Sorc pets 1 bar

grzes848909

Last update we saw change to Grim Focus (nightblade) and Bound Armor (sorcerer) functionalty and how now they only need to be slotted on 1 bar. Can we please have pets only take up one space on spacebar ?

Amottica

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

Zodiarkslayer

I think, it is a necessary thing to happen, along with a redesign with of all pets/summons. But will it come in U40?

Let's see what they come up with on Monday, shall we?

grzes848909

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

Braffin

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

Necrotech_Master

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

acastanza_ESO

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

I disagree, there is absolutely no reason for any change other than making them one bar-able.

Braffin

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

Necrotech_Master

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

Braffin

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat. That's probably a matter of taste, but perfectly valid if you aren't one of the players, which like to harass other people using their twilight in social hubs. But there other solutions to this problem (and the scamp isn't an issue for example).

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them. As you said, wardens (outside the bear) and necromancers have to constantly recast their summons, thus spending resources on them, while sorc pets don't have this requirement (for their basic attacks, you still spend resources for the special ability). The tradeoff for this is, that a petsorc can use less skills than any other 2-bar-build.

Necrotech_Master

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat.

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them.

i never really found the sorc pets to be that strong, though i guess it is considered mostly free dmg as you dont have to cast anything for them to attack (the matriarch is a strong heal, but is reliant on the matriarch being well alive to use)

if they could be 1 barred (the pet would stay summoned as long as the skill was on one of your bars), you would still be limited to only using its active ability on the bar the skill is slotted on, and having to switch to that bar if it did die and need to be resummoned

i wouldnt think its any more powerful than the arcanist getting the major dmg buffs for just having inspired scholarship slotted, but still needing to activate the skill to get other effect

or the NB grim focus and morphs giving basically a passive dmg buff regardless of bar but needing to go to the bar its on to use the proc

Braffin

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat.

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them.

i never really found the sorc pets to be that strong, though i guess it is considered mostly free dmg as you dont have to cast anything for them to attack (the matriarch is a strong heal, but is reliant on the matriarch being well alive to use)

if they could be 1 barred (the pet would stay summoned as long as the skill was on one of your bars), you would still be limited to only using its active ability on the bar the skill is slotted on, and having to switch to that bar if it did die and need to be resummoned

i wouldnt think its any more powerful than the arcanist getting the major dmg buffs for just having inspired scholarship slotted, but still needing to activate the skill to get other effect

or the NB grim focus and morphs giving basically a passive dmg buff regardless of bar but needing to go to the bar its on to use the proc

I think the question is less how skills work on other classes compared to sorc (grim focus isn't compareable to sorc pets, as it's a completely different skill mechanic-wise and embedded in a completely different skillset) but which skills of a sorc's kit could be used in addition with the freed up slots.

And I definitely don't want to see other skills nerfed because of pets. Indeed most of them could use a buff, to make no-pet-sorc a viable option again.

Players should be able to decide to play their sorc with or without pet. Both is reasonable and there is an audience for both playstyles. I abandoned my sorc the very moment when pets became mandatory for engaging content, as I simply can't stand those pets around me.

Necrotech_Master

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat.

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them.

i never really found the sorc pets to be that strong, though i guess it is considered mostly free dmg as you dont have to cast anything for them to attack (the matriarch is a strong heal, but is reliant on the matriarch being well alive to use)

if they could be 1 barred (the pet would stay summoned as long as the skill was on one of your bars), you would still be limited to only using its active ability on the bar the skill is slotted on, and having to switch to that bar if it did die and need to be resummoned

i wouldnt think its any more powerful than the arcanist getting the major dmg buffs for just having inspired scholarship slotted, but still needing to activate the skill to get other effect

or the NB grim focus and morphs giving basically a passive dmg buff regardless of bar but needing to go to the bar its on to use the proc

I think the question is less how skills work on other classes compared to sorc (grim focus isn't compareable to sorc pets, as it's a completely different skill mechanic-wise and embedded in a completely different skillset) but which skills of a sorc's kit could be used in addition with the freed up slots.

And I definitely don't want to see other skills nerfed because of pets. Indeed most of them could use a buff, to make no-pet-sorc a viable option again.

Players should be able to decide to play their sorc with or without pet. Both is reasonable and there is an audience for both playstyles. I abandoned my sorc the very moment when pets became mandatory for engaging content, as I simply can't stand those pets around me.

it doesnt seem that mechanically different, grim focus and inspired scholarship passives are just dmg buffs (one a hard weapon and spell dmg value, one major buffs), while i see the sorc pets as passive "direct dmg" instead of buffing your other dmg

the only sorc i have is a healer, but i only run 1 of the 2 pets because i cant afford to give up that much bar space so i only use the matriarch to have the burst heal

if i could 1 bar the pets, i would certainly put the volatile pet on my other bar so i could still add a little more dmg while im healing

i do agree that sorcs other skills could use a touch up, ive never liked crystal frags no matter how many times i tried it, feels awful to use

Braffin

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat.

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them.

i never really found the sorc pets to be that strong, though i guess it is considered mostly free dmg as you dont have to cast anything for them to attack (the matriarch is a strong heal, but is reliant on the matriarch being well alive to use)

if they could be 1 barred (the pet would stay summoned as long as the skill was on one of your bars), you would still be limited to only using its active ability on the bar the skill is slotted on, and having to switch to that bar if it did die and need to be resummoned

i wouldnt think its any more powerful than the arcanist getting the major dmg buffs for just having inspired scholarship slotted, but still needing to activate the skill to get other effect

or the NB grim focus and morphs giving basically a passive dmg buff regardless of bar but needing to go to the bar its on to use the proc

I think the question is less how skills work on other classes compared to sorc (grim focus isn't compareable to sorc pets, as it's a completely different skill mechanic-wise and embedded in a completely different skillset) but which skills of a sorc's kit could be used in addition with the freed up slots.

And I definitely don't want to see other skills nerfed because of pets. Indeed most of them could use a buff, to make no-pet-sorc a viable option again.

Players should be able to decide to play their sorc with or without pet. Both is reasonable and there is an audience for both playstyles. I abandoned my sorc the very moment when pets became mandatory for engaging content, as I simply can't stand those pets around me.

it doesnt seem that mechanically different, grim focus and inspired scholarship passives are just dmg buffs (one a hard weapon and spell dmg value, one major buffs), while i see the sorc pets as passive "direct dmg" instead of buffing your other dmg

the only sorc i have is a healer, but i only run 1 of the 2 pets because i cant afford to give up that much bar space so i only use the matriarch to have the burst heal

if i could 1 bar the pets, i would certainly put the volatile pet on my other bar so i could still add a little more dmg while im healing

i do agree that sorcs other skills could use a touch up, ive never liked crystal frags no matter how many times i tried it, feels awful to use

I agree regarding inspired scholarship, grim focus is another topic tho. Sure, theoretically one could use the passive buff without ever activating spectral bow. But to do somewhat competitive dps in engaging content, you'll have to fire your bow as often as possible, requiring constant LA weaving at a high level (that's indeed the only class mechanic, where proper weaving is still required. Sorcs had something similar in ancient times using overload builds.).

I've to admit tho, that I didn't think about healers and tank perspectives regarding pets. That's definitely an interesting point.

Galeriano

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

I disagree, there is absolutely no reason for any change other than making them one bar-able.

Change like that would make sorc a top DD with second class being far behind. Tormentor alone taking one slot and doing up to 10k DPS passively would be the most OP PvE DoT in the game. Volatile familiar taking one slot and doing 2-3x the DPS of other DoTs also would be a bit broken. These two pets would produce the DPS of 3-5 other DoT abilities while taking only 2 slots and one of them working passively. That's simply too much

Necrotech_Master

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I see, so it's specifically important for you to have them around outside of combat.

Letting the issues with the flapping pest aside, as we aren't talking about visuals here, I nonetheless can't see any possibility to one-bar pets (thus freeing up two additional slots for skills) without balancing (=nerfing in this case) them.

i never really found the sorc pets to be that strong, though i guess it is considered mostly free dmg as you dont have to cast anything for them to attack (the matriarch is a strong heal, but is reliant on the matriarch being well alive to use)

if they could be 1 barred (the pet would stay summoned as long as the skill was on one of your bars), you would still be limited to only using its active ability on the bar the skill is slotted on, and having to switch to that bar if it did die and need to be resummoned

i wouldnt think its any more powerful than the arcanist getting the major dmg buffs for just having inspired scholarship slotted, but still needing to activate the skill to get other effect

or the NB grim focus and morphs giving basically a passive dmg buff regardless of bar but needing to go to the bar its on to use the proc

I think the question is less how skills work on other classes compared to sorc (grim focus isn't compareable to sorc pets, as it's a completely different skill mechanic-wise and embedded in a completely different skillset) but which skills of a sorc's kit could be used in addition with the freed up slots.

And I definitely don't want to see other skills nerfed because of pets. Indeed most of them could use a buff, to make no-pet-sorc a viable option again.

Players should be able to decide to play their sorc with or without pet. Both is reasonable and there is an audience for both playstyles. I abandoned my sorc the very moment when pets became mandatory for engaging content, as I simply can't stand those pets around me.

it doesnt seem that mechanically different, grim focus and inspired scholarship passives are just dmg buffs (one a hard weapon and spell dmg value, one major buffs), while i see the sorc pets as passive "direct dmg" instead of buffing your other dmg

the only sorc i have is a healer, but i only run 1 of the 2 pets because i cant afford to give up that much bar space so i only use the matriarch to have the burst heal

if i could 1 bar the pets, i would certainly put the volatile pet on my other bar so i could still add a little more dmg while im healing

i do agree that sorcs other skills could use a touch up, ive never liked crystal frags no matter how many times i tried it, feels awful to use

I agree regarding inspired scholarship, grim focus is another topic tho. Sure, theoretically one could use the passive buff without ever activating spectral bow. But to do somewhat competitive dps in engaging content, you'll have to fire your bow as often as possible, requiring constant LA weaving at a high level (that's indeed the only class mechanic, where proper weaving is still required. Sorcs had something similar in ancient times using overload builds.).

I've to admit tho, that I didn't think about healers and tank perspectives regarding pets. That's definitely an interesting point.

ive never used a NB for dps lol, i have one for pvp (parsing? whats that? all about that burst) and as a stealth toon that doesnt engage in much combat, but there are some people who use grim focus for the passive buff (the stam morph gives +400 weapon and spell dmg at 5 stacks, so its not insignificant)

my top dps characters would be a stamplar, stam arcanist, and a mag dk, then after that an experimental HA mag necro

only ever used a sorc for healing (which i know is also an oddity lol)

Duke_Falcon

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

Even after you summon the pet you still have to hit the skill button again to get any real true benefit out of the pet, not a very viable point, since all the pets do is light attack for very very little damage.

Amottica

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now.

This is likely personal preference rather than what is best overall.

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

If the suggestion is to add some sort of cost or delay that is not part of any design currently in the game then it falls flat since the sorc summons are unkillable in certain situations. Therefore the suggestion is not relevant.

Amottica

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

Even after you summon the pet you still have to hit the skill button again to get any real true benefit out of the pet, not a very viable point, since all the pets do is light attack for very very little damage.

The summon has one activity just by being summoned. This activity continues without any further action required by the player. Pressing the skill again brings about a special activity.

So yes, my comment brings up a very viable and accurate point.

WrathOfInnos

I also do not like the bar space constraint with pets taking up 4 slots. However, I don’t think making them work from a single bar is the answer. That change would be the last nail in the coffin of no-pet Sorc builds. Pet sorc with 5 front bar slots free (instead of 3) would be THE ONLY build.

IMO no-pet is the most fun build in the game. It has not been particularly competitive in years, generally falling 5-10k behind pet builds. That difference would be much greater if pets could be single barred.

Looking at Sorc overall, the class is pretty weak at the moment. It is a good time for a significant buff, but it should be a buff that affects all types of Sorc build. A buff that only benefits pet builds would be a slap in the face to anyone trying to make no-pet Sorc viable.

Zodiarkslayer

To make one bar pets a balanced option, I think at least Daedric Prey needs to loose its damage multiplier for pets.
That sounds harsh, but just giving pets one bar space would elevate at least StamSorc above all else.

I am not up to date, but I have seen 133k+ parses during the last pts. Without pets. And players were confident they could hit even more.

JanTanhide

grzes848909 wrote: »

Last update we saw change to Grim Focus (nightblade) and Bound Armor (sorcerer) functionalty and how now they only need to be slotted on 1 bar. Can we please have pets only take up one space on spacebar ?

Agree. Pets should be one bar slotted.

NuarBlack

One bar pets would have to be nerfed significantly. It's my understanding they are actually balanced like dots. Getting completely free dots without the global is really huge. In pve that means 2 less globals on your back bar during every rotation(I know there are active effects). In pvp globals are even a bigger deal. Whether a bar slot or a global is comparable is the question.

Pets could be one bared if their power balance of both its passive and active effects matched that of other skills. Right now they don't. Sorry but a free DoT isn't the same as any of the passive buffs common on other skills.

Elvenheart

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

grzes848909 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design of the Sorc pets are the core reason they must be on both bars. It would require full redesign to something that requires the player to constantly resummon the pets every few seconds similar to how the other pet classes work.

In other words, the current pets will not become single bar skills.

True, but having 2 diffrent skills instead of a pet tends to be better for a lot of content right now. Better yet they could just make the pets more expensive to maintain, for instance anytime a pet dies it takes longer to resummon them again, for example 3-4 seconds instead 1.5 of and twice as much magicka than in current patch, would be a lot easier to do that than redesign the pets from scratch.

I'd prefer them to make sorc pets similar to the warden's netchling: A skill on one bar which summons the pet for a limited amount of time. They should remove the cast time tho.

So the skill is useable in combat (although some number tweaking may be necessary for balancing) and there isn't any need for summoned combat pets in towns or other social hubs. This way they'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone, including the flapping one.

please no, i dont like "temporary" summons, i hate the necromancer ones because they arent up all the time (being weak is a different story)

if the pets were temp summon, i would just permanently remove them from my bar and never go back

Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with temporary summons?

unless the "temporary" part of temporary summon is like 5 minutes (minimum), it is not a summon skill to me, just a skill graphic

an example would be warden animal skills, the only one in there that is a true summon is the bear, all of the others still count as "summons" for the passives but are literally just skill graphics, they are not pets

necromancer as another example, the healing wraith and the skeletal mage are not summons, they are skill graphics because they only last for 20 seconds, blast bones is straight up annoying and buggy

the only true pets we have in this game are companions, the 2 sorc pets, and the warden bear, everything else is just a glorified skill graphic that is not in any way shape or form a pet

when necromancer released, it was a massive disappointment to me in the way it was set up, i was expecting something like sorc pets for necromancer

i really like pets, my previous mmo was city of villains and my favorite class in there was the mastermind (which one of the powersets was entirely focused on pet summons, usually would run around with a minimum of 6 pets that were out permanently until they died)

I agree about the necromancer, it was disappointing to me that the pets don’t last longer. I mean, NPC, necromancers in the game have armies of skeletons and things that do not disappear until they are killed. It makes our necromancer seem so much weaker in comparison.

PS: I have to say that City of Heroes/Villains is my favorite mmo of all time! A lot of the features it had were definitely before their time. And the mastermind class was a great!

MakeMeUhSamich

Make No-Pet MagSorc Great Again!

At least No-Pet StamSorc...

RaptorRodeoGod

NuarBlack wrote: »

One bar pets would have to be nerfed significantly. It's my understanding they are actually balanced like dots. Getting completely free dots without the global is really huge. In pve that means 2 less globals on your back bar during every rotation(I know there are active effects). In pvp globals are even a bigger deal. Whether a bar slot or a global is comparable is the question.

Pets could be one bared if their power balance of both its passive and active effects matched that of other skills. Right now they don't. Sorry but a free DoT isn't the same as any of the passive buffs common on other skills.

All they would have to do is need pet damage by like 50ish%, not that big a deal

Tyrant_Tim

Having less bar space than any other class is the opposite of fun, and it’s about time we embrace the direction of the class and in doing so acknowledge that it’s time they become one-bar.

You can toss the added heals of the bird, or the pulse of the gremlin from a second cast, and just have them periodically do it, similar to either Shadowrend, Maw of the Infernal, or even the Warden bear.

the1andonlyskwex

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You can toss the added heals of the bird, or the pulse of the gremlin from a second cast, and just have them periodically do it, similar to either Shadowrend, Maw of the Infernal, or even the Warden bear.

That would be awful for the matriarch. Its whole purpose is as sorc's on-demand burst heal. Turning it into some kind of slow ticking HoT would make sorc healers pretty much nonviable in any group content.

boi_anachronism_

The stam sorc is already the highest damage class in the game, bar none breaking 140k, something no other class gets close to. Opening those two spots for more damage skills? You cant be serious.

ZhuJiuyin

I must remind that the so-called 140K is based on the data of the parsing dummy
In actual combat, stam sorc has to struggle even to reach 100K (EX: VSE HM), and magic sorc is even uncompetitive in trials (magic sorc is almost invisible in HM data)
So, yes. sorc needs to be freed from the shadow of pets.

boi_anachronism_

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I must remind that the so-called 140K is based on the data of the parsing dummy
In actual combat, stam sorc has to struggle even to reach 100K (EX: VSE HM), and magic sorc is even uncompetitive in trials (magic sorc is almost invisible in HM data)
So, yes. sorc needs to be freed from the shadow of pets.

Uh no. Sorc is mandatory in every trial comp for major berserk.Orb sorc is mandatory for burst in vcr as well as berserk. All data is based on dummies for console. Few players can actually break 110k in content via pc logs without a super optomized group. You think arcs are actually breaking 130k in combat? Blades are unheard of in endgame besides as healers because the rotations are almost impossible to keep up consistently. They parse well but are absolute garbage in 12 man, besides vas and that is for sustain not damage as they bring no group buffs worth losing another class for. So no. And i am in a vse hm prog. We have no blade but you can bet we got sorcs. My triple skip prog, again sorc is mandatory but no blade.

It doesnt need 1 bar pets. It needs skills that make builds BEYOND pets viable. If anything nuke the stupid pets and buff the other skills tremendously. Its been overly dependent on that flappy flap for ages. Its driven people from playing the class. I only use it in pvp as a result cause i dont need the stupid pets.