procs nerfed when?
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209
Overamera
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The combination of Dragon's appetite, Masters dual wield and Maarselok is way to strong at the moment. Having played this myself the damage/pressure you can put out and easily avoid damage with streak is way to strong of a combination. It seems to be the only way of enjoying PvP right now for solo gameplay. This because Cyrodiil, IC and BGS are filled with procsorcs and if you play any other class you are at a disadvantage because of the damage procsorc can put out and streak away. You can run same setup on other classes but don't have streak to carry your defense.
Edited by Overamera on August 18, 2023 11:07AM 5
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Waugh✭✭✭Go play no CP compaign [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 15, 2023 4:40PM10 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wouldn't slotting a purge solve this issue? Or is your real complaint Sorcs streaking away? I agree that builds with good disengagement ability (streak, cloak, sprint) can be frustrating to fight, but if you can simply purge their damage they're no longer a danger and become just an annoyance. I learned this years ago during the dual-wield bleed build meta.3 -
Overamera✭✭✭✭Wouldn't slotting a purge solve this issue? Or is your real complaint Sorcs streaking away? I agree that builds with good disengagement ability (streak, cloak, sprint) can be frustrating to fight, but if you can simply purge their damage they're no longer a danger and become just an annoyance. I learned this years ago during the dual-wield bleed build meta.
Clense cp is only once every 24 sec. It only takes a few secs to reapply all the negative effects. The pressure from these procs are still to high for it to be as effective as you make it out to be.1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arcanists are the real imba atm. 1vsX is back for sure. Crazy heals, crazy damage shields, crazy aoe and single target damage. Sorcs are total meh compared to tentacle class.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭An nerf sorc tread.
This one is only here to farm Insightful and awesome, please support hard working Khajiit.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.36 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
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Clense cp is only once every 24 sec. It only takes a few secs to reapply all the negative effects. The pressure from these procs are still to high for it to be as effective as you make it out to be.
I don't mean relying on the CP cleanse, but using an on-demand cleanse like Purge from the Support skill line. With the proliferation of DoTs, status effects, and siege damage I've reslotted this on many of my PvP toons. It's still a bit risky due to Plaguebreak but I don't ball up anyway so that risk is low.4 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't mean relying on the CP cleanse, but using an on-demand cleanse like Purge from the Support skill line. With the proliferation of DoTs, status effects, and siege damage I've reslotted this on many of my PvP toons. It's still a bit risky due to Plaguebreak but I don't ball up anyway so that risk is low.
Even still, you are recommending a 5k mag ability to combat a 3k stam cost. Less when they land the heavy attack for Maarselok. Elemental susceptibility included, you also likely have to purge twice or more.
And it's not a sorc thing we should focus on. It's the efficiency of those procs with very little cool down8 -
Janni✭✭✭✭So let's take stock here. Some players complain that there is no diversity in the game and that it is always the same 2 classes with the same 3 sets dominating and then when someone shows up with something new and it catches on those same players usually just change their target of complaint with the exact same argument. It's almost as if there are actually a lot of options out there right now but everyone is so afraid of bruising their ego if they lose a fight they are too scared to try something different.
The word meta sure gets used a lot in this game but I don't know how many people actually know what it means. It doesn't mean what is strongest. It refers to a mindset of countering what is currently popular. When it catches on then the meta shifts balance and the cycle begins again. And when build diversity is high, you'll probably find yourself feeling weaker than usual because there are now a lot more things out there than your build might have originally accounted for.Edited by Janni on August 15, 2023 5:48PM5 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
Even still, you are recommending a 5k mag ability to combat a 3k stam cost. Less when they land the heavy attack for Maarselok. Elemental susceptibility included, you also likely have to purge twice or more.
And it's not a sorc thing we should focus on. It's the efficiency of those procs with very little cool down
Yeah we do have 2 separate issues here, DoTs vs. counters and sorc mobility complaints. The power of DoTs seems to rise and fall as ZOS introduces new proc sets and then nerfs them when everyone realizes how strong they can be and uses them, while streaking sorcs have been an endless source of complaints since day 1.
I've noticed a huge gap in the effectiveness of streak between the best sorcs and everyone else. Good sorcs seem to be able to easily and endlessly streak in and out of range and still have the power to blow you up instantly, while my sorc can't seem to streak when I need him to and he ends up either stunned and dead or quickly out of magicka. I PvP with all classes and specs and have to admit that magsorc has always been my weakest.
As for the procs listed I guess I'll defer to others more knowledgable about them. I don't use them and don't recall ever seeing them in my death recap.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc is an excellent Proc Conveyor for the same reason it's an excellent Werewolf, strong passives which don't depend on the slotting or activation of skills, leaving slots and GCDs for proc activating skills and other buffs.
As for the proc stack meta, as has been described by others in more detail in recent threads:
Master DW should scale
Monster sets besides Maarselok need buffed
Ele Sus needs nerfed
Accordingly no need to nerf Sorc. Anything done to curtail Proc Sorc destroys proper StamSorcs and WolfSorcs. Address those 3 concerns above and things balance out, imho. Nerfing Streak alone might put ProcSorc on Mist Fom - no change but a weakening of class identity. This is the exact same caution I've raised about addressing the OP Corrosive - if nothing else were done DKs might slot Vamp Ult and still be OP but with less class identity. That's not to say Streak is on par with Corrosive, just a similar consideration.
Edited by Urzigurumash on August 15, 2023 6:27PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast11 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Arcanists are the real imba atm. 1vsX is back for sure. Crazy heals, crazy damage shields, crazy aoe and single target damage. Sorcs are total meh compared to tentacle class.
What crazy heals? Runemend isn't a burst heal, and half the time it heals somebody else. and impervious runeward needs 3 crux to heal or it won't heal.Edited by LittlePinkDot on August 15, 2023 7:45PM1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Sorc is an excellent Proc Conveyor for the same reason it's an excellent Werewolf, strong passives which don't depend on the slotting or activation of skills, leaving slots and GCDs for proc activating skills and other buffs.
As for the proc stack meta, as has been described by others in more detail in recent threads:
Master DW should scale
Monster sets besides Maarselok need buffed
Ele Sus needs nerfed
Accordingly no need to nerf Sorc. Anything done to curtail Proc Sorc destroys proper StamSorcs and WolfSorcs. Address those 3 concerns above and things balance out, imho. Nerfing Streak alone might put ProcSorc on Mist Fom - no change but a weakening of class identity. This is the exact same caution I've raised about addressing the OP Corrosive - if nothing else were done DKs might slot Vamp Ult and still be OP but with less class identity. That's not to say Streak is on par with Corrosive, just a similar consideration.
Sorc needs a buff. Just nerf the proc sets.11 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
Even still, you are recommending a 5k mag ability to combat a 3k stam cost. Less when they land the heavy attack for Maarselok. Elemental susceptibility included, you also likely have to purge twice or more.
And it's not a sorc thing we should focus on. It's the efficiency of those procs with very little cool down
I think the purge thing has more merit than you're giving it credit for. It isn't so much about who wins the sustain war or how they can re-apply pretty easily.
It's about momentarily stopping the pressure and applying a boatload of your own pressure. Because if there's one thing sorcs don't do well it's heal. And if there's one thing someone wearing dragons appetite , master DW, and Vate Destro also can't do it's heal.
I would think the method to combat this kind of procsorc would be to go all out on offense against them. And since they're primarily healing through crit surge, purging is going to do a lot for you.
But all of that academia and theorizing aside-- nerf the sets, obviously, not the sorcs.3 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
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I think the purge thing has more merit than you're giving it credit for. It isn't so much about who wins the sustain war or how they can re-apply pretty easily.
It's about momentarily stopping the pressure and applying a boatload of your own pressure. Because if there's one thing sorcs don't do well it's heal. And if there's one thing someone wearing dragons appetite , master DW, and Vate Destro also can't do it's heal.
I would think the method to combat this kind of procsorc would be to go all out on offense against them. And since they're primarily healing through crit surge, purging is going to do a lot for you.
But all of that academia and theorizing aside-- nerf the sets, obviously, not the sorcs.
I'm running purge. It takes 2 or sometimes 3 ER to clear everything. And 1 free GCD of elemental susceptibility to be right back.
It's not just sets, but I agree that's it's not sorcs. Their deliver method and disenfage is just favorable. A Arcanist might be worse as they just stand there eating damage while they let the procs work.1 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
I'm running purge. It takes 2 or sometimes 3 ER to clear everything. And 1 free GCD of elemental susceptibility to be right back.
It's not just sets, but I agree that's it's not sorcs. Their deliver method and disenfage is just favorable. A Arcanist might be worse as they just stand there eating damage while they let the procs work.
Fair enough. I know the sets are overperforming and I'm not suggesting purging is a fix-all. I'd just rather have a purge than not have one. It's helpful.0 -
Janni✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »
Sorc needs a buff. Just nerf the proc sets.
Except when classes are heavily dependent on sets nerfing them hurts that class. Remember no-proc and how everyone said it exposed how utterly useless dragonknights were without them (at the time) and how overwhelmingly powerful magsorcs were compared to every other class (again at the time).2 -
BetterAtChess✭✭✭Not all proc sets are overperforming, but there are a few that are problematic in PVP and not just on sorc. e.g. Maarselok and Way of fire, they have massive pressure (bugged?) that leave you scrambling to stay alive with no offensive window. But these builds are very strong on other classes too e.g. DK.
Edited by BetterAtChess on August 17, 2023 10:53PM1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nerf procsorcs, but only after you nerf procdks, procblades, procdens and procarcs.
Or, here's a crazy idea, how about slightly rebalancing the overpowered proc sets to bring them into line instead of blaming the class that's forced to run proc sets to carry it since the class kit is so mediocre outside of 1 ability and at the same time, buff the class's that are forced into using those proc sets to play the game so that its no longer forced to run those overpowered proc sets.
@Overamera might want to change the title, it's quite misleading when the issue is with the procsets themselves and not the class (sorc) that's using them since other classes are using them just as effectively, if not better.4 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's discussing a classes skills in PvP.
Thank you for your understanding0 -
Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »@Overamera might want to change the title, it's quite misleading when the issue is with the procsets themselves and not the class (sorc) that's using them since other classes are using them just as effectively, if not better.
To late
As you can see ZOS has decided that this thread is about "classes skills in PvP" (e.g. sorc OP) and not the sets PC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD
For a no-pet sorc since 2016 the PN of U46 sound like: "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line eso as a whole."0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »Greetings,
After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's discussing a classes skills in PvP.
Thank you for your understanding
Except it's not discussing class abilities, it's discussing the procsets
- Master's Dual Wield Arena weapons
- Maarselok monster set
- 5 piece set Dragon's Apatite
I hope you can understand this, because this misdirected outrage towards a class that is already mediocre outside of specific combinations of proc sets is what has been plaguing sorcerer for literally years now and why the class is forced to crutch on proc stacking and pet builds and why there was such a drastic reverse direction back in U35 when your team drastically over-nerfed sorcerers for the exact same reason as we are seeing here (massively overperforming proc sets).5 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
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To late
As you can see ZOS has decided that this thread is about "classes skills in PvP" (e.g. sorc OP) and not the sets
Typical, watch as U41 brings more nerfs to sorcerer that makes U35 overnerfing of the class look like buffs because players can't tell the difference between classes being strong due to their class kits (DK/NB/Arcanist/Warden) and being "strong" due to carried by proc sets (sorc/plar/cro).....
Been the same issue with sorc for years now because nobody outside of a select few players actually bothers to look at or play the class as a class outside of running these busted proc builds (in PvP) or pet/HA builds (in PvE) where the proc sets (or HA sets) hard carry it or its played as a super casual overland/questing build where it doesn't matter how good or bad the class actually is.
🙄🙄🙄5 -
Overamera✭✭✭✭I do not want sorc nerfed just these pTurtle_Bot wrote: »Nerf procsorcs, but only after you nerf procdks, procblades, procdens and procarcs.
Or, here's a crazy idea, how about slightly rebalancing the overpowered proc sets to bring them into line instead of blaming the class that's forced to run proc sets to carry it since the class kit is so mediocre outside of 1 ability and at the same time, buff the class's that are forced into using those proc sets to play the game so that its no longer forced to run those overpowered proc sets.
@Overamera might want to change the title, it's quite misleading when the issue is with the procsets themselves and not the class (sorc) that's using them since other classes are using them just as effectively, if not better.
Will do good sir.1 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭Masters Dual Wield is extremely unbalanced/overpowered.
That’s the primary problem.
Please ZOS, play PvP and you’ll see Every Class Crutching on Masters DW front/Vateshran back.
Please adjust Masters DW asap.
There’s not much fun left.3 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SandandStars wrote: »Masters Dual Wield is extremely unbalanced/overpowered.
That’s the primary problem.
Please ZOS, play PvP and you’ll see Every Class Crutching on Masters DW front/Vateshran back.
Please adjust Masters DW asap.
There’s not much fun left.
It's also the fact that EleSus does WAY too much for no resource cost.6 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭Purge is irrelevant considering how easy it is to reapply the proc dots: eventually even the beefiest plar will run out of mag.
sorcs are fine per se but they synergize way to well with the current proc sets. Leave sorcs alone but Definity tune down the procs. If you are a good PvP player and you are using procs you will not struggle even when they get nerfed.5
