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Does Endless Archive really reset on logging off/disconnect?
maboleth
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If it does, it's a major issue. Any RL event, from benign AFK to other stuff will make EA effectively far from 'endless'. Not to mention if you need to do other stuff in the game, change character etc.
Basing EA on rogue-like dungeon is a big plus in my book and a way to go. Kudos to ZOS. But in Roguelike games although you have one life, you can play it forever (until your char dies).
Basing EA on rogue-like dungeon is a big plus in my book and a way to go. Kudos to ZOS. But in Roguelike games although you have one life, you can play it forever (until your char dies).
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loveeso✭✭✭✭If it does, it's a major issue. Any RL event, from benign AFK to other stuff will make EA effectively far from 'endless'. Not to mention if you need to do other stuff in the game, change character etc.
Basing EA on rogue-like dungeon is a big plus in my book and a way to go. Kudos to ZOS. But in Roguelike games although you have one life, you can play it forever (until your char dies).
Good point. One should be able to pause and resume (like one can with the MA quest for example).MMOs: ESO (PS & PC), GW2 (😍) & Souls/Elden (😍)5 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.4 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.
We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.
Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.
... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.
Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.
Edited by maboleth on September 15, 2023 3:00PM4 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.
We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.
Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.
... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.
Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.
I mean, that is exactly what it is, a dungeon with random bosses. From what they showed, outside of a few random quests, it isn't some deep lore dive.
And the reset is very clearly because this is leaderboard content, hence the inability to use the armorer. They don't want players changing characters or stepping away to resupply or craft new gear. You're supposed to survive in one go on the character you went in on.13 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.22 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭But every dungeon had a meaning and a 'lore' attached to it.
So there it goes. For me meaningful content > any leaderboard. But even Maelstrom you could do on your own pace. The game would save after each main boss.
Anyway, there's nothing 'endless' here, it's just a name and randomly generated arena with pew-pew boss fights. My hype for it is now seriously low.9 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But every dungeon had a meaning and a 'lore' attached to it.
So there it goes. For me meaningful content > any leaderboard. But even Maelstrom you could do on your own pace. The game would save after each main boss.
Anyway, there's nothing 'endless' here, it's just a name and randomly generated arena with pew-pew boss fights. My hype for it is now seriously low.
It is endless. You either go until you die, which could be forever if you are somehow able to survive. Or you choose to stop.
Space is endless, even if someone decides to only go a little ways in and return back to earth, space is still endless.7 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But every dungeon had a meaning and a 'lore' attached to it.
So there it goes. For me meaningful content > any leaderboard. But even Maelstrom you could do on your own pace. The game would save after each main boss.
Anyway, there's nothing 'endless' here, it's just a name and randomly generated arena with pew-pew boss fights. My hype for it is now seriously low.
But it is endless? You can keep going endlessly. Just because it might reset on relog doesn't mean it isn't endless.7 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is endless. You either go until you die, which could be forever if you are somehow able to survive. Or you choose to stop. Space is endless, even if someone decides to only go a little ways in and return back to earth, space is still endless.
Are you serious? Comparing space to this 'adventure' that ends and stops the moment you need to go to the toilet or take a shower. Or anything that takes you away for several minutes.
The main thing here seems to be randomness. Rrandomly generated bosses from all over the Tamriel. That's the main perk. Everything else is just a gimmick. So much for roguelike adventure.
I understand it will be a thrill for boss-fighters and leaderboard enthusiasts but major letdown for any explorer out there. It will be shallow by design.3 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It should work like Maelstrom. Save progress at expense of Leaderboard. In Maelstrom, you get a score if you complete it in one run, but no score if you leave and come back. Why not make this the same? This is feeling a lot less "endless" and more like "Blackrose Prison but random". Which is fine. But the naming and the almost year long teasing seems misplaced. It feels like, "endless in theory, but in practice, you will do 4 or 5 rounds, eventually hit a wall in roughly the same place, rinse, repeat."19 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is endless. You either go until you die, which could be forever if you are somehow able to survive. Or you choose to stop. Space is endless, even if someone decides to only go a little ways in and return back to earth, space is still endless.
Are you serious? Comparing space to this 'adventure' that ends and stops the moment you need to go to the toilet or take a shower. Or anything that takes you away for several minutes.
The main thing here seems to be randomness. Rrandomly generated bosses from all over the Tamriel. That's the main perk. Everything else is just a gimmick. So much for roguelike adventure.
I understand it will be a thrill for boss-fighters and leaderboard enthusiasts but major letdown for any explorer out there. It will be shallow by design.
You log off every time you need to stand up? You can just leave the game running and step away. If you need to go somewhere for long enough to trigger the auto logoff, then maybe it wasn't the right time to start an endless dungeon.
And all group dungeons, of which this is one of them, reset when you log out for a period of time or change characters.14 -
UsualSurrender✭✭✭If the score stops when you leave, what is the point of demanding to come back "at the same spot"? You still will get automatically generated encounters.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is endless. You either go until you die, which could be forever if you are somehow able to survive. Or you choose to stop. Space is endless, even if someone decides to only go a little ways in and return back to earth, space is still endless.
Are you serious? Comparing space to this 'adventure' that ends and stops the moment you need to go to the toilet or take a shower. Or anything that takes you away for several minutes.
The main thing here seems to be randomness. Rrandomly generated bosses from all over the Tamriel. That's the main perk. Everything else is just a gimmick. So much for roguelike adventure.
I understand it will be a thrill for boss-fighters and leaderboard enthusiasts but major letdown for any explorer out there. It will be shallow by design.
Also, just want to throw this out there, it being a thrill for players who like boss fights and leaderboards and not for explorers is perfectly ok and reasonable. Not all parts of the game have to be for everyone. Literally 95% of the major update every year is dedicated to questers and explorers. And that is fine too.8 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.
This is why it need to reset.
Si vis pacem, para bellum1 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »It should work like Maelstrom. Save progress at expense of Leaderboard. In Maelstrom, you get a score if you complete it in one run, but no score if you leave and come back. Why not make this the same? This is feeling a lot less "endless" and more like "Blackrose Prison but random". Which is fine. But the naming and the almost year long teasing seems misplaced. It feels like, "endless in theory, but in practice, you will do 4 or 5 rounds, eventually hit a wall in roughly the same place, rinse, repeat."
Exactly. It's just yet another arena with random bosses. It was hugely hyped for it's 'endless' content and roguelike dungeon generation. And that's my main gripe, sounded much greater and better than it actually is.
Its 'endlessness' ends the moment you have to poo.
The main 'content' is the leaderboard. For explorers, nothing to see there. Hope I'm wrong, but seems to be it.4 -
Lozeenge✭✭✭
the dungeon/trial PvE scene desperately needs the amount of attention that overland has gotten over the past year. PvP is in an even worse state comparatively, but that's an argument outside the scope of this thread.I understand it will be a thrill for boss-fighters and leaderboard enthusiasts but major letdown for any explorer out there. It will be shallow by design.PC-NA / 1500+ CP / PvE mostly / "Mama didn't raise no tank."4 -
AlterBlika✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.
what ways exactly?0 -
AlterBlika✭✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »It should work like Maelstrom. Save progress at expense of Leaderboard. In Maelstrom, you get a score if you complete it in one run, but no score if you leave and come back. Why not make this the same? This is feeling a lot less "endless" and more like "Blackrose Prison but random". Which is fine. But the naming and the almost year long teasing seems misplaced. It feels like, "endless in theory, but in practice, you will do 4 or 5 rounds, eventually hit a wall in roughly the same place, rinse, repeat."
MA is a dps race. EA should score cleared levels imo, I'd see no problem that way5 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlterBlika wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.
what ways exactly?
Most obviously - you can't use the armorer in the EA. If you could leave or relog, you'd be able to swap builds mid-run, which is something they explicitly said they don't want you doing.1 -
loveeso✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.
what ways exactly?
Most obviously - you can't use the armorer in the EA. If you could leave or relog, you'd be able to swap builds mid-run, which is something they explicitly said they don't want you doing.
Since it’s not time-based, you can still swap builds, like we routinely do in trials (and we get onto the leaderboards too).
You will be able to swap them even if you’re on a console and don’t have addons, it will just take longer, be more tiresome, and put some people off, but you will still be able to swap them. Gear, CPs, skills, easy… and even morphs and attribute points (with respec scrolls - pay to win or pay for convenience?
)
MMOs: ESO (PS & PC), GW2 (😍) & Souls/Elden (😍)7 -
AlterBlika✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Most obviously - you can't use the armorer in the EA. If you could leave or relog, you'd be able to swap builds mid-run, which is something they explicitly said they don't want you doing.
You know, I bought an armorer npc to swap builds "in-flight". I've never done it so far and I don't even know if it works lol. The only difference between my solo and dps builds is one morph of a skill. The rest is easily changed via addons or inventory. If they disable this then it's, well, not going to be fun. I doubt it though, because you still can do this in trials and arenas.
But if the armory is their main concern then okay. Although I don't see an issue there2 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭The bigger issue is no difficulty levels and no ability start at the level you want.
If you can fight against the difficulty that happens one hour after start, do you always need to play one hour before you can actually play?6 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭It's a randomized arena, not an endless rogue-like dungeon.
Zos could easily remember the 3 numbers of our current stage, and let us continue from there, but apparently we need fair competition rules for yet another leaderboard, that will be largely ignored, while players just go in there to farm their FOTM gear.
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AlterBlika✭✭✭✭The bigger issue is no difficulty levels and no ability start at the level you want.
If you can fight against the difficulty that happens one hour after start, do you always need to play one hour before you can actually play?
Count this as a warm up. If you want challenge now there's plenty of hard "solo" (nearly everything) content.
Although I wish it wouldn't really take an hour for enemies to become tough enough0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.
We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.
Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.
... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.
Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.
I mean, that is exactly what it is, a dungeon with random bosses. From what they showed, outside of a few random quests, it isn't some deep lore dive.
And the reset is very clearly because this is leaderboard content, hence the inability to use the armorer. They don't want players changing characters or stepping away to resupply or craft new gear. You're supposed to survive in one go on the character you went in on.
But Maelstrom doesn't reset and neither does Vateshran Hallows, and they have leaderboards as well. If you leave after a small grace period for disconnects, it should disqualify you from the leaderboard and hide your score. But I don't see why the whole dungeon should need to reset for that reason.
Edited by spartaxoxo on September 15, 2023 5:04PM6 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bigger issue is no difficulty levels and no ability start at the level you want.
If you can fight against the difficulty that happens one hour after start, do you always need to play one hour before you can actually play?
They said that some of the better duos in internal playtests could breeze through the first couple Arcs in about 10 minutes each. I don't really see much issue with that to be honest. I mean even Vet Vateshran or Maelstrom start out pretty easy.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on September 15, 2023 5:03PM3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »Hopefully on a server disconnect you will have a grace time to log back in without reset.
We need something better than a grace time.
Current way just doesn't make sense. Once novelty wears off, the uniqueness of EA will quickly go down. There are so many reasons why you need/have to quit the game or change the character, with your progress going down the drain.
Say, you wanted to play EA, but you are hungry and out to lunch. Bummer, your content is lost. So make sure you are nicely fed, your phone is turned off, you did the toilet and have water drinks beside you before entering EA.
... Unless EA is just a small random arena with random bosses where you will go from time to time, spend 20-30mins and go out. If that's the case, this logout reset makes sense, but the value of EA is then seriously low with a huge missed opportunity.
Imagine EA having hidden discoveries deeper down, new areas, maybe even reaching Dwemer stuff? I really wish EA would pull of nicely and add a unique playing to this game. And roguelike dungeon generation is a step in the right direction.
I mean, that is exactly what it is, a dungeon with random bosses. From what they showed, outside of a few random quests, it isn't some deep lore dive.
And the reset is very clearly because this is leaderboard content, hence the inability to use the armorer. They don't want players changing characters or stepping away to resupply or craft new gear. You're supposed to survive in one go on the character you went in on.
But Maelstrom doesn't reset and neither does Vateshran Hallows, and they have leaderboards as well. If you leave after a small grace period for disconnects, it should disqualify you from the leaderboard and hide your score. But I don't see why the whole dungeon should need to reset for that reason.
Those two are not group dungeons. This one is. And I am fairly certain that Vateshran resets if you are out of it for long enough, or swap characters as the OP suggested they would want to do.0 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »The Endless Archive has a leaderboard attached to it, so yes, it should reset when you log out. Otherwise, there'd be a million and a half ways to cheese your score.
what ways exactly?
Most obviously - you can't use the armorer in the EA. If you could leave or relog, you'd be able to swap builds mid-run, which is something they explicitly said they don't want you doing.
It is easy enough to code the restriction that only lets you return with the same configuration you had when you exited. [snip]
The more I read about this EA it sounds less and less like an endless dungeon in the concept of FF XIV or WoW and more like the same old ESO arena with new lipstick.
[edited for minor bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 15, 2023 6:49PM4
