Why real Tank and real Healer population are so shortage?

AvalonRanger

Why real Tank and real Healer population are so shortage?

Simple question. Tell me the reason of this.

the1andonlyskwex

Because most people find those roles to be less fun than DD.

the1andonlyskwex

There are also just enough dungeons and group compositions that don't really need them for dishonest/selfish people to rationalize queueing as fakes.

tincanman

Other than a quick random vet very occasionally to remind themselves why they stick with guild/friend groups they mostly don't bother pugging. Same with real damage-dealers.

You'll find them happily playing and grouping with guild-mates and friends for various content.

Calastir

All my DD characters have a restoration staff+abilities on their back bar so they can switch to the healer role whenever the group requires it.

I wish more players did this. Even my companions are better healers and tanks than most fakes out there.

Fake tanks; at least slot 1 good taunt.
Fake healers; at least slot 1 good heal.

endgamesmug

I find them to be particularly boring and suitably miserable on tank with a low dps group, so unfortunately i just have no interest in performing those roles in these times .If the nature of combat progression was better leading up to dungeons, there might be progress and better enjoyment in that space.

valenwood_vegan

Because many experienced players eventually join guilds and develop social connections and grow beyond the random group finder, grouping with friends and guildies for a better and non-random experience.

Giraffon

Tanks get no love these days. The only place they are even needed are vet DLC dungeons, and if you pug those, some players don't even understand what a good job you are doing and then you get crap for getting killed when in fact your death was caused by other players not knowing the mechanics of the boss.

So to sum it up, in order to be a good tank, you really need to be an experienced player. Experienced players don't actually NEED to run dungeons as they already have all the gear they need.

Probably something like that with healers too I bet, but I can't speak for that role as I rarely play it.

Soarora

You have to be a DPS to do overland. As such, most people are going to be DPS and may not even try heal or tank. Even if they do, they might not like it. I love tanking while others somehow think it’s boring. I don’t so much like healing because you have to make up for other peoples mistakes. Both supports you have to deal with low DPS and people running out of heals/buffs which is incredibly annoying while as a DPS you can possibly carry the group.

TybaltKaine

Because the game doesn't incentivize playing as a tank or healer in overland content at all. There is never a reason to learn those roles for the average player, as everything is "hit it until it's dead" or "fetch this" as far as overland content is concerned.

There is no "Healer School" or "Tank School" just like there aren't any proper tutorials for classes.

Until the introductory sequence is rebuilt from the ground up to teach players how to play the game beyond "these buttons do this, have fun" it won't get any better.

Braffin

The short answer: Fake dds are keeping them away.

chessalavakia_ESO

The shortage of healers and tank players creates a larger demand for them in pre-made groups which expands the shortage in queues which in turn increases the appeal of faking as you get a significantly shorter queue time.

As a damage dealer, you have significantly more variety in the weapons and abilities that you can use than as a tank or a healer. As a healer my choices are my class heals, restoration staff abilities, and a small number of heal abilities in other lines. The healing abilities also aren't necessarily that balanced when it comes to providing value which makes the variety drop further.

When it comes to both gearing and ultimate abilities you can end up in the position of feeling you need to run buffing related things rather than something more fun as a tank or healer.

In much of ESO's content significant portions of the damage come from mechanics. As a result, when you are healing you are frequently left with either nothing to do or healing someone that messed up and neither of which really feels great. When you are tanking, you can feel like you need to know every mechanic in advance so that you don't mess up getting yourself or other players killed. Needless to say, as the game has a ton of dungeons which makes all of that memorization into a pain. If you've actually done the work of memorizing the mechanics you can get away with faking in many cases because if you play it right many of the mechanics don't actually hurt.

Damage in ESO is high enough that you can kill things before your limited ability to heal or tank can become problematic for you as a fake. In some cases, if you do enough damage the mechanics don't even play out. This can allow the players that are faking it to have faster and sometimes even cleaner runs.

Necrotech_Master

Soarora wrote: »

You have to be a DPS to do overland. As such, most people are going to be DPS and may not even try heal or tank. Even if they do, they might not like it. I love tanking while others somehow think it’s boring. I don’t so much like healing because you have to make up for other peoples mistakes. Both supports you have to deal with low DPS and people running out of heals/buffs which is incredibly annoying while as a DPS you can possibly carry the group.

i do most of my overland stuff with my main tank, that avg about 8k dps so im not 1 shotting everything lol

unless its a boss, it doesnt really take any more time to kill them

if im like farming or something, then yes ill use my dps for faster kills, but if im doing quests i want to you know, enjoy it (though with how easy overland is, even my tank toon can kill stuff almost too fast with even a modest rotation and a few dps skills)

OBJnoob

I've got two thoughts on this:

1) Having played WoW and EverQuest, it seems to me like those games were very reliant on healing and tanking. I can't pretend to remember from so long ago... But whether it was mechanics or just sheer number of enemies, tanking and healing was actually challenging. And I don't mean to insult any ESO tanks or healers-- I'm not trying to make you feel unneeded or saying it doesn't take skill to be good-- I'm just talking about how much difficulty can literally be skipped in ESO if your group has enough dps. Which makes DPS more important-- which makes everyone want to be it. If you doubt me... Then ask yourself why, other than taunting and bringing stuff close together, the BEST thing a tank can do is wear sets that buff someone else's DPS. Seems to me in WoW and EQ keeping yourself alive was the main goal... Because it was actually hard.

2) I forgot my 2nd point while writing the 1st. Teehee.

AcadianPaladin

Tanks. Most unpopular role. Overland damage is tedious because the S&B skill line is so anemic due to PvP. At least one S&B skill should damage scale off health instead of mag/stam. A PvE tank should be able to use S&B and full tank setup and still get around 10k damage to make overland comfortable. It is also a thankless role. Too many bosses either ignore taunt, or are programmed to briefly ignore it to kill a squishy (dps). Then the tank gets blamed for letting it happen. The tank is also supposed to lead the group based on a solid knowledge of the dungeon - that is a lot of pressure on a tank that many players do not want. Most groups fail to follow the tank and don't allow the tank to go in first, grab aggro, gather mobs up before they charge in and turn things into a disorganized mess. Tanks are totally reliant upon killing damage from dd's and sometimes that is lacking, making the tank's job harder.

Healers. Second most unpopular role. The reason healers are more common than tanks is because healers can do moderate damage as part of their support as well as make overland content reasonably comfortable. One key to this is the wonderful feature that 'spell damage' boosts both damage and healing. Often there is talk of removing heals from this stat and making some new stat that boost heals only. That would certainly cause an exodus from the role and render healers as rare as tanks. One frustration for healers is excessive boss burst damage - you can't heal one shots, yet the healer's job is to keep players alive and they feel they have failed when players die. More sustained damage in lieu of one shots in dungeons would be a much better way to make the healer's role both more important and more doable.

AvalonRanger

There're dissonance theory here. My main character is real tank, and my healer is also real build.
But....80% of PUG DPS is fake.

ESO is chaos.

MidniteOwl1913

As a real healer every time I see a thread about fake healers where other players justify faking by saying "you don't need healers in most dungeons", "all you need is orbs and you are good enough", "fake DPS are *real* problem why shouldn't I queue as a healer?", "I really prefer 3 DPS, the dungeons just go faster".

It makes me question the time and effort I put into developing my build and practicing my skills.
That and speed runner just take all the joy out of running a healer in dungeons for me.

valenwood_vegan

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

It makes me question the time and effort I put into developing my build and practicing my skills.

Find yourself a good group of folks running difficult content - you'll be appreciated!

phaneub17_ESO

You could give it a try yourself, be a full dedicated tank or healer for a month.

SpiritKitten

I main a healer and people saying we aren't needed in dungeons is contrary to my actual experience. For most dungeons I heal on front bar and dps on backbar, and I do need to heal more often than you might think. But for trials, depends on the trial. Sometimes I go a full-heals build, other times a more dps/buffing build.

Blood_again

The question supposes you run a lot of content with random groups

People who run endgame content often have endgame-ready characters for many roles.
It is not a problem to switch to Healer or MT/OT if a group of your friends need that.
So I guess your question is not about them

For random groups, how often did you see people thanked for tanking and healing?
How often people blamed Tank or Healer for their own fails?
How often Tank or Healer hear that they'd better do damage and group doesn't need them?

After 4 years of playing support I switched to mostly DD for random groups and PUG. Surprise, as a DD I was thanked for tanking more often than as a Tank
Tank for randoms - only if I need fast queue for vet pledge. Fair work for fair profit.
Meanwile I still heal and tank for my guild mates and friends. That worth it.

TheDarkRuler

Because quests tend to scale to require dps instead of tanking/healing.
I dont want to re-skill to DD just to farm Skill Points on my tanks/heals.

AvalonRanger

Actually say, I've never seen better healer than my character in random PUG dungeon team.（T_T)
And 80% of PUG tank is mostly fake.

AzuraFan

I created a character once with the intention of using them for tanking. I quickly gave up when it took ages to kill anything in overland. As others have said already, it's not fun. I also don't want the pressure in groups that comes from being a tank. I'd rather pew, pew, pew. It's more fun all around.

code65536

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Overland damage is tedious because the S&B skill line is so anemic due to PvP.

The weapon choice is not the problem. The problem is the attribute allocation, gear sets, enchantments, skill morphs, etc. Weapon choice? Nah, you can just use your class spammable with any weapon.

Armory has made life a lot easier, though. I have 22 trial-ready tanks (across multiple accounts/servers), and none of them are in tank setup unless they're in a dungeon or trial. I swap to a tank setup when I start a dungeon or trial. And then swap back to a non-tank setup when I'm done. So I no longer have to deal with the "it takes forever to kill the things guarding this skyshard" problem.

AvalonRanger

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Overland damage is tedious because the S&B skill line is so anemic due to PvP.

I always go new DLC land with my main tank character, and most of extremely good.

Because, can do most of overland boss by solo, even some of group trial boss.
Just can't do few of boss who has health regeneration skill though.

So, I don't think DD is general solution. Only good for solo trial.

AvalonRanger

Recently, I notice some logical conclusion about shortage of real tank and healer role.

Unfortunately, major random DD queue players are not so experienced DD.
(Experienced DD players will not use random PUG team anyway.)
Most of those people are just speed farmer, or just people who want to be carried by skillful players.

Simply say, "they" think about DD just like "those role are not so responsible for the group mission.
So we can join easily." So the people try to avoid taking tank or healer role.

But I think those mind set are wrong. DD is also important for the some dungeon mech like the "
Banishing Cell2". I've seen several times DD failure at the last boss in the BS2.

Marcus684

I think it boils down to 1 simple principle: DD is a selfish role and tank/healer are cooperative roles, and people are selfish by nature.

DD only has to focus on maximizing their DPS and paying attention to mechanics. The only time they even need to pay attention to others is when someone needs a rez, and most can't even be bothered to do that.

Tank is mostly self-focused but somewhat cooperative, with the need to grab aggro away from squishies.

Healer is the truly cooperative role with having to keep everyone alive and buffed.

Until you find a way to change human nature, or somehow adjust the way roles are played, DDs will always outnumber tanks and healers.