Buff discussion NB Sorc and DK

cpuScientist

For the DK will the whip be able to be procced up if I use an ardent flame ability on the backbar? That would be a great quality of life change for PvE and PvP.

For the NB, the cloak change in PvP is a godsend gives me a whole bar slot. HOWEVER for PvE could the heal morph retain the crit bonuses and give the 5% reduction? it would give NB in PvE that dont swallow soul a nice heal ability to have on the bar as I cannot fathom a reason for a NB to use shadowy morph in PvE. This would be a great addition.

For sorc PLEASE make pets one barrable, but to make up for that take away the passive damage and attacks, just have them stay passively by the users side and only the active press abilities be useable if they are only on one bar. But have them show up maybe in a see through translucent manner like hurricane so its obvious they are only one barred. I am not sure how that would work for the scamp and the tormentor, maybe have the scamp still go to enemies just not hit them, and i mean the TORMENTOR has needed a change for years now, people just have it on for the passive damage anyway, make that jucier.

But the sorcs out there would REALLY love this change, I mean everyone has a reliable heal now and a version of streak. And Arcanist has the best shield skill in game by a mile, give sorcs that little push to allow them to brawl better and not ALWAYS have to kite. This would be the biggest QOL change you could make ZOS.

Jazraena

While I'm in principle agreement with one bar pets I really don't want to be pidgeonholed into pet builds even more.

We need non-pet alternatives.

Turtle_Bot

With how overloaded all the reworks for abilities are now, they could easily make pets 1 bar without any further drawbacks.

Make it so the active abilities of pets can only be used on the bar with the pets slotted, but the passives such as the DoT remains on both bars. Remember that for every pet that lasts a full trial boss fight, there's another 3 or more pets that die within 3 seconds of being summoned and it still takes 1.5 seconds (or 2 GCDs to summon each pet).

Honestly sorcerer needs to be divided into 2 separate classes, sorcerer (mage) and summoner (pets), this constant dividing the class between 2 completely different and non-synergistic playstyles needs to be addressed and fixed.

Major_Soulless

just use pets with oakensoul and they are very effective anyway. sorc one bar builds are really strong with the right sets a little boring but they are strong.

Turtle_Bot

Major_Soulless wrote: »

just use pets with oakensoul and they are very effective anyway. sorc one bar builds are really strong with the right sets a little boring but they are strong.

Lightning staves are losing the splash damage on all but the final tick of damage from the fully charged HA. This will really hurt HA sorcs for AoE (which non-HA sorc as a class was already really bad at).

Basically if these changes go through as is, sorcs will only be brought into content for atros group major berserk (and only if the damage loss of carrying a sorc through content is made up for by the group major berserk).

Major_Soulless

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Major_Soulless wrote: »

just use pets with oakensoul and they are very effective anyway. sorc one bar builds are really strong with the right sets a little boring but they are strong.

Lightning staves are losing the splash damage on all but the final tick of damage from the fully charged HA. This will really hurt HA sorcs for AoE (which non-HA sorc as a class was already really bad at).

Basically if these changes go through as is, sorcs will only be brought into content for atros group major berserk (and only if the damage loss of carrying a sorc through content is made up for by the group major berserk).

i do feel sorry for mag sorcs. the developers are so focused on NB and dk sorcs get nothing. on our server sorcs in pvp are only used for negate now

cpuScientist

Jazraena wrote: »

While I'm in principle agreement with one bar pets I really don't want to be pidgeonholed into pet builds even more.

We need non-pet alternatives.

I agree that’s why if it goes the way I wish it would it really wouldn’t be a pet anymore just there for the ability but unkillable. Just a prop an visual. Bam one bar just for the ability. Then double bar them and you get the passive dot damage and you make literally every sorc happy. We get the abilities and pve keeps the damage and ease of rotation

acastanza_ESO

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

With how overloaded all the reworks for abilities are now, they could easily make pets 1 bar without any further drawbacks.

Make it so the active abilities of pets can only be used on the bar with the pets slotted, but the passives such as the DoT remains on both bars. Remember that for every pet that lasts a full trial boss fight, there's another 3 or more pets that die within 3 seconds of being summoned and it still takes 1.5 seconds (or 2 GCDs to summon each pet).

Honestly sorcerer needs to be divided into 2 separate classes, sorcerer (mage) and summoner (pets), this constant dividing the class between 2 completely different and non-synergistic playstyles needs to be addressed and fixed.

I picked Sorcerer for my first character because I wanted to Storm Mage archetypes. If I had been told it was going to be forced into "Summoner" I simply would not have made the character. It is straight up a bait-and-switch at this point.

emilyhyoyeon

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

Jazraena

cpuScientist wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

While I'm in principle agreement with one bar pets I really don't want to be pidgeonholed into pet builds even more.

We need non-pet alternatives.

I agree that’s why if it goes the way I wish it would it really wouldn’t be a pet anymore just there for the ability but unkillable. Just a prop an visual. Bam one bar just for the ability. Then double bar them and you get the passive dot damage and you make literally every sorc happy. We get the abilities and pve keeps the damage and ease of rotation

And still have the pet out.

Nah, thanks.

cpuScientist

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

cpuScientist

Jazraena wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

While I'm in principle agreement with one bar pets I really don't want to be pidgeonholed into pet builds even more.

We need non-pet alternatives.

I agree that’s why if it goes the way I wish it would it really wouldn’t be a pet anymore just there for the ability but unkillable. Just a prop an visual. Bam one bar just for the ability. Then double bar them and you get the passive dot damage and you make literally every sorc happy. We get the abilities and pve keeps the damage and ease of rotation

And still have the pet out.

Nah, thanks.

I mean there’s a whole line dedicated to them. The only other place to drop a heal would be bound armor. Class just could use some survivabilty to hang in more group fights. Not to complain cause they are great additions to the game but with vamp streak and arcanist shields the class feels meh

Weckless

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

OBJnoob

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

Oo. Interesting. I haven't heard that before-- good one. Question though... So would it still be interruptible? When blocking I mean.

Okay after thinking about it for a minute I see a problem with the plan. Sometimes you WANT to cancel a cast time ability. And my preferred method to do that has always been block.

Also... I dunno, lots of little things. Does every other cast time ability in the game get the same treatment? Might not be the worst thing in the world I guess, just as long as channeled abilities are left out.

Turtle_Bot

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

With how overloaded all the reworks for abilities are now, they could easily make pets 1 bar without any further drawbacks.

Make it so the active abilities of pets can only be used on the bar with the pets slotted, but the passives such as the DoT remains on both bars. Remember that for every pet that lasts a full trial boss fight, there's another 3 or more pets that die within 3 seconds of being summoned and it still takes 1.5 seconds (or 2 GCDs to summon each pet).

Honestly sorcerer needs to be divided into 2 separate classes, sorcerer (mage) and summoner (pets), this constant dividing the class between 2 completely different and non-synergistic playstyles needs to be addressed and fixed.

I picked Sorcerer for my first character because I wanted to Storm Mage archetypes. If I had been told it was going to be forced into "Summoner" I simply would not have made the character. It is straight up a bait-and-switch at this point.

That's why I picked sorcerer as my first character way back in 2015 when I started, I like the whole mage/lightning theme the class was presented as being. Unfortunately, that playstyle hasn't existed for nearly 5 years now. Constant nerfs and shifting the power budget into the pets and prey has ensured that playstyle will remain long dead until a complete rework is done.

Turtle_Bot

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

This would be nice, but at this point I would even settle for just not being able to be interrupted when casting an ability with a cast time at this point.

ZOS has clearly indicated that they don't care about sorcerers, especially no-pet sorcs.

Turtle_Bot

OBJnoob wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

Oo. Interesting. I haven't heard that before-- good one. Question though... So would it still be interruptible? When blocking I mean.

Okay after thinking about it for a minute I see a problem with the plan. Sometimes you WANT to cancel a cast time ability. And my preferred method to do that has always been block.

Also... I dunno, lots of little things. Does every other cast time ability in the game get the same treatment? Might not be the worst thing in the world I guess, just as long as channeled abilities are left out.

It would be nice if they made a set that buffed non-ultimate abilities with a cast time (like deadly but for cast time instead of channel).

ZhuJiuyin

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

It would be nice if they made a set that buffed non-ultimate abilities with a cast time (like deadly but for cast time instead of channel).

In fact, there is a set of Soulshine that gives bonus spell damage based on cast time
However, this set is heavy, and the effect of 2 items is not ideal

But it's a really good direction
Sets based on cast time, or electricity damage
Used to match Sorcer

Turtle_Bot

yeah, that set is horrible, it also buffs off channels too, so its not even unique to only cast time abilities.

OBJnoob

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

Oo. Interesting. I haven't heard that before-- good one. Question though... So would it still be interruptible? When blocking I mean.

Okay after thinking about it for a minute I see a problem with the plan. Sometimes you WANT to cancel a cast time ability. And my preferred method to do that has always been block.

Also... I dunno, lots of little things. Does every other cast time ability in the game get the same treatment? Might not be the worst thing in the world I guess, just as long as channeled abilities are left out.

It would be nice if they made a set that buffed non-ultimate abilities with a cast time (like deadly but for cast time instead of channel).

I dunno. There aren't many cast time abilities in the game. Nobody would use the set. Unless of course you just want to buff snipe spammers lol.

Imagine fighting a sorc that only dark deals and hardcasts frags. LOL.

WoppaBoem

Camohunter should also be given the buff on both Bars

Turtle_Bot

OBJnoob wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

Oo. Interesting. I haven't heard that before-- good one. Question though... So would it still be interruptible? When blocking I mean.

Okay after thinking about it for a minute I see a problem with the plan. Sometimes you WANT to cancel a cast time ability. And my preferred method to do that has always been block.

Also... I dunno, lots of little things. Does every other cast time ability in the game get the same treatment? Might not be the worst thing in the world I guess, just as long as channeled abilities are left out.

It would be nice if they made a set that buffed non-ultimate abilities with a cast time (like deadly but for cast time instead of channel).

I dunno. There aren't many cast time abilities in the game. Nobody would use the set. Unless of course you just want to buff snipe spammers lol.

Imagine fighting a sorc that only dark deals and hardcasts frags. LOL.

I mean it will be something for a magsorc build lmao, magsorc is going to be in such a sorry state next patch, so much for a QoL update....

emilyhyoyeon

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh.

Would it be really?

Anti_Virus

I think they should make crystal fragments and daedric curse deal shock damage.

Also I think crystal fragments should be instant cast now with some adjustments

katorga

OBJnoob wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I feel like they can probably take the cast time off dark exchange & morphs

The resource sustain cannot ever be made instant fast that’s way too strong tbh. But the heal could be made juicer maybe a stronger upfront burst heal and followed by a good sized HOT.

If they made it possible to block during the cast i think sorcs would settle for that

Oo. Interesting. I haven't heard that before-- good one. Question though... So would it still be interruptible? When blocking I mean.

Okay after thinking about it for a minute I see a problem with the plan. Sometimes you WANT to cancel a cast time ability. And my preferred method to do that has always been block.

Also... I dunno, lots of little things. Does every other cast time ability in the game get the same treatment? Might not be the worst thing in the world I guess, just as long as channeled abilities are left out.

It would be nice if they made a set that buffed non-ultimate abilities with a cast time (like deadly but for cast time instead of channel).

I dunno. There aren't many cast time abilities in the game. Nobody would use the set. Unless of course you just want to buff snipe spammers lol.

Imagine fighting a sorc that only dark deals and hardcasts frags. LOL.

For 50% of the Cyro population, that is all you need, especially during MYM. I was doing that last night in a keep defense, lol.

That said, lightning staff should buff dots, channels AND cast time abilities.

cpuScientist

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I think they should make crystal fragments and daedric curse deal shock damage.

Also I think crystal fragments should be instant cast now with some adjustments

Kinda wish curse atleast did full AOE damage when it blows up. And wouldn’t mind if frags did some splash or full splash when hardcast or something.

xWALK1NGxTNT420

Nightblade should have been just left alone.

The class has walked the game long enough in god mode..

For years they could walk threw attacks without taking damage from aoe.

Just because they can go invisible doesn't mean they aren't in front of you..

Just because you cant see it doesn't mean it should one tap a tank either.

Yet somehow unlogical things have been brought into the class to make it succeed in an unbalanced fashion.

So conclusion is leave it right where it is at and make it more brawler than bomber because that makes sense in this game.

Dk now that's just a dragon thing.. you did something right with the DK and the arcanist it just the glass canons are still out here.

cpuScientist

KNOW WHAT They can keep the pets double bar if they atleast MAKE dark deal work kind of like polar wind with a nice strong HOT tied to it. And a bigger initial heal ofcourse, so it is still high risk to cast, but now a solid reward. Would fit nicely with the 10 second time of resource sustain. Just squeeze a heal in there dang it.

Split dark deal, one morph gives the 2 offensive buffs it currently gives and the other buffs the heal up alot and adds a strong HOT. Both restore resource from lowest to highest and have the intial heal. PERFECT! I am a genius make it happen!

xWALK1NGxTNT420

cpuScientist wrote: »

KNOW WHAT They can keep the pets double bar if they atleast MAKE dark deal work kind of like polar wind with a nice strong HOT tied to it. And a bigger initial heal ofcourse, so it is still high risk to cast, but now a solid reward. Would fit nicely with the 10 second time of resource sustain. Just squeeze a heal in there dang it.

Split dark deal, one morph gives the 2 offensive buffs it currently gives and the other buffs the heal up alot and adds a strong HOT. Both restore resource from lowest to highest and have the intial heal. PERFECT! I am a genius make it happen!

i feel like they should double-bar pet and change the passive for the coming spell crafting of every class.

they really did something right here with the arcanist, it make far more sense than most classes in the game..

i can only hope they change every class to match this type of play style..

When spell crafting get released it going to need based stats keep us alive while using insane abilities that make the build personalities.

NyassaV

I do not recommend ditching Camo hunter/inner light in open world. In duels you can drop it but the damage it provides is very handy and you can pull people out of cloack.

MashmalloMan

Sorc desperately needs a passive that does something like:

For each pet you have summoned get X, if you have no pets alive get X.

Here would be an example of some numbers thrown in:

For each pet you have summoned get 500 penetration, if you have no pets alive get 5% damage done.

Penetration is a powerful stat, but it effectively has a hard cap in pve and soft cap in pvp. It serves as ZOS's scapegoat for high power, with low ceiling in a lot of their sets and passives making it a great option for players who want to stack pets, who also have less bar space. Giving them a pen bonus (like with Oakensoul) helps them meet their pen cap while not overbuffing them in all content.

Damage done is a much more versatile bonus, it's always useful. Non Pet Sorc gets a decent incentive and reward to go with 0 pets. This also means ZOS doesn't need to over buff core abilities that Pet Sorc's could potentially cause problems with. If you attempt to buff non pet sorc, it usually just buffs pet sorc because they use the same skills. The only way to distinguish the difference is by making a passive like this.

The core abilities are fine where they are. Crystal Frags, Crystal Weapon, Bound Armaments and Mage's Wrath are all powerful skills.

Liquid Lightning morphs and Haunting Curse are not great alternatives for a non pet sorc to use.

The worst offender is Daedric Prey, it's overtuned. It's providing too much for pet builds making it the only way to play Sorc now. It's esentially a bandaid fix ZOS implemented last year to curve Sorc's dps because it was struggling.

Just to cap end my idea.. after introducing a passive like this. Nerf Daedric Prey a bit, then add Empower to it and Major Prophecy/Savagery to Haunting Curse. FINI