The new class sets need a lot of work (many need a complete redesign from scratch).

Turtle_Bot

So... As per the title,

The sets

Sorc gets a delayed proc set that's another summon (because screens aren't crowded enough with sorc summons already apparently) that's weaker than most other proc sets already in the game. On top of this, the monoliths do nothing when there's only 1 of them up, since they deal their damage via the link beam (at the rate of once per 2 seconds, so it's not even a unique tick rate or something) oh and for the skill lines DoTs to proc this set, its on the initial hit or 5th tick only so to proc this set from using a DoT (hurricane, which will be for 80%+ of the fight) it takes a full 5 seconds before the set does anything at all or 2 seconds if you use hurricane + lightning flood...

DK gets a single set that grants BOTH major AND minor heroism OR a unique stacking 14% healing + shielding done by casting their already broken corrosive armor ultimate, or casting their commonly used fossilize or ash cloud abilities. This is absurdly broken, DK was abusing this double heroism with oakensoul to no end and you bring it back in a single set?

NB gets a unique damage and healing buff of their siphoning skills of up to 34% for their siphoning skills which includes, burst heal, bomb ultimate, single target sticky DoT and their sustain (which is also a HoT). Great for those who wanted swallow soul buffed I guess, horrible for overall game balance though...

Necromancer gets a way to make their corpse generation more mobile and some additional buffs made available (finally), just wish it had a shorter cooldown or separate cooldowns per corpse consuming ability to allow for double tethers or tether + another or something.

Warden gets improved healing and tanking capabilities (not that it really needed these), but it fits the lines theme

Plar gets an interesting option for additional (mobile) sustain and damage (although that downside looks very harsh)

Arcanist gets even more support options to buff allies with, not that it needed more group support options.

Ratings:

Sorc: D- tier set, does nothing to help the class function as a class instead of as a proc carrier or HA build, not even sure why this set was made, it's worse than most existing proc sets, especially if ZOS does their "sorc balance" parse on it and makes it so that the beams cannot stack their damage (which is looking like they have already done based on the sets description).

DK: S+ tier set, F tier idea, this is completely broken, DK is the one class that should not have easy access to both major and minor heroism, nothing else to say for this. Expect the return of perma corrosive DKs that were everywhere in the oakensoul patch unless this set is completely redesigned from scratch.

NB: A+ to S tier set, This is is going to give NB far too much healing in PvP for what is supposed to be an evasive burst class with paper defenses while also buffing their bomb builds (tether) and giving the class a strong DoT with immobilize pressure to go with its already overtuned burst capabilities. PvE NB didn't need this set and this just further buffs PvP NB.

Necro: S tier idea, A- tier implementation. The idea behind this set is amazing, it does so much to fix the issue of abilities like tethers and the mechanics of corpses which in turn gives better use of cros DoT passive. It could use a shorter cooldown (or make it so the cooldown is unique to each ability instead of shared across all corpse consuming abilities) to allow for more flexible usage of the set.

Warden: B+ tier set, it's a strong set, provides additional buffs for tanking and healing, but not really what warden needed.

Plar: A tier idea, B tier implementation, the idea is very interesting and on the right track, giving the class some needed damage and mobile sustain, but the inevitable downside of losing half of your max magicka when the max stacks wears off is going to be rough.

Arcanist: A tier set, I don't think arcanist needed more support capabilities, but its not exactly a bad set either granting some nice group buffs.

Please ZOS, just go back to the drawing board for the DK, Sorc and NB sets, they need a complete redesign from the ground up. The rest of the sets seem like they will be fine after a few tweaks as their base ideas are definitely solid for the skill lines they support even if they aren't exactly what the classes need, but the sets for DK and NB are going to create huge balance issues and the sorc set is yet another useless proc set designed around the sorcs lightning theme (anyone remember storm-cursed?)

TaSheen

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Turtle_Bot

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

propertyOfUndefined

Wait... So necros will be able to eat themselves?

heh...

KlauthWarthog

I do appreciate the implication that the Necro class is so dead, it literally counts as a corpse.

TaSheen

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

fizzylu

TaSheen wrote: »

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

They said they'll be adding more sets, so each class will have three sets later on.

Also, yes. These sets are terribly balanced and the sorcerers is truly useless. Necromancers is nice, but it seems like something that should simply be built into the class.... not tied to a set. Would be nice if Zenimax would stop using sets as a crutch and actually fix their classes, make full-on combat skill lines again, and maybe even expand upon some old ones. I mean, seriously.... I have way more skill points than I would ever actually need at this point, don't even know why they bother including skyshards in the new zones anymore.

Alphawolf01A

TaSheen wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

I thought I heard 1 of them say that there are 21 sets. 7 classes with a set for each of the 3 skill trees.

TaSheen

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

I thought I heard 1 of them say that there are 21 sets. 7 classes with a set for each of the 3 skill trees.

Well.... let's hope so.

RaptorRodeoGod

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

I thought I heard 1 of them say that there are 21 sets. 7 classes with a set for each of the 3 skill trees.

There will eventually be one for each class tree. They're starting with one per class for now

TaSheen

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

I thought I heard 1 of them say that there are 21 sets. 7 classes with a set for each of the 3 skill trees.

There will eventually be one for each class tree. They're starting with one per class for now

Well, from my POV, it would have been nice if they'd started with warden pet DPS. *sigh*

TechMaybeHic

How is Templar A or B. Who wants to cast a dawns wrath ability 50 times just to get a nova for enemies to move out of?

Alphawolf01A

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Warden mains. All DPS. Set is useless for me. I don't play any of the other classes enough to care.

Yeah, warden didn't need this set, but at least it fits and buffs the lines theme and usage. My guess is that the animal companions set will be for warden dps.

I didn't see anything about an "animal compainions" set. I'm not able to spend the data to watch the entire stream....

I thought I heard 1 of them say that there are 21 sets. 7 classes with a set for each of the 3 skill trees.

There will eventually be one for each class tree. They're starting with one per class for now

AH!, Thank you! I wasn't completely sure, so I am rewatching the show now. Thank you for clarifying.

Remiem

And of course the DK set is broken and the Necro set is trash...
Not like necro players already have these buffs with Vigor and Temporal Guard/Totem, if there are no reworks of the corpse consuming abilities in the patch then the only use I could see from it is bypassing the need for 3 corpses for the Animate Blastbones ult and that's only if the "Beautiful Corpse" buff works with it and if it counts as 3 corpses and not 1... so 2 big ifs.
Meanwhile DKs get ridiculous ult gen and a massive healing bonus that was totally needed because 20k coags were not enough...

Turtle_Bot

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

How is Templar A or B. Who wants to cast a dawns wrath ability 50 times just to get a nova for enemies to move out of?

the idea is good, more damage (something plar mains have been complaining about for a while now) and more mobile sustain.
Like I said it does need some work though (reduce the penalty and reduce the stack count required or make it grant a stack on dealing any damage instead of per cast), that's why its not S.

TechMaybeHic

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

How is Templar A or B. Who wants to cast a dawns wrath ability 50 times just to get a nova for enemies to move out of?

the idea is good, more damage (something plar mains have been complaining about for a while now) and more mobile sustain.
Like I said it does need some work though (reduce the penalty and reduce the stack count required or make it grant a stack on dealing any damage instead of per cast), that's why its not S.

With dawns wrath being mostly DOTs, per tick of damage would be better, but with it being Nova that is lightly used in pvp and only when coordinating at that; having it proc randomly is near worthless even if they change it to per tick because enemies just move out of it

As is; sets an F. Faster ramp up; it would be a C at best.

Edit: scratch that. Will still be an F so long as it uses half your mag.

CameraBeardThePirate

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't actually know if the Necro set turns you into a mobile corpse, and won't know until PTS. It might just drop a corpse down when you consume it.

And even still, I'm not convinced sacrificing an entire 5 piece (with defensive lines on a class that lacks offense) for the ability to make 1 (not both) of your tethers mobile is worth it at all.

Not to mention that other (better) abilities like Deaden Pain will just be consuming your self-corpse anyways.

Tannus15

The DK set is madness. Massive amounts of ult for free for the class that benefits most from their ult.

Everything else is bad.
The thing that feels lacking from your analysis @Turtle_Bot is that to run any of these sets you need to ditch something else. Sure, the nightblade set buffs their siphon healing, but "at what cost!?!". What 5pc set are you ditching to gain this benefit?

What I really want to see in the patch notes is some sort of Dev commentary about what the purpose or niche each set is meant to fill so we can provide feed back for that purpose.

What content is it aimed at?
What role is this meant to be for?

@ZOS_Kevin we're flying blind here without some sort of context

fizzylu

Tannus15 wrote: »

The DK set is madness. Massive amounts of ult for free for the class that benefits most from their ult.

Everything else is bad.
The thing that feels lacking from your analysis @Turtle_Bot is that to run any of these sets you need to ditch something else. Sure, the nightblade set buffs their siphon healing, but "at what cost!?!". What 5pc set are you ditching to gain this benefit?

I'm sure some warden and arcanist healers could find a use for their class sets, but the dk set is the only one truly worth running.... which is extra funny considering it's clearly the outlier and imo broken beyond belief from a PvP viewpoint.

I also find it even more funny that the dk set is the one with pretty much zero drawbacks and the simplest requirement to get the set to proc. Just cast a single earthen heart ability and you can get practically 100% uptime of the buffs the set brings. They might as well remove the earthen heart ability requirement and make the set grant the stances simply from being equipped if they're going to make it this easy, it's legit just fluff to make the set seem tied to a specific skill tree of the class.

Turtle_Bot

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't actually know if the Necro set turns you into a mobile corpse, and won't know until PTS. It might just drop a corpse down when you consume it.

And even still, I'm not convinced sacrificing an entire 5 piece (with defensive lines on a class that lacks offense) for the ability to make 1 (not both) of your tethers mobile is worth it at all.

Not to mention that other (better) abilities like Deaden Pain will just be consuming your self-corpse anyways.

The set states that when casting a bone tyrant ability it applies the buff called "beautiful corpse" to you.
It also states that when casting an ability that consumes a corpse, it consumes the beautiful corpse buff, treating you as a corpse.

Unless I am mistaken, this set is basically saying cast a bone tyrant ability then cast an ability that consumes a corpse to treat the caster as a corpse for the purpose of applying the secondary effects of that ability that consumes a corpse.

The only thing that needs to be tested is if it works with the tethers (since they technically don't consume the corpse, but they do target a corpse to create their beam). If it does work with the tethers (restoring tether + shocking siphon) it will be a really cool way to incorperate those abilities into the necro kit since they would essentially become and AoE HoT/DoT around the cro allowing them to remain active in mobile fights or around LoS.

Turtle_Bot

Tannus15 wrote: »

The DK set is madness. Massive amounts of ult for free for the class that benefits most from their ult.

Everything else is bad.
The thing that feels lacking from your analysis @Turtle_Bot is that to run any of these sets you need to ditch something else. Sure, the nightblade set buffs their siphon healing, but "at what cost!?!". What 5pc set are you ditching to gain this benefit?

What I really want to see in the patch notes is some sort of Dev commentary about what the purpose or niche each set is meant to fill so we can provide feed back for that purpose.

What content is it aimed at?
What role is this meant to be for?

@ZOS_Kevin we're flying blind here without some sort of context

NB isn't giving much up at all (in PvP at least).

It's currently the only class able to viably run a non-proc based build in high end PvP and still compete against the current meta proc builds that are hard carrying most of the other classes (even DK are mostly running the same masters vate maarselok proc build now).

The likely option would be NB swaps out night mothers gaze and finds room for ele sus on their bar. Which to get up to 34% unique stacking damage/healing buff on their class burst heal, class AoE ultimate (the center piece of their bomb builds), class sustain (siphoning strikes is also a HoT) and the class sticky DoT (that has a free immobilize) which would make it viable, sounds very much worth running over NMG.

In PvE it would be different for sure and I don't see NB running this set there, but this set doesn't exactly help NB in PvE (outside of buffing crippling grasp) which is the only spot NB needs any help in this game.

cro is giving up a set, but it depends on how the cro set works, if it works how I think it might, it could be beneficial to drop that extra set to make the class easier and more reliable to play and get more use out of more class abilities. I'd still like to see the cooldown reduced (or made it so that any corpse consuming ability cast while the buff is active treats the necro as the corpse) and/or give it a slight power increase to that ability since its using a special corpse for that ability.

Warden and arcanist sets just feel like they don't want to change those classes much, so the sets are fine for support builds but not going to be used outside of that.

DK is (as we've both said), just completely broken and absurdly overpowered unless there are huge changes coming to corrosive and DK in general alongside this set.

Plar is a strange case, the idea of buffing damage and sustain on plar sounds amazing for the class, but the implementation is not great. For plar they might even run the set depending how it ends up on release, since all plars run beam as it is and most run PotL as well. Lastly solar barrage might be worth looking at, especially if the set were to grant stacks on each damage instance instead of per cast.

Sorc is the only set that looks like they just gave the class a generic proc set (but worse) because they can't (or won't) design something for the class that doesn't involve the pets or they're doing a huge rework of the class alongside this set (this is even less likely than changes happening to balance corrosive).

Urzigurumash

Right, on Cro I slot Vigor, Temp Guard, and run Deaden Pain as my only consumer, which makes the set sound quite underwhelming... but if it allows you to use Detonating Siphon something like Deep Breath, it would be really fun on melee builds.

On the other hand the DK set reads like a must slot for any and all DK builds.

(PVP only comment)

Turtle_Bot

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Right, on Cro I slot Vigor, Temp Guard, and run Deaden Pain as my only consumer, which makes the set sound quite underwhelming... but if it allows you to use Detonating Siphon something like Deep Breath, it would be really fun on melee builds.

On the other hand the DK set reads like a must slot for any and all DK builds.

(PVP only comment)

yep, this is why I'm hoping the set works with the tethers, that would make it an interesting option for sure with those.

LukosCreyden

I mean, the sorc set sounds cool from an aesthetic point of view, at least.

As for necro, STILL NO MAJOR SORCERY OR BRUTALITY LMAO.

amig186

Sure hope it's not just 1 set per class, I was looking forward to something damage oriented for my necro.

Katzenzunge

They quite literally said it's gonna be three sets for each skill line of a class, they'll just release one of each sets when the archive is going live.
So no, it will not be just one set per class.

Æxiled

Thanks for summing up the sets.

The idea is great and will bring in more variation but the choice of sets they're releasing seems to be very odd for some reason... As in, shouldn't they release the "most attractive" sets for each class first in order to make people want to run endless archive forever and ever?

Except maybe for necro and DK nothing else seems to be very appealing.

Guess it has to be tested first.

Jierdanit

The DK set is beyond broken and needs to be seriously nerfed before it goes live.

Otherwise all of PvP is going to be just DKs running that set.
Major and Minor Heroism permanently on a class that relies heavily on ultimate and has the by far strongest ult in the game is such a horrible idea for anyone who knows anything about balance in this game.

PS: ZOS please remove ult regen while in corrosive.

TechMaybeHic

Yeah...

DK: Use 1 earthen heart ability and get 2 powerfull buffs for 20 seconds.

Templar: Use 50! Dawns Wrath abilities to buff recovery over time, then have a nova randomly go off at 50 on a target that probably already moved out of the area, and lose half your magicka.

Gee. Can't wait to have basically the first proc set to cost resources, and at a rate at least double the highest costing ability in the game and probably more.

TechMaybeHic

Jierdanit wrote: »

The DK set is beyond broken and needs to be seriously nerfed before it goes live.

Otherwise all of PvP is going to be just DKs running that set.
Major and Minor Heroism permanently on a class that relies heavily on ultimate and has the by far strongest ult in the game is such a horrible idea for anyone who knows anything about balance in this game.

PS: ZOS please remove ult regen while in corrosive.

Even without corrosive; DKs get massive sustain and a burst heal from just using ultimate. Not like we need a buffed shield on dragon leap being practically a spammable, rcovering resources and healing all at once. Would be entertaining to play, jumping all over; but it would be ridiculous

Jierdanit

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

The DK set is beyond broken and needs to be seriously nerfed before it goes live.

Otherwise all of PvP is going to be just DKs running that set.
Major and Minor Heroism permanently on a class that relies heavily on ultimate and has the by far strongest ult in the game is such a horrible idea for anyone who knows anything about balance in this game.

PS: ZOS please remove ult regen while in corrosive.

Even without corrosive; DKs get massive sustain and a burst heal from just using ultimate. Not like we need a buffed shield on dragon leap being practically a spammable, rcovering resources and healing all at once. Would be entertaining to play, jumping all over; but it would be ridiculous

Yeah DK should absolutely never be able to reliably access Major Heroism, because it makes the class way too strong.

I mean Daedric Trickery is a random chance to get Major Heroism and you will very rarely have more than like 30-40% uptime on it in longer fights and its still used by tons of DKs because the buff is so strong.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]