The play-ability of the tri-focus lightning staff change.

Beefstickbandit

My wife and I popped in to the PTS to try out the change to our playstyle in the things we normally do, overland content, public dungeons, questing, delves and even some normal dungeons. We feel gutted. The lightning staff provided area damage in a away that allowed us to put fun utility spells on our bar and still kill the little groups of mobs at the same time. Now usually what happens is the target mob dies before the heavy attack finishes and we never even get to see splash damage go around. It's now a single target destruction staff for most cases of the things we like to do and it feels so incredibly bad, the whole purpose of the lightning staff seemed like it was to provide area damage, unless you are killing something that's going to live a long time you are rarely going to see that area damage. If this change goes live It's going to feel bad and underwhelming to play.

The one bar lightning staff build breathed life in to the game for us, since we came back to the game and found that build we haven't looked back it's been many months that we have been in ESO. it gave us a reason to finish leveling and making golden gear for one of every class, well except warden we're still leveling the horse skills on that one, it was just going to be next. Now it feels unplayable for the things we do. It's heartbreaking, we were having an amazing time seeing all the lands of ESO in a way that was playable and fun for us. We even did some achievements that would have otherwise been impossible for us to do (Achievements that grant outfit dyes ;p).

I understand there is some reason why the change is being made but I am begging to change the change so that we can still get some area damage without having to complete the whole heavy attack on a living mob.

The change on the PTS is broken and feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

TLDR: lightning staff heavies rarely complete on normal mobs in the world, AOE damage feels reduced by 95%.


Thanks for reading.

-Bouncy

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

My wife and I popped in to the PTS to try out the change to our playstyle in the things we normally do, overland content, public dungeons, questing, delves and even some normal dungeons. We feel gutted. The lightning staff provided area damage in a away that allowed us to put fun utility spells on our bar and still kill the little groups of mobs at the same time. Now usually what happens is the target mob dies before the heavy attack finishes and we never even get to see splash damage go around. It's now a single target destruction staff for most cases of the things we like to do and it feels so incredibly bad, the whole purpose of the lightning staff seemed like it was to provide area damage, unless you are killing something that's going to live a long time you are rarely going to see that area damage. If this change goes live It's going to feel bad and underwhelming to play.

The one bar lightning staff build breathed life in to the game for us, since we came back to the game and found that build we haven't looked back it's been many months that we have been in ESO. it gave us a reason to finish leveling and making golden gear for one of every class, well except warden we're still leveling the horse skills on that one, it was just going to be next. Now it feels unplayable for the things we do. It's heartbreaking, we were having an amazing time seeing all the lands of ESO in a way that was playable and fun for us. We even did some achievements that would have otherwise been impossible for us to do (Achievements that grant outfit dyes ;p).

I understand there is some reason why the change is being made but I am begging to change the change so that we can still get some area damage without having to complete the whole heavy attack on a living mob.

The change on the PTS is broken and feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

TLDR: lightning staff heavies rarely complete on normal mobs in the world, AOE damage feels reduced by 95%.


Thanks for reading.

-Bouncy

That's unfortunately what I expected to hear... wow. I'll be done with dps if this goes live. Heavy attacks making a comeback was the only thing that saved the game for me from the Lost Depths patch turmoil. If they're gone, that's it. I don't have it in me to start all over again for the fiftieth time.

Necrotech_Master

i think for harder content it will still be fine, your doing overland content, as you noted your already killing things before you finish 1 full heavy attack thats how weak it is

you could literally just use wall of elements and do enough aoe dmg to compensate in terms of overland content even up to public dungeons

if your actually fighting a boss, focus your heavy attacks on them so they can fully complete and that will still melt the adds when that final hit does 30k splash dmg if your on a heavy attack build

most overland enemies already can be easily 2 shot if they are not some kind of elite or boss mob

CameraBeardThePirate

If the problem is that the mob is dying too quick... just throw on wall of elements? Unstable wall should flatten 90% of overland content just from spamming it.

thadjarvis

In overland as they say you can use something like wall. There's no need for pets there so you can drop those and keep your fun skills.

In dungeons tab target the larger enemy in the group. That way the explosion should still go off.

Mayrael

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If the problem is that the mob is dying too quick... just throw on wall of elements? Unstable wall should flatten 90% of overland content just from spamming it.

That's just band aid to thing that nobody was complaining about but ZOS still had to brake it. I suppose it was a way to "fix" Tri-focus in PvP, where the splash damage was bugged, so instead fixing the actual bug they've just destroyed Lightning staves.

CameraBeardThePirate

Mayrael wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If the problem is that the mob is dying too quick... just throw on wall of elements? Unstable wall should flatten 90% of overland content just from spamming it.

That's just band aid to thing that nobody was complaining about but ZOS still had to brake it. I suppose it was a way to "fix" Tri-focus in PvP, where the splash damage was bugged, so instead fixing the actual bug they've just destroyed Lightning staves.

Well no, it wasn't just PvP. Tri-Focus was more powerful than intended on Lightning Staves in all content, not just PvP. That's why it was nerfed.

BlueRaven

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

My wife and I popped in to the PTS to try out the change to our playstyle in the things we normally do, overland content, public dungeons, questing, delves and even some normal dungeons. We feel gutted. The lightning staff provided area damage in a away that allowed us to put fun utility spells on our bar and still kill the little groups of mobs at the same time. Now usually what happens is the target mob dies before the heavy attack finishes and we never even get to see splash damage go around. It's now a single target destruction staff for most cases of the things we like to do and it feels so incredibly bad, the whole purpose of the lightning staff seemed like it was to provide area damage, unless you are killing something that's going to live a long time you are rarely going to see that area damage. If this change goes live It's going to feel bad and underwhelming to play.

The one bar lightning staff build breathed life in to the game for us, since we came back to the game and found that build we haven't looked back it's been many months that we have been in ESO. it gave us a reason to finish leveling and making golden gear for one of every class, well except warden we're still leveling the horse skills on that one, it was just going to be next. Now it feels unplayable for the things we do. It's heartbreaking, we were having an amazing time seeing all the lands of ESO in a way that was playable and fun for us. We even did some achievements that would have otherwise been impossible for us to do (Achievements that grant outfit dyes ;p).

I understand there is some reason why the change is being made but I am begging to change the change so that we can still get some area damage without having to complete the whole heavy attack on a living mob.

The change on the PTS is broken and feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

TLDR: lightning staff heavies rarely complete on normal mobs in the world, AOE damage feels reduced by 95%.


Thanks for reading.

-Bouncy

Unfortunately I am hearing a lot of the same in my guilds. And while my main is not a ha build, I am just become disgusted in how zos is treating the average player. It really seems that zos (and these forums) really enjoy punching downward.

This nerf was not needed.

Yajnho

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If the problem is that the mob is dying too quick... just throw on wall of elements? Unstable wall should flatten 90% of overland content just from spamming it.

That's just band aid to thing that nobody was complaining about but ZOS still had to brake it. I suppose it was a way to "fix" Tri-focus in PvP, where the splash damage was bugged, so instead fixing the actual bug they've just destroyed Lightning staves.

Well no, it wasn't just PvP. Tri-Focus was more powerful than intended on Lightning Staves in all content, not just PvP. That's why it was nerfed.

Even if I agreed that the original version of Tri focus was to powerful, which I don’t, why change the entire play style of the staff and nerf it completely into the ground in the process?? It’s VERY heavy handed and completely destroys aoe builds whose job is to clean up adds in dungeons and trials. Why else do you bring those guys? Their single target damage lags behind the meta builds, which is why they loose out on the dummy parse.

Why not just say 50% of the damage is converted to aoe instead of 100%? Some measured approach to the perceived problem rather than changing everything about a weapon that has been the same since the game was created seems a lot more reasonable to me.

BalticBlues

ZOS wrote:

Lightning Staff-Ancient Knowledge: This passive now increases your damage done with over time and channeled attacks by 6/12%, rather than increasing your damage done with Area of Effect attacks by 5/10%.

Honest opinion: This is a new level of disrespect for ESO customers.

ESO is not in Alpha or in Beta stage anymore.
Customers play this game for 9 years now and millions of builds use Lightning Staves for AoE.
AoE builds are accessible to any class and therefore all classes benefit from Lightning Staves.

Suddenly in 2023 the purpose and functionality of Lightning Staves entirely change?
Lightning Staffs suddenly are worthless for AoE builds?
Lightning Staffs suddenly are meant for channeled attacks which most classes do not have?

This level of disrespect for the former ESO game development and disrespect for loyal customers is amazing. 9 years after game release when customers have invested hundreds of hours in this game, customers can agree to balance changes for fine-tuning: If one feature is too weak or too strong, it can be buffed or nerfed for a certain amount.

However, to remove core functionalities is like pulling the rug from under peoples feet. When people buy a car with aircon and suddenly 9 years later the manufacturer decides to disable the aircon, this ends in court.

If this change goes live, I will not spend another dime in the crown store.
I love this game, but each patch brings dread and now even feature cuts. THIS IS HORRIBLE.

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

I am begging to change the change so that we can still get some area damage [...]
The change on the PTS is broken and feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

@ZOS: Customers should never have to beg to keep an established product functionality.

katorga

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If the problem is that the mob is dying too quick... just throw on wall of elements? Unstable wall should flatten 90% of overland content just from spamming it.

That's just band aid to thing that nobody was complaining about but ZOS still had to brake it. I suppose it was a way to "fix" Tri-focus in PvP, where the splash damage was bugged, so instead fixing the actual bug they've just destroyed Lightning staves.

Well no, it wasn't just PvP. Tri-Focus was more powerful than intended on Lightning Staves in all content, not just PvP. That's why it was nerfed.

It was exactly as powerful as intented, heavy attack builds have been around since 2016. Search the forums.

Remember, it was only in the last year or two that ZOS nerfed maelstrom staff, and some of the heavy attack sets to not work on players. For the majority of the game heavy attack builds have been a lot stronger than they are now in pvp. They've always been niche builds because there is always something better.

ZOS just likes to totally wreck some things and totally over-buff new things periodically. It generates $$$ from the percentage of the playerbase willing to spend to chase fotm.

Seraphayel

I really don’t understand the problem. Content is too easy and mobs die to fast so you don’t get the full channel, yet you need the AoE from Lightning Staff to kill them?

I mean even if you just have 5 bar slots, just slot one AoE ability. That’s basically part of every build or class. Even if I try, I really don’t see any issue here, especially not for the type of content you (OP) do on a frequent basis.

I think the reaction towards the Destruction Staff changes are just too extreme for how minor the real impact (outside of parsing / max DPS) is. No offense, just my take on the entire situation. It‘s not so dramatic.

BalticBlues

Seraphayel wrote: »

I really don’t understand the problem.

Have you even cared to read what the OP wrote?
Do you not understand why he and his wife suffer?

The changes do not just adjust values - the changes remove a known core functionality of ESO.
People with builds around this functionality cannot use these builds and gear anymore.

KlauthWarthog

BalticBlues wrote: »

ESO is not in Alpha or in Beta stage anymore.

I am going to have to disagree with you on that based on the available evidence, tbh.

CameraBeardThePirate

BalticBlues wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I really don’t understand the problem.

Have you even cared to read what the OP wrote?
Do you not understand why he and his wife suffer?

The changes do not just adjust values - the changes remove a known core functionality of ESO.
People with builds around this functionality cannot use these builds and gear anymore.

They didn't "remove a core functionality". They reduced the cleave damage of lightning staff. That's it. It was a needed change, as the amount of cleave from holding a single button was out of control. Slot an extra AoE DoT or 2.

Besides, OP was complaining about mobs dying too fast. Overland mobs are as fragile as paper. If you want to cleave them down, spam something like Unstable Wall. In combat encounters in dungeons, this won't be a problem.

BalticBlues

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

They didn't "remove a core functionality".

AOE damage boost IS THE CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves since 2016.
The "Destructive Clench" skill marks this core functionality even more with an exclusive AoE damage. To remove this core functionality is making Lightning Staves USELESS for many customers, classes and builds.

CameraBeardThePirate

BalticBlues wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

They didn't "remove a core functionality".

AOE damage boost IS THE CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves since 2016.
The "Destructive Clench" skill marks this core functionality even more with an exclusive AoE damage. To remove this core functionality is making Lightning Staves USELESS for many customers, classes and builds.

Welcome to the world of MMOs. Metas change. Either change your build and adapt or continue complaining. Reducing the cleave isn't going to "destroy builds". That's a gross overreaction. AoE DoTs will still be boosted by Lightning Staff in the new version of the passive.

Braffin

BalticBlues wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

They didn't "remove a core functionality".

AOE damage boost IS THE CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves since 2016.
The "Destructive Clench" skill marks this core functionality even more with an exclusive AoE damage. To remove this core functionality is making Lightning Staves USELESS for many customers, classes and builds.

And that wasn't changed. Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

So in this case, zos is exactly doing what you're denying: adjusting the values.

SirLeeMinion

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

The one bar lightning staff build breathed life in to the game for us, since we came back to the game and found that build we haven't looked back it's been many months that we have been in ESO. it gave us a reason to finish leveling and making golden gear for one of every class, well except warden we're still leveling the horse skills on that one, it was just going to be next. Now it feels unplayable for the things we do. It's heartbreaking, we were having an amazing time seeing all the lands of ESO in a way that was playable and fun for us. We even did some achievements that would have otherwise been impossible for us to do (Achievements that grant outfit dyes ;p).

I know what you mean. I started subbing on my main account last fall, because the vet DLC dungeons were possible and enjoyable with my higher ping times. I dropped my sub when the first heavy attack nerf came and out in the spring. Shortly after, I switched to playing Black Desert. I miss the friends with whom I ran content in this game, but I don't miss the dread I've felt over the years as most new patches bring an arrow to the knee of my builds instead of something to eagerly anticipate. Oddly, after playing for so many years, I haven't missed the game either.

I did hope that this update would give me a reason to come back... maybe next quarter.

CameraBeardThePirate

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

The one bar lightning staff build breathed life in to the game for us, since we came back to the game and found that build we haven't looked back it's been many months that we have been in ESO. it gave us a reason to finish leveling and making golden gear for one of every class, well except warden we're still leveling the horse skills on that one, it was just going to be next. Now it feels unplayable for the things we do. It's heartbreaking, we were having an amazing time seeing all the lands of ESO in a way that was playable and fun for us. We even did some achievements that would have otherwise been impossible for us to do (Achievements that grant outfit dyes ;p).

I know what you mean. I started subbing on my main account last fall, because the vet DLC dungeons were possible and enjoyable with my higher ping times. I dropped my sub when the first heavy attack nerf came and out in the spring. Shortly after, I switched to playing Black Desert. I miss the friends with whom I ran content in this game, but I don't miss the dread I've felt over the years as most new patches bring an arrow to the knee of my builds instead of something to eagerly anticipate. Oddly, after playing for so many years, I haven't missed the game either.

I did hope that this update would give me a reason to come back... maybe next quarter.

The first round of Heavy Attack nerfs last patch barely even affected their overall DPS output.

This round of changes will nerf their AoE output, but buff their single target output. The difficulty of completing Vet Dungeons with a HA build will hardly go up - trash packs just might take a bit longer. The main difficulty in completing this content will continue to be each player's knowledge of mechanics.

People need to stop overreacting when something they use is nerfed. The Lightning Heavy build will remain an easy to use build with high survivability, infinite sustain, and high single target damage with a modest amount of cleave.

BalticBlues

Braffin wrote: »

Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

Agreed, this nerf is just a nerf, so it is acceptable - even though I think it is not justified.

However, the central point is that the CORE BONUS FOR AOE is deleted from Ancient Knowledge.
This deletes the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves.

Ask youself: Why did AoE Classes like MagSorc and Magcro pick a Lightning Staff?
And suddenly, in year 9, a dev is pulling the rug from under their feet?
It's like, "Sorry guys, this bonus now goes to the Channel Classes in the game."

This is a slap in the face of the affected customers.
To lose a core functionality, wrecking millions of customer builds, is not acceptable.

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

My wife and I [...]. We feel gutted.
The change [...] feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

"Disgusting" is probably the right word for disrespect with another year of a core crippling patch.

CameraBeardThePirate

BalticBlues wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

Agreed, this nerf is just a nerf, so it is acceptable - even though I think it is not justified.

However, the central point is that the CORE BONUS FOR AOE is deleted from Ancient Knowledge.
This deletes the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves.

Ask youself: Why did AoE Classes like MagSorc and Magcro pick a Lightning Staff?
And suddenly, in year 9, a dev is pulling the rug from under their feet?
It's like, "Sorry guys, this bonus now goes to the Channel Classes in the game."

This is a slap in the face of the affected customers.
To lose a core functionality, wrecking millions of customer builds, is not acceptable.

The new bonus isn't just for channels - it's all DoTs. That includes AOE DoTs. The rug hasn't been pulled out from anyone - you'll see a slight damage loss and that's it.

MagSorc is definitely not an AoE class unless they're running a HA build - their highest damaging ability is Frags and frags is single target, if you wanted to run staff on a sorc with the highest DPS you'd be running inferno.

Besides, if you really wanted to max your damage you wouldn't even be using Lightning Staff in the first place, you'd be running Dual Wield. I'm a MagCro main and I can't even remember the last time I used a Lightning Staff.

BalticBlues

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

if you really wanted to max your damage you wouldn't even be using Lightning Staff in the first place, you'd be running Dual Wield.

Thank you for the Elite player advice.

Yes, people spending hundreds of hours in ESO, we use Dual Wield.
However, Dual Wield is a completely different play style.
A play style hardly suited for beginners and casual players.

MagSorc with Lightning Staff, the "Easy Sorc", is the PVE CLASSIC for beginners.
Isn't it a SHAME to cripple the weakest players now? Who asked for this?
"Elite" players, not wanting to be joined in performance by beginners with Oakensoal?

The central point again: ESO IS NINE YEARS OLD. Out of Alpha, Beta and years after release,
customers must be able to TRUST the game functionalities and their builds
Nerfing of values is acceptable, deleting core functionalities is not.

CameraBeardThePirate

BalticBlues wrote: »

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

if you really wanted to max your damage you wouldn't even be using Lightning Staff in the first place, you'd be running Dual Wield.

Thank you for the Elite player advice.

Yes, people spending hundreds of hours in ESO, we use Dual Wield.
However, Dual Wield is a completely different play style.
A play style hardly suited for beginners and casual players.

MagSorc with Lightning Staff, the "Easy Sorc" is the PVE CLASSIC for beginners.
Isn't it a SHAME to weaken the weakest players now?
Who asked for this? "Elite" players I guess, not wanting to be joined in performance by beginners.

Anyway. The point is this: ESO IS NINE YEARS OLD. Out of Alpha, Beta and years after release,
Customers must be able to TRUST the game core, the functionality, their builds

Dual Wield isn't a "completely different playstyle", unless you're referring to HA builds specifically. A DPS spec with a lightning staff vs Dual Wield can use the exact same bar layout (save for maybe one DoT). The only difference will be playing close up vs at range.

And again, the "core functionality" of the build remains. HA Lightning builds will still be completely viable in all of the same content. Nothing was destroyed, except apparently your composure.

valenwood_vegan

I have to agree with this change being too heavy-handed. This game is nine years old; it's time to stop radically changing combat. Buffs and nerfs sure, but just like with the plaguebreak change previously... where the set was simply removed from PvE... now a long-standing function of lightning staves is simply being removed. (Inferno too).

This is not fun for casual players, who cannot as easily adjust and are more likely to simply move on to another game. And the exact build that is used by more casual players is what has been singled out for not just a nerf, but a major change in its core functionality. This is not content. Things like this are literally driving casual players away from the game. They don't want to relearn combat and re-gear over and over again. They're just going to move on to a more enjoyable game.

PLEASE reconsider - toning down the AoE damage of lightning staves is a reasonable change (though why ZoS let them go live that way and then decided oh... too much AoE... is another question). Sigh. This cycle is exhausting. Make smaller changes - take time to gather data - if they don't achieve the desired goal, make another smaller change in a couple of patches. There has to be an overall vision for combat and at some point it has to be realized - the combat team has to stop treating the game like it's in a perpetual beta test.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, and also the git gud crowd is going to come out of the woodwork. So be it. Not everyone plays the game to be super competitive. Some are here to have have fun. There is less and less fun to be found and People. Are. Leaving. Every time a patch guts a popular playstyle, people leave. This is bad for the game, period.

Since u35, I have watched over 40 more casual-type players on my friends list (and I'm not talking overland - I mean people who have played eso for a while, like to dabble in vet dungeons or normal trials and have fun) disappear from the game. The ones I'm able to talk to about why they aren't playing have *all* cited combat change fatigue as a top reason. Heavy attack builds brought a few of them back, and now they're jumping ship again too.

This game is bleeding players and knee-jerk combat changes are one big reason why. Someone in another thread described the constant pattern of nerfs and undesired changes as "death by a thousand cuts". This is exactly how I and the people I play the game with feel. It's sad to see. Just my opinion.

jaws343

BalticBlues wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

Agreed, this nerf is just a nerf, so it is acceptable - even though I think it is not justified.

However, the central point is that the CORE BONUS FOR AOE is deleted from Ancient Knowledge.
This deletes the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves.

Ask youself: Why did AoE Classes like MagSorc and Magcro pick a Lightning Staff?
And suddenly, in year 9, a dev is pulling the rug from under their feet?
It's like, "Sorry guys, this bonus now goes to the Channel Classes in the game."

This is a slap in the face of the affected customers.
To lose a core functionality, wrecking millions of customer builds, is not acceptable.

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

My wife and I [...]. We feel gutted.
The change [...] feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

"Disgusting" is probably the right word for disrespect with another year of a core crippling patch.

Sorc DPS setup (Non-Heavy Attack Build)
Frag - Single Target
Curse - Single Target
Force Pulse - Single Target
Barbed Trap - Single Target
Wall of Elements - AOE
Liquid Lightning - AOE
Storm Atro - Single Target

So, most sorcs are definitely not running lightning staves for non heavy DPS builds. And if they are, they are doing so at an extreme damage loss since inferno, and even dual wield, is stronger on Live. This change, if a sorc were running the above build with a lightning stave, would actually result in a buff I believe. As on live Ancient Knowledge provides a 10% buff to AOE damage. But WoE and Liquid Lightning are also DOTs, so they will now get a 12% buff rather than 10%. And every other skill in the build is uneffected by lightning staves on Live and on PTS.

Now, a Sorc Heavy Attack Setup:
Prey - Single Target
Scamp - Single Target
Twilight - Single Target
Hurricane - AOE
Storm Atro - Single Target

Well, none of the skills except Hurricane were ever benefitting from the Ancient Knowledge passive using a lightning stave. And since Hurricane is also a DOT, it now gets 12% damage increase instead of 10%.

As to the lightning stave itself. It is now being buffed during the channel on SINGLE target to 12% from 10%.

So, overall, your single target damage in a heavy attack build will be buffed.

Now, with the Trifocus change, the only real change for the build will be that the specific Tri-focus damage itself will be nerfed. Meaning less cleave from that 1 specific passive. All your other skills and the actual lightning heavy attack itself, will either be unchanged or do more damage.

jaws343

BalticBlues wrote: »

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

if you really wanted to max your damage you wouldn't even be using Lightning Staff in the first place, you'd be running Dual Wield.

Thank you for the Elite player advice.

Yes, people spending hundreds of hours in ESO, we use Dual Wield.
However, Dual Wield is a completely different play style.
A play style hardly suited for beginners and casual players.

MagSorc with Lightning Staff, the "Easy Sorc", is the PVE CLASSIC for beginners.
Isn't it a SHAME to cripple the weakest players now? Who asked for this?
"Elite" players, not wanting to be joined in performance by beginners with Oakensoal?

The central point again: ESO IS NINE YEARS OLD. Out of Alpha, Beta and years after release,
customers must be able to TRUST the game functionalities and their builds
Nerfing of values is acceptable, deleting core functionalities is not.

9 years?

Oakensoul didn't even exist before a year ago. Heavy attacks didn't even do as much damage as they do now before a year ago. And they are still stronger than they ever were beyond a year ago.

Braffin

BalticBlues wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

Agreed, this nerf is just a nerf, so it is acceptable - even though I think it is not justified.

However, the central point is that the CORE BONUS FOR AOE is deleted from Ancient Knowledge.
This deletes the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves.

Ask youself: Why did AoE Classes like MagSorc and Magcro pick a Lightning Staff?
And suddenly, in year 9, a dev is pulling the rug from under their feet?
It's like, "Sorry guys, this bonus now goes to the Channel Classes in the game."

This is a slap in the face of the affected customers.
To lose a core functionality, wrecking millions of customer builds, is not acceptable.

Beefstickbandit wrote: »

My wife and I [...]. We feel gutted.
The change [...] feels so painful to play, it's actually disgusting.

"Disgusting" is probably the right word for disrespect with another year of a core crippling patch.

If we are talking about the changes for ancient knowledge, there are only direct damage AoE skills affected (like impulse), as all DoT based AoE skills are also buffed with the changes.

While magcro offers indeed some direct damage AoE abilities, they are sparse on magsorc. None of them are used in typical lightning HA setups.

So we talk indeed about the splash dmg of lightning staves here, no need to distract from that. And as far as that goes, this functionality isn't deleted but simply put in line to stop the cheesing through otherwise difficult encounters by some one-button-brrrrrzzzzlords. Every other player can bypass this adjustments by simply slotting some DoT AoE like Wall of Elements and they will barely notice any difference. The brrrrzzzzing will be stopped tho, which is highly appreciated.

Beefstickbandit

Thank you all for the comments on my post.

I can't say I know all the reasons for why Tri-focus was changed in this way. What I can say though is that lightning staff play style worked well enough that my wife and I could enjoy parts of the game we would have otherwise never engaged in! My fear is that this changes goes though the way it is on the PTS. It feels so bad to play, whether you are fan of the style or not I would suggest giving it a try on the PTS to see what its like to actually use, it's pretty disheartening and feels so clunky.

I really hope this change does not go though the way it is now.

Thanks again
-Bouncy

Beefstickbandit

Sorry for the additional post but I did want to add one thing.

In the last few months we have started engaging in PVP in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds, after being ambushed, ganked and bombed to death relentlessly I went to find out how to do that as well or how to just be able to defend against it and found them to be an approved of and accepted play style. What can you do All I mean to say is that if those are acceptable in PVP surely area damage you can see coming and move away from should be acceptable as well, it's not hard to see that huge beautiful lightning bolt building I've run from it more times that I can count.

See you all while you are killing me in BG's HA

-Bouncy

ESO_player123

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Tri focus will still providing AoE dmg on the last tick of a lightning FHA.

Agreed, this nerf is just a nerf, so it is acceptable - even though I think it is not justified.

However, the central point is that the CORE BONUS FOR AOE is deleted from Ancient Knowledge.
This deletes the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of Lightning Staves.

Ask youself: Why did AoE Classes like MagSorc and Magcro pick a Lightning Staff?
And suddenly, in year 9, a dev is pulling the rug from under their feet?
It's like, "Sorry guys, this bonus now goes to the Channel Classes in the game."

This is a slap in the face of the affected customers.
To lose a core functionality, wrecking millions of customer builds, is not acceptable.

The new bonus isn't just for channels - it's all DoTs. That includes AOE DoTs. The rug hasn't been pulled out from anyone - you'll see a slight damage loss and that's it.

MagSorc is definitely not an AoE class unless they're running a HA build - their highest damaging ability is Frags and frags is single target, if you wanted to run staff on a sorc with the highest DPS you'd be running inferno.

Besides, if you really wanted to max your damage you wouldn't even be using Lightning Staff in the first place, you'd be running Dual Wield. I'm a MagCro main and I can't even remember the last time I used a Lightning Staff.

I do not think this thread is about the people that want to maximize their damage. From what I read (and feel myself since my main is a HA 2bar magsorc with lightning staff) it's the ability to do harder content than usual. For me, this build allowed to do some normal DLC dungeons solo and also solo Bastion Nymic. With loss of the AoE on lightning staff the trash packs like in BN and bosses with a lot of adds will be a huge pain.