Destruction staves still underwhelming

Meldor_Greenwood

Hi, a couple of thoughts on destruction staves.
Destruction staves still struggle getting power on par with other weapon options. I suggest dropping lightnings staffs boost to channeled effects, and putting more power into the other passives, like making the Penetrating Magic affect all skills, the Destruction Expert passive doesn’t sound very destructive.

Jazraena

More Pen is probably a waste in PvE more often than not when paired with light armour.

But yes, agreed in general.

FirmamentOfStars

Maybe just gibe destruction staves an additional 200 base spell/weapon damage to be on par with 2h and dual wield weapons, which have an innate higher base damage.

exoib

I'm an avid staff user but currently the lack of any form of crit chance passive to destruction staves, increasing the status effect chances to 182% and changing the penetrating magic passive to all abilities are the things holding back destruction staves to not be used as front bar weapons in actual endgame content.

I'm in favor of the recent staff changes, but they are still not viable over something like daggers.Yes they have ranged advantage, but they also increased the melee damage range similar to DKs for all classes, which makes dw/2h weapons more viable for broader content, in addition to having more base light attack damage compared to staves. Bows are in a good spot after the changes and I want to see similar treatment for staves as well. Thank you

JerBearESO

The pen should be more usable for sure. And some crit would be nice. The inferno should get back a bit of that bonus damage to status effects as well, since it's a little behind lightning.

SoraJP

They said a couple patches back that ranged weapons should, and always will, perform slightly under melee due to the advantage of being at range.

Lumenn

SoraJP wrote: »

They said a couple patches back that ranged weapons should, and always will, perform slightly under melee due to the advantage of being at range.

Then I wish they'd add a dmg modifier if target is in Melee range for the classes/builds that don't fight at range. But daggers work I suppose.....

Dr_Con

if they add pen to it then they're going to take away other offensive capabilities.

JerBearESO

Dr_Con wrote: »

if they add pen to it then they're going to take away other offensive capabilities.

It already has pen but it's specific to staff skills. All they need to do with that is allow the pen to affect all skills, like be normal pen

kojou

If the penetration given by staves was universal, then it would at least be a stat you could build around. Currently I just ignore it in my penetration calculation.

The biggest problem with staves in PvE is the lack of a Crit chance buff. Penetration cap and crit damage cap are easy to reach in an organized group. After that players tend to get all the crit chance buff they can. Penetration, spell/weapon damage, and max stat buffs are pretty low in terms of priority.

The combat team could put a cap on crit chance at 60% or somewhere around there and then buff sources of it so that players could hit the cap relatively easy and then other buffs would be more relevant, but unless they do that crit chance will almost always be the most important buff.

the1andonlyskwex

SoraJP wrote: »

They said a couple patches back that ranged weapons should, and always will, perform slightly under melee due to the advantage of being at range.

The problem is that they double dip the difference. Ranged weapons have reduced Weapon/Spell Power AND ranged skills (including light and heavy attacks) have lower damage coefficients. One or the other would probably be fine, but both in combination is too punishing.

In particular, the reduced Weapon/Spell Power affects heals and melee attacks, which don't really benefit from the fact that your weapon happens to be ranged.

Belegnole

SoraJP wrote: »

They said a couple patches back that ranged weapons should, and always will, perform slightly under melee due to the advantage of being at range.

Funny how the pesky mobs always run straight in to melee rang to attack me. Good thing I have daggers on my front bar. So no, enemies do not stay at range. Well unless you're running backwards.

Foxtrot39

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Maybe just gibe destruction staves an additional 200 base spell/weapon damage to be on par with 2h and dual wield weapons, which have an innate higher base damage.

Reason for that is that you cant LA/HA or skill cast 3/4 of the weapon skills someone 20m away with a sword

Even bows have lower damage than staves because its ranged so its nerfed to "compensate" for that

Tyrant_Tim

Let’s go, yet another win for Destruction Staves!

BasP

That's definitely a nice change! It'll be interesting to test both staffs on different classes again.

grzes848909

Are staffs changes the only thing they are working on this update ? Very little changes both in week 3 and 4.

JerBearESO

Right direction? Certainly! Tho I do not think 12% to status effects is quite enough to build around. Could we consider whether that should be closer to 20%? Maybe 25%?

Anyone with good statistic skills feel free to test it out for us and see how it feels. Thanks!

Quethrosar

where are these build theories?
I would like to prep for this patch.

SandandStars

Any high end PvPrs seeing anyone doing well with a staff as a ranged magicka damage dealer?

I am not.

Xbox NA.

FirmamentOfStars

Sorc doing „well“ with staves as they always did. With the previous iteration of flame staff boosting status effects by 500, every class could be played easely as a ranged setup. With the current iteration, its again sorc doing well with lightning staves and thats it.

Btw Xbox might not be the best platform for any reference regarding PvP.

SandandStars

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

SoraJP

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

Bl4ckR3alm93

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

LittlePinkDot

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

SandandStars

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

So wouldnt this suggest console players are perhaps more skilled?

FirmamentOfStars

SandandStars wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

So wouldnt this suggest console players are perhaps more skilled?

Then why do all the console transfers do so badly against the top PvPers on PC?

the1andonlyskwex

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

So wouldnt this suggest console players are perhaps more skilled?

Then why do all the console transfers do so badly against the top PvPers on PC?

I suspect a lot of that is just a learning curve adapting to something different.

How do you think PC to console transfers go? My guess is that most people who try it quit before even getting to PvP because they can't deal with the lack of add-ons.

loveeso

Indeed, they are underwhelming. I won’t be talking about the ‘beginner friendly’ Arcanist and ZOS’s basically nuking HA builds but I just tested a few LA builds on the PTS and no way I’m switching to any staff from the daggers or the greatsword - they still reign supreme. Too bad, would be nice to have a choice. It was nice to at least see the lightning staves in content back when all the HA players joined in, there finally was some variety (missed infernos though), but now it’s just melee or green laser beams

StaticWave

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Maybe just gibe destruction staves an additional 200 base spell/weapon damage to be on par with 2h and dual wield weapons, which have an innate higher base damage.

No thanks. There are trade-offs for a reason. If this goes through then nobody will use melee weapons.

StaticWave

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

Lol no... What you're talking about is Miats addon, and Miats has stopped functioning like this 5 years ago.

StaticWave

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

is Xbox NA really so different from PC NA? genuinely curious, as I have no way to test this.

i see some pretty capable pvpers, but maybe I’m wrong? 🤔

addons

ESO on Xbox has addons like PC? I thought it was only on PC

Console doesn't have any cheating add ons to tell people when something has been fired at them.

So wouldnt this suggest console players are perhaps more skilled?

Then why do all the console transfers do so badly against the top PvPers on PC?

I suspect a lot of that is just a learning curve adapting to something different.

How do you think PC to console transfers go? My guess is that most people who try it quit before even getting to PvP because they can't deal with the lack of add-ons.

Yea, but it has nothing to do with the addons you're thinking about.

The most important addons on PC aren't even combat related, but more QoL addons. Things like Skyshards addon showing you the location without having to look them up, Dressing Room letting you save a build without having to go through your inventory, better UI that you can move around to your liking, better buff tracker, CMX showing data of your fights, etc.

None of these directly affect your PvP like some people think, but are QoL changes that SHOULD be in the game but ZOS were too lazy to implement them. Like for example, Action Duration Reminder is an old addon that shows how many seconds left on your abilities, and it took ZOS years to implement something similar to the base game. Or take Srendarr for example. You can choose what buffs/debuffs to display so that they don't clog up your screen like the vanilla buff tracker.

All of these improve the game for players and should part of the base game. ZOS is just refusing to implement it to the base game because the players are doing the work for them.