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Please make a third werewolf ultimate... The Werewolf Behemoth

RaikaNA
RaikaNA
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Or at least change the Werewolf Berserker to the Behemoth version... Perfect for tank-like style..

  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Do u know how large a Werewolf Behemoth is?
  • Udrath
    Udrath
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    I rather them make the two dire wolves with packleader behemoth werewolves instead
  • FantasticFreddie
    FantasticFreddie
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    Do u know how large a Werewolf Behemoth is?

    Yes.

    This is a fabulous idea, and I would have some SHENANIGANS with it
  • TybaltKaine
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    Behemoths aren't that much bigger than the Bone Colossus or the Vampire Lord (who is slightly smaller than a Colossus). I can see it being weird for a little while, but eventually people will just get used to the Great Dane Werewolves running around.

    The real sticking point is not making it overpowered because it is bigger. Treating it like the Berserker is fine, no change but a visual one.
    • Tybalt Kaine Khajiit Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion
    • PC/NA
    • Guildmaster- Lucky Raven
    • Knight of Marrow - Blackfeather Academy
    • Adepti- The Witches Goblet
    • Dragon Frog - Butterscotch Dragon Frog
    • Trader- Tamriel Trade Secrets
    • "Nightblade healer huh? How does that work?"
    • "I drain the blood of our enemies and fire it into you. It's a lot less messy than it sounds, and yeah I'm basically a Vampire without the whole AGH FIRE BAD"
  • TybaltKaine
    TybaltKaine
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    Size comparison between Vampire Lord and Werewolf Behemoth. Behemoth is howling, so extended more than it would be in general animations (more hunched when running, idle, etc)

    45d95lzbhf1n.png
    Edited by TybaltKaine on July 23, 2023 3:24PM
    • Tybalt Kaine Khajiit Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion
    • PC/NA
    • Guildmaster- Lucky Raven
    • Knight of Marrow - Blackfeather Academy
    • Adepti- The Witches Goblet
    • Dragon Frog - Butterscotch Dragon Frog
    • Trader- Tamriel Trade Secrets
    • "Nightblade healer huh? How does that work?"
    • "I drain the blood of our enemies and fire it into you. It's a lot less messy than it sounds, and yeah I'm basically a Vampire without the whole AGH FIRE BAD"
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    Rather they updated the werewolf (and added other werebeast skins) to be more like it once was, but of course better. Don't like the look of the behemoth and would not be pleased if my werewolf was changed to that.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Vulkunne
    Vulkunne
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    Or at least change the Werewolf Berserker to the Behemoth version... Perfect for tank-like style..

    I agree with pretty much everyone here.

    Really don't think making it bigger would be that 'big' of a deal as WW is the agro magnet for PvP anyways. This is among several reasons why I have virtually phased out WW. Just can't really produce a build with enough power to take those big hits, sustain those big heals and deal big damage.

    Kind of ironic that once again Vamp is fast-tracked to become meta and widely used by majority of the community. Just no real reason to care about WW anymore.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills.
  • phaneub17_ESO
    phaneub17_ESO
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    Size comparison between Vampire Lord and Werewolf Behemoth. Behemoth is howling, so extended more than it would be in general animations (more hunched when running, idle, etc)

    45d95lzbhf1n.png

    Who wants a belly scritch?
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
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    Behemoth might be a little big but I’d love more lycanthropy/transformation options like Werebear. That’d be cool.
  • Scaletho
    Scaletho
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    Werewolf has been nerfed constantly in the last updates, no way ZOS will give us a ginormous behemoth.

    And even if we consider the implausible scenario where ZOS decide to create it, they will nerf it the next update, rendering it total useless.
  • flizomica
    flizomica
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    The temporary behemoth transform in Stone Garden is a lot more fun than the actual werewolf skill line at this point...
  • barney2525
    barney2525
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    WW is not a Class. Leave it as is.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Scaletho wrote: »
    Werewolf has been nerfed constantly in the last updates, no way ZOS will give us a ginormous behemoth.
    Yeah, that would be ultimate trolling. After so many nerfs, when all PvE-ers and PvP-ers agree that WW is most likely the worst spec (and class) in the game, imagine ZOS making them too look as buffed as possible lol :D:joy:
  • Rampeal
    Rampeal
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    WW is not a Class. Leave it as is.

    Neither is the Bow skill line, yet there are players that run pure bow builds.
  • RaikaNA
    RaikaNA
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    Behemoths aren't that much bigger than the Bone Colossus or the Vampire Lord (who is slightly smaller than a Colossus). I can see it being weird for a little while, but eventually people will just get used to the Great Dane Werewolves running around.

    The real sticking point is not making it overpowered because it is bigger. Treating it like the Berserker is fine, no change but a visual one.

    Adding some negative effects would add balance to the Behemoths... since they're large.. they would move incredibly slowly and no sprinting. This would give people that want to tank as a werewolf to have such an option...

    It doesn't seem lore friendly if NPCS can turn into a Behemoth, but we can't? When we get infected by vampirism either from a wild vampire or from other players.. we automatically become a vampire lord (Which doesn't make sense) with the ultimate, but as a werewolf.. we can't have extra goodies.

    Following NPCs who are Behemoths
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Balorgh
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sister_Balra
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hakgrym_the_Howler
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hordrek
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    flizomica wrote: »
    The temporary behemoth transform in Stone Garden is a lot more fun than the actual werewolf skill line at this point...

    100% this lol

    WW isnt that bad, but that behemoth thing in the dungeon feels more of a "berserker" than the actual ww berserker morph

    pack leader i think is fine as is since that is supposed to be the tanky/support type
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Kalle_Demos
    Kalle_Demos
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    No. Just no.
  • RaikaNA
    RaikaNA
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    No. Just no.

    If you don't mind me asking... why?
  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    WW is not a Class. Leave it as is.

    It should be.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    Behemoths aren't that much bigger than the Bone Colossus or the Vampire Lord (who is slightly smaller than a Colossus). I can see it being weird for a little while, but eventually people will just get used to the Great Dane Werewolves running around.

    The real sticking point is not making it overpowered because it is bigger. Treating it like the Berserker is fine, no change but a visual one.

    Adding some negative effects would add balance to the Behemoths... since they're large.. they would move incredibly slowly and no sprinting. This would give people that want to tank as a werewolf to have such an option...

    It doesn't seem lore friendly if NPCS can turn into a Behemoth, but we can't? When we get infected by vampirism either from a wild vampire or from other players.. we automatically become a vampire lord (Which doesn't make sense) with the ultimate, but as a werewolf.. we can't have extra goodies.

    Following NPCs who are Behemoths
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Balorgh
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sister_Balra
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hakgrym_the_Howler
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hordrek

    That is because when we get bitten by an NPC Vampire we are told we cannot become a Vampire that way so have to visit Lamae Bal who instead turns us into Blood Scions, we are turned by Lamae Bal not the person who infects us.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    WW is not a Class. Leave it as is.
    Technically it is not, as it is an "Ultimate ability", but the way it operates is the closest to its own separate class (or in this case a "mini class") as you change your gameplay, skill set, rotation and weapon you are using when you transform. And you can keep WW form up for as long as you fight and sometimes even longer.

    Anyway in todays ESO, aside from RP and appearance (which is not that great tbh) WW "brings nothing to the table". There is nothing unique or outstanding mechanically or skill wise when it comes to WW. Especially after Oakensoul Mythic was introduced as it simply gives you 1-bar limit + same perma-buffs that WW has during transformation, while leaving room for ulti + any 5 skills you can chose for your bar.

    Vamp at least has the Undeath passive, Mist Form and sneak sprint passive which makes it an interesting option.

    But, here is the thing: There was a time in which WW was actually useful in some builds, but got nerfed due to PvE ("Brain dead rotation" terms were used as you basically were only LA & was able to hit decent dps). Later on WW was nerfed yet again due to PvP as it had a unique armour buff. After that, even after receiving very strong buffs, WW has not recovered & is in a useless spot right now.

    Same process has already started for Vamps as players already complain about Undeath passive being too strong.

    I guess we can not have nice things :neutral:
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 25, 2023 9:50AM
  • Panderbander
    Panderbander
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    If you don't mind me asking... why?

    Because people see the word "werewolf" and begin to froth at the mouth with insatiable rage that there might be others that enjoy it.
    Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"
  • Kalle_Demos
    Kalle_Demos
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    If you don't mind me asking... why?

    I have a number of issues with the WWB, mostly from lore perspectives but gameplay priorities as well. Firstly, I don't believe the WWB should be a thing at all. An abnormally large WW skin? Sure. No issue with that. A creature and transformation that is separate or alt from normal WW? Absolutely not. WWB are a thing that ESO just made up and has no bearing on ES WW lore going back decades. I understand and accept that as an MMO, ESO is a different animal and cannot adapt lore the same way that the single player games can and that there are going to be massive concessions and compromises in adaptation. But I ask you to take a quick look at WW in single player and WW in the first few years of ESO...The WWB as a concept in any context of this continuity is absurd.

    As for gameplay, an alt WW transformation is a non starter. No. Just no. It is, frankly, a [REDACTED] idea. Especially when one of the longest standing requests of players are more Werebeast in ESO. Y'all want a more powerful, beefier WW? WWB ain't it. Wearbears are what you're looking for. Werewolves - DPS. Wearbears - Tanks. Werevultures - Healing. We can have everything we want. Let's not undermine that with the ridiculousness that are WWB.
  • huskandhunger
    huskandhunger
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    I'd like an overall complete werewolf update for both visuals and skills.
  • RaikaNA
    RaikaNA
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    If you don't mind me asking... why?

    I have a number of issues with the WWB, mostly from lore perspectives but gameplay priorities as well. Firstly, I don't believe the WWB should be a thing at all. An abnormally large WW skin? Sure. No issue with that. A creature and transformation that is separate or alt from normal WW? Absolutely not. WWB are a thing that ESO just made up and has no bearing on ES WW lore going back decades. I understand and accept that as an MMO, ESO is a different animal and cannot adapt lore the same way that the single player games can and that there are going to be massive concessions and compromises in adaptation. But I ask you to take a quick look at WW in single player and WW in the first few years of ESO...The WWB as a concept in any context of this continuity is absurd.

    As for gameplay, an alt WW transformation is a non starter. No. Just no. It is, frankly, a [REDACTED] idea. Especially when one of the longest standing requests of players are more Werebeast in ESO. Y'all want a more powerful, beefier WW? WWB ain't it. Wearbears are what you're looking for. Werewolves - DPS. Wearbears - Tanks. Werevultures - Healing. We can have everything we want. Let's not undermine that with the ridiculousness that are WWB.

    The lore changes all the time and this is a MMORPG game so we do need to take it into consideration that not everything that is in this game is going to be “lore” friendly. This game needs a lot more content, and I don't just mean adding only dungeons or trials... or repeated questing. There should be new races, an overhaul on werewolves/vampires, and among other things too. For example, if I wanted to further improve on my character being a werewolf.. I should have to undergo rigorous test and trials to advance my character... and I don't mean only completing a veteran HM dungeon to obtain a personality or skin. Since man-beasts are a thing in the game... why can't I elect on being one myself? This would give ZOS an opportunity to create a whole new race that has unarmed abilities to use, and not rely on wielding a weapon.

    I do agree that this game should introduce a new werebeast into the game.. perhaps again.. As I mention above.. overhauling werewolves.. Making it so that if an argonian becomes a werewolf.. instead of being a werewolf they become more of a reptilian beast... like Werecrocodiles. I would love for my Khajiit to become a Werelion since they're native to Elsweyr, Black Marsh, and Cyrodiil.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Scaletho wrote: »
    Werewolf has been nerfed constantly in the last updates, no way ZOS will give us a ginormous behemoth.

    And even if we consider the implausible scenario where ZOS decide to create it, they will nerf it the next update, rendering it total useless.

    But it would look cool.
  • RaikaNA
    RaikaNA
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    Scaletho wrote: »
    Werewolf has been nerfed constantly in the last updates, no way ZOS will give us a ginormous behemoth.

    And even if we consider the implausible scenario where ZOS decide to create it, they will nerf it the next update, rendering it total useless.

    ZOS should be focusing on what we (the customers) want and not what they want us to play.. There is a reason why Skyrim is still alive and kicking right now... it's because we have the freedom to enjoy the game with mods created by the community, and not by the developers.

    np0i2qdbn2ct.png
  • Kalle_Demos
    Kalle_Demos
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    RaikaNA wrote: »
    RaikaNA wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    If you don't mind me asking... why?

    I have a number of issues with the WWB, mostly from lore perspectives but gameplay priorities as well. Firstly, I don't believe the WWB should be a thing at all. An abnormally large WW skin? Sure. No issue with that. A creature and transformation that is separate or alt from normal WW? Absolutely not. WWB are a thing that ESO just made up and has no bearing on ES WW lore going back decades. I understand and accept that as an MMO, ESO is a different animal and cannot adapt lore the same way that the single player games can and that there are going to be massive concessions and compromises in adaptation. But I ask you to take a quick look at WW in single player and WW in the first few years of ESO...The WWB as a concept in any context of this continuity is absurd.

    As for gameplay, an alt WW transformation is a non starter. No. Just no. It is, frankly, a [REDACTED] idea. Especially when one of the longest standing requests of players are more Werebeast in ESO. Y'all want a more powerful, beefier WW? WWB ain't it. Wearbears are what you're looking for. Werewolves - DPS. Wearbears - Tanks. Werevultures - Healing. We can have everything we want. Let's not undermine that with the ridiculousness that are WWB.

    The lore changes all the time and this is a MMORPG game so we do need to take it into consideration that not everything that is in this game is going to be “lore” friendly. This game needs a lot more content, and I don't just mean adding only dungeons or trials... or repeated questing. There should be new races, an overhaul on werewolves/vampires, and among other things too. For example, if I wanted to further improve on my character being a werewolf.. I should have to undergo rigorous test and trials to advance my character... and I don't mean only completing a veteran HM dungeon to obtain a personality or skin. Since man-beasts are a thing in the game... why can't I elect on being one myself? This would give ZOS an opportunity to create a whole new race that has unarmed abilities to use, and not rely on wielding a weapon.

    I do agree that this game should introduce a new werebeast into the game.. perhaps again.. As I mention above.. overhauling werewolves.. Making it so that if an argonian becomes a werewolf.. instead of being a werewolf they become more of a reptilian beast... like Werecrocodiles. I would love for my Khajiit to become a Werelion since they're native to Elsweyr, Black Marsh, and Cyrodiil.

    First of all, you are wrong. The lore does not change all the time. There are occasional retcons, things lost in translation and omissions via tech limitations but the lore, the source of all this fantasy remains intact. Cyrodiil used to be a rainforest. Massive and egregious alterations like this and the ones you are asking for are rare and often maligned in this series and fandom. Sky Whales were left out of Skyrim and ESO because only so much will fit in these games. It's impossible to fit the entirety of the lore in any single project but just because we don't see them doesn't mean they no longer exist in lore. Spellcraft is a language. Every single spell has an attached incantation but even tho this has never been a feature in any ES game the lore stands to this day.

    The things you are suggesting, new races, scrambling how Were-beasts infection works are things that have been debated going back decades in this franchise and...look around. It's not going to happen. (In Regina George's voice) The fandom, the people who give this series life decided a long time ago that lore and consistency matter. This franchise has an identity and taking a hacksaw to it like you want would turn it into something else. People were rightfully upset with the axe job did to Bosmer in this game for a reason. That identity was breached. Zos even wanted to bring the Dwemer back in ESO, upturning decades of story but Bethesda shut it down Because. Identity. Matters. and they know fans of the series wouldn't have it.

    There are plenty of franchises that shapeshift at a whim and I'd like to see them last as long as The Elder Scrolls has. The things you want are already possible within the context of the established structure of gameplay/lore. New races? Sure. Once the series moves on from Tamriel and onto another continent like Akavir. More content? Sure. Just drop support for older gen consoles. ESO can only be as good as old consoles will allow. Throwing out systems that already work, taking a axe to lore is simply needless chaos and that helps no one.
  • Lapin_Logic
    Lapin_Logic
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    Changing the size of the model wouldn't negatively effect gameplay, also the players Behemoth wouldn't need to be as large as the transform stone one.

    If players want the old model it would still be in the game in 2 colours, I really don't get why some folks are loosing their minds over the prospect of a far better model being used for one morph of WW.

    personally I wouldn't be averse to a Mythic being introduced that would alter your WW transform to Behemoth, you could stay in this form permanent BUT there would be a whole host of negatives for not satisfying Hircines thirst.
  • Erickson9610
    Erickson9610
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    I could see the Werewolf Behemoth special ability bar we get in Stone Garden being used as an alternative to Volendrung to be used in Cyrodiil, but I imagine it would be a nightmare to balance that out with a PvP context in mind, rather than a PvE context.

    I'd like to see the base werewolf model get a mesh and texture update, though. The Werewolf Behemoth model we first saw in the Wolfhunter DLC was the first new werewolf model since the base werewolf models were changed, and I almost wonder if the Werewolf Behemoth model was initially intended to replace the base werewolf model before being reworked into the giant werewolf enemies we see in the promotional art.
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