For the love of Mannimarco, give necromancer Major Sorcery this PTS cycle.

CameraBeardThePirate

The class needs a lot of help, but it is absolutely ridiculous something as simple as this hasnt been done yet to alleviate the class' troubles in the meantime.

Twohothardware

It is pretty bad how this class doesn't even have access to basic major buffs like major sorcery or prophecy. I'm not exactly sure the reasoning for it either because Nightblade now has access to like a dozen major buffs.

LunaFlora

probably not happening
it's already the fourth week of update 39 on pts and there's nearly always only five weeks of patches and the fifth doesn't usually have many big things

Twohothardware

None of these patches this PTS have had any big things to be honest. Bug fixes are great but this would of been a solid time to fix some more class issues since we're not getting DLC.

rabidmyers

and brutality and a prophecy/savagery buff

Utt of the Freezing Tomb

yes its painfull to see another sorc/dk buff and no necromancer changes

IncultaWolf

I agree. Maybe next pts cycle we'll get it finally, a basic buff every other class in the game has

Ankael07

Either a major rework or nothing. Slapping on a few major buffs will not save the class.

At the very least fixing many of it's bugs would be a good start. Heres a list of the bugs;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638114/where-are-the-bugfixes-for-necromancer

BasP

That would've been a nice start for sure. It's strange that a Nightblade for example can get both Major Resolve and Major Berserk just from its spammable, and its source of Major Brutality/Sorcery grants Minor Courage too (I know that class still underperforms in PvE, but that's besides the point). Meanwhile, a Necromancer lacks any basic buff.

Edit: I think I'd prefer it if the buff would be added to one of these skills:

- Blastones: After casting Blastbones you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 10 seconds
- Skeletal Mage: While slotted on either bar you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery

OtarTheMad

Putting buffs like sorcery, savagery etc on the necro abilities aren’t going to make them magically slottable, at least in PvP. Maybe in PvE it helps but I don’t have issues with necro in PvE, I can get done most of the content. The stuff I can’t do is on me and my brain basically, so not even Necros problem. It PvP is another story, Magcro is really bad there. Most of my bar space is filled with other skill lines.

The offensive abilities need to be redone from the ground up basically and any changes should try to keep both PvE and PvP in mind.

A lot of players ask for brutality/sorcery on blastbones or skeletal summons and prophecy/savagery on the other but Skeletal summons targeting and meh damage will still keep it on the bench and BB will still get confused and have inconsistent damage and pathing.

kyatos_binarini

Urzigurumash

Ankael07 wrote: »

Either a major rework or nothing. Slapping on a few major buffs will not save the class.

At the very least fixing many of it's bugs would be a good start. Heres a list of the bugs;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638114/where-are-the-bugfixes-for-necromancer

People used to say the same thing about DK you know, that it needed an "exhaustive rework". I still think the Major Damage/Crit buffs on Gravelord skills would go a long way to boost Necro - by way of increasing access to Death Knell and Dismember.

Anyhow in an interesting perversion of lore, to play a Necromancer in PvP today is an honorable pursuit which should command tremendous esteem. (Outside of ball group ult dumping of course)

OtarTheMad

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Either a major rework or nothing. Slapping on a few major buffs will not save the class.

At the very least fixing many of it's bugs would be a good start. Heres a list of the bugs;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638114/where-are-the-bugfixes-for-necromancer

People used to say the same thing about DK you know, that it needed an "exhaustive rework". I still think the Major Damage/Crit buffs on Gravelord skills would go a long way to boost Necro - by way of increasing access to Death Knell and Dismember.

Anyhow in an interesting perversion of lore, to play a Necromancer in PvP today is an honorable pursuit which should command tremendous esteem. (Outside of ball group ult dumping of course)

I don’t know about a long way, just for me I wouldn’t change up my bar slots if Necros were given the major damage and crit buffs because I already get those from other places and in PvE I get done all the content I need. The only thing I would never do is vet trials and HM anything. Necros work fine in PvE because NPC’s are just as dumb as your pets. However, you make the abilities and corpse system work better and make them smoother and easier… that helps every game mode.

Plus DKs did get some overhauls. Inferno got changed completely, that might not even be the original ability that DKs launched with in 2014. Ash cloud, stonefist, wings, chains. All of these got overhauls.

Jaimeh

Have an awesome, OP, just for that thread title

Urzigurumash

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Either a major rework or nothing. Slapping on a few major buffs will not save the class.

At the very least fixing many of it's bugs would be a good start. Heres a list of the bugs;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638114/where-are-the-bugfixes-for-necromancer

People used to say the same thing about DK you know, that it needed an "exhaustive rework". I still think the Major Damage/Crit buffs on Gravelord skills would go a long way to boost Necro - by way of increasing access to Death Knell and Dismember.

Anyhow in an interesting perversion of lore, to play a Necromancer in PvP today is an honorable pursuit which should command tremendous esteem. (Outside of ball group ult dumping of course)

I don’t know about a long way, just for me I wouldn’t change up my bar slots if Necros were given the major damage and crit buffs because I already get those from other places and in PvE I get done all the content I need. The only thing I would never do is vet trials and HM anything. Necros work fine in PvE because NPC’s are just as dumb as your pets. However, you make the abilities and corpse system work better and make them smoother and easier… that helps every game mode.

Plus DKs did get some overhauls. Inferno got changed completely, that might not even be the original ability that DKs launched with in 2014. Ash cloud, stonefist, wings, chains. All of these got overhauls.

For sure, it's a huge difference on these buffs between the 2 modes since Tripots, Immovables, Detects, etc are so OP in PvP. For many specs in PvP Damage/Crit Pots are a huge liability and especially in BGs since you can be back in the fight seconds after death and have to wait the entire potion cooldown to get those buffs back. Also, in PvE you guys are already slotting Siphon. Hardly anybody slots that in PvP - but we pretty much all slot Hunter or Magelight and Death Knell just doesn't do much for us.

And good point, DK had lots of big reworks over the years, especially in the first few years, and Necro has had very few after now 5 years. But DK went from bottom to top in PvP in 2021 mostly off just small changes to passive effects, i.e. duration of Seething Fury stacks, uncapping Battle Roar, etc.

Of course as I've written volumes about much of DK's present state in PvP is due to global changes, not all to class changes - and so must be true of Necro. The nerf to Defile and Vuln yes, the nerf to Mender was huge, but surely there are a number of non-class changes which have brought Necro so low... let us ponder...

NordSwordnBoard

Let's face it, the lessons learned from creating Necro were applied to Arcanist. Compare crux and corpses.

Ratzkifal

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

MindOfTheSwarm

Necromancers need a lot more than a simple buff adding to their kit.

MindOfTheSwarm

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

1000% agree with this thought process.

MindOfTheSwarm

What I think could help:

1. Change Poison Skull to Disease.
2. Change one morph of Graveyard to Disease.
3. Make one morph of Totem skill pulse Disease Damage every second.
4. Do something with Blastbones. Either replace completely or change how it functions so it’s smoother to use.
5. Make one morph of the ghost offensive and heal you based on damage dealt.
6. Make the Totem skill buff nearby minions instead of the grasp skill. It would be easier to aim and manage.

This could be a good start, but the class needs a deeper look at in general.

JerBearESO

They can slap major brutality/sorcery and major savagery/prophecy both onto skeleton summon base so its on both morphs, and still have power budget room to plop an additional buff on that very same skill and it would be fine. That's how far behind necromancer is.... They can literally chuck a ton of junk at it and it's fine...lol

DrNukenstein

Come on, this buff is core to being able to play the game.

Make it prebuffed, make it obtainable from casting a less than great damage skill, just give necros a way to get it in their class kit.

If you don't have any other ideas, just put it on scythe while you figure out a better way and a better way to make scythe good.

JerBearESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

The problem I see with this is that you should not be forced into a potion based solution. And the other means of getting these buffs all require skill slots which move Necro away from its own kit. We need to be able to generate corpses, but we have to slot non Necro skills for these buffs which squeezes out room for a truly Necro build....

I do agree Necro should focus on debuffs for it's playstyle, but no longer by trading away buffs which have become entirely core to all builds. They really should solve their lack of buffs through skeleton summon once and for all. With how they are overloading skills nowadays, having summon buff both majors it's crying for is absolutely fine

OtarTheMad

JerBearESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

The problem I see with this is that you should not be forced into a potion based solution. And the other means of getting these buffs all require skill slots which move Necro away from its own kit. We need to be able to generate corpses, but we have to slot non Necro skills for these buffs which squeezes out room for a truly Necro build....

I do agree Necro should focus on debuffs for its playstyle, but no longer by trading away buffs which have become entirely core to all builds. They really should solve their lack of buffs through skeleton summon once and for all. With how they are overloading skills nowadays, having summon buff both majors it's crying for is absolutely fine

Even with those buffs necro abilities will still be not worth slotting though in a majority of modes. You can’t work the corpse system in PvP, I only got 2 necro abilities on my bar in Cyrodiil which are resistant flesh and summoners armor. Every other ability comes from other skill lines and I am forced to do this because necro offensive abilities are either situational or trash.

Basically in PvE I am a Necromancer but every other game mode I am an Elementalist or a Proc Set Master.

Twohothardware

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

You can't expect your average casual player to use crafted potions on cooldown plus this removes your ability to use other potions that are better for situations like tri stat in PvP.

Major Brutality/Sorcery is one core buff that every class should have built in so they're on parity for damage without the use of potions.

OtarTheMad

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

You can't expect your average casual player to use crafted potions on cooldown plus this removes your ability to use other potions that are better for situations like tri stat in PvP.

Major Brutality/Sorcery is one core buff that every class should have built in so they're on parity for damage without the use of potions.

Well, players can also get brutality/sorcery from Mages Guild too, and at least with Degeneration you can control who gets hit with the dot and you get the mages guild passives too, plus Necros have a dot passive so that's good. Putting the buff on a useless ability like Skeletal summons, or a majority of the Necro offensive tool kit isn't helping its damage.

However, I am thinking that this discussion is pointless because ZOS will probably just throw those buffs on those abilities, and people will celebrate... for like 5 seconds and quickly realize that now instead of a crap ability... they just have a shiny crap ability. "But I have sorcery and prophecy now... why am I still getting owned in Cyrodiil"... because the necro offensive abilities are pure garbage in Cyro.

I can't wait to get my Magcro to AR 50 so I can retire them from PvP forever LoL. With all of the other classes, even with the negatives, the class is still fun, not the case with necro though.

Jierdanit

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

What I think could help:

1. Change Poison Skull to Disease.
2. Change one morph of Graveyard to Disease.
3. Make one morph of Totem skill pulse Disease Damage every second.
4. Do something with Blastbones. Either replace completely or change how it functions so it’s smoother to use.
5. Make one morph of the ghost offensive and heal you based on damage dealt.
6. Make the Totem skill buff nearby minions instead of the grasp skill. It would be easier to aim and manage.

This could be a good start, but the class needs a deeper look at in general.

1. and 2. would barely change anything.

3. And 6. Totem is going to stay basically useless in PvP no matter what you do to it, basically all ground based aoes are and a delayed ground stun that you can just walk out of is at the absolute bottom.

4. Agree, Blastbones need to either work properly or be changed (I'd rather ZOS just manages to get them to function properly, as the skill is a nice idea)

5. A skill like that is most likely not going to be great either. The only offensive skill that heals that isn't trash is Merciless, for most others the healing is just way too low.

Necro either needs some serious overhaul to change it into something new that can function properly or it needs access to stuff like Major Brut/Sorc and Prophecy/Savagery, though that is definitely not enough in total.

Twohothardware

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

You can't expect your average casual player to use crafted potions on cooldown plus this removes your ability to use other potions that are better for situations like tri stat in PvP.

Major Brutality/Sorcery is one core buff that every class should have built in so they're on parity for damage without the use of potions.

Well, players can also get brutality/sorcery from Mages Guild too, and at least with Degeneration you can control who gets hit with the dot and you get the mages guild passives too, plus Necros have a dot passive so that's good. Putting the buff on a useless ability like Skeletal summons, or a majority of the Necro offensive tool kit isn't helping its damage.

However, I am thinking that this discussion is pointless because ZOS will probably just throw those buffs on those abilities, and people will celebrate... for like 5 seconds and quickly realize that now instead of a crap ability... they just have a shiny crap ability. "But I have sorcery and prophecy now... why am I still getting owned in Cyrodiil"... because the necro offensive abilities are pure garbage in Cyro.

I can't wait to get my Magcro to AR 50 so I can retire them from PvP forever LoL. With all of the other classes, even with the negatives, the class is still fun, not the case with necro though.

Needing to slot Degeneration in PvE is a wasted slot and as a PvP'er I've always hated using that skill. It prevents you from being able to buff up prior to attacking someone and after all the nerfs to dots it's again a wasted skill slot.

There's no reason why Major Brutality/Sorcery shouldn't be built into the Necro class skill toolkit when every other class has it now.

OtarTheMad

Twohothardware wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

You can't expect your average casual player to use crafted potions on cooldown plus this removes your ability to use other potions that are better for situations like tri stat in PvP.

Major Brutality/Sorcery is one core buff that every class should have built in so they're on parity for damage without the use of potions.

Well, players can also get brutality/sorcery from Mages Guild too, and at least with Degeneration you can control who gets hit with the dot and you get the mages guild passives too, plus Necros have a dot passive so that's good. Putting the buff on a useless ability like Skeletal summons, or a majority of the Necro offensive tool kit isn't helping its damage.

However, I am thinking that this discussion is pointless because ZOS will probably just throw those buffs on those abilities, and people will celebrate... for like 5 seconds and quickly realize that now instead of a crap ability... they just have a shiny crap ability. "But I have sorcery and prophecy now... why am I still getting owned in Cyrodiil"... because the necro offensive abilities are pure garbage in Cyro.

I can't wait to get my Magcro to AR 50 so I can retire them from PvP forever LoL. With all of the other classes, even with the negatives, the class is still fun, not the case with necro though.

Needing to slot Degeneration in PvE is a wasted slot and as a PvP'er I've always hated using that skill. It prevents you from being able to buff up prior to attacking someone and after all the nerfs to dots it's again a wasted skill slot.

There's no reason why Major Brutality/Sorcery shouldn't be built into the Necro class skill toolkit when every other class has it now.

Well, like I said they will probably do that but whatever skill it is, if it’s an offensive ability… it still won’t be on my bar and doesn’t solve the issue with necro damage in PvP. Now if they want to put sorcery on something else in either support skill line or tank one and improve offensive abilities I’d be on board.

I don’t have degeneration on my bar in PvE though, I use potions for sorcery in that game mode.

JerBearESO

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

The problem I see with this is that you should not be forced into a potion based solution. And the other means of getting these buffs all require skill slots which move Necro away from its own kit. We need to be able to generate corpses, but we have to slot non Necro skills for these buffs which squeezes out room for a truly Necro build....

I do agree Necro should focus on debuffs for its playstyle, but no longer by trading away buffs which have become entirely core to all builds. They really should solve their lack of buffs through skeleton summon once and for all. With how they are overloading skills nowadays, having summon buff both majors it's crying for is absolutely fine

Even with those buffs necro abilities will still be not worth slotting though in a majority of modes. You can’t work the corpse system in PvP, I only got 2 necro abilities on my bar in Cyrodiil which are resistant flesh and summoners armor. Every other ability comes from other skill lines and I am forced to do this because necro offensive abilities are either situational or trash.

Basically in PvE I am a Necromancer but every other game mode I am an Elementalist or a Proc Set Master.

Putting those buffs on skeleton summon should free up 2 slots and give the crit to your backbar. That's the point

OtarTheMad

JerBearESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is not necessary. Drink a potion for that, like everybody else already does. Necromancers need to be buffed, but them lacking buff skills is intentional by design as the class focuses on debuffing enemies. That worked out well for them until ZOS decided to make major vulnerability something that regular item sets can provide.
Add more debuffs, be creative. We don't need every class to be exactly the same as every other. That would be boring.

The problem I see with this is that you should not be forced into a potion based solution. And the other means of getting these buffs all require skill slots which move Necro away from its own kit. We need to be able to generate corpses, but we have to slot non Necro skills for these buffs which squeezes out room for a truly Necro build....

I do agree Necro should focus on debuffs for its playstyle, but no longer by trading away buffs which have become entirely core to all builds. They really should solve their lack of buffs through skeleton summon once and for all. With how they are overloading skills nowadays, having summon buff both majors it's crying for is absolutely fine

Even with those buffs necro abilities will still be not worth slotting though in a majority of modes. You can’t work the corpse system in PvP, I only got 2 necro abilities on my bar in Cyrodiil which are resistant flesh and summoners armor. Every other ability comes from other skill lines and I am forced to do this because necro offensive abilities are either situational or trash.

Basically in PvE I am a Necromancer but every other game mode I am an Elementalist or a Proc Set Master.

Putting those buffs on skeleton summon should free up 2 slots and give the crit to your backbar. That's the point

If you are talking about front bar set and back bar set I don't do that... I just do the old 5pc/5pc/2pc set up... or subbing out a monster set pc for a mythic. I also don't use the summons in PvP.

This is what I am toying with in Cyro atm. I am doing Heartland Conqueror (going to switch this soon tho) and Dreugh King (seeing what having Sorcery/Brutality up at all times does since it's the 5pc bonus.) I mess with my bars and sets all the time so they could change tomorrow lol.

Bar 1
Force Pulse
Blighted Blastbones
Flame Reach (for knockback)
Caltrops (breach and slowing)
Camo Hunter
Ice Comet

Bar 2
Resistant Flesh
Race Against Time
Summoner's Armor
Vigor
Deaden Pain/LA Shield
Resto Ult