time. Maybe it scales based on missing health. Maybe it provides a minor buff instead. Many options available to make this not op for 1 bar.

Finally, remove targeting of Sorc pets. They're annoying to fight against because they block hits. They're annoying to fight with because they die. If their power budget was rebalanced from a 2 bar skill to 1 bar, I see no reason why they should be targetable or killable.

I wish our burst heal for healers and tanks was never tied to these stupid things to begin with, but that's the cards we were dealt.

MashmalloMan

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

The stam sorc is already the highest damage class in the game, bar none breaking 140k, something no other class gets close to. Opening those two spots for more damage skills? You cant be serious.

Opening up the two slots to other abilities could be paired with a nerf to Daedric Prey or lowering the damage of the pets slightly. Think big picture.

Having more slot freedom would make the class more enjoyable to play.

Agreed. Not sure why people would assume Sorc mains asking for 1 bar pets wouldn't come hand in hand with a heavy nerf to them to balance it properly. We're not dumb.

Also to the original comment, Sorc and NB are currently single target heavy, it makes perfect sense they would deal more dummy DPS than classes that have innately high AOE DPS. In the hierarchy of the 4 original classes, the game was designed around Templar being the best healer, DK being the best tank, Sorc being the best ranged DPS and NB being the best melee DPS, both focussing on high priority targets. That's changed over time with the play as you want mantra, but the bone works are still present because the core skills remain.

If every class was compared 1:1 for the dummy, then we better start homogenizing the game to offer them more AOE. Arcanist is almost entirely AOE and beam pierces up to 22m away.

It's okay for the classes to be different. Any other MMO doesn't rely on purely DPS ceilings, but a combination of what those classes bring to the table for AOE, single target, utility, etc. ESO does a pretty bad job at this and the community is to blame for focussing too much on dummy potential.

I would happily sacrifice 10k DPS to get 70k more AOE DPS. Much more useful for 99% of content.

Soarora

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

The stam sorc is already the highest damage class in the game, bar none breaking 140k, something no other class gets close to. Opening those two spots for more damage skills? You cant be serious.

Opening up the two slots to other abilities could be paired with a nerf to Daedric Prey or lowering the damage of the pets slightly. Think big picture.

Having more slot freedom would make the class more enjoyable to play.

Agreed. Not sure why people would assume Sorc mains asking for 1 bar pets wouldn't come hand in hand with a heavy nerf to them to balance it properly. We're not dumb.

Yep, there's just never enough nerfs to sorc to please those who are opposed to the class being made viable outside of pets (for PvE) or procs (for PvP) or they simply get ignored...

Also to the original comment, Sorc and NB are currently single target heavy, it makes perfect sense they would deal more dummy DPS than classes that have innately high AOE DPS. In the hierarchy of the 4 original classes, the game was designed around Templar being the best healer, DK being the best tank, Sorc being the best ranged DPS and NB being the best melee DPS, both focussing on high priority targets. That's changed over time with the play as you want mantra, but the bone works are still present because the core skills remain.

If every class was compared 1:1 for the dummy, then we better start homogenizing the game to offer them more AOE. Arcanist is almost entirely AOE and beam pierces up to 22m away.

It's okay for the classes to be different. Any other MMO doesn't rely on purely DPS ceilings, but a combination of what those classes bring to the table for AOE, single target, utility, etc. ESO does a pretty bad job at this and the community is to blame for focussing too much on dummy potential.

So much this, also, I am yet to see a (reputable) video of these mythical 140k+ parses from a sorc (I've seen a fair number of 133k-135k parses), but if sorc is supposedly so much further ahead of the other classes in peak potential dps like people claim they are using parse numbers to back their claims, then why is the class almost never brought into the top end group comps outside of 1 support dps pet stamina sorc specifically for atros group major berserk.

I would happily sacrifice 10k DPS to get 70k more AOE DPS. Much more useful for 99% of content.

yep, you, me and everyone else would make that exact same trade, hence why everyone runs DK and arcanist currently and sorc and NB are relegated to support classes if they are included at all.

Tyrant_Tim

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

One idea I had was that the pets would periodically do their ability with either a cooldown or on time intervals similar to the Bear ultimate, sacrificing your use of them on-demand at the expense of needing to two-bar them.

This would be more than fair coupled with a hefty enough nerf to Daedric Prey, to make slotting them comparable to other options for DPS, while fixing the necessity to run pets that we have currently.

Although, I’m a bit bias because I’ve always enjoyed Conjuration in prior Elder Scrolls games and over the years we’ve drifted away from Overload Sorcs to Pet Sorcs and I’m here for it. It just doesn’t feel great having a fraction of the bar space other classes have.

Just wanted to add, very strange that someone who claims to play Sorc would be opposed to opening up options to improve their gameplay experience. Especially seeing how horrendous it is trying to find room on your bars for the important things, like Restraining Prison, Frost Pulsar or Bound Aegis. You can’t help but feel like you need just one more spot on your bars as a Sorc Tank, and it’s extremely unenjoyable.

Especially on console where we can’t click a button and swap our entire skill loadouts.

Vaqual

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

I want to see build variations for the class that hits good numbers. Do you not? Would you rather keep them completely dependent on this again? Prey is a big part of what makes pets viable and it is not nearly as useful in content as it actually has to fall off to get good damage.

I said it before, Sorc needs to get out of the shadow of pet.
Sorc does need "no pet build" and needs to buff other skill lines to get a better source of damage.
I believe our appeal is the same, isn't it?

I dont believe so. The ability to have them as one bar would make it as a must for all builds as it provides significant damage with the ability to run other skills to boot. It would be mandatory to run for all pve builds because of that. What could you replace it with in this situation that would get similar damage? There really isnt anything as it stands. There would have to be significant buffs to several other skills to make it a choice rather then a necessity.
Its just another pet buff That would make them even more important. Im not interested in being forced to run pets forever. Skills that were powerful enough to take 2 bars now only take up space on one. Why would anyone not add to that damage and run four less powerful skills. If that were the case it would be happening now but it is the bis even with 4 spots taken with 2 it would become exponentially more important.

I think this is an excellent point. The skills themselves are rather balanced, it is just that people do not like the trade-offs. Be it for aesthetic reasons, reliability or build diversity reasons. Which is completely fair. But the truth is, other classes face such restrictions too. If you dislike Grim Focus for aesthetic reasons or you are just fed up with it, you are gimping yourself. And I feel sorry for sorc mains, because to me these daedra pets are also ugly. Having substantial amounts of class power locked behind unappealing options is a bummer. But as I said, since all of classes can find themselves depending on certain abilities, it would be much better to expand and diversify non-class options. That would just be more efficient. And yes, certain classes have been balanced around availability of certain types of skills, but as most of you seem willing to accept small nerfs to the matriarch in exchange for conventional burst heal, it should be ok for class skills to remain slightly stronger.

All of that for saying: Changing the pets will please a certain subpopulation of players and might upset others. Flat out "buffing" them by removing the two-bar restriction would likely make them stay on everyones bar regardless (see quote). This would likely not be a good long-term solution.

The only other option I would see would be to drastically diversify pet morphs (something I also suggested for Grim Focus), to preserve the current version and allow for the introduction of a very different skill. But somehow they do not really like to do this. Maybe the code isn't very flexible regarding morph animations?

I wish all sorcs good luck in their endeavours and I hope the result will be balanced and enjoyable for everyone.

MashmalloMan

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

We already make these decisions any time you choose to take 1 skill over another. The only reason you don't always slot your HP% heal every time like other tanks is because it takes 2 skill slots which isn't interesting game design, it's shoehorning you into sacrificing a core tanking ability because you can't justify wasting 2 slots for a self heal.

Also Clanfear is pretty weak for costing 2 slots. If you use a build editor, it appears it heals for 32% while Warden's Polar Wind heals for 30%, gives a HOT, and heals a second target for the same amount. Clanfear does nothing for your team besides healing itself for half, except oh wait, pets don't take damage in group PvE content.

I'm sorry, but how does Clanfear as a burst tank heal even make sense in the power budget? Tormentor and Familiar deal good passive and active damage, thus it's like using 2 skills as 1, 2 slots makes sense.

Nothing Clanfear or Matriarch does passively benefits tanks and healers at all. The damage they deal is inconsequential because it starts with a low tooltip and tanks have low damage stats to begin with.

Matriarch is only decent because it heals a second target for the full amount with no conditions, while other class burst heals can't or in the case of Necro's costs a corpse. Still not worth 2 skill slots for something that can be killed.

MashmalloMan

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

So much this, also, I am yet to see a (reputable) video of these mythical 140k+ parses from a sorc...

Same cheese it's always been... using Overload at 500 ult before the fight even begins, saving a GCD and boosting DPS for 20s before dumping for Atro. It's not representative of actual content, sometimes you'll be able to pull it off in a trial with maybe 200-300 ult because a fight was ending shortly, but it's not much of a benefit over giving your team Major Berserk earlier just to boost your own DPS for 5 seconds potentially missing the Atro dump target by accident.

https://youtu.be/NmqUN_ACa78?si=OYVxPpXpK34pKefb

For reference, overload gave him +5.5k free DPS.

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

So much this, also, I am yet to see a (reputable) video of these mythical 140k+ parses from a sorc...

Same cheese it's always been... using Overload at 500 ult before the fight even begins, saving a GCD and boosting DPS for 20s before dumping for Atro. It's not representative of actual content, sometimes you'll be able to pull it off in a trial with maybe 200-300 ult because a fight was ending shortly, but it's not much of a benefit over giving your team Major Berserk earlier just to boost your own DPS for 5 seconds potentially missing the Atro dump target by accident.

https://youtu.be/NmqUN_ACa78?si=OYVxPpXpK34pKefb

For reference, overload gave him +5.5k free DPS.

Interesting, so the so called "breaks 140k DPS" parses that are being used to say sorc is fine is more like barely clips 140k if they get a really lucky crit rate on the parse + cheese it with overload under completely unrealistic combat scenarios that would practically never come up in actual content and is only viable in the specific scenario of trial dummy parsing when specifically set up for it...

Going to spoiler the following since its a bit of a tangent, but its still relevant enough to the conversation, especially when discussing dummy parses as a metric to "balance" sorc.

I have done in the past when theory crafting for PvP, the similar unrealistic scenario for soul assault and bow ulti on a necro, which resulted in soul assault having a 256k+ tooltip and toxic barrage having what is effectively a nearly 320k tooltip (combined direct and DoT damage), but it cheesed maelstrom DW flurry that made it insanely unreliable to use and line up in actual content.

Soul Assault:


Toxic Barrage:


BTW, these tooltips are on a Necro that has 32k health (0 attributes), 25k stamina (64 attributes), 2300 stam recovery and 1600 mag recovery.

For those curious on the build for this, its 2 pc balorghs, 5 pc deadly, 1 pc sea-serpents, 2 pc trainee, maelstrom DW, masters bow.

A few extra buffs were given which are insanely easy to get and very common in even mid tier or small scale group play (minor courage, breach/vulnerability on target, minor brutality, minor savagery).

No powerful assault, spaulder of ruin or rallying cry were used for this either. If these 3 buffs are added (even reducing rallying to account for group setting), they give soul assault a 278k tooltip and toxic barrage a nearly 348k tooltip.

But, just like the "140k" parses, these tooltips are not a realistic scenario for in game content.

This is why I hate when people try to claim sorc is super strong using dummy parses to back up their claims. By that same logic, we should also be nerfing the crap out of necro and soul assault even more because the potential tooltips on single target DoT abilities, thanks in no small part to necros +10% DoT modifier, can get to absurd values on what is essentially a PvP DD build (32k health, decent to high recoveries, over 20k resistances), yes its squishy by PvP standards, but its not PvE levels of squishy.

Yes the build for my example was done on the build editor, but that has about the same relevance to playing actual in game content that these 140k dummy parses have.

Soarora

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

One idea I had was that the pets would periodically do their ability with either a cooldown or on time intervals similar to the Bear ultimate, sacrificing your use of them on-demand at the expense of needing to two-bar them.

This would be more than fair coupled with a hefty enough nerf to Daedric Prey, to make slotting them comparable to other options for DPS, while fixing the necessity to run pets that we have currently.

Although, I’m a bit bias because I’ve always enjoyed Conjuration in prior Elder Scrolls games and over the years we’ve drifted away from Overload Sorcs to Pet Sorcs and I’m here for it. It just doesn’t feel great having a fraction of the bar space other classes have.

Just wanted to add, very strange that someone who claims to play Sorc would be opposed to opening up options to improve their gameplay experience. Especially seeing how horrendous it is trying to find room on your bars for the important things, like Restraining Prison, Frost Pulsar or Bound Aegis. You can’t help but feel like you need just one more spot on your bars as a Sorc Tank, and it’s extremely unenjoyable.

Especially on console where we can’t click a button and swap our entire skill loadouts.

A periodic auto heal would make clannfear even worse. I don’t care about the DPS side of things because I don’t play petsorc anymore and never have seriously, so I cannot give a good opinion. To me, 1-barring clannfear would simply be worse of an experience. If it’s just one slot for a burst heal through block why not run it all the time? Make sorc feel more like any other tank then. And no, honestly, I usually don’t feel like I’m running out of bar space. You don’t need clannfear most of the time. When you do need clannfear (ex. Trials or some dungeon HMs), you don’t need pulsar or restraining prison or catrops and would have enough time to manually swap things since you don’t need any of those skills in trial trash and you can make people stop before activating HM to swap skills.

Soarora

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

We already make these decisions any time you choose to take 1 skill over another. The only reason you don't always slot your HP% heal every time like other tanks is because it takes 2 skill slots which isn't interesting game design, it's shoehorning you into sacrificing a core tanking ability because you can't justify wasting 2 slots for a self heal.

Also Clanfear is pretty weak for costing 2 slots. If you use a build editor, it appears it heals for 32% while Warden's Polar Wind heals for 30%, gives a HOT, and heals a second target for the same amount. Clanfear does nothing for your team besides healing itself for half, except oh wait, pets don't take damage in group PvE content.

I'm sorry, but how does Clanfear as a burst tank heal even make sense in the power budget? Tormentor and Familiar deal good passive and active damage, thus it's like using 2 skills as 1, 2 slots makes sense.

Nothing Clanfear or Matriarch does passively benefits tanks and healers at all. The damage they deal is inconsequential because it starts with a low tooltip and tanks have low damage stats to begin with.

Matriarch is only decent because it heals a second target for the full amount with no conditions, while other class burst heals can't or in the case of Necro's costs a corpse. Still not worth 2 skill slots for something that can be killed.

It’s interesting game design to me! I’m not changing how I feel about it. I don’t care if the other summons are 1-barred but clannfear should stay as 2, or else the expectation would be to run clannfear all of the time and knowing zos, they’d nerf the healing power.

RaptorRodeoGod

Nobody seems to remember that the need to double bar pets was ok on release because Sorcs had the Overload 3rd bar, so there wasn't really a loss in slotted skill options. That's been gone for some time now, and the pets were never changed in a meaningful way to compensate. To make them one barrable, you'd have to change their effects a little.

Clanfear could still retain its heal power, but no longer deal damage.

Volatile Familiar can do single target auto attacks, that change to AoE when the ability is cast, instead of having auto attacks+AoE pulse.

Matriarch can just heal and no longer do damage. Maybe reduce the number of players healed by 1 if necessary, since it burst heals 2 allies.

Tormentor can stay the same, because its cast effect isn't phenomenal anyways.

MashmalloMan

Soarora wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

One idea I had was that the pets would periodically do their ability with either a cooldown or on time intervals similar to the Bear ultimate, sacrificing your use of them on-demand at the expense of needing to two-bar them.

This would be more than fair coupled with a hefty enough nerf to Daedric Prey, to make slotting them comparable to other options for DPS, while fixing the necessity to run pets that we have currently.

Although, I’m a bit bias because I’ve always enjoyed Conjuration in prior Elder Scrolls games and over the years we’ve drifted away from Overload Sorcs to Pet Sorcs and I’m here for it. It just doesn’t feel great having a fraction of the bar space other classes have.

Just wanted to add, very strange that someone who claims to play Sorc would be opposed to opening up options to improve their gameplay experience. Especially seeing how horrendous it is trying to find room on your bars for the important things, like Restraining Prison, Frost Pulsar or Bound Aegis. You can’t help but feel like you need just one more spot on your bars as a Sorc Tank, and it’s extremely unenjoyable.

Especially on console where we can’t click a button and swap our entire skill loadouts.

If it’s just one slot for a burst heal through block why not run it all the time? Make sorc feel more like any other tank then.

I'm not sure why you describe it this way, that's like saying using a spammable as a damage dealer or a burst heal as a healer makes you like every other class.. uh yes, it's a core building block to how these roles function in ESO. There isn't anything unique to Clanfear besides being a pain in the butt

Again. Clanfear is not a good ability for 2 slots, it's not even great for 1 slot. Polar Wind does practically the same burst, gives a HOT, can't be killed, and heals an ally. If anything Clanfear needs a buff do something auxillary.

Soarora

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I can really speak on is Clannfear from a PvE tank perspective. From that perspective, I will say, please no. If Clannfear became 1-barrable it'd be nothing more than a glorified burst heal the same as most other tanks have (reducing the distinctness in playstyle of a sorc tank). Having to sacrifice two slots means tanks have to put some thought into it and live on the edge a little to maximize barspace at times, thus not all sorc tanks run clannfear all of the time. 1-bar clannfear would also probably come with a nerf of its healing power... which I would not appreciate as I use clannfear only in instances where I'm taking a looot of damage. I like clannfear as-is.

One idea I had was that the pets would periodically do their ability with either a cooldown or on time intervals similar to the Bear ultimate, sacrificing your use of them on-demand at the expense of needing to two-bar them.

This would be more than fair coupled with a hefty enough nerf to Daedric Prey, to make slotting them comparable to other options for DPS, while fixing the necessity to run pets that we have currently.

Although, I’m a bit bias because I’ve always enjoyed Conjuration in prior Elder Scrolls games and over the years we’ve drifted away from Overload Sorcs to Pet Sorcs and I’m here for it. It just doesn’t feel great having a fraction of the bar space other classes have.

Just wanted to add, very strange that someone who claims to play Sorc would be opposed to opening up options to improve their gameplay experience. Especially seeing how horrendous it is trying to find room on your bars for the important things, like Restraining Prison, Frost Pulsar or Bound Aegis. You can’t help but feel like you need just one more spot on your bars as a Sorc Tank, and it’s extremely unenjoyable.

Especially on console where we can’t click a button and swap our entire skill loadouts.

If it’s just one slot for a burst heal through block why not run it all the time? Make sorc feel more like any other tank then.

I'm not sure why you describe it this way, that's like saying using a spammable as a damage dealer or a burst heal as a healer makes you like every other class.. uh yes, it's a core building block to how these roles function in ESO. There isn't anything unique to Clanfear besides being a pain in the butt

Again. Clanfear is not a good ability for 2 slots, it's not even great for 1 slot. Polar Wind does practically the same burst, gives a HOT, can't be killed, and heals an ally. If anything Clanfear needs a buff do something auxillary.

Because sorc tank is perfectly fine without clannfear in lots of content. Dark deal burst heals, so does puncture with DSA snb, clannfear is the Special burst heal, not one to be run all the time IMO. Then buff clannfear, nerf polar wind, whichever. I basically just consider clannfear a crutch (I call it my emotional support clannfear) for when damage taken is so high or I’m scared of the content to the point that I need a strong mag heal through block.

autocookies

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