PTE: Making Progress Harder

dcrush

At least half of the time when I do a random dungeon and the group disbands, I can’t even press X to leave the instance. Nothing happens. PTE or leaving through the door (if it’s anywhere near the last boss) are the only options. So now if I’m stuck in combat for whatever reason (and I’m honestly surprised some people seem to think you only get stuck in combat when aggrod mobs were not killed, makes me wonder how much they’ve played the game) i guess I just afk while the timer runs out? I know it’s not a long timer but it’s a waste of time regardless.

What a terrible solution. I wonder if whoever came up with this actually plays the game on a live server.

Aka_

dcrush wrote: »

At least half of the time when I do a random dungeon and the group disbands, I can’t even press X to leave the instance. Nothing happens. PTE or leaving through the door (if it’s anywhere near the last boss) are the only options. So now if I’m stuck in combat for whatever reason (and I’m honestly surprised some people seem to think you only get stuck in combat when aggrod mobs were not killed, makes me wonder how much they’ve played the game) i guess I just afk while the timer runs out? I know it’s not a long timer but it’s a waste of time regardless.

What a terrible solution. I wonder if whoever came up with this actually plays the game on a live server.

I can guarantee you they don't. Otherwise they would understand the importance and frustration the combat bug has on any typical play session. Then they would push it further up their priority and respond to us about it. We haven't heard anything about this years' long bug. Now, their decision to stop us from leaving instances during combat is a humiliating decision for them, in my view.

KlauthWarthog

They are adding a check to something that did not use to have one. I am quite curious about the many ways this check will fail, and lead to awkward, hilarious or game breaking situations when exposed to a minimal amount of stress on the live servers.

Rkindaleft

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

I am not doubting there is a bug with that specific quest or any other instances. I am saying that is not a reason to not fix this bug about leaving an instance in combat. Put in reports on the other instances for them to be fixed. If enough details can be given such that the devs can reproduce the bug, it can usually be fixed.

that would require the devs to fix the in combat bugs in general throughout the game (pve and pvp)

ideally you should exit combat when you go through that door in volenfell for example, as nothing can get to you there, but the root cause issue is the "in combat" state and when it should or should not be applied, which should be fixed generally, not in this 1 instance where its a noticeable problem

Agree to disagree. I agree with you that the real issues should be fixed. I disagree that not fixing this exploited bug is the answer.

People are ONLY (bar a very small minority) using this "exploit" so to speak, as a workaround for bugs, which nearly all of them are widely known and have existed in the game for several years. If those were fixed, there would be no reason to ever utilize it apart from what its intended purpose is.

Off the top of my head and about 90 seconds of thinking what this affects due to work time constraints, this QoL feature is very important for a few reasons:

1) You can leave Volenfell without disbanding the group or running back through the dungeon to leave at the exit. Without doing that, with this "fix" it is impossible, and that takes far longer (ironically, which a patch designed for QoL is ruining.)
2) Mobs that happen to get stuck in the ground or walls, this can occur in basically every dungeon in the game. You can't attack them and can't leave instance now.
3) Causing your character to get stuck in unresurrectable positions in Sunspire, where your character can die and get stuck in the cliff or the the ice wall due to another bug, so you either don't fight with them for the remainder of the fight, you wipe, or alternatively what you did before, the player who died just left instance. This is particularly common for players who get wing slapped.
4) There are dungeons such as Scalecaller or Moon Hunter Keep that have buggy mobs. The stranglers that come up in Moon Hunter to attack you go back into the "sleep" form and can't be attacked or killed, but you remain in combat with them for a significant amount of time due to bugs. Scalecaller for some reason even if you kill everything and finish the dungeon you are still in combat, just because?
5) This is an awful change in general but it's much more inconvenient for console players because they don't have addons/auto invite, so the 15-20 seconds it takes everyone to leave instance and reset in trial trifecta progression is SO much faster than disbanding and inviting everyone back (can take a couple of minutes.)

They never should just "remove" QoL because probably less than 100 players across all platforms and servers are using it to cheese vitality in leaderboard scores. If they had just made it that leaving instance dropped your vitality instead this never would've been an issue to begin with.

Aka_

As a side note, I'm not the only one who notices that the PTS section gets the least amount of developer engagement, right? Like, what's the point of this?

UnholyFrijole

Aka_ wrote: »

As a side note, I'm not the only one who notices that the PTS section gets the least amount of developer engagement, right? Like, what's the point of this?

Lol you're right.

Imo unless dev can fix the stuck in combat bug for pve and pvp, then they are just harming their player base further.

In pvp, let us be able to mount in combat. You still take damage etc, make the time to mount a little longer, idk. Just let us freaking mount.

Pve wise, there are so many bugs I'd be here for months. I mostly have used pte in trial and dungeon prog groups. Something that happens decently frequently is upon a wipe everyone is dead and no one can rez. And that's because someone is still in combat. This can take a lot of time to figure out who if you even do. We basically take turns porting out. And if you're on last boss or anywhere toward the end, for progression groups and those learning that could mean resetting and entire instance which would suck. And this has happened in older and newer content. As far as I know no death is ruined upon the death- but let's say someone dies in execute and you don't rez you'll get slightly higher score but not the no death achievement. (Been there a couple times and it sucks 😞)

And if you're going for a trifecta,
someone porting out isn't what you want. I believe that means the person won't get the achievement. And guess what you'll be doing even if the rest of the group gets it? Likely still progging it to get it for the one guy that ported out? And not mentioned now you're down a person which could mean a wipe anyway.

Fix the combat bug first, please.

NeuroticPixels

PLEASE fix the combat bug before the update! Especially for group dungeons!

CrashTest

Ugh I hope this doesn't go live. Talk about being out of touch with what's actually happening in the game.

Aka_

CrashTest wrote: »

Ugh I hope this doesn't go live. Talk about being out of touch with what's actually happening in the game.

It's going live. They haven't responded, they haven't bothered to talk to us about this, they haven't tried to fix the combat bug that's been around nearly as long as the game has. I don't get the point of a PTE if all the worst qualities of the proposed update go through without any explanation, interaction, or communication.

For a quality of life and bug fixing update, they failed tremendously.

BahometZ

If this proceeds it will have a devastating effect on player morale, we already play through countless bugs and features that chip away at enjoyment.
I have lost track of the errors that continue to effect content that has been out for years, and now we will have an extra irritation to contend with.
Given that every EVERY thing they change becomes buggier you know this will introduce new problems with instances throughout all game modes. I have lost trust in their ability to execute code changes without new problems.
We still deal with dropped block, dropped taunt, after changes were made to both elements.
Even content that supposedly works as intended doesn't work consistently. Do they care? No, let's change destro staffs just to shuffle the deck again

ankerous

This feels like it was another moment of let's slap a bandage on the problem and walk away without actually helping fix the problem and expecting it to heal on its own. Kind of on brand at this point though, no offense intended. What is the point of the PTS and these forums if they ignore feedback about some of the most controversial changes that make it to the main server? Why even ask for feedback at this point? That's what I don't get.