[NOT LONGER REQUESTED] Option to NOT collect Tel'var stones

AnduinTryggva

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

AnduinTryggva

Take note: I am not against being killed and losing telvars in IC.When I have a 1v1 and lose because of bad skill or bad build I am completely fine.

If I run in a ball group and die. That is bad luck and expected and it's ok if I lose tv upon dieing.

If I run around and stumble into a pair doing their thing (quests, bosses, flags) and they trash me it is ok and I am fine.

What is disgusting is that some players simply specialized and I mean SPECIALIZED in "farming" solo players, specifically during events. [snip] And to top this toxicity I have to pay them for them being toxic.

Also in Cyro one has gankers like that but they are rare while in IC they are a pest.

[edited for baiting]

CameraBeardThePirate

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

There are things you can do. Lots of things. Counters to ganking exist and they are plenty. Stacking more health, making sure your armor types and traits are optimized (having a heavy reinforced chest is a must on nearly every PvP build, for example), slotting different skills (flare completely shuts down door ganks while boosting your own survivability and sustain, and that's just one example), and practicing actually surviving. Knowing when to dodge, when not to dodge, when to block, breaking free quickly. Running with even one other player also does wonders for your survivability.

Lastly, don't just copy and paste a build you see online. PvP builds aren't one size fits all - most people think you can throw the same sets on and be fine but you should always customize a build and know why youre making those changes. Everything down to traits and enchants and mundus are all highly subjective and even "off-meta" choices can give a huge boost to survivability.

BlueRaven

C

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think the core of your mistake is that you don't like conflict in a game mode that is designed to cause conflict through Tel Var.

As designed, you get Tel Var automatically upon engaging in the PvE parts of Imperial City, i.e. killing mobs. You also get them from the PvP parts, i.e. killing players.

There's no point in setting yourself to gain 0 Tel Var unless ZOS also makes that visible to enemy players.

If ZOS did that, it might look something like a reverse Imperial Physique set, which normally grants powerful buffs in proportion to your Tel Var multiplier to account for the added visibility and risk you take while using it. A zero Tel Var set might be a stealth set that include debuffs because really, there's nothing lost if you die...

But crucially, what Imperial Physique does that a zero TV set would not is create the potential for conflict, which is absolutely essential in a PvPvE zone.


Since it's extremely unlikely that ZOS is going to implement this idea, let's talk about what you can do instead to reduce the Tel Var earned by players who attack you.

You can use a stealth build. I mean, if they can't find you, it's a lot harder for them to kill you...

You can bank your Tel Var before you leave.

You can avoid engaging PvE enemies unless necessary in order to reduce your Tel Var gain.

You can buy Sigils of Imperial Retreat or swap to a different campaign in order to leave and bank frequently.

I think the main issue is how unbalanced combat is in general these days.

There are players who can just erase other players in seconds, while others appear to be absolutely unkillable. Then throw into this blender, players who are not as skilled but who could be brought into pvp if things were things not so unbalanced or at least without the appearance of the odds that insurmountable.

Basically there is no middle ground. They tried it with “no-cp” and special gear rules, but it does not matter. People who are just unaware of these “rules” are just at a bigger disadvantage by not knowing them and coming in with poor gear/build choices.
They need to have an IC and/or cyrodiil that is protected from “combat experts” (a place for casuals) and there is no way of doing it.

So it all comes back to how bad the combat is in eso. The gap between top and bottom feels far, far too wide.
And I think it’s too late to fix it. The top end players who are well off now won’t stand for a change, and the casual players are just silently leaving.

VaranisArano

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

So I can't guarantee that you can survive a gank, especially not by multiple players. But there are some things you can try.

• If solo, use a stealthy build that reduces your stealth radius and crouch so you're in stealth when entering into new areas if you can. There was one time I snuck through a door right next to an enemy who was already crouched there. We looked at each other for a long moment and then attacked each other. It was great. Just keep in mind that on a stealth build, no one can tell if you're a ganker or not, so you might get proactively attacked if you're revealed.
• use a tanky build that doesn't look like an easy target. My PVP healer has 33k health plus resistances and impen, far beyond what most PVE builds have. You can probably get higher with PVE tank gear. It won't guarantee you survive, but it might warn off the gankers looking for obviously weak builds to target. Also, more HP/defense/impen = you have more reaction time to react to an attack, which is important for newbies.
• If you are visible, be obviously alert and expecting a fight. Use Detect Pots or Radiant Magelight to reveal stealthed enemies around you.
• Buff yourself before the fight starts. Hold block on the flags. As a PVPer, you might see us buff ourselves in the middle of a "safe" Cyrodiil keep - well, it's because we've gotten ganked in the back when we thought we were safe so we stay proactively prepared. Ganking is all about burst combos, so proactive buffs and HOTs help blunt that initial burst.
• React quickly - it'll take a while to get the muscle memory, but when you get attacked and you aren't expecting it, Break Free -> Dodge Roll -> Block -> Self-Heal is a good combo to get yourself out of the immediately bad situation of someone leaping out of the shadows to unleash their burst combo on you.
• Escaping - If you can survive the initial attack, you can look to fighting back or running away. Certain classes have better escape skills than others like Cloak and Streak. Anyone can use Invis pots. However, as someone who uses a pure speed build in IC, I'll say you can't outrun players unless you use Line of Sight to your advantage. IC is a close quarters, city zone with lots of obstacles and buildings. If you can put obstacles and walls between you and the enemy, that's how you actually outrun them. If you don't, I can attest that you'll just get shot in the back. (In Cyrodiil, we call it "Ring around the Resource" or "tower-runners" where people just use LOS to stay one step ahead of pursuit.)
• Get a group. Groups are harder targets than a solo player. Gankers may target the last person in a group, which can be countered by sticking together and not leaving people behind. Bombers may target the group, but that's countered by not using squisy builds, spreading out when you're at an objective, holding block, using detect pots and revealing skills to reveal enemy bombers, and proactively buffing/HOTs so you don't all die to Vicious Death.

I think it's important to note that I didn't "get good" at surviving ganks until I had a fair bit of PVP experience and that even now, a good ganker can still take me out. Everyone dies in PVP. Especially the PVPers. We die all the time.

But at the same time, it's not impossible for inexperienced players to play in the same area as gankers.

Option 1: Avoid them with your own stealth build.

Option 2: Look like a hard target who's not worth the risk. And if/when you get attacked, you'll have weighted the scales in your favor with a tanky build, proactive Buffs and HOTs that keep you out of execute range.

Option 3: Get a group. You watch their back, they'll watch yours, and if you can all manage to aim your damage at the same target, those gankers are going to run or die. Oh, and please, hold block when you're standing around because of bombers.

AnduinTryggva

VaranisArano wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

So I can't guarantee that you can survive a gank, especially not by multiple players. But there are some things you can try.

• If solo, use a stealthy build that reduces your stealth radius and crouch so you're in stealth when entering into new areas if you can. There was one time I snuck through a door right next to an enemy who was already crouched there. We looked at each other for a long moment and then attacked each other. It was great. Just keep in mind that on a stealth build, no one can tell if you're a ganker or not, so you might get proactively attacked if you're revealed.
• use a tanky build that doesn't look like an easy target. My PVP healer has 33k health plus resistances and impen, far beyond what most PVE builds have. You can probably get higher with PVE tank gear. It won't guarantee you survive, but it might warn off the gankers looking for obviously weak builds to target. Also, more HP/defense/impen = you have more reaction time to react to an attack, which is important for newbies.
• If you are visible, be obviously alert and expecting a fight. Use Detect Pots or Radiant Magelight to reveal stealthed enemies around you.
• Buff yourself before the fight starts. Hold block on the flags. As a PVPer, you might see us buff ourselves in the middle of a "safe" Cyrodiil keep - well, it's because we've gotten ganked in the back when we thought we were safe so we stay proactively prepared. Ganking is all about burst combos, so proactive buffs and HOTs help blunt that initial burst.
• React quickly - it'll take a while to get the muscle memory, but when you get attacked and you aren't expecting it, Break Free -> Dodge Roll -> Block -> Self-Heal is a good combo to get yourself out of the immediately bad situation of someone leaping out of the shadows to unleash their burst combo on you.
• Escaping - If you can survive the initial attack, you can look to fighting back or running away. Certain classes have better escape skills than others like Cloak and Streak. Anyone can use Invis pots. However, as someone who uses a pure speed build in IC, I'll say you can't outrun players unless you use Line of Sight to your advantage. IC is a close quarters, city zone with lots of obstacles and buildings. If you can put obstacles and walls between you and the enemy, that's how you actually outrun them. If you don't, I can attest that you'll just get shot in the back. (In Cyrodiil, we call it "Ring around the Resource" or "tower-runners" where people just use LOS to stay one step ahead of pursuit.)
• Get a group. Groups are harder targets than a solo player. Gankers may target the last person in a group, which can be countered by sticking together and not leaving people behind. Bombers may target the group, but that's countered by not using squisy builds, spreading out when you're at an objective, holding block, using detect pots and revealing skills to reveal enemy bombers, and proactively buffing/HOTs so you don't all die to Vicious Death.

I think it's important to note that I didn't "get good" at surviving ganks until I had a fair bit of PVP experience and that even now, a good ganker can still take me out. Everyone dies in PVP. Especially the PVPers. We die all the time.

But at the same time, it's not impossible for inexperienced players to play in the same area as gankers.

Option 1: Avoid them with your own stealth build.

Option 2: Look like a hard target who's not worth the risk. And if/when you get attacked, you'll have weighted the scales in your favor with a tanky build, proactive Buffs and HOTs that keep you out of execute range.

Option 3: Get a group. You watch their back, they'll watch yours, and if you can all manage to aim your damage at the same target, those gankers are going to run or die. Oh, and please, hold block when you're standing around because of bombers.

What about posting your build? I am running on a stam dragon knight on IC.

I thank you for being constructive and all and not toxic like some others but to be honest you tell me something that I already know basically. What you tell me is that I should become a 100% pvp player while I will always be a 80% pve players. It's about enjoying the game in all its splendor considering that I have to work and earn a living and can by no means spend hours and hours a day polishing everything out.
I don't know how much time you have spent recently in IC (well since maybe about 2 years). My toon is AD and I play during evening hours CET. AD during these hours is always low pop. Dunno why but that is it.
And then during the last three years I observe a twindling desire to form a group anyhow. Most "lfg" remain unanswered. It is a social fact that ppl tend to be more and more going solo. It get's harder and harder to get into a group. ZOS is realising that and implements in pve some answers to this that the tendency is towards more casual play. They still lack to pay the same attention to pvp.

SimonThesis

I would recommend staying away from internet pvp guides they tend to be outdated and very poor quality. Their choice of sets are often subpar. Your best bet is to get a pvp build from a guild, friends, or fellow pvpers. Many of us have given general recommendations for pvp builds.

Also if you were blocking with 35k health, major evasion+major resolve up, a hot on you, a friend nearby, and a reveal like magelight up gankers wouldn't as big of a deal. But everyone dies in pvp, you kill and die eventually.

Amottica

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Third in a row, sigh.

Each time you're asking for a no PvP mode in a PvP zone just keep in mind that you're asking for a space in a heavily limited player count zones for someone who isn't even having any intention to play the zone's objective. Obviously you can't care less about those pvpers it seems but it's not going to happen at the very least for this reason.

Mh? Did you read and understand?

I am asking to be able to CHOOSE to not being the victim of gang robbery in IC. Why can't you see that this is a problematic player behavior incited by this telvar mechanism? I even don't ask it to be removed. I asked for a way out off this as an OPTION that comes at a cost for the player who selects that option. It does NOT take up a slot, it does NOT mean not to be killed. It does NOT mean that players who chose not to have telvars don't work for any objective (which there isn't any other than killing other players or questing btw).

Yes, you're asking to have a spot in PvP campaign without any intentions to PvP or participate on even terms with everyone else bypassing parts of it (tel var gain and loss). If you feel robbed there, that's solely on you and your perception of it, as it is a PvP in PvP zone, no matter if that's 1v1 or 20v1, no one forced you to queue and enter. Learn to bank, or learn to not care about stones on you, as you insisting about not caring but still going about being robbed. If you can't secure your currency it's simply not yours, it's just digits in a corner of your screen. It's yours when it's already banked. And yes, if someone can outsmart or outnumber you it's a fair play.

IC is not a PVP zone that is Cryodiil, IC is a PvPvE zone as advertised by the devs from day one of IC's marketing. Since it is a mixed PvP and PvE zone you're going to have people with differing opinions on the PVP aspect since you're mixing PVP and PVE players making requests like the OPs completely unsurprising to me (yes I'm aware he simply wants to troll gankers with no reward received).

At this point I'd rather the devs make a strictly PVE IC instance for the people who don't want to participate in the risk vs reward aspect that yields zero telvar and AP for quests and kills rather than rehashing this tired topic during every Midyear Mayhem ad infinitum, and it also solves your issue with people taking up slots in a campaign. Let them earn their daily tickets in safety and then allow PVP players to earn tickets via PVP quests for all of the other ESO PVE events and call it a day.

You are correct that IC is a PvPvE zone which means it is not specifically a PvE zone. With the argument that a pure PvE instance can be made then we can have a PvP instance of other zones in the game. Since we know that such a change is extremely unlikely, and something I agree should not happen, then it is also extremely unlikely Zenimax will make a Pve instance for IC.

The fact of the matter is, if someone wants the rewards available in IC (or Cyrodiil) they will have to risk facing a PvP situation. It is clearly intended to be the case.

the1andonlyskwex

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

spartaxoxo

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

What's the difference for the person attacking? Are the people who don't kill mobs and bank their stones after a successful gank also denying others their just rewards?

the1andonlyskwex

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

What's the difference for the person attacking? Are the people who don't kill mobs and bank their stones after a successful gank also denying others their just rewards?

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards. Banking your stones is a simple risk vs reward calculations, where you're trading higher multipliers for more stability.

That said, the difference for a person attacking is that opting out of tel var stones takes the stones that you would have earned out of the economy. This means that there are fewer total stones in circulation, which directly reduces the number of stones that anyone else actually engaging in PvP earns in IC.

omgiztim

I play IC every day. I do it for the experience of the daily quests. I typically carry 10k telvar for the max bonus. I LOVE IC. I wish it was actually required you carried telvar to be able to pvp. I don't think you should be able to risk nothing yet gain everything. You want to pvp, great! You should be required to carry a min of 1,000 telvar in order to attack or be attacked. Otherwise you can hunt freely in the sewers until you reach 1,000. However, you can not enter the city level without carrying a min of 1,000 pvp. This would require gankers to at least risk something. It also would allow non-pvp players to collect telvar, but at a very slow rate.

Want to quest the city, get the skyshards, gain telvar at a higher rate. You risk pvp and losing some telvar.

spartaxoxo

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards.

No, the intent is clearly to avoid pvp by being a less worthwhile target. It's really not different to other forms of preventing telvar being taken.

Edit
An attacker not wanting to carry Tel-var is just doing it so if they lose, their opponent doesn't get any. I don't see a big difference between that and opting out. Part of the gameplay of IC is not knowing if the target was worth the risk.

I don't particularly like this idea because then the area would probably be flooded with people not really there to pvpve. But, no attacker is ever guaranteed telvar and this idea doesn't change that. So, at least it's trying to work within the PvPvE framework instead of asking for a straightforward PvE IC.

the1andonlyskwex

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards.

No, the intent is clearly to avoid pvp by being a less worthwhile target. It's really not different to other forms of preventing telvar being taken.

Edit
An attacker not wanting to carry Tel-var is just doing it so if they lose, their opponent doesn't get any. I don't see a big difference between that and opting out. Part of the gameplay of IC is not knowing if the target was worth the risk.

I don't particularly like this idea because then the area would probably be flooded with people not really there to pvpve. But, no attacker is ever guaranteed telvar and this idea doesn't change that. So, at least it's trying to work within the PvPvE framework instead of asking for a straightforward PvE IC.

An attacker doesn't know how many tel var you have until after they've killed you. Opting out of earning tel var wouldn't save anyone from getting attacked. It is only desirable from a spiteful perspective where you're willing to forego rewards just to prevent others from getting any rewards when they kill you.

From the perspective of the person opting out, nothing tangible is gained by the opt out. They're getting 0 tel var instead of whatever they would have earned otherwise and it does nothing to prevent them from getting attacked. The primary effect of opting out would be to give the person doing so the (spiteful) satisfaction that whoever kills them isn't getting any tel var for it, and the only likely secondary effect is (slightly) reducing the average tel var reward for engaging in PvP in IC.

At the end of the day, I doubt many people would choose to opt out anyway though. They'd be sacrificing however many tel var they would have earned otherwise (i.e. whatever they earn from PvE kills, or half that if someone kills them), without getting anything of value (other than the sick satisfaction of being toxic) in return.

spartaxoxo

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards.

No, the intent is clearly to avoid pvp by being a less worthwhile target. It's really not different to other forms of preventing telvar being taken.

Edit
An attacker not wanting to carry Tel-var is just doing it so if they lose, their opponent doesn't get any. I don't see a big difference between that and opting out. Part of the gameplay of IC is not knowing if the target was worth the risk.

I don't particularly like this idea because then the area would probably be flooded with people not really there to pvpve. But, no attacker is ever guaranteed telvar and this idea doesn't change that. So, at least it's trying to work within the PvPvE framework instead of asking for a straightforward PvE IC.

An attacker doesn't know how many tel var you have until after they've killed you. Opting out of earning tel var wouldn't save anyone from getting attacked.

No, but they'd know it's a waste of time to attack you a second time. The point of the suggestion wasn't to eliminate pvp entirely but to lower their value as a target so they could quest in peace. And it wouldn't be fun to continuously attack because they got nothing out of it. The OP doesn't have an issue with regular PVP, they have an issue with someone "farming" others.

Take note: I am not against being killed and losing telvars in IC.When I have a 1v1 and lose because of bad skill or bad build I am completely fine.

If I run in a ball group and die. That is bad luck and expected and it's ok if I lose tv upon dieing.

If I run around and stumble into a pair doing their thing (quests, bosses, flags) and they trash me it is ok and I am fine.

What is disgusting is that some players simply specialized and I mean SPECIALIZED in "farming" solo players, specifically during events.

the1andonlyskwex

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards.

No, the intent is clearly to avoid pvp by being a less worthwhile target. It's really not different to other forms of preventing telvar being taken.

Edit
An attacker not wanting to carry Tel-var is just doing it so if they lose, their opponent doesn't get any. I don't see a big difference between that and opting out. Part of the gameplay of IC is not knowing if the target was worth the risk.

I don't particularly like this idea because then the area would probably be flooded with people not really there to pvpve. But, no attacker is ever guaranteed telvar and this idea doesn't change that. So, at least it's trying to work within the PvPvE framework instead of asking for a straightforward PvE IC.

An attacker doesn't know how many tel var you have until after they've killed you. Opting out of earning tel var wouldn't save anyone from getting attacked.

No, but they'd know it's a waste of time to attack you a second time. The point of the suggestion wasn't to eliminate pvp entirely but to reduce it so they could quest in peace.

How do they know the difference between someone who has opted out and someone who just banked their shards? Also, it's usually pretty safe to assume that most PvP averse players bank whatever they have left after they die (and even if they don't, their tel var supply drops to the point of insignificance after only a couple of kills in rapid succession), so I wouldn't really expect it to change much even if the killer did notice.

Killing the same person repeatedly is already discouraged by the existing mechanics (at least as far as tel var rewards are concerned).

spartaxoxo

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

My main point is that the intent is different. Intentionally opting out of tel var stones is pure spite, where you're giving up your rewards purely to deprive others of their rewards.

No, the intent is clearly to avoid pvp by being a less worthwhile target. It's really not different to other forms of preventing telvar being taken.

Edit
An attacker not wanting to carry Tel-var is just doing it so if they lose, their opponent doesn't get any. I don't see a big difference between that and opting out. Part of the gameplay of IC is not knowing if the target was worth the risk.

I don't particularly like this idea because then the area would probably be flooded with people not really there to pvpve. But, no attacker is ever guaranteed telvar and this idea doesn't change that. So, at least it's trying to work within the PvPvE framework instead of asking for a straightforward PvE IC.

An attacker doesn't know how many tel var you have until after they've killed you. Opting out of earning tel var wouldn't save anyone from getting attacked.

No, but they'd know it's a waste of time to attack you a second time. The point of the suggestion wasn't to eliminate pvp entirely but to reduce it so they could quest in peace.

How do they know the difference between someone who has opted out and someone who just banked their shards? Also, it's usually pretty safe to assume that most PvP averse players bank whatever they have left after they die (and even if they don't, their tel var supply drops to the point of insignificance after only a couple of kills in rapid succession), so I wouldn't really expect it to change much even if the killer did notice.

Killing the same person repeatedly is already discouraged by the existing mechanics (at least as far as tel var rewards are concerned).

That's one of the reasons I don't support the idea. I don't particularly like this idea. However, I do think the problem that's being identified in the OP is more than spite. It's an issue that has caused IC to be dead outside of events for a while now. The risk-reward is currently way out of balance between the gankers/large groups and the solo/small scale players. And I think IC needs a revamp.

Better rewards. A better way to handle telvar. And better way to handle respawns as there are too many loading screens between players and a good fight.

VaranisArano

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

So I can't guarantee that you can survive a gank, especially not by multiple players. But there are some things you can try.

• If solo, use a stealthy build that reduces your stealth radius and crouch so you're in stealth when entering into new areas if you can. There was one time I snuck through a door right next to an enemy who was already crouched there. We looked at each other for a long moment and then attacked each other. It was great. Just keep in mind that on a stealth build, no one can tell if you're a ganker or not, so you might get proactively attacked if you're revealed.
• use a tanky build that doesn't look like an easy target. My PVP healer has 33k health plus resistances and impen, far beyond what most PVE builds have. You can probably get higher with PVE tank gear. It won't guarantee you survive, but it might warn off the gankers looking for obviously weak builds to target. Also, more HP/defense/impen = you have more reaction time to react to an attack, which is important for newbies.
• If you are visible, be obviously alert and expecting a fight. Use Detect Pots or Radiant Magelight to reveal stealthed enemies around you.
• Buff yourself before the fight starts. Hold block on the flags. As a PVPer, you might see us buff ourselves in the middle of a "safe" Cyrodiil keep - well, it's because we've gotten ganked in the back when we thought we were safe so we stay proactively prepared. Ganking is all about burst combos, so proactive buffs and HOTs help blunt that initial burst.
• React quickly - it'll take a while to get the muscle memory, but when you get attacked and you aren't expecting it, Break Free -> Dodge Roll -> Block -> Self-Heal is a good combo to get yourself out of the immediately bad situation of someone leaping out of the shadows to unleash their burst combo on you.
• Escaping - If you can survive the initial attack, you can look to fighting back or running away. Certain classes have better escape skills than others like Cloak and Streak. Anyone can use Invis pots. However, as someone who uses a pure speed build in IC, I'll say you can't outrun players unless you use Line of Sight to your advantage. IC is a close quarters, city zone with lots of obstacles and buildings. If you can put obstacles and walls between you and the enemy, that's how you actually outrun them. If you don't, I can attest that you'll just get shot in the back. (In Cyrodiil, we call it "Ring around the Resource" or "tower-runners" where people just use LOS to stay one step ahead of pursuit.)
• Get a group. Groups are harder targets than a solo player. Gankers may target the last person in a group, which can be countered by sticking together and not leaving people behind. Bombers may target the group, but that's countered by not using squisy builds, spreading out when you're at an objective, holding block, using detect pots and revealing skills to reveal enemy bombers, and proactively buffing/HOTs so you don't all die to Vicious Death.

I think it's important to note that I didn't "get good" at surviving ganks until I had a fair bit of PVP experience and that even now, a good ganker can still take me out. Everyone dies in PVP. Especially the PVPers. We die all the time.

But at the same time, it's not impossible for inexperienced players to play in the same area as gankers.

Option 1: Avoid them with your own stealth build.

Option 2: Look like a hard target who's not worth the risk. And if/when you get attacked, you'll have weighted the scales in your favor with a tanky build, proactive Buffs and HOTs that keep you out of execute range.

Option 3: Get a group. You watch their back, they'll watch yours, and if you can all manage to aim your damage at the same target, those gankers are going to run or die. Oh, and please, hold block when you're standing around because of bombers.

What about posting your build? I am running on a stam dragon knight on IC.

I thank you for being constructive and all and not toxic like some others but to be honest you tell me something that I already know basically. What you tell me is that I should become a 100% pvp player while I will always be a 80% pve players. It's about enjoying the game in all its splendor considering that I have to work and earn a living and can by no means spend hours and hours a day polishing everything out.
I don't know how much time you have spent recently in IC (well since maybe about 2 years). My toon is AD and I play during evening hours CET. AD during these hours is always low pop. Dunno why but that is it.
And then during the last three years I observe a twindling desire to form a group anyhow. Most "lfg" remain unanswered. It is a social fact that ppl tend to be more and more going solo. It get's harder and harder to get into a group. ZOS is realising that and implements in pve some answers to this that the tendency is towards more casual play. They still lack to pay the same attention to pvp.

I usually don't give specific build advice because I'm not a theory crafter and I don't follow the PVP meta. I know what's worked for me.

So, I don't think my MagDK Healer build wearing group support sets will be super helpful to you, even if she does fine for questing for me.

Instead, I'd recommend starting with a PVE thief build or a PVE tank build if you have one of those already.

When I was learning to PVP, I brought my PVE MagDK tank, put on Plague Doctor with impen traits for lots of health, and a Resto staff for healing. I still died plenty with 45kish HP because I was a newbie, but I lived long enough to figure out what I could improve on. While.defensive sets can warn off gankers looking for low HP targets, they also buy you precious reaction time because most casual players won't have the reflexes that experienced PVPers do.

I do want to acknowledge that it will take practice.
You know how you can't hand a complete newbie a set of Perfected Relequen and a training dummy and watch them hit top tier DPS? It doesn't happen because they haven't practiced. Personally, I've never had success just slapping on a meta PVP build unless I practice. Think about the advice I gave about proactively buffing or break free-> Dodge Roll, etc. That only comes through practice.

Now, that all sounds pretty non casual, I'm sure.

The way I see it, plenty of players who are mostly PVE players come to Imperial City to casually PVP during events. Many successfully get their tickets and get out. I'm not saying you have to become a PVPer...but I firmly believe that preparing for the inevitable PVP in PvPvE zones makes for a better casual experience. And since ZOS will probably continue to run Whitestrake's Mayhem twice a year, it's not like investing your time now to make a build for the event is going to be wasted unless you decide you're never participating again.

(I try to be constructive because I was once a PVE-only player who hated PVP until I very gradually learned to play and learned from what others taught me. Its a steep learning curve and I try to pass on what I've learned to make the climb easier. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink and all that.)

kargen27

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

The difference being for at least a time your telvar are vulnerable. You have to make it to the bank with them. I would take things the other way and not allow players to port to Cyrodiil from the districts or the sewer. To keep the telvar you should have to get them home.

VaranisArano

BlueRaven wrote: »

C

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think the core of your mistake is that you don't like conflict in a game mode that is designed to cause conflict through Tel Var.

As designed, you get Tel Var automatically upon engaging in the PvE parts of Imperial City, i.e. killing mobs. You also get them from the PvP parts, i.e. killing players.

There's no point in setting yourself to gain 0 Tel Var unless ZOS also makes that visible to enemy players.

If ZOS did that, it might look something like a reverse Imperial Physique set, which normally grants powerful buffs in proportion to your Tel Var multiplier to account for the added visibility and risk you take while using it. A zero Tel Var set might be a stealth set that include debuffs because really, there's nothing lost if you die...

But crucially, what Imperial Physique does that a zero TV set would not is create the potential for conflict, which is absolutely essential in a PvPvE zone.


Since it's extremely unlikely that ZOS is going to implement this idea, let's talk about what you can do instead to reduce the Tel Var earned by players who attack you.

You can use a stealth build. I mean, if they can't find you, it's a lot harder for them to kill you...

You can bank your Tel Var before you leave.

You can avoid engaging PvE enemies unless necessary in order to reduce your Tel Var gain.

You can buy Sigils of Imperial Retreat or swap to a different campaign in order to leave and bank frequently.

I think the main issue is how unbalanced combat is in general these days.

There are players who can just erase other players in seconds, while others appear to be absolutely unkillable. Then throw into this blender, players who are not as skilled but who could be brought into pvp if things were things not so unbalanced or at least without the appearance of the odds that insurmountable.

Basically there is no middle ground. They tried it with “no-cp” and special gear rules, but it does not matter. People who are just unaware of these “rules” are just at a bigger disadvantage by not knowing them and coming in with poor gear/build choices.
They need to have an IC and/or cyrodiil that is protected from “combat experts” (a place for casuals) and there is no way of doing it.

So it all comes back to how bad the combat is in eso. The gap between top and bottom feels far, far too wide.
And I think it’s too late to fix it. The top end players who are well off now won’t stand for a change, and the casual players are just silently leaving.

My two cents on the subject: i think you're right about the harmful divide. I'm not sure how much of its combat these days, and how much it always was this way.

When I was new years ago, I got erased in second because I didn't know what I was doing. I put on Plague Doctor and played more defensively, and while I still.died pretty quickly, I finally lived long enough to start learning what I was doing wrong. And now I can PVP with much less HP and still survive because I know what I'm doing.

Since I try to pass on advice to inexperienced PVPers, I see a lot of places where PVP tactics are opaque to newcomers.

Like, take your example.of unkillable players. Maybe they genuinely have an unkillable build that veteran PVPers would struggle with. Or, more likely, a new player simply doesn't know how to time their burst combo for when the enemy is weak rather than wasting it on their turtled defense, and then when their own resources are exhausted, the newbie gets absolutely destroyed by their opponent's burst. And they probably haven't had HOTs ticking, so once they hit execute range, it's all over.

Used to be, we learned these tricks from our PVP guilds. At least I did. But if someone doesn't walk them through the tactics, how are they going to learn? Just by painful trial and error?

I think that changes to group size and the death of the big PUG raiding guilds did more harm to PVP than ZOS anticipated, because we lost that place where newbies and casual PVPers regularly mingled with more experienced vets. Even the more hard-core PVP guilds used to recruit new players, but I can say that my guild stopped pretty quickly once we were cutting vet raid members to fit a 12-man group. It's really a shame, because for all that those guilds got mocked for zerging, they were a relatively safe way for inexperienced players to learn the ropes.

Jaraal

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. One of my favorite things to do is wreck people who try to gank me. They are usually glass cannons, as they have to build for max damage, sacrificing durability and survivability in the process. So, if you survive the first hits, you can turn the tide very quickly.

But how do I survive the gank, you say? Well, most gankers rely on critical damage and saved up ultimate, which can be countered by Impenetrable gear, raising resists, anti-player CP, increasing your health, and wearing defensive sets. The Sea-Serpent's Coil mythic gives you 40% damage reduction while at full health... which is usually your state when the gank occurs. Also try holding block when passing through obvious choke points or at quest locations. And there are many other good gear and strategy options, if one takes the time to find them.

VaranisArano

Jaraal wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. One of my favorite things to do is wreck people who try to gank me. They are usually glass cannons, as they have to build for max damage, sacrificing durability and survivability in the process. So, if you survive the first hits, you can turn the tide very quickly.

But how do I survive the gank, you say? Well, most gankers rely on critical damage and saved up ultimate, which can be countered by Impenetrable gear, raising resists, anti-player CP, increasing your health, and wearing defensive sets. The Sea-Serpent's Coil mythic gives you 40% damage reduction while at full health... which is usually your state when the gank occurs. Also try holding block when passing through obvious choke points or at quest locations. And there are many other good gear and strategy options, if one takes the time to find them.

You're very right about tactics for surviving.

However, to be fair, to an inexperienced player it really can feel like there's no winning against gankers. Especially for a PVE player who's used to rotations and having the chance to reactively heal from damage, not 3 second burst combos where if you drop into execute range it's all over.

I'm just saying that the OP isn't the first player I've seen talk about being ganked this way. I can believe it's true to their experience.

Like you say, the key is figuring out how to survive the initial burst. After that, you can figure out how to counterattack or escape.

Jaraal

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. One of my favorite things to do is wreck people who try to gank me. They are usually glass cannons, as they have to build for max damage, sacrificing durability and survivability in the process. So, if you survive the first hits, you can turn the tide very quickly.

But how do I survive the gank, you say? Well, most gankers rely on critical damage and saved up ultimate, which can be countered by Impenetrable gear, raising resists, anti-player CP, increasing your health, and wearing defensive sets. The Sea-Serpent's Coil mythic gives you 40% damage reduction while at full health... which is usually your state when the gank occurs. Also try holding block when passing through obvious choke points or at quest locations. And there are many other good gear and strategy options, if one takes the time to find them.

You're very right about tactics for surviving.

However, to be fair, to an inexperienced player it really can feel like there's no winning against gankers. Especially for a PVE player who's used to rotations and having the chance to reactively heal from damage, not 3 second burst combos where if you drop into execute range it's all over.

I'm just saying that the OP isn't the first player I've seen talk about being ganked this way. I can believe it's true to their experience.

Like you say, the key is figuring out how to survive the initial burst. After that, you can figure out how to counterattack or escape.

Of course. Experience and knowledge are the only way to overcome the gank. However, to say "There is ZERO you can do against them" is doing a disservice to new players, or to those who show an actual willingness to learn and overcome. The fact of the matter is, there are MANY things you can do to win the situation. And confidence is built with every little victory.

Kalle_Demos

This again? I've said this before here but as a PVE player who has only dabbled in PVP, who doesn't own a single piece of impen gear, who avoids meta like the plague, I've never had an issue diving into PVP environments in ESO to collect skyshards, do quests and acquire event tickets. Stealth is your best friend. Not once in all the years I've played have other players been able to stop me from accomplishing my goals.

Yes, it's really annoying being insta killed by other players. But the gap isn't impossible. I've killed two different Emperors thus far and have banked thousands of AP and Telvar. Thing is I know full well that I'm going in at a disadvantage. There is very valid criticism on the state of PVP balance and I blame ZOS for this, not the players who are just playing in the sandbox that is provided them.

Even if that wasn't the case, if real balance was a thing, PVP would remain a different animal. And it should. ESO is a game that provides entertainment for a wide variety of people with different interests and play-styles. The game is spicy and has flavor. Your request would leave it bland. As an MMORPG, ESO's very nature requires players to adjust to different scenarios. Players who's main interest is Housing can't just grab any old white gear and jump into Vet dungeons. PVE players can't join PVP and expect to be on the same level as PVPers without making adjustments. This isn't a FPS. You have to play the game.

Sorry, not sorry, this is very much a LEARN TO PLAY situation. Unbalanced as PVP currently is, there are things you can do to level the playing field. But I think y'all know that.

ajkb78

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Third in a row, sigh.

Each time you're asking for a no PvP mode in a PvP zone just keep in mind that you're asking for a space in a heavily limited player count zones for someone who isn't even having any intention to play the zone's objective. Obviously you can't care less about those pvpers it seems but it's not going to happen at the very least for this reason.

Mh? Did you read and understand?

I am asking to be able to CHOOSE to not being the victim of gang robbery in IC. Why can't you see that this is a problematic player behavior incited by this telvar mechanism? I even don't ask it to be removed. I asked for a way out off this as an OPTION that comes at a cost for the player who selects that option. It does NOT take up a slot, it does NOT mean not to be killed. It does NOT mean that players who chose not to have telvars don't work for any objective (which there isn't any other than killing other players or questing btw).

Players doing PVP in a PVP zone isn't problematic behaviour, it's exactly what is supposed to happen. Just because *you* don't like a feature of a game that lots of others do, doesn't make it "problematic".

If you don't like it, don't play Imperial City. Seriously: not every player has to play every aspect of the game. Personally I don't play tales of tribute, I find it slow and not very interesting. If you don't like IC there are lots of other zones to play in. And if you feel like you need to complete all the PVE quests then just grit your teeth, get them done with the minimum losses you can manage, and *then* never go back. Or if you know there are players waiting at certain chokepoints, use the numerous ways of sneaking past them: sneak-improving CP and passives, invisibility potions, be a khajiit, be a nightblade... Or just make a troll tank build and let them batter on you till they get bored.

BlueRaven

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

This again? I've said this before here but as a PVE player who has only dabbled in PVP, who doesn't own a single piece of impen gear, who avoids meta like the plague, I've never had an issue diving into PVP environments in ESO to collect skyshards, do quests and acquire event tickets. Stealth is your best friend. Not once in all the years I've played have other players been able to stop me from accomplishing my goals.

…

Keep in mind stealth just got heavily nerfed this patch.

AND as someone who has a vampire nb for the express purpose of avoiding combat in pvp areas… I have run into enough “quest location” campers in IC to know that personal experiences with avoiding pvp can vary widely apparently.

ajkb78

opalcity wrote: »

You don't get telvar stones for ganking enemy players at quest points in Cyrodiil and people still do that, so what's to stop them in IC?

No-one knows if the person they're attacking has telvar on them or not. The ganker could get nothing, they could get thousands. How are they to know that you don't have any on you?

Honestly, this sounds just like another version of a post that comes up every time there is MYM and someone gets got.

You go to IC, you know the risks.

The two biggest problems players have in IC is getting greedy/cocky and not banking often enough, and taking it personally when they get killed by another player because pve makes you feel practically unkillable and pvp is a bit of a shock to the system.

Sometimes I quite like the thrill of running around with 25k+ telvar, especially if there's a little farm group going. It adds to the spice when you know you might lose a significant amount if killed. (I usually chicken out at 30k though...) But if you do that, you should do so intentionally and be prepared to lose a chunk. Kind of like responsible gambling, set yourself a limit and hit the chicken switch when you reach it, and don't whine when you lose. But even when farming telvar I usually find it much more efficient to kill patrolling horrors than to gank players and hope you haven't bitten off more than you can chew.

Gankers just want to kill players, and they would probably get far more joy from killing someone for 0 telvar and knowing they'd killed someone who got so butt-hurt about being ganked that they turned off telvar collection than they ever would from collecting a few hundred telvar from a random victim. So even if the request wasn't counter to the entire spirit of the zone, it would just be counterproductive from the OP's perspective because they would give the gankers more satisfaction, not less.

spartaxoxo

I've seldom run into a daily quest camper outside of the memorial district. And that's because the boss spawns right in front of where the quests needs you to be as well.

Grizzbeorn

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Where I understand that this would not sit well with most people - being set up to be the butt of the joke for the amusement of others

They set *themselves* up by intentionally choosing to enter a PvP zone.

Necrotech_Master

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

Banking is part of the mechanic. Its pretty common to carry 100 telvars jumping in as you get the first multiplier.

But think not all know you can bank telvar. Was on an stealthy Khajiit NB one sneak set one DD set and ring of wild hunt.
Far from an PvP build, just stealthy and fast, and some moron tried to gank me, was not even low on health, dropped an ultimate followed by spin to win, got +10K telvar.
Cloak, sneak and run some weird place while porting to Cyrodil. Unless you have some idea that you are doing do not try to kill somebody in PvP unless you are with other players. That NB would not try to kill another players unless others was fighting him as it was not an PvP buid

I tell you what my experience is: I go into IC, do quest, try to get to another district and get ganked by 2+ players uncloaking. There is ZERO you can do against them. You even cannot outrun them as a stam player. They kill you within 3sec, whether you fight back or not. And I talk about be being a pvp build (fron internet guides) with buff food.

the gankers are actually much more prevalent during the event than outside the event

for an easy low difficulty quest i would do the one in the arena district, you can do that one without even leaving the safety tower as long as you have ranged dmg, just a matter of waiting for the npcs to respawn