Nerf Vate staff, Masters Dual wield, Relequen, Zaan, Maarselok..

Overamera

Please Zoz do something about this meta. This PvP event would have been so much more enjoyable if there wasn't a sorc with these procs sets around every corner.

KiltMaster

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

Overamera

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

You’re probably using those sets lol. Im not complaining because ive died to someone but because of the terrible balance in pvp when it comes to these procs.

LittlePinkDot

Overamera wrote: »

Please Zoz do something about this meta. This PvP event would have been so much more enjoyable if there wasn't a sorc with these procs sets around every corner.

How did they get Zaan to proc??
I went through all the trouble to get Zaan, and it never procs.
I've even tested it on monster's by spamming light attacks, I can see crits happening, but Zaan never procs.

KiltMaster

Overamera wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

You’re probably using those sets lol. Im not complaining because ive died to someone but because of the terrible balance in pvp when it comes to these procs.

Actually, I don't. I run a pull build on my templar that doesn't use any of those sets.

However, it's useful to remember that these sets are used in PVE as well. Just because you're having issues in PVP, requesting a nerf would also affect them on the other side of the game. Which isn't fair to ppl who don't use them.

EDIT: If you don't like procs, you can always go to the no proc server?

Oblivion_Protocol

I spent days at a time in Cyro and IC during the event, encountering multiple toons with Vate/Masters dual wield/Zaan/Maarselok. With the notable exception of React (who doesn’t even use Vate), I consistently killed 95% of them.

I’m not necessarily trying to said “git gud”. But, there are ways around these things. I’ve killed them most consistently on my Templar, and I’ve sent them Streaking off into the horizon with my Warden.

I would rather have a situation where people learn to deal with or counter things than a system where we just nerf things. Because, in case you hadn’t noticed, every time something gets nerfed, people find a replacement that then gets complained about and the cycle starts all over again.

merpins

Rather than nerfing what's good, I'd suggest buffing everything that's bad, both for PVP and PVE. There are so many sets in the game, and ZoS just keeps releasing garbage with the occasional ok stuff. They should use some of that time that they're planning on using for game balancing and bug fixing to go back through all the sets, and make everything worthwhile.

Make the meta for both PVE and PVP as diverse as possible. Make me want to use Unfathomable Darkness + Ashen Grip as much as I like using Pillars of Nirn + Relequen.

Alchimiste1

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

Please Zoz do something about this meta. This PvP event would have been so much more enjoyable if there wasn't a sorc with these procs sets around every corner.

How did they get Zaan to proc??
I went through all the trouble to get Zaan, and it never procs.
I've even tested it on monster's by spamming light attacks, I can see crits happening, but Zaan never procs.

That’s strange , mine procs almost back to back. Guess you got a faulty one lol

Bushido2513

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

Not really the case because when something pops up at an unusually high rate in a game across multiple classes then it's a possible sign that the diversity of the game is being thrown off.

But I'll also say that it's not just about nerfs but also a call to make class skills or just other variations of things more interesting to run.

Free damage and stacking free damage should always be kept in check though not just with nerfs.

LittlePinkDot

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

Please Zoz do something about this meta. This PvP event would have been so much more enjoyable if there wasn't a sorc with these procs sets around every corner.

How did they get Zaan to proc??
I went through all the trouble to get Zaan, and it never procs.
I've even tested it on monster's by spamming light attacks, I can see crits happening, but Zaan never procs.

That’s strange , mine procs almost back to back. Guess you got a faulty one lol

Never seen in proc once.
Never seen it proc against me either in PvP come to think of it. Never seen it once on my death recap either.

I dont have Marselok so I can't speak about that one.
But Velidreth and Valkyn Skoria barely ever proc.
If your life follows murphy's law, the only time you see it go off is after you or the person you're fighting is already dead.

Wearing a defensive set like Bloodspawn or Engine Guardian seems to work all the time.

CameraBeardThePirate

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

Please Zoz do something about this meta. This PvP event would have been so much more enjoyable if there wasn't a sorc with these procs sets around every corner.

How did they get Zaan to proc??
I went through all the trouble to get Zaan, and it never procs.
I've even tested it on monster's by spamming light attacks, I can see crits happening, but Zaan never procs.

Zaan has a very low proc rate. It is a % chance to proc on crits, meaning it is a % of a %.

JanTanhide

No. Stop asking for nerfs. People spent a lot of time farming their gear and look forward to using it.

Overamera

KiltMaster wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

You’re probably using those sets lol. Im not complaining because ive died to someone but because of the terrible balance in pvp when it comes to these procs.

Actually, I don't. I run a pull build on my templar that doesn't use any of those sets.

However, it's useful to remember that these sets are used in PVE as well. Just because you're having issues in PVP, requesting a nerf would also affect them on the other side of the game. Which isn't fair to ppl who don't use them.

EDIT: If you don't like procs, you can always go to the no proc server?

Pull build on templar.. I see. What I'm complaining about is more about competitive/end game side of PvP. The people who duel on a daily or at least consistently. When you reach a certain level you see what sets are balanced and not. I strive for a more balanced PvP with balanced proc sets. Not procs that does the killing and most of your damage. So I find it funny when people think I'm complaining because I'm dying to these sets, says learn to play or "git gud". Or says play no proc campaign. NO! I wanna play with my CPs on and balanced proc sets. Because playing with no CP really makes a difference is builds like having to change race, mundus etc. Any good or experienced PvPer and by that I mean literally top players knows im right about these procs. 99% of the times people makes comments like that are just average players and 1% is a top player who enjoys playing those procs and doesn't want it nerfed.

CameraBeardThePirate

These procs (maybe besides Zaan) are overperforming - however I wouldn't call for nerfs personally.

The reason these procs are overperforming is because in the current tanky meta, they're some of the best (and only) real sources of DoT pressure. When all DoTs in the game were cut in half with U35(36?) pressure became a lot harder to fit onto builds. Because DoT proc sets weren't adjusted alongside DoT abilities, these sets became some of the best (and easiest) ways to add pressure into your build.

Additionally, Elemental Susceptibility has been way too powerful ever since it received changes. Status effects fall into the same boat as DoT procs as they weren't nerfed alongside DoTs, so they remain one of the best ways to add pressure to a build. Elemental Susceptibility activates Vat staff but also greatly increases the power of Maarselok and synergizes very well with Master DW.

IMO, these sets don't need a nerf. What instead needs to happen is Ele Sus needs to be toned down, and other DoTs need to be brought back up so that builds can have pressure without being forced into these procs.

KiltMaster

Overamera wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

You’re probably using those sets lol. Im not complaining because ive died to someone but because of the terrible balance in pvp when it comes to these procs.

Actually, I don't. I run a pull build on my templar that doesn't use any of those sets.

However, it's useful to remember that these sets are used in PVE as well. Just because you're having issues in PVP, requesting a nerf would also affect them on the other side of the game. Which isn't fair to ppl who don't use them.

EDIT: If you don't like procs, you can always go to the no proc server?

Pull build on templar.. I see. What I'm complaining about is more about competitive/end game side of PvP. The people who duel on a daily or at least consistently. When you reach a certain level you see what sets are balanced and not. I strive for a more balanced PvP with balanced proc sets. Not procs that does the killing and most of your damage. So I find it funny when people think I'm complaining because I'm dying to these sets, says learn to play or "git gud". Or says play no proc campaign. NO! I wanna play with my CPs on and balanced proc sets. Because playing with no CP really makes a difference is builds like having to change race, mundus etc. Any good or experienced PvPer and by that I mean literally top players knows im right about these procs. 99% of the times people makes comments like that are just average players and 1% is a top player who enjoys playing those procs and doesn't want it nerfed.

yeah I know it's not ideal but he's at 48 and I'm just tryna get him thru up to 50. The uh .... "I see" wasn't missed.

I'm just sick of listenin to ppl complain for nerfs every time something is decent

xylena_lazarow

Stop nerfing damage. Buff underperforming damage stuff.

Overamera

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

These procs (maybe besides Zaan) are overperforming - however I wouldn't call for nerfs personally.

The reason these procs are overperforming is because in the current tanky meta, they're some of the best (and only) real sources of DoT pressure. When all DoTs in the game were cut in half with U35(36?) pressure became a lot harder to fit onto builds. Because DoT proc sets weren't adjusted alongside DoT abilities, these sets became some of the best (and easiest) ways to add pressure into your build.

Additionally, Elemental Susceptibility has been way too powerful ever since it received changes. Status effects fall into the same boat as DoT procs as they weren't nerfed alongside DoTs, so they remain one of the best ways to add pressure to a build. Elemental Susceptibility activates Vat staff but also greatly increases the power of Maarselok and synergizes very well with Master DW.

IMO, these sets don't need a nerf. What instead needs to happen is Ele Sus needs to be toned down, and other DoTs need to be brought back up so that builds can have pressure without being forced into these procs.

IMO Id rather nerf these sets, because if not they will still be around. Instead of procs doing all the dmg, buff the spells from classes that needs it. Perhaps a nerf to cross heals would be good for the game but then maybe the tank meta would increase more since they wont be getting cross healed. You can still kill most people without these procs if you build correctly. When it comes to full tanks not even with these procs can you kill them. By other dots I hope you dont mean Dk dots, Dk is already S tier class and we wouldnt want to bring back the dot dk meta and make it even stronger than what it is.

OBJnoob

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

I spent days at a time in Cyro and IC during the event, encountering multiple toons with Vate/Masters dual wield/Zaan/Maarselok. With the notable exception of React (who doesn’t even use Vate), I consistently killed 95% of them.

I’m not necessarily trying to said “git gud”. But, there are ways around these things. I’ve killed them most consistently on my Templar, and I’ve sent them Streaking off into the horizon with my Warden.

I would rather have a situation where people learn to deal with or counter things than a system where we just nerf things. Because, in case you hadn’t noticed, every time something gets nerfed, people find a replacement that then gets complained about and the cycle starts all over again.

To a certain extent I agree. But I also wanted to point out that both classes you mentioned, warden and templar, have the ability to purge. Everyone isn't so lucky. They're also tanky with high healing.

Udrath

Problem isn’t really the sets, it’s the weapon/spell damage scaling and easy access to good recovery - multipliers make these builds strong. It’s not hard to get all the major and minor damage buffs either like berserk.

This is all from UPDATE 29:
Characters now also take 10% reduced damage at base, to reduce the loss of the mitigation from the Champion Point system.

Characters now also start with 1000 Weapon and Spell Damage regardless of your level.

All characters have had their base Health increased to 16,000, up from 8744 and their Magicka and Stamina has increased to 12,000, up from 7958

Reverting all these would change the meta so classes build to their strengths instead of using the same set ups. Also undeath and elemental sus needs to be reworked. Only fix I see is making arena weapons count as a mythic, but people would complain that limits build diversity.

Janni

While you're at it better also nerf: master 2hand cause everyone is using it, bloodspawn cause everyone is using it, earthgore cause everyone is using it, selene's cause everyone is using it, balorgh cause everyone is using it, vicious death cause everyone is using it. way of fire cause everyone is using it, ashen grip cause everyone is using it, hist sap cause everyone is using it, clever alchemist cause everyone is using it, order's wrath cause everyone is using it, forest wraith cause everyone is using it, deadric trickery cause everyone is using it, trainee cause everyone is using it, night mother's gaze cause everyone is using it, wretched vitality cause everyone is using it, agility cause everyone is using it, rallying cry cause everyone is using it, mara's balm cause everyone is using it (ok, joke's aside this one actually did need the previous nerf), plague doctor cause everyone is using it, winter's respite cause everyone is using it, poisonous serpent cause everyone is using it, scagvenging demise cause everyone is using it, blood drinker cause everyone is using it, deadly strike cause everyone is using it, draugrkin's grip cause everyone is using it, wild hunt cause everyone is using it, and so so many more sets that every single person in cyrodiil are all wearing all at the same time because they are all too op.

Jymmy

Instead of asking for nerfs, what I want to know is how do you actually beat this setup? Specifically when it is a stamsorc wearing vateshran ice staff, master dual wield, dragon's appetite, maarselok and sea serpents coil.

They negate the snare of ssc with orc passive, hurricane, quick cloak and streak.

Templar purge is expensive. Warden netch spam is too slow. It's not efficient to run a purge set just for these encounters.

Yes I know they are squishy, but their dps is higher than your hps making it hard to recover and counter attack. Can't even block heal when they use streak.

How do you shut them down quickly?

BetterAtChess

Jymmy wrote: »

How do you shut them down quickly?

By 'playing your own way' of course!

i.e. run exactly the same build and hope your dots melt them first.

Rhaegar75

Masters Dual wield is the only set which is heavily overturned: BGs are , in fact, a Masters Dual wield proc fest with every noob, pro, griefer, PKer you name it using them

The other sets are good but not unbalanced in my opinion.

Janni

Jymmy wrote: »

Instead of asking for nerfs, what I want to know is how do you actually beat this setup? Specifically when it is a stamsorc wearing vateshran ice staff, master dual wield, dragon's appetite, maarselok and sea serpents coil.

They negate the snare of ssc with orc passive, hurricane, quick cloak and streak.

Templar purge is expensive. Warden netch spam is too slow. It's not efficient to run a purge set just for these encounters.

Yes I know they are squishy, but their dps is higher than your hps making it hard to recover and counter attack. Can't even block heal when they use streak.

How do you shut them down quickly?

Yeah, I agree with BetterAtChess. You kinda just need to kill or be killed. If they get you into a loop where you are spamming your heal then they don't have to stop hitting you. You need to fight back hard and fast to get them to go on the defense. Doesn't always pan out depending on your build. But the one real weakness of sorcs is that they don't have the most reliable burst heals so if they are in trouble they usually need to pull off completely or go all in and try to win.

The_Lex

Bushido2513 wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

'nerf everything that kills me in the game cuz I'm sad I died'

Not really the case because when something pops up at an unusually high rate in a game across multiple classes then it's a possible sign that the diversity of the game is being thrown off.

This is the case for every...single...patch.

Reverb

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stop nerfing damage. Buff underperforming damage stuff.

Yes. We have a steady stream of posts with people complaining about the tanky meta, and at the same time we have nonstop posts with people calling for nerfs of the few effective builds.

We need more of these dynamic damage builds, not fewer.

PhoenixGrey

Reverb wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stop nerfing damage. Buff underperforming damage stuff.

Yes. We have a steady stream of posts with people complaining about the tanky meta, and at the same time we have nonstop posts with people calling for nerfs of the few effective builds.

We need more of these dynamic damage builds, not fewer.

We are talking about nerfing AFK proc sets which need to be deleted from the game and not just nerfed imo. Ever occurred to you that people build tanky because of all this free damage flying around ?

Ending tank meta is a super easy with just buffing the main burst skill from each class and capping max health while deleting all these free damage proc sets

StaticWave

I remember making a thread about Relequen being broken and got so much backlash for it. Guess I was right all along

CameraBeardThePirate

StaticWave wrote: »

I remember making a thread about Relequen being broken and got so much backlash for it. Guess I was right all along

TBF, Relequen is actually broken and needs fixing, not balancing, due to it double ticking.

StaticWave

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I remember making a thread about Relequen being broken and got so much backlash for it. Guess I was right all along

TBF, Relequen is actually broken and needs fixing, not balancing, due to it double ticking.

Yea, and I made a thread about that, and I got a bunch of back lash telling me that I needed to l2p. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635392/arms-of-relequen-is-the-new-savage-ww-and-needs-to-be-nerfed#latest

"I told you so" is very applicable here

Rhaegar75

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stop nerfing damage. Buff underperforming damage stuff.

Yes. We have a steady stream of posts with people complaining about the tanky meta, and at the same time we have nonstop posts with people calling for nerfs of the few effective builds.

We need more of these dynamic damage builds, not fewer.

We are talking about nerfing AFK proc sets which need to be deleted from the game and not just nerfed imo. Ever occurred to you that people build tanky because of all this free damage flying around ?

Ending tank meta is a super easy with just buffing the main burst skill from each class and capping max health while deleting all these free damage proc sets

I actually think this is one of the best ideas I have come across in ages: I'm baffled that I have not reached that conclusion myself. If AFK damage (love this label!!) was not so significant people would be less inclined to run tanky builds as their damage would be lacklustre