[SPOILER] fight is pure ridic

BaggyGreen

So there you are, blazing through Necrom with a new character... and you get towards the end of the main questline... maybe you're Level 18 or so... and you've solo'd everything.

You're then confronted with a boss fight that I think would need at least several tooled up, max level characters.

How does this make ANY sense? Where is the fun in this?

The design of the thing is so bad that even if you decide to respawn at a waypoint to get away, it places you within range of

Vaermina

and you just get hit again and again.

Honestly, what sadist came up with this? It's cruelled what was a fun little adventure thus far.

[edited for spoiler]

Snamyap

Spoiler in title...

FantasticFreddie

Blame the people who wanted harder overland.

ADarklore

Or rather, how about the quest NPC that's supposed to give us the ability to fight her, actually gives us that ability. The problem is, the ghost keeps saying, "Use xxxx" but the prompt to actually use this ability rarely, if ever, appears. This IMO is a BUG, because it doesn't only happen during this fight, but other fights along the way. Every time we are supposed to be able to utilize the NPC companion's ability, the prompt rarely appears.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Can you pass this along to the dev team and have them look into it if it's not already known. This fight was a massive pain even on maxed level character mainly because the prompt for the quest NPC's abilities rarely appeared- even though they kept telling us to use it. When it DID appear, it helped a lot, but then the buff went away and we were stuck being told to use an ability that we couldn't because the prompt didn't appear.

BaggyGreen

ADarklore wrote: »

Or rather, how about the NPC that's supposed to give us the ability to fight her, actually gives us that ability. The problem is, the ghost keeps saying, "Use xxxx" but the prompt to actually use this ability rarely, if ever, appears.

I hear you on FM there, buddy. Not just in this ridic boss fight, but across many of the fights so far.

If I had that actual ability available, like I think it's supposed to be, I could do a lot more.

Did any one playtest this at all?!

ADarklore

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Blame the people who wanted harder overland.

It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the NPC quest companion skills not working as intended. Their skills they 'lend us' are meant to help us with these fights, but the prompts don't regularly appear so it makes the fights a lot more difficult. So we have to listen to the NPCs telling us to use their abilities, while the prompt doesn't appear for us to actually do so.

Maitsukas

BaggyGreen wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Or rather, how about the NPC that's supposed to give us the ability to fight her, actually gives us that ability. The problem is, the ghost keeps saying, "Use xxxx" but the prompt to actually use this ability rarely, if ever, appears.

I hear you on FM there, buddy. Not just in this ridic boss fight, but across many of the fights so far.

If I had that actual ability available, like I think it's supposed to be, I could do a lot more.

Did any one playtest this at all?!

I did the main quest line twice on PTS, once as a max CP template and the other time as my PC-EU tank.

The synergy worked fine in the first few PTS updates, but something changed in 9.0.3 that broke the ability to trigger Meln's synergy during the fights against the Hungers and the final storyline boss.

Grizzbeorn

ADarklore wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Blame the people who wanted harder overland.

It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the NPC quest companion skills not working as intended. Their skills they 'lend us' are meant to help us with these fights, but the prompts don't regularly appear so it makes the fights a lot more difficult. So we have to listen to the NPCs telling us to use their abilities, while the prompt doesn't appear for us to actually do so.

Same thing happens with Scruut. She's yells something along the line of "I can help you with this; Call on Me!" but the prompt to make use of her power very rarely appears when she says it.

BaggyGreen

Maitsukas wrote: »

BaggyGreen wrote: »

I did the main quest line twice on PTS, once as a max CP template and the other time as my PC-EU tank.

The synergy worked fine in the first few PTS updates, but something changed in 9.0.3 that broke the ability to trigger Meln's synergy during the fights against the Hungers and the final storyline boss.

Thank you. I feel less crazy now for not being able to do it on my L18 Arcanist even though, up to this point in the quest chain, I've been knocking through the content quite happily and enjoying it.

This seems to be the definition of a game-stopper for me.

emilyhyoyeon

can you edit the title to get rid of the spoiler please?

Sarannah

Did the necrom main quest yesterday, and had no issues using Meln's ghost vision, or any of the other specials(make sure to check where the ritual circle spawns, and run in it to activate the special powers or they won't work). But I did notice ZOS gave in to the 'harder overland' crowd, and made the fights more tedious. The mechanics of all the fights were fun and worked great, but as someone who does not do a lot of damage, the high health numbers were crazy!

PS: Absolutely loved how completing all the side quests before the main quest, added something special to the ending of the main quest!

Haenk

Wasn't there a marking on the floor you needed to stay within to gain that ability?
Either way, I used pets and Ember and simply ran in circles, and only rarely attacked. Which is obviously not a good method for a new toon. Which means this is kind of broken.

Cazador

Hi, console player here, could you change the title? The new chapter isn't available for us until next Tuesday.

Necrotech_Master

this isnt a new complaint, i know people who complained about this when summerset and clockwork city were released where they were straight up stuck on one of the near-end-of-story quest bosses

edit: also want to mention that back in 2014 molag bal at the end of the main story was originally considered a major challenge too lol

Fenris_Arainai

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: Absolutely loved how completing all the side quests before the main quest, added something special to the ending of the main quest!

This isn't a new thing. It happens with most, if not all chapter, starting from Morrowind and Vivec's big party It's the reason why I first do all side quests, and the MQ.

As for the boss fight: I didn't have a problem with it, but it was long due to huge HP of the boss. I'm sure it's an answer to all calls to make final bosses harder to make the fights more "epic" or whatever.

So it's now awfully tedious to story players or those who play as healer/tanks.

Sheezabeast

Maybe it's healthy to have something you have to work towards. Healthy for the overall game. So what if you can't defeat a boss at your current level and gear. It's a chance to feel some feeling of satisfying combat and completion.

FantasticFreddie

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Maybe it's healthy to have something you have to work towards. Healthy for the overall game. So what if you can't defeat a boss at your current level and gear. It's a chance to feel some feeling of satisfying combat and completion.

There is something completely ridiculous about meeting the big bad, listening to their whole speech, engaging in attack, and then leaving to level up and collect gear for a few days/weeks.

"Excuse me, sorry, I'm just gonna.... head on out. I gotta go get a new shirt and pants, and THEN I'll come back and kill you!! Just. Wait here. Don't continue destroying the world or anything, ok? Ok."

Dragonnord

BaggyGreen wrote: »

maybe you're Level 18 or so... a

So you want to finish the main quest of the Expansion and be the Hero of Necrom with a level 18 character...

Sheezabeast

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Maybe it's healthy to have something you have to work towards. Healthy for the overall game. So what if you can't defeat a boss at your current level and gear. It's a chance to feel some feeling of satisfying combat and completion.

There is something completely ridiculous about meeting the big bad, listening to their whole speech, engaging in attack, and then leaving to level up and collect gear for a few days/weeks.

"Excuse me, sorry, I'm just gonna.... head on out. I gotta go get a new shirt and pants, and THEN I'll come back and kill you!! Just. Wait here. Don't continue destroying the world or anything, ok? Ok."

I think the phrase you're looking for, is a tactical retreat. A completely valid tactic.

virtus753

Dragonnord wrote: »

BaggyGreen wrote: »

maybe you're Level 18 or so... a

So you want to finish the main quest of the Expansion and be the Hero of Necrom with a level 18 character...

The game introduced battle scaling for a reason.

Dr_Con

virtus753 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

BaggyGreen wrote: »

maybe you're Level 18 or so... a

So you want to finish the main quest of the Expansion and be the Hero of Necrom with a level 18 character...

The game introduced battle scaling for a reason.

and this topic shows you how silly of an addition it was.

Dr_Con

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Maybe it's healthy to have something you have to work towards. Healthy for the overall game. So what if you can't defeat a boss at your current level and gear. It's a chance to feel some feeling of satisfying combat and completion.

There is something completely ridiculous about meeting the big bad, listening to their whole speech, engaging in attack, and then leaving to level up and collect gear for a few days/weeks.

"Excuse me, sorry, I'm just gonna.... head on out. I gotta go get a new shirt and pants, and THEN I'll come back and kill you!! Just. Wait here. Don't continue destroying the world or anything, ok? Ok."

In all the TES and Fallout games, if you come across a boss you cannot beat, you either load a save or turn around and go elsewhere and get items, level, and gear and return when you can beat the boss. This timeline to beat the boss only exists in your head, remember that this is a game.

Necrotech_Master

Dr_Con wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Maybe it's healthy to have something you have to work towards. Healthy for the overall game. So what if you can't defeat a boss at your current level and gear. It's a chance to feel some feeling of satisfying combat and completion.

There is something completely ridiculous about meeting the big bad, listening to their whole speech, engaging in attack, and then leaving to level up and collect gear for a few days/weeks.

"Excuse me, sorry, I'm just gonna.... head on out. I gotta go get a new shirt and pants, and THEN I'll come back and kill you!! Just. Wait here. Don't continue destroying the world or anything, ok? Ok."

In all the TES and Fallout games, if you come across a boss you cannot beat, you go elsewhere and get items, level, and gear and return when you can beat the boss. This timeline to beat the boss only exists in your head, remember that this is a game.

im pretty sure thats "every rpg ever" lol

merpins

If you're fighting a

daedric prince

it should be pretty hard. But then again,

fighting molag bal

wasn't particularly difficult. But this sounds unintentional to me. Tough fights is something I've wanted in overland for a while, but not at the cost of more casual players. That's why I want vet overland, so you can choose.

Kendaric

Dr_Con wrote: »

]

In all the TES and Fallout games, if you come across a boss you cannot beat, you either load a save or turn around and go elsewhere and get items, level, and gear and return when you can beat the boss. This timeline to beat the boss only exists in your head, remember that this is a game.

Actually... in TES and FO I lower the difficulty and if I still can't beat the boss, I'll change the stats in the modkit.

Quite frankly, I play games to relax and be entertained rather than challenged.

TaSheen

Kendaric wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

]

In all the TES and Fallout games, if you come across a boss you cannot beat, you either load a save or turn around and go elsewhere and get items, level, and gear and return when you can beat the boss. This timeline to beat the boss only exists in your head, remember that this is a game.

Actually... in TES and FO I lower the difficulty and if I still can't beat the boss, I'll change the stats in the modkit.

Quite frankly, I play games to relax and be entertained rather than challenged.

Exactly. From what I read here and other places, there's not going to be any point to me trying to get through the Necrom MSQ. Actually, I rather figured that was going to happen, so all I really bought the chapter for was the new class. Maybe by the time my girls are over 160 CP, I'll be able to do at least part of the quest line. If not, oh well.

KlauthWarthog

Story quest bosses should not be designed a road block, as long as you get the story allies and plot devices.
The main character is not the only one in the fight.

Molag Bal was beaten because

you had the blessing of Akatosh.

Mehrunes Dagon was beaten because

you had the help from someone who held the power he nurtured on Mundus.

Nocturnal's ploy was thwarted because

you had the help from agents of three other daedric princes.

Making a final story boss hard to beat when you do not go through the required steps to get the expected support is fine; making it near impossible to beat with high latency even when you do go and get the allies and macguffins is not.
I do want more challenging stuff to throw myself at, but this kind of stuff needs to be separated from the main stories. Gimme moar solo arenas!

Dragonnord

Dr_Con wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

BaggyGreen wrote: »

maybe you're Level 18 or so... a

So you want to finish the main quest of the Expansion and be the Hero of Necrom with a level 18 character...

The game introduced battle scaling for a reason.

and this topic shows you how silly of an addition it was.

No, this topic shows you IT IS NOT INTENDED to complete the quest and kill that boss being a level 18.

TaSheen

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Story quest bosses should not be designed a road block, as long as you get the story allies and plot devices.
The main character is not the only one in the fight.

Molag Bal was beaten because

you had the blessing of Akatosh.

Mehrunes Dagon was beaten because

you had the help from someone who held the power he nurtured on Mundus.

Nocturnal's ploy was thwarted because

you had the help from agents of three other daedric princes.

Making a final story boss hard to beat when you do not go through the required steps to get the expected support is fine; making it near impossible to beat with high latency even when you do go and get the allies and macguffins is not.
I do want more challenging stuff to throw myself at, but this kind of stuff needs to be separated from the main stories. Gimme moar solo arenas!

Yes. But my huge ping means those devices for killing the final boss rarely if ever work. So still no chapter MSQ for me. For instance, I had to make sure to use F7 (to focus the blessing of Akatosh) in the Molag Bal fight and I was only about once out of 5 tries able to use it before it was down. It took me 7 tries on one account to kill Bal, and 8 on the other. I just won't do the Prophet quest line any more. I don't find it fun to beat my head against the brick wall of my ping. There's a lot of other fun things to do.

Oh, and Mulaamnir? The only saving grace with that fight was that his HP didn't go back to 100% if you died - which I did a lot because I couldn't get to the shield circle in time, due to lag from high ping. That was the most miserable experience of my entire gaming life....

I'd truly love to have "real broadband" - but this tiny town isn't going to see fiber in what's left of my life. So satellite is it. And so, no more boss fights.

ArchMikem

Ooh, a story quest Boss where we actually have to try? Do we finally get a bad guy that doesn't get burned down mid monologue?

Jammy420

Sounds like they listened to the fans wanting more difficult memorable bosses that were actually threatening.

I did it with picked up gear, lvl 23 and no cp alloted, using green lvl 15 food. It was the most fun I had on a boss in a LONG time.