PTE: Making Progress Harder

Aka_

Have we talked about this change to porting out of an instance while in combat? Because I feel like it's under the radar. I have no idea why this change is being implemented, given that there has been a combat bug for years upon years that has been left unfixed and will continue to remain that way (even after the "QoL Bug fixing update"). When trying to progress in trials for the trifecta, groups need to exit the instance quite often. Taking this away is absurd in my mind. We will have to wait for everyone to die to reset the instance, adding unnecessary time and frustration to something that wasn't an issue. This might further alienate the end game hopefuls from this game.

My question to devs is this: What's the thought behind this? In your eyes, what makes this a Quality of Life addition? I'm genuinely curious and concerned why this is something to focus on, rather than the combat bug itself or... Anything else, really.

LunaFlora

what's pte?

Aka_

LunaFlora wrote: »

what's pte?

It's a reference to the three keys you press to leave an instance on PC

LunaFlora

ah well it would be easier to know what your post is about if the title actually said what it's about, not everyone plays on pc nor uses mouse and keyboard when on pc

Soarora

LunaFlora wrote: »

ah well it would be easier to know what your post is about if the title actually said what it's about, not everyone plays on pc nor uses mouse and keyboard when on pc

On PC we usually call it PTE. Like, most of the time we call it PTE. Didn’t even register until a couple months ago for me that PTE = the buttons you press haha.

Regardless, I think I know why they’re removing it but it doesn’t make sense. You can PTE and port back in to avoid needing to be ressed. On paper, this is a problem as it avoids a core part of death. However, it realistically doesn’t work very well. In dungeons, you’ll just end up behind in the fight and probably wipe anyway. In trials, it’d be faster if a DPS resses you. The only real trouble I could see is when it comes to trifectas but I’m pretty sure the deaths count on death not on resurrect. You may get a better score by porting out and porting back in but you’d get an even better score by not dying in the first place.

It’s a very out of touch change. PTE’ing is inconvenient and a last resort. I wonder if it’d still be doable by kicking someone and then readding them to group for cases such as stuck in combat but everyone is dead… Kynes Aegis I’m looking at you.

BahometZ

I would love to know the reason too. It makes no sense from a player perspective.
If there were fewer bugs, fewer traps, fewer bad experiences to be had in dungeons and trials I could understand maybe why they're putting resources into a change that no one asked for.
But given the current state of the game, this is madness.

Necrotech_Master

BahometZ wrote: »

I would love to know the reason too. It makes no sense from a player perspective.
If there were fewer bugs, fewer traps, fewer bad experiences to be had in dungeons and trials I could understand maybe why they're putting resources into a change that no one asked for.
But given the current state of the game, this is madness.

if i recall right, i think it has something to do with cheesing no death achievements

i think some were using it to PTE if they were about to die to avoid a death in the instance

Soarora

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I would love to know the reason too. It makes no sense from a player perspective.
If there were fewer bugs, fewer traps, fewer bad experiences to be had in dungeons and trials I could understand maybe why they're putting resources into a change that no one asked for.
But given the current state of the game, this is madness.

if i recall right, i think it has something to do with cheesing no death achievements

i think some were using it to PTE if they were about to die to avoid a death in the instance

I thought leaving the instance disqualified you from no death. If that is not the case then it should be made the case.

FantasticFreddie

Soarora wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I would love to know the reason too. It makes no sense from a player perspective.
If there were fewer bugs, fewer traps, fewer bad experiences to be had in dungeons and trials I could understand maybe why they're putting resources into a change that no one asked for.
But given the current state of the game, this is madness.

if i recall right, i think it has something to do with cheesing no death achievements

i think some were using it to PTE if they were about to die to avoid a death in the instance

I thought leaving the instance disqualified you from no death. If that is not the case then it should be made the case.

This would be the sensible and reasonable change. Or, they could fix the stuck in combat bug....

Necrotech_Master

Soarora wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I would love to know the reason too. It makes no sense from a player perspective.
If there were fewer bugs, fewer traps, fewer bad experiences to be had in dungeons and trials I could understand maybe why they're putting resources into a change that no one asked for.
But given the current state of the game, this is madness.

if i recall right, i think it has something to do with cheesing no death achievements

i think some were using it to PTE if they were about to die to avoid a death in the instance

I thought leaving the instance disqualified you from no death. If that is not the case then it should be made the case.

im not sure, i havent tested it myself so its kind of a guess, but thats the only reason i could see using PTE during combat

kringled_1

The GH group I was in last year used it extensively while in combat, just to speed up the ability to reset the instance and start fresh when someone died. Waiting for a full wipe can be quite a bit more time.

GlassHalfFull

While in a vet dlc dungeon and doing the quest, the last person did not show up for me to turn the quest in. I had to use PTE, and when I came back the quest giver was there so I could turn in the quest, get the loot and skill point.

With this change, I'd have to wait until I found three guildies do the vet dlc dungeon completely over again.

I don't see the benefit in making this change.

Aka_

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

Kappachi

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

While in a vet dlc dungeon and doing the quest, the last person did not show up for me to turn the quest in. I had to use PTE, and when I came back the quest giver was there so I could turn in the quest, get the loot and skill point.

With this change, I'd have to wait until I found three guildies do the vet dlc dungeon completely over again.

I don't see the benefit in making this change.

you wouldn't be affected by this change. you can still do that. only being locked in combat stops this.

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

Necrotech_Master

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Aislinna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

Necrotech_Master

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

Aislinna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

Necrotech_Master

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

Panderbander

There's more than a few instances of enemy NPCs getting aggro'd but unreachable because they spawned in/were knocked back into/clipped through the geometry. Acting like it doesn't happen and it's always the player's fault is disingenuous at best.

Aislinna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

Aislinna

Panderbander wrote: »

There's more than a few instances of enemy NPCs getting aggro'd but unreachable because they spawned in/were knocked back into/clipped through the geometry. Acting like it doesn't happen and it's always the player's fault is disingenuous at best.

If this is directed to me, I never said it was the player's fault. If an NPC has been aggro'd and is unreachable to be killed and the player can not get out of it's range, that is a bug with that specific instance and should be reported as such. Wanting an overall bug that is exploited kept in place is not the answer.

Necrotech_Master

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

Aislinna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

I am not doubting there is a bug with that specific quest or any other instances. I am saying that is not a reason to not fix this bug about leaving an instance in combat. Put in reports on the other instances for them to be fixed. If enough details can be given such that the devs can reproduce the bug, it can usually be fixed.

Necrotech_Master

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

I am not doubting there is a bug with that specific quest or any other instances. I am saying that is not a reason to not fix this bug about leaving an instance in combat. Put in reports on the other instances for them to be fixed. If enough details can be given such that the devs can reproduce the bug, it can usually be fixed.

that would require the devs to fix the in combat bugs in general throughout the game (pve and pvp)

ideally you should exit combat when you go through that door in volenfell for example, as nothing can get to you there, but the root cause issue is the "in combat" state and when it should or should not be applied, which should be fixed generally, not in this 1 instance where its a noticeable problem

Aislinna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

I am not doubting there is a bug with that specific quest or any other instances. I am saying that is not a reason to not fix this bug about leaving an instance in combat. Put in reports on the other instances for them to be fixed. If enough details can be given such that the devs can reproduce the bug, it can usually be fixed.

that would require the devs to fix the in combat bugs in general throughout the game (pve and pvp)

ideally you should exit combat when you go through that door in volenfell for example, as nothing can get to you there, but the root cause issue is the "in combat" state and when it should or should not be applied, which should be fixed generally, not in this 1 instance where its a noticeable problem

Agree to disagree. I agree with you that the real issues should be fixed. I disagree that not fixing this exploited bug is the answer.

Ragnarok0130

There are valid reasons to PTE in a trial such as when someone gets wing slapped and you can't revive them because they were knocked to an inaccessible part of the map like behind the ice wall on Lokke - saw this happen a few times this year. This change just makes the existing ZoS bugs all the more frustrating making it a bad change IMO.

Necrotech_Master

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

I knew they wouldn't care to respond nor listen, but stuff like this? Stuff that has no explanation, a large impact on the game, and no effort towards talking with us about it? That contributes to eroded trust.

erodes trust how? the specific fix only pertains to people who were exploiting it while in combat. you can still use it all you want outside of combat.

its more with all the problems being stuck in combat

such as the end of volenfell, after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest, PTE is the only option right now unless you want to logout or walk back to the entrance of the dungeon, because porting wont work

you dont "choose" to be stuck in combat, and if your in a dungeon, PTE is the only way to fix it since you cant teleport

Using an exploit is not the only way to progress in the game.

IMO you did choose to be stuck in combat because you chose to not kill the aggro'd mobs and chose not to run past the mob's leash range.That's not a bug, that's how it's intended to work.

As for no-death trial groups having to take 10-20 seconds to have a group wipe before they can exit, reset and restart, that's how it goes. You have to wait for the entire party to die before you can reset anyways, whether they all exit at the same time or exit one by one.

As for dying out of range where a party member can't revive you, that's the RNG breaks. The dead will just have to lie there in the never-ending AOE pool and wait. Or the group can call a wipe, which will end combat. Exploiting a bug is not necessary.

I haven't seen a legitimate reason why this bug of being able to exit while in combat should not be fixed.

the example in my post is 100% a legitimate reason, you will always get stuck in combat at the end of volenfell if your doing the quest, even if you kill everything in the dungeon

i never mentioned anything about pulling mobs and not killing them

"after the npc messes with the orb and the skeletons start spawning, you are stuck in combat even after you make it out of the door and turned in the quest"

and you didn't mention killing them or getting out of their range, just making it out of the door, which to me implies you engaged with the skeletons, even if not willingly. How are you in combat if you didn't pull them?

But my apologies for mis-interpreting your statement.

have you actually done the quest in that dungeon? (serious question not intended to be offensive or anything)

1. you will be put in combat the instant they start spawning, regardless if you actively engage them or not (and generally they will start attacking you immediately even if you didnt cast or do anything)
2. they spawn indefinitely, you cannot kill them to "end combat" and even the quest npc tells you to "run and exit through the door" at which point you can turn in the quest

that quest for that dungeon has always done that, but if you are not running the quest, this is a non-issue (as the skeletons only spawn if you or someone in the group is doing the quest)

thats one of the more obvious instances i know of, ive also seen people note after the final boss of scalecaller peak has a similar issue where people can be stuck in combat (im assuming they had to kill everything up to that point to get through the multiple doors to the final boss, but its been a little while since im run this dungeon)

I assume you are taking about the Vollenfell dungeon quest for a skillpoint, the quest that can only be done once per character. Yes, I did that quest a long time ago and I don't recall if this was an issue or not and I can't do that quest again and no, I'm not making a new character to try it. I noticed that you said you could walk all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon to exit, are you in combat the entire way or only until you leave the range of the mobs? Either way, this is a bug with that specific quest that should be fixed, not keeping a general bug in place that is being exploited. I recommend starting a bug report for that specific Vollenfell quest and give all the details you can for the dev team.

yes, i am referring to the dungeon quest

and yes, you will remain in combat until you die (if you decided to skip any mobs without aggroing them) or leave the dungeon

and yes, this issue has been in there since launch, pretty sure its already been reported multiple times by multiple people over the years (i dont remember if i submitted anything, but its very obvious if anyone is doing the quest)

ive done the quest on 11 characters, and ive helped more people through the quest outside of that (as i noted this will happen if anyone in the group is doing the quest, even 1 person), but the issue is not noticeable since they added the ability to PTE

and also as noted, this is not the only dungeon that people can get stuck in combat (or even the only PVE instance that you can get stuck in combat)

I am not doubting there is a bug with that specific quest or any other instances. I am saying that is not a reason to not fix this bug about leaving an instance in combat. Put in reports on the other instances for them to be fixed. If enough details can be given such that the devs can reproduce the bug, it can usually be fixed.

that would require the devs to fix the in combat bugs in general throughout the game (pve and pvp)

ideally you should exit combat when you go through that door in volenfell for example, as nothing can get to you there, but the root cause issue is the "in combat" state and when it should or should not be applied, which should be fixed generally, not in this 1 instance where its a noticeable problem

Agree to disagree. I agree with you that the real issues should be fixed. I disagree that not fixing this exploited bug is the answer.

well as i said, then they need to fix the "stuck in combat" bugs everywhere

this change is a downgrade in QoL, not an upgrade, not a fix for anything

CameraBeardThePirate

The irony of this change is that they aren't applying it to IC, a place where this is actually being exploited.

But of course, logic dictates that we should stop people doing it in a PvE environment where it doesn't actually hurt anyone but allow them to continue to be able to exploit it in IC to avoid losing TelVar. Great Quality of Life change.

Aka_

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The irony of this change is that they aren't applying it to IC, a place where this is actually being exploited.

But of course, logic dictates that we should stop people doing it in a PvE environment where it doesn't actually hurt anyone but allow them to continue to be able to exploit it in IC to avoid losing TelVar. Great Quality of Life change.

While I entirely agree they need to fix this bug as it is not the intention of the zone, PVP has so, so, so many problems that I find it hard to see an argument that indicates that ZoS is interested in punishing the PvE community over the PVP one. Plus, that's an entirely different method code-wise of leaving the zone versus an instance, but I do agree. This change is just overall bad across the board. But they won't comment on it.

BahometZ

People defending changes like this are the worst. Justifying this based on some unverifiable rumours of exploiting, even though the "fix" will have negative effects on everybody in the game. They proceed with this, and watch the avalanche of complaints by people who haven't been paying attention. Travelling out of an instance to cheese some no death achievement... what do I care? It's a video game. I'm getting my achievements legit, you do you. And most dungeons are so buggy right now, why not actually fix them if your content is so sacred.

There isn't even any proof of these exploits. Someone post a video please, instead of all this bizarre speculation.