Does Endless Archive really reset on logging off/disconnect?

Kallykat

I'm a solo player who doesn't focus on combat. It's probably going to take me a crazy amount of time (years) and playthroughs just to finish the first arc, but I know most people aren't like me. After reading through some threads, I can see arguments on both sides of this issue.

Ideally, to satisfy the majority of players with different playstyles, I think they should make progress saves possible by arc for solo runs and maybe runs with companions but not for 2-player runs (as with other multi-player dungeons/trials). However, if you save progress, you lose the chance to be on the leaderboards.

Elsonso

peacenote wrote: »

So, what's funny to me is I assumed all along that if you left an "endless dungeon" it would reset. None of the marketing made me think otherwise. Because that is how pretty much any group instanced content in ESO works. Why would this be any different?

Yes. This is where reality sets in. It has to reset at some point. Multiple sessions was obviously not a design point of this system.

Honestly, for the super majority of players, I doubt this will be an issue.

My expectation is that most players won't do this content more than a couple times. Those that do it on a regular or semi-regular basis will be a definite minority. It is, after all, a dungeon in ESO. Out of those who do repeat the content, I expect the daily quest will be the goal. Sounds like the daily quest is to just complete the first Arc, and so I expect that this will be what most of those people do. That daily quest will be, what, 15 arenas and 5 bosses, with the last one being a super boss? It will be interesting to see if that is "in, out, claim reward" enough to qualify as a daily quest that gets used.

It also looks like they overthought it a bit. Stages. Cycles. Arcs? Archival Fortunes currency? Verses? Visions? Complicated. I was not expecting an "endless dungeon" to just be an endless arena. I am a little disappointed. I was expecting a dungeon.

Treeshka

I did not watched the whole stream and if there is not there should be some item that allows you to start from a certain Arc which can be bought from the vendors with the currency we earn.

If leaderboard is all about amount of Arc cleared players can choose to start from their desired Arc. Provided that they have already cleared the previous ones. They can be asked to choose permanent buffs based on how many Arc they have skipped.

FantasticFreddie

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.

We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.

Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.

... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.

Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.

I mean, that is exactly what it is, a dungeon with random bosses. From what they showed, outside of a few random quests, it isn't some deep lore dive.

And the reset is very clearly because this is leaderboard content, hence the inability to use the armorer. They don't want players changing characters or stepping away to resupply or craft new gear. You're supposed to survive in one go on the character you went in on.

But Maelstrom doesn't reset and neither does Vateshran Hallows, and they have leaderboards as well. If you leave after a small grace period for disconnects, it should disqualify you from the leaderboard and hide your score. But I don't see why the whole dungeon should need to reset for that reason.

Those two are not group dungeons. This one is. And I am fairly certain that Vateshran resets if you are out of it for long enough, or swap characters as the OP suggested they would want to do.

Vateshran has a quest you take and it remembers your progress and even which buffs you found. However, once you leave for a while you are disqualified from the no death achievement and leaderboards. Due to this disqualification, leaderboards are still fair. But they are also able to allow for the user friendly design of being able to come back.

Black Rose Prison, Vateshran Hallows, and Maelstrom Arena all retain your progress via quest. It's not unique to VH.

Blackrose does not, only the solo arenas do.

I think the problem at some level is it can be both a group or a solo dungeon, the intention is probably to prevent cheesing or something, or maybe there are complications with it from a coding standpoint, but from a player point of view, let me log out and come back tomorrow when I am fresh and energized, without losing my spot.

Yup. I said later in the thread, I realize that now after testing it. The quest shows up as saving the stage you were on and says you can go back upon leaving. That's what lead me to that impression as I finished it in one go all other times. However when I tested it when you re-enter it, it actually updates back to the original level. I think they should make it so BRP doesn't work that way either then.

https://youtu.be/ZnRYSkfgrNE?si=t0cVlTy3BrCIVj8g

I really don't see any reason these two shouldn't work like Maelstrom. Just disqualify the people entering that way from the achievements and leaderboards.

I think letting 4 man arenas work like that is ripe for abuse tbh.

Like, 4 people take the quest, get to round 5, then disband the group. Each person could then pick up 3 more people and bring them into a last boss instance.
In this case, it's a maximum of 2 people so while in theory you could have 2 people getting to x round, then split up and take an additional two people, the risk does not seem all that great.

spartaxoxo

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.

We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.

Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.

... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.

Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.

I mean, that is exactly what it is, a dungeon with random bosses. From what they showed, outside of a few random quests, it isn't some deep lore dive.

And the reset is very clearly because this is leaderboard content, hence the inability to use the armorer. They don't want players changing characters or stepping away to resupply or craft new gear. You're supposed to survive in one go on the character you went in on.

But Maelstrom doesn't reset and neither does Vateshran Hallows, and they have leaderboards as well. If you leave after a small grace period for disconnects, it should disqualify you from the leaderboard and hide your score. But I don't see why the whole dungeon should need to reset for that reason.

Those two are not group dungeons. This one is. And I am fairly certain that Vateshran resets if you are out of it for long enough, or swap characters as the OP suggested they would want to do.

Vateshran has a quest you take and it remembers your progress and even which buffs you found. However, once you leave for a while you are disqualified from the no death achievement and leaderboards. Due to this disqualification, leaderboards are still fair. But they are also able to allow for the user friendly design of being able to come back.

Black Rose Prison, Vateshran Hallows, and Maelstrom Arena all retain your progress via quest. It's not unique to VH.

Blackrose does not, only the solo arenas do.

I think the problem at some level is it can be both a group or a solo dungeon, the intention is probably to prevent cheesing or something, or maybe there are complications with it from a coding standpoint, but from a player point of view, let me log out and come back tomorrow when I am fresh and energized, without losing my spot.

Yup. I said later in the thread, I realize that now after testing it. The quest shows up as saving the stage you were on and says you can go back upon leaving. That's what lead me to that impression as I finished it in one go all other times. However when I tested it when you re-enter it, it actually updates back to the original level. I think they should make it so BRP doesn't work that way either then.

https://youtu.be/ZnRYSkfgrNE?si=t0cVlTy3BrCIVj8g

I really don't see any reason these two shouldn't work like Maelstrom. Just disqualify the people entering that way from the achievements and leaderboards.

I think letting 4 man arenas work like that is ripe for abuse tbh.

Like, 4 people take the quest, get to round 5, then disband the group. Each person could then pick up 3 more people and bring them into a last boss instance.
In this case, it's a maximum of 2 people so while in theory you could have 2 people getting to x round, then split up and take an additional two people, the risk does not seem all that great.

I really don't see what you're describing as different than selling carries. And carries would lose a lot of value if you couldn't give people the achievements. So, I think most people buying them would prefer to be part of the group from jump and carried through the whole thing to maximize their gear. They couldn't get most of the achievements and couldn't get on the leaderboard.

Sheezabeast

I think they might mean endless like Olive Garden means endless soup, salad, and bread sticks. Eat your fill, and go.

Jaraal

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Blackrose does not, only the solo arenas do.

I think the problem at some level is it can be both a group or a solo dungeon, the intention is probably to prevent cheesing or something...

And you know darn well that in the same way BRP runs are sold for gold, Endless Archive carries will become a major money maker for elite players. As long as there are gear/achievement/titles/mounts and other collectables tied to an activity, less capable players will be forking over huge amounts of currency to have others do the work for them.

WySoSirius

I guess it lives up to its name of "endless" if we have to start over for every disconnect the servers have lately

mdjessup4906

You should be able to save your progress sonehow and still get leaderboard. Otherwise only those who can play for hours long marathons can place.

For example, all else being equal, I can play for 2 hours and get to arc 5. Someone else who can play for 8 hours straight can get to arc 10, but i never will because rl wont let me be in game that long. How is that fair?

Score should be character locked and reset on death though, and I guess armory locked too if people really care about that.

Dojohoda

We will find out soon. It'll be on PTS on Monday.

Elsonso

Treeshka wrote: »

I did not watched the whole stream and if there is not there should be some item that allows you to start from a certain Arc which can be bought from the vendors with the currency we earn.

I can see a path where something like this sets the starting difficulty rather than starting at a certain Arc or resuming where a player left off. Obviously, the player would not appear in the leaderboard for doing something like this.

Tandor

The last thing any developer wants for drawing new players into a game is for them to find the world is empty as everyone is camping out in an instanced dungeon which they only ever leave in order to do crafting in their instanced house.

Luke_Flamesword

For example, all else being equal, I can play for 2 hours and get to arc 5. Someone else who can play for 8 hours straight can get to arc 10, but i never will because rl wont let me be in game that long. How is that fair?

There will be no 8-hour runs. It will be probably take little more than hour, maximum two to get into impossibile hard and die level.

AlterBlika

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

There will be no 8-hour runs. It will be probably take little more than hour, maximum two to get into impossibile hard and die level.

On the stream they played EA for about an hour (maybe? didn't watch it fully) and I honestly didn't see anything impossible. The tank was taking near to zero damage, and the mechanics (aoe ones) wouldn't one shot the squishy dd

hrothbern

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.

IF that is the prevailing argument, I rather have the choice to play EA without ranking

Aislinna

AlterBlika wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

There will be no 8-hour runs. It will be probably take little more than hour, maximum two to get into impossibile hard and die level.

On the stream they played EA for about an hour (maybe? didn't watch it fully) and I honestly didn't see anything impossible. The tank was taking near to zero damage, and the mechanics (aoe ones) wouldn't one shot the squishy dd

On stream they characterized it as "The first arc will be accessible to the majority of players and veteran trial players will most likely find it very easy, but each stage/cycle/arc gets harder and it's a big difficulty jump at the third arc."

Jaraal

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

For example, all else being equal, I can play for 2 hours and get to arc 5. Someone else who can play for 8 hours straight can get to arc 10, but i never will because rl wont let me be in game that long. How is that fair?

But that's exactly how the Emperor achievement has worked for 10 years. Why should this be any different?

AlterBlika

Aislinna wrote: »

On stream they characterized it as "The first arc will be accessible to the majority of players and veteran trial players will most likely find it very easy, but each stage/cycle/arc gets harder and it's a big difficulty jump at the third arc."

I wonder if it's really a "big" jump. We shall see I guess

festegios

It’s an endless dungeon?

What exactly are you looking to be able to do by stopping then starting from the same place?

It’s not like you can finish it?

ArrowPoint

maboleth wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It should work like Maelstrom. Save progress at expense of Leaderboard. In Maelstrom, you get a score if you complete it in one run, but no score if you leave and come back. Why not make this the same? This is feeling a lot less "endless" and more like "Blackrose Prison but random". Which is fine. But the naming and the almost year long teasing seems misplaced. It feels like, "endless in theory, but in practice, you will do 4 or 5 rounds, eventually hit a wall in roughly the same place, rinse, repeat."

Exactly. It's just yet another arena with random bosses. It was hugely hyped for it's 'endless' content and roguelike dungeon generation. And that's my main gripe, sounded much greater and better than it actually is.

Its 'endlessness' ends the moment you have to poo.
The main 'content' is the leaderboard. For explorers, nothing to see there. Hope I'm wrong, but seems to be it.

The Endless Archive doesn't end if and when you need to take a poo. It ends when you either decide to end it or you ran out of respawns. The system could be taken advantage of, if you could continue wherever you left off after logging out and back in.

Elsonso

AlterBlika wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

On stream they characterized it as "The first arc will be accessible to the majority of players and veteran trial players will most likely find it very easy, but each stage/cycle/arc gets harder and it's a big difficulty jump at the third arc."

I wonder if it's really a "big" jump. We shall see I guess

The boss at the end of the first Arc, and probably the cycles, may be too hard for most players to solo or solo with companion. It may require them to have a more skilled partner in the arena with them. They will definitely benefit from finding someone who can solo the first Arc while taking a quick nap.

So... yes... I expect it to be a big jump for a lot of people.

My hope is that it ends up being tuned so that the low end is pretty low, but I know that will likely get them groans from the more experienced players.

Mik195

festegios wrote: »

It’s an endless dungeon?

What exactly are you looking to be able to do by stopping then starting from the same place?

It’s not like you can finish it?

Learn to manage a higher level of difficulty when fresh?

NordSwordnBoard

maboleth wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It should work like Maelstrom. Save progress at expense of Leaderboard. In Maelstrom, you get a score if you complete it in one run, but no score if you leave and come back. Why not make this the same? This is feeling a lot less "endless" and more like "Blackrose Prison but random". Which is fine. But the naming and the almost year long teasing seems misplaced. It feels like, "endless in theory, but in practice, you will do 4 or 5 rounds, eventually hit a wall in roughly the same place, rinse, repeat."

Exactly. It's just yet another arena with random bosses. It was hugely hyped for it's 'endless' content and roguelike dungeon generation. And that's my main gripe, sounded much greater and better than it actually is.

Its 'endlessness' ends the moment you have to poo.
The main 'content' is the leaderboard. For explorers, nothing to see there. Hope I'm wrong, but seems to be it.

When I'm in the Gray Host que,
And that sweaty line is 102...
Life gets what's demanded,
For my controller is banded!
Ergo 1 handed poo,
I just shall not do.

Bringing a controller or mouse into the bathroom is a bannable social offense.

Tensar

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.

what ways exactly?

Most obviously - you can't use the armorer in the EA. If you could leave or relog, you'd be able to swap builds mid-run, which is something they explicitly said they don't want you doing.

It is easy enough to code the restriction that only lets you return with the same configuration you had when you exited. [snip]

The more I read about this EA it sounds less and less like an endless dungeon in the concept of FF XIV or WoW and more like the same old ESO arena with new lipstick.

[edited for minor bashing]

Totally this

If it's not endless there is no point in doing it. They can link our configuration to our session and be unable to change it