The problem with addons and their mandatory use

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  • Hurbster
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    I would explain about the API changes every time there is a major patch but I get the feeling that it would do no good.
    So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.
  • SeaGtGruff
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    The thing about group content, is it requires group effort. [Snip] even if I didn't care about addons (which, largely I don't except for supports) I'd still not bring along someone who refused to ever use them, because that's someone who has decided the abstract concept of "playing the game the way it was meant to be played" is more important than the success of the group. I don't care about half the rules I make for a raid, but they do a good job at weeding out personalities I might find tedious to play with.

    [Snip]

    But seriously, I feel like the rest of your comments were in response to what I said about PVP-- Plain Vanilla Purism-- so I'll just say that I generally prefer not to engage in group play in the game. There are multiple reasons for that, but as far as your reference to "personalities" let's just say that I don't like herd behavior, nor do I like individuals who enjoy bossing others and micromanaging. There are times for teamwork and leadership, but if the leader requires (versus merely recommends) that specific addons must be used, that's wading deep into micromanagement behavior in my opinion.

    No thank you, I'll take a hard pass on that group and its leader. So it's okay with me that you'd apparently take a hard pass on me, because believe me, it would be mutual. :)

    And that kind of judgmentalism is probably the main reason why I prefer not to engage in group content in this game. I got the message loud and clear when I agreed to help a friend clear an arena and then two other players who he'd invited showed up, took one look at our characters, and immediately left because they didn't like what they saw. I got the message when another friend invited me to do a dungeon, I ported to where the group was getting together before queuing, his other friend silently conferred with him, and then he whispers to me, "Oops, sorry, I thought you were someone else." Hey, no biggie, I'll just go back to what I was doing before I put everything aside to answer your request for assistance.

    Recently I was practically dragged into a trial with fellow guild members because I was the only one who was a tank (although I'm really more of a half-tank), and the experience was actually pretty fun. I ended up leaving that guild because the guild chat started being flooded by members expressing their personal political beliefs, and I don't care to have my chat window filled up with that kind of stuff because I'm here to play the game, not to chat about politics. But as far as the group content and group experience, I had a blast and there was zero judgmentalism being shoved in my face.

    Anyway, the great thing about this game is that there is different content that caters to people who enjoy different things than each other, and the large population means that we can look for other players who share our preferences about which content we want to engage in and how we prefer to go about that engagement.

    [Edited quote and for removed content]
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on June 21, 2023 4:03PM
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Xandreia_
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    Add-ons are not mandatory unless you do endgame content then hodors, odys and a few others are really helpful to have, as for the pvp dodging attacks thing, half the time the people I fight are predictable, I can guess their next move and counter/dodge it. As far as I know miats has been toned down alot (that's the only add on I know of that would have done that) I don't know anyone who uses it tbh.

    I don't know where this hatred for addons comes from, if you don't want to run them, then don't.
  • maxetro
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    Xandreia_ wrote: »
    Add-ons are not mandatory unless you do endgame content then hodors, odys and a few others are really helpful to have, as for the pvp dodging attacks thing, half the time the people I fight are predictable, I can guess their next move and counter/dodge it. As far as I know miats has been toned down alot (that's the only add on I know of that would have done that) I don't know anyone who uses it tbh.

    In 4 large trials guilds, with at least 400-500 people in theirs discord channels, the addons I have listed were required to join the trials. One of them even required them for normals. Of course, I can't speak for all trial guilds, but 4 of the largest on a European megaserver is a lot.

    Are you a telepath? How can you predict moves when you dont even see your enemy? I specified that I saw how people dodged attacks from someone they didn`t even saw, from max distance. Like when they running somewhere without seeing me, I land 2 snipes from stealth and they dodge both of them with perfect timing.
  • ZOS_Volpe
    ZOS_Volpe
    admin
    Greetings,

    We've edited and removed several baiting comments as well as some back and forth from this thread. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Forum Rules. Please note that derailing a thread with off-topic or baiting comments will result in the thread being closed.

    Thank you for your understanding.
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  • Amottica
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    Sounds like there's alot of elitist snobbery in PC trial guilds. Glad to know I'm not missing anything.

    Not at all. Most raid groups are a fun group of people. Granted, a well organized groups will use tools available to them to improve their performance but that does not fall into elitist snobbery.

    My guess, based on experience in multiple raid guilds and even more raid groups is that there is a big misunderstanding of what the guilds are saying. Only one of the add-ons OP listed can be seen by other members of the group and helps coordinate ults, especially WH and the necro ult. For the rest, it would be mere suggestions to help the player. If they can do their job well, without issues, then the group would care less about what add-ons a player uses so the lack of using them would not affect their place on the squad.

    In reality, most raiders are some of the nicest and most helpful players in the game. Some of the top raiders have helped groups I have been in figure out how to clear the newer raids. Some of those top players have helped me with build and rotation advice which is not found in someone's "meta" build video as it was learned from their personal testing. In turn, some of the players in groups I have been in have helped others.

  • Xandreia_
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    maxetro wrote: »


    Are you a telepath? How can you predict moves when you dont even see your enemy? I specified that I saw how people dodged attacks from someone they didn`t even saw, from max distance. Like when they running somewhere without seeing me, I land 2 snipes from stealth and they dodge both of them with perfect timing.

    No lol, if you fight the same people over and over again and they do the same thing every time, you learn how people play. A few gankers I fight for example, actually suck casting cloak so if I see them for a brief moment, I know to roll in the next 2 seconds or so, sorcs, will have a purple flow to their arms. Alot of things have sound cues too. I've been playing pvp from the moment I knew it existed. Knowing how classes work helps too :)
  • Ragnarok0130
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    maxetro wrote: »

    In 4 large trials guilds, with at least 400-500 people in theirs discord channels, the addons I have listed were required to join the trials. One of them even required them for normals. Of course, I can't speak for all trial guilds, but 4 of the largest on a .
    It is logical that if the group's normal trials are meant as training and as a gateway to veteran trials that addons would be mandatory so the players know how to install and use them before going to veteran trails and so they also become accustomed to doing things like coordinating calling horns and colos before stepping in vet. One of the groups that I run with says normal is training for vet, and vet is training for hard mode. I suspect they also tell their players not to be in anonymous mode so they can look at logs and tell them where to improve.
  • RodneyRegis
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    You keep saying this. I've never known a guild or even specific run 'force' anyone to run anything other than hodor and discord. And as said, they can't anyway, just say you have installed it and don't.

    But if you then die to the simple mechanic that the addon would have signalled, don't get hissy when they kick you for not running the addon.
  • RodneyRegis
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    wilykcat wrote: »
    I never was a fan of add-ons that are used for online games. I like using what I got.

    I know there are dps tracking and/or ranking add-ons and those ones I'm not a fan of (it's a long story why that is and it started in world of warcraft).

    I don't understand why lots of guilds require players to use addons though. I don't sign up for those guilds that require them.

    Lots of those websites of where to get add-ons are blocked on my internet and computer because of security reasons. Also discord is blocked. I want to keep my computer and account safe so I choose not to install any addons used for in-game when online gaming.

    Discord and esoui are blocked?
  • SeaGtGruff
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    You keep saying this. I've never known a guild or even specific run 'force' anyone to run anything other than hodor and discord. And as said, they can't anyway, just say you have installed it and don't.

    But if you then die to the simple mechanic that the addon would have signalled, don't get hissy when they kick you for not running the addon.

    If players who have the addon installed can still die to the mechanic because they didn't or couldn't react to it quickly enough (or at all), and if the guild doesn't have the ability to detect whether or not players actually have specific addons (other than, apparently, Hodor), then why would the guild kick them for something they can't prove? Sure, guilds can kick members for any reason whatsoever, even if those members are obeying every single one of the guilds' requirements-- such as installing and running specific addons. But what I'm saying is, your argument sounds off to me.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • RodneyRegis
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    It is always, absolutely always, the person who doesn't want to be 'forced' to play a certain way who wants to force everyone else to adapt to them. Always.
  • rpa
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    When/if I find myself in a trial, I do what the organiser and leader asks to do. Cause I'm not going to organise / lead one myself, not even a casual one.
  • notyuu
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    The only add-ons I'd consider mandtory are
    Literally any UI replacement - base game ui while functional has a ways to go
    Awesome Guild Stores - Makes guildstores actually usable vis search and filtering functions
    Autocategory - Renders your inventory to not be a mess

    anything else is a luxary and/or fluff, not saying don't use them, just saying they aint mandtory
  • ZOS_Icy
    ZOS_Icy
    mod
    Greetings,

    After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

    Thank you for your understanding.
    Staff Post
  • Baertram
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    notyuu wrote: »
    The only add-ons I'd consider mandtory are
    Literally any UI replacement - base game ui while functional has a ways to go
    Awesome Guild Stores - Makes guildstores actually usable vis search and filtering functions
    Autocategory - Renders your inventory to not be a mess

    anything else is a luxary and/or fluff, not saying don't use them, just saying they aint mandtory

    This thread was not about "mandatory" addons that yout think could be mandatory for personal like, but about addons forced to be used within trials/dungeons, by the guilds.

    And in my honest opinion you can play each trial without any addon and also SHOULD do that if you want to have fun.
    Addons only help with the mechanics, show alerts and improve the damage output (which always is a thing in MMOs :MORE DMG!!!!!!). But they will not teach you how to play, how to read and react to boss chat messages, how to see onscreen effects where you need to interrupt or dodge.

    I know so many palyers who do not know what to do and how to interrupt and what those red fields on the ground are, that it's simply gets annyoing in the end. Blame the healer that she/he did not heal you enough whily you stood still in each AOE field? Well done :)
    Only 1 example.

    I also know that there are bugs in the dungeons and bosses do not annonce their heavy attacks properly, or effects are too much to see it properly. And I'm okay with using these addons to "have a chance" to finish it properly.

    But beside that all kind of dmg/heal sharing, and other sharing, or "you must install this or else we won't run with you" addons are nonsense.
    The game is playable without addons so using them is just a bonus, and ppl should remember that and try again to have fun, instead of making things a dmg raise. Watch the mechanics, react and imrpove on errors.

    Do not react on addons telling you "left", "right", "straight on", "block", "are you able to do anything w/o me telling you each step?" o:)

    So enjoy the game.
    If guilds force one to use such addons, search other guilds. I doubt they would change then for you :-( Which really is a bad way of gameplay in these times, but always was in MMOs.
    If there is a way, humans will use it, and expect each other human being to do the same.
  • Baertram
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    It is always, absolutely always, the person who doesn't want to be 'forced' to play a certain way who wants to force everyone else to adapt to them. Always.

    Well, the guilds could just say: "Okay, we use the addons, you must not, show your achievements, OK, come along!". But they wont.

    So it's definately not the way you describe it here, or am I wrong with that?
    Edited by Baertram on June 27, 2023 2:17PM
  • Baertram
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    rpa wrote: »
    When/if I find myself in a trial, I do what the organiser and leader asks to do. Cause I'm not going to organise / lead one myself, not even a casual one.

    I agree. Behaving the same.
    And if the trial wants me to use any addon I dislike, e.g. Bandits UI, I'll just leave the group and say "no thank you".

    But I can understand that some players got not much possibilities (due to gaming time available and server, e.g.) to find another guild or trial then. So if all ask for that and you cannot follow, you are borked and cannot play the end content.

    And imo using addons or not should not block us from that. No matter what the trial leads say there. They can fill up with the ones using the addons and if the rest do not want to use them, and they cannot find any others, run along with them.

    win win on practicing as addons are not the reason that trials work, it's the players!

  • WiseSky
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    maxetro wrote: »
    I have never used addons that change the UI because I think they are extremely hideous. They teach people not to follow what is happening on the screen, but to react only to text warnings. And some of them I would even compare to cheating. For example, those addons that signal incoming projectiles from the other end of the map, especially in pvp.

    But that's not the point right now. When I returned to the game and wanted to join the veteran trials, I was faced with the fact that all (absolutely all!) guilds require the installation and use of these ugly addons. You can have 110-120k dps, all key sets, know mechanics, have achievements for completing certain trials, but without addons, you simply won't be accepted into the group.

    How and why is it normal?

    I understand your frustration of what other guilds are making mandatory.

    I would love to join a Guild that make it MANDATORY to do trails and dungeons with a Clean UI and NO ADDONS that help you out.

    Would make the game 10x better in my opinion, nothing is stopping you from being one of the first ones that does not demand addons while making your own guild or in my opinion make it Mandatory to not have any addons with an almost non existent UI.

    I believe there are others who share this perspective, but it's more niche of a viewpoint. Similar to nature, you have the choice to adapt to it or take action to alter the established norms, but you cannot modify the fundamental laws that govern it just asking that they change because you spoke up and are pointing to them.

    If you wish to set a new path and option for yourself and others, it's your vision, you are the leader of it.

    Edited by WiseSky on June 29, 2023 4:00PM
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