Changes To Lightning Staff??

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Channeled damage instead of Aoe damage? Why?? Only two classes can make use of channeled abilities effectively- Templars, and Arcanists. Why change lightning staff to only aptly accommodate two?

Has anyone been able to test and see if lightning heavy attacks will be considered "abilities"? I have so many questions.

James-Wayne

Being a Templar main Im totally ok with this change, it also means the fire staff single target meta gets reduced on these classes. Previously every class had to have fire staff for the most damage now we have options.

Heavy attack builds work on every class so you have something I suppose

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

James-Wayne wrote: »

Being a Templar main Im totally ok with this change, it also means the fire staff single target meta gets reduced on these classes. Previously every class had to have fire staff for the most damage now we have options.

Heavy attack builds work on every class so you have something I suppose


I'm a former Templar main myself, and these changes don't make up for the butchery the class has endured.

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

Wolf_Eye

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

That's what I thought... Wow. What an unwelcome change.

Wolf_Eye

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

That's what I thought... Wow. What an unwelcome change.

Take my word with a grain of salt though. I don't know how number crunching works, so I have no idea of how to actually test this on the PTS.

Just in personal experience, it always seemed that HA were never treated as skills.

SimonThesis

I imagine this was a nerf to sorcs and a buff to arcanists. Sorcs and most classes have a lot of aoe abilities that were buffed from the lightning staff passive. I think the devs saw too many arcanists running DW/Ice staff and not Lightning as much.

Ratzkifal

It buffs damage over time effects too though, no? So it does include Lightning heavy attacks because they are calculated as dot damage. And everyone makes use of damage over time effects to some extent.

ESO_Nightingale

Ratzkifal wrote: »

It buffs damage over time effects too though, no? So it does include Lightning heavy attacks because they are calculated as dot damage. And everyone makes use of damage over time effects to some extent.

That's literally the strongest part of it lol

jaws343

Heavy attacks should get the channel buff.

But it also buffs dots too. So most ground aoes will still get a buff from the passive. As will single target dots, which didn't get a buff from the passive previously.

deejayvee

The Dev comment in the patch notes say this:

Lighting doubles down on turning your foes to dust with powerful over time effects and channels, including the fan favorite Heavy Attack builds.

So if it doesn't boost the heavy attack, it would be a bug.

jaws343

SimonThesis wrote: »

I imagine this was a nerf to sorcs and a buff to arcanists. Sorcs and most classes have a lot of aoe abilities that were buffed from the lightning staff passive. I think the devs saw too many arcanists running DW/Ice staff and not Lightning as much.

All of sorc aoe abilities are mostly dots, so they still get buffed by the passive.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Hmm, I suppose we'll see. Thanks for the replies, all. I'll keep looking for updates from in-content testing as well 👍

James-Wayne

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Being a Templar main Im totally ok with this change, it also means the fire staff single target meta gets reduced on these classes. Previously every class had to have fire staff for the most damage now we have options.

Heavy attack builds work on every class so you have something I suppose


I'm a former Templar main myself, and these changes don't make up for the butchery the class has endured.

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I've tested this on PTS and the 12% damage increase on lightning staff provides me about a 200 extra DPS compared to my 2H sword so it's a ok change but not amazing. 2H buffs all skills on my bar not just channeled ones so I'll stick with 2H.

I agree they don't make up for the butcher work in previous patches not even close.

Tyrant_Tim

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Channeled damage instead of Aoe damage? Why?? Only two classes can make use of channeled abilities effectively- Templars, and Arcanists. Why change lightning staff to only aptly accommodate two?

Has anyone been able to test and see if lightning heavy attacks will be considered "abilities"? I have so many questions.

Every class can run damage-over-time which is the other side of this change.

They should have made Inferno Staff into channels and damage over time while having Lightning Staff with direct damage while keeping it’s area damage.

This new way they’ve changed Staves is bizarre to say the least.

Atrael7

As one of the probably two remaining Magcro enjoyers in Cyrodiil, the changing of Lightning Staff bonus aoe damage hits hard.. That's Blastbones, Dawnbreaker and Scythe all gutted indirectly.

Faint_One

Also，some lightning staff’s skill is aoe direct designed like pulsar and clench，now they do a counter change

Syiccal

Those saying it's a buff to arc are wrong it's a nerf to anyone using the lightning staff as it no loner buffs Flail or initial hit of any aoe. Further the staff already buffed the beam by 10% so 2% extra won't make up for the loss of added dmg to other aoe skills.. maces will still be top tier weapons and staff will still be used by those that don't want to play the meta
* from a pvp perspective
* pve daggers still remain the best imo

Faint_One

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Channeled damage instead of Aoe damage? Why?? Only two classes can make use of channeled abilities effectively- Templars, and Arcanists. Why change lightning staff to only aptly accommodate two?

Has anyone been able to test and see if lightning heavy attacks will be considered "abilities"? I have so many questions.

Every class can run damage-over-time which is the other side of this change.

They should have made Inferno Staff into channels and damage over time while having Lightning Staff with direct damage while keeping it’s area damage.

This new way they’ve changed Staves is bizarre to say the least.

Agreed，but Dot/direct is an another type of single/AOE，not a big change
They want inferno to be like a status or elemental choice，so let the damage increase not only effect status damage but all damage done like stagger
or should be say “all your damage deal （like）200 addition flame damage”
Same lightning the want it to be a channel/dor launcher，that can be “when you deal same damage in 2 seconds，damage of that skill increase up to a percentage” to match dot、channel、all kind of spam（if u spam）but not for some one shot high damage like Crystal
I don't know why they designed so bad

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Syiccal wrote: »

Those saying it's a buff to arc are wrong it's a nerf to anyone using the lightning staff as it no loner buffs Flail or initial hit of any aoe. Further the staff already buffed the beam by 10% so 2% extra won't make up for the loss of added dmg to other aoe skills.. maces will still be top tier weapons and staff will still be used by those that don't want to play the meta
* from a pvp perspective
* pve daggers still remain the best imo

Good point.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Atrael7 wrote: »

As one of the probably two remaining Magcro enjoyers in Cyrodiil, the changing of Lightning Staff bonus aoe damage hits hard.. That's Blastbones, Dawnbreaker and Scythe all gutted indirectly.

I'll be feeling the effects of that on my necromancer, as well.

ADarklore

I'm really surprised so many people are surprised at this change... this was coming for years now. With the overwhelming majority of magicka players running lightning staff, anyone who has played ESO for long enough knows that ZOS doesn't like people only using one specific weapon or skill. To shift the meta, they typically nerf the most used one while also believing they are buffing the other options- which 9x out of 10 usually isn't the case.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm really surprised so many people are surprised at this change... this was coming for years now. With the overwhelming majority of magicka players running lightning staff, anyone who has played ESO for long enough knows that ZOS doesn't like people only using one specific weapon or skill. To shift the meta, they typically nerf the most used one while also believing they are buffing the other options- which 9x out of 10 usually isn't the case.

Surprised? Not really. Disappointed? As I always am. The changes to destruction staff are probably going to hit me as hard as anything ever has since the Templar gutting, if what I'm hearing here is accurate.

Seraphayel

What I find bizarre is giving Flame Staff a new DoT while Lightning Staff buffs DoT damage now. Like…? It should have been the opposite in my opinion.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Seraphayel wrote: »

What I find bizarre is giving Flame Staff a new DoT while Lightning Staff buffs DoT damage now. Like…? It should have been the opposite in my opinion.

Very true! It does seem very counter productive. Who are these changes helping?

Major_Soulless

This is the one gift we templar players got from this planned update so im not going to complain.

I know a lot of sorcs use Lightning staff are they going to be ok with this change>

Varana

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm really surprised so many people are surprised at this change... this was coming for years now. With the overwhelming majority of magicka players running lightning staff, anyone who has played ESO for long enough knows that ZOS doesn't like people only using one specific weapon or skill. To shift the meta, they typically nerf the most used one while also believing they are buffing the other options- which 9x out of 10 usually isn't the case.

But only in PvP, I guess?
Because in PvE, flame staff has ruled supreme for years and years, and only recently have people switched to daggers for traditional builds and lightning staff for HA builds.

CameraBeardThePirate

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

Lightning heavy attacks ARE considered channeled abilities. They're buffed by anything else in the game that buffs channels.

Jazraena

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What I find bizarre is giving Flame Staff a new DoT while Lightning Staff buffs DoT damage now. Like…? It should have been the opposite in my opinion.

Very true! It does seem very counter productive. Who are these changes helping?

This is what I wonder most.

Like, they're nerfing almost every mag build out there that wasn't niche, Lightning HA or already switched to Dual Daggers and further tank Staff burst in PvP, probably enable some wacky Vate Staff Burst option in PvP they hadn't foreseen, and... for what?

What is the design intent here? Because the only thing I'm reading is "Please don't use staves".

ApoAlaia

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

Lightning heavy attacks ARE considered channeled abilities. They're buffed by anything else in the game that buffs channels.

I am really, really confused.

I was operating under the impression that the final tick of the lightning staff heavy attack was 'flagged' as AoE damage?

This is why Deadly wasn't all that great with HA builds, because it didn't buff the last tick.

Furthermore the change to the lightning staff passive seems nonsensical? It buffs channelled/DoT attacks but not AoE attacks so it doesn't buff the final tick?

Can someone shed some light on this?

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

ApoAlaia wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

But, to the main point... are lightning staff heavy attacks considered "abilities"? Will they work with the new changes? That would at least slightly ease me. Only slightly.

I don't think heavy attacks are considered abilities. So this buff wouldn't do anything to boost lightning staff HA damage. In short, the staff passive was nerfed as to be useless.

Lightning heavy attacks ARE considered channeled abilities. They're buffed by anything else in the game that buffs channels.

I am really, really confused.

I was operating under the impression that the final tick of the lightning staff heavy attack was 'flagged' as AoE damage?

This is why Deadly wasn't all that great with HA builds, because it didn't buff the last tick.

Furthermore the change to the lightning staff passive seems nonsensical? It buffs channelled/DoT attacks but not AoE attacks so it doesn't buff the final tick?

Can someone shed some light on this?

I, too, was thinking the exact same thing.