Arcanist abilities too flashy

SilverBride

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

Kendaric

Shagreth wrote: »

The reason I love the class is because of its flashiness. If OTHER arcanists are your issue, then there's already an option for that, if YOUR arcanist is the issue, well, either don't play it, or wait for an option that reduces the brightness.

That "option" doesn't work for everyone.

Console players don't have access to it and it doesn't solve the issues with crux or beams from being near multiple arcanists inducing motion sickness anyway. So hardly a real solution to the problem...

Jammy420

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

thedocbwarren

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I think PTS is Beta only not design testing or UAT. I would imagine the feedback would need prioritization and estimates once gathers. Beta is much further down the release process. They would need to go through a design phase and UAT those first and also work with A11y designers to review.

Jammy420

thedocbwarren wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I think PTS is Beta only not design testing or UAT. I would imagine the feedback would need prioritization and estimates once gathers. Beta is much further down the release process. They would need to go through a design phase and UAT those first and also work with A11y designers to review.

Original pts was to catch problems early, report them, have devs fix before release.

Now its catch problems, report, be ignored a lot of the time, fix six months later. If they do.

SilverBride

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I assume that a lot less people played on the PTS than are now playing live. I believe that continued feedback is important.

Dreaders123

thedocbwarren wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I think PTS is Beta only not design testing or UAT. I would imagine the feedback would need prioritization and estimates once gathers. Beta is much further down the release process. They would need to go through a design phase and UAT those first and also work with A11y designers to review.

This is what I believe is the problem https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635489/why-you-should-all-support-accessibility#latest

kumenit_taeynav

Dreaders123 wrote: »

thedocbwarren wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I think PTS is Beta only not design testing or UAT. I would imagine the feedback would need prioritization and estimates once gathers. Beta is much further down the release process. They would need to go through a design phase and UAT those first and also work with A11y designers to review.

This is what I believe is the problem https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635489/why-you-should-all-support-accessibility#latest

i gotta agree with you on this. my issue here isnt about the colours or the aesthetic but the fact its literally in the way of key mechanics in combat such as aoe circles. if zos had perhaps thought of epilepsy/photo sensitivity thered likely already be a toggle to tone abilities down and i wouldnt have an issue even tho im not having a physical reaction like an epileptic might. accessibility really does help everyone, regardless if they have a disability or not.

in regards to the colour palette tho. if im not mistaken here the Arcanist ultimately gets their powers from Hermaeus Mora. the various greens ive seen absolutely fit with the aesthetic of Hermaeus Mora and his realm of Appcrypha as it was presented in tes5s Dragonborn DLC. there is actually a reason why there are some ugly greens in the Arcanists abilities. perhaps by thinking of accesibility first zos wouldve given the people who dont like the colour palette an option to change it in some way.

Shagreth

@BalticBlues Please, stop giving bad feedback. Hermaeus Mora is a cosmically horrifying being, the spells match the theme, there's nothing ordinary and 'of mundus' to them. If you're bothered by the brightness of the spells, by all means, ask for an option, but don't mess it up for the rest of us that actually dig the visuals. Cheers.

Besides, male orcs running around with massive eyelashes and neon green bath towels doesn't bother you -- and laser beams do?

Dreaders123

Shagreth wrote: »

Please, stop giving bad feedback. Hermaeus Mora is a cosmically horrifying being, the spells match the theme, there's nothing ordinary and 'of mundus' to them. If you're bothered by the brightness of the spells, by all means, ask for an option, but don't mess it up for the rest of us that actually dig the visuals. Cheers.

Besides, male orcs running around with massive eyelashes and neon green bath towels doesn't bother you -- and laser beams do?

That's not the thrust of the flags. It's an argument to demean genuine issues being raised and position them as unreasonable. It's gas-lighting.. There is contribution which attempts to explain the issues. I feel it's notable that many posts from those with issues take great care to highlight the preferences of those who like it.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

Finally a class that actually looks magical and some need to complain.

I LOVE the visuals and the Sound design even more. I wish every class would get a visual rework to be equally flashy

...So sorcerers who does lightning everywhere and can even turn into lightning, templars who creates magical light in all forms and shapes, wardens who makes glowy mushrooms and plants sprout up instantly doesn't look magical? How?

Shagreth wrote: »

The reason I love the class is because of its flashiness. If OTHER arcanists are your issue, then there's already an option for that,

No there isn't. Hence all the threads and comments about it. We can do nothing about it except stop playing, which is not a solution.

Shagreth

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

No there isn't. Hence all the threads and comments about it. We can do nothing about it except stop playing, which is not a solution.

The option to reduce spell effects of allies does nothing in the case of arcanists then?

And for the last time, I support the idea of putting an option in for the people that hate the brightness. But if you don't like the theme of the class, don't play it, it's such a silly thing to say that Arcanist doesn't match the aesthetics of ES. That ship has long sailed anyway.

morrowjen

I mean I was able to solo a Fungal Grotto at level 15 or so (I had a little help from Sharp but he was there mostly for the XP). Beam with its shield makes doing that a possibility. It's very hard to hate on a class that has that kind of survivability built right in.

I'm having some difficulty with the channeling because arcanist is so very different from normal dps classes. I'm used to light attacks and that just isn't happening with this class. However, this is going to be the class for people who can't (or just don't like) light attack weave because you can put out a lot of dps without light attack weaving mattering. I think their importance has been reduced to 1-2 percent of your total dps AND you aren't going to be wearing sets that proc off of LAs with Arcanist so really you don't have to weave at all if you don't want to and you'll still do great dps.

Yeah the propeller kinda sucks but you should in theory be spending that crux as soon as it is gained. IOW, we likely won't be walking around with as much once people have completed their questing and are doing more combat.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Shagreth wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

No there isn't. Hence all the threads and comments about it. We can do nothing about it except stop playing, which is not a solution.

The option to reduce spell effects of allies does nothing in the case of arcanists then?

And for the last time, I support the idea of putting an option in for the people that hate the brightness. But if you don't like the theme of the class, don't play it, it's such a silly thing to say that Arcanist doesn't match the aesthetics of ES. That ship has long sailed anyway.

No, you still see a lot of them. In all their extreme luminance.


But a lot of people don't hate the class, a lot of people like it but can't play it because they overdid the theme and did not do the effects well. Too spinny, causing motion sickness, too saturaded and bright compared to the rest of the game causing eyestrain and even pain, leading to headaches etc.

I personally ain't interested in the class so I'm not planning to play one, but that does nothing to stop all the pain and headaches I feel from everyone who does. I have barely played ESO since Necrom's release because of it.
Also, people can complain about the arcanist's aesthetics the same way people can say they like it. Just because the ship has sailed it doesn't mean we must sit quitely on the ship against our will and be quiet about it. Nor be okay when they want to throw neon sparkles into the water, make the sails out of plastic, or add graffiti on the sides of the hull.

etchedpixels

We've been complaining about the white flashes and photosensitivity for years. Nothing has happened. The only sparklies I can think of they did tone down a bit was the Deadlands.

I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

It's *not* about aesthetics it's about having proper control. I really don't care if you turn your personal arcanist experience up so far your monitor explodes and your speakers blow the windows out, I just care that I can turn you down how I experience you a bit, just like someone who is a bit shouty on discord. Right now the limited options for that don't help enough.

shadyjane62

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We are giving feedback so they know how many are affected by the flashiness and hopefully will present us with some options.

They got that feedback at pts and ignored it. Unfortunately its going to be a VERY long time now.

I assume that a lot less people played on the PTS than are now playing live. I believe that continued feedback is important.

Continued feedback is easily ignored on PTS which is why people quit playing it.

M0ntie

I’m playing an archanist. I love the effects but they could be toned down a little. I feel for people who get motion sickness from them.

whitecrow

The beam is bright but I don't think it's any brighter than the old soul magic skill. Can't remember the name of it.

I really like the rings I kept getting surrounded with by an ally. I have dubbed them Heala Hoops.

Kite42

I ran Vaults of Madness yesterday and had all three buddies as arcanists - it's too much at that point for sure, like I'm in TRON or something. Can't see half of what's going on either.

kumenit_taeynav

Kite42 wrote: »

I ran Vaults of Madness yesterday and had all three buddies as arcanists - it's too much at that point for sure, like I'm in TRON or something. Can't see half of what's going on either.

personally id just quit at that point and requeue later. the headache and obstruction just aint worth it in my humble opinion. hope you had some painkillers ready to go when you finished your run

gamergirldk

I love it all. Its fun and flashy

Varana

The point with a "Disable Effects" setting is that it is so ... broad.

I want to see skills that my allies use and AoEs that they create; in advanced content, I need to see them. Knowing where to stand, where to place the boss, where to put my AoEs so they overlap the group's, and so on. Seeing where the arcanist group member points their beam, can be very important for the rest of the group.

Which means turning them off altogether is not only a cosmetic thing but negatively affects gameplay.
What you want the setting to do, is tone down the overdone brightness of the effects, esp. in dark environments (like many dungeons). You want to still be able to see them if you pay attention but not be so distracting.
Also, as a tank, having three or more badly aimed beams all over your field of vision is simply horrible design. At that point, you want to have a Maw in your face just so it blocks the light show.

As a sidenote, I really hope arcanists get a -100% debuff on stealthiness while they have active crux. In overland, you can see their bright effects from halfway across the map. There's no way you can sneak up on someone in this state.

Kendaric

Varana wrote: »

The point with a "Disable Effects" setting is that it is so ... broad.

I want to see skills that my allies use and AoEs that they create; in advanced content, I need to see them. Knowing where to stand, where to place the boss, where to put my AoEs so they overlap the group's, and so on. Seeing where the arcanist group member points their beam, can be very important for the rest of the group.

Which means turning them off altogether is not only a cosmetic thing but negatively affects gameplay.
What you want the setting to do, is tone down the overdone brightness of the effects, esp. in dark environments (like many dungeons). You want to still be able to see them if you pay attention but not be so distracting.
Also, as a tank, having three or more badly aimed beams all over your field of vision is simply horrible design. At that point, you want to have a Maw in your face just so it blocks the light show.

As a sidenote, I really hope arcanists get a -100% debuff on stealthiness while they have active crux. In overland, you can see their bright effects from halfway across the map. There's no way you can sneak up on someone in this state.

Let the player decide whether he wants to see the effects or not, even in group content or PvP.

And players with motion sickness absolutely need to be able to turn certain effects off entirely (crux, beams from multiple arcanists, swirling healing rings).

I like the idea of a stealth debuff for arcanists with active crux

Starshadw

I'm really glad to see this thread, and other threads talking about the accessibility issues with regards to the Arcanist class.

I appreciate that the Arcanist design team worked hard on creating the class, but the VFX, as they currently stand, are unacceptable. Not only is there the motion/nausea issue, there is also the issue of their brightness and distraction. This is particularly impactful in PvP, where you must be able to see around you at all times. Last night, I died to some sort of green (and black?) glowing, writhing pillar of light that completely obstructed my view of my character and even a little of the area around them - which meant that I could see absolutely nothing, including the other attacks my character was receiving, and which I could have done something about had I known they were happening. Whatever it was, I could not move out of it (it moved with me). It might be purgeable(?), but because ZOS decided to introduce Plaguebreaker, purge skills are a no-no in Cyro, so I couldn't say for sure - and given what I just mentioned, even if it is purgeable, folks in Cyro won't be doing that to avoid blowing up everyone around them.

While there is the option to turn off ally skill effects, there's no option to turn off enemy effects - and you wouldn't want to do that in any case, as you need to be able to see enemy attacks (whether you're in PvE or PvP). So giving us a toggle for enemy VFX is not a viable solution to the problem. A hotfix to give us a slider to make the arcanist VFX somewhat transparent might be a quick fix until something more permanent can be found.

I really do appreciate the hard work of the folks who created the Arcanist, and I'm sure there are folks out there who are enjoying the flashy effects. But I'm sorry, the VFX in their current form have got to go from an accessibility perspective.

Braffin

Starshadw wrote: »

I'm really glad to see this thread, and other threads talking about the accessibility issues with regards to the Arcanist class.

I appreciate that the Arcanist design team worked hard on creating the class, but the VFX, as they currently stand, are unacceptable. Not only is there the motion/nausea issue, there is also the issue of their brightness and distraction. This is particularly impactful in PvP, where you must be able to see around you at all times. Last night, I died to some sort of green (and black?) glowing, writhing pillar of light that completely obstructed my view of my character and even a little of the area around them - which meant that I could see absolutely nothing, including the other attacks my character was receiving, and which I could have done something about had I known they were happening. Whatever it was, I could not move out of it (it moved with me). It might be purgeable(?), but because ZOS decided to introduce Plaguebreaker, purge skills are a no-no in Cyro, so I couldn't say for sure - and given what I just mentioned, even if it is purgeable, folks in Cyro won't be doing that to avoid blowing up everyone around them.

While there is the option to turn off ally skill effects, there's no option to turn off enemy effects - and you wouldn't want to do that in any case, as you need to be able to see enemy attacks (whether you're in PvE or PvP). So giving us a toggle for enemy VFX is not a viable solution to the problem. A hotfix to give us a slider to make the arcanist VFX somewhat transparent might be a quick fix until something more permanent can be found.

I really do appreciate the hard work of the folks who created the Arcanist, and I'm sure there are folks out there who are enjoying the flashy effects. But I'm sorry, the VFX in their current form have got to go from an accessibility perspective.

Although you make a good point by bringing up the need to see enemy effects in PvP, I still don't see the necessity to change the visuals entirely for all of us. A toggle/slider to remove the flashiness in accessibility options, so that only a mat and darker green remains, seems sufficient imo.

emilyhyoyeon

Varana wrote: »

The point with a "Disable Effects" setting is that it is so ... broad.

I want to see skills that my allies use and AoEs that they create; in advanced content, I need to see them. Knowing where to stand, where to place the boss, where to put my AoEs so they overlap the group's, and so on. Seeing where the arcanist group member points their beam, can be very important for the rest of the group.

Which means turning them off altogether is not only a cosmetic thing but negatively affects gameplay.
What you want the setting to do, is tone down the overdone brightness of the effects, esp. in dark environments (like many dungeons).

THANK YOU

Mrfroggy

Personally my only complaints about the arcanist animations is they should add darker shades of green & maybe some black to some of the animations/morphs to break up the monotony of having just one color for most of their skills. That'd probably help with the issue of people seeing the spells as "too flashy".

Fata1moose

Is it too late to entirely re-do this theme for this class? Make it a tome casting destruction mage not specific to Mora so we can have broader character backgrounds and tone down the effects.

I’m half serious.

etchedpixels

Disable effects is definitely too broad. A turn them down slider or button would be fine. For group content I need to be able to see what the other folks are doing especially in PvP but not be dazzled by it.

Redriamne

This is what flashy really looks like and what you could have expected in 2018 from games.

We're in 2023 and you're bothered that the Arcanist uses a beam that is graphically very much inferior to the one above. Have any of the people complaining see any effects of the jobs in Final Fantasy XIV? Guild Wars 2? If anything Arcanist effects are very contained compared to the competition, while also trying to push the graphics quality of the skills forward, without making it seem out of place.

Accessibility and spinning cruxes causing motion sickness for some people is one thing, but being like "I, personally don't like seeing green on the screen because it wasn't there during the past 9 years I played this game" and using the accessibility word to push one's point through is another and is just wrong.

I promise you this is not the only game which cares about accessibility, or which should care about it. Yet the others as in the example(s) above can have effects that don't look like they were made 20 years ago. This is an mmo. It's a business. To stay competitive on the market it has to stay attractive, preferably via compelling gameplay, but it's not the gameplay that people see on screenshots and trailers, it's the graphics. Nobody will want to buy a product where characters shoot pixels, considering all the other attractive options out there already and ones coming in the future.

If people playing WoW, GW2, FFXIV, Desitny 2 etc. can see what's happening on their screens, you can too. And if you know what's happening on the screen while doing group content in ESO, that won't change also. The only thing that will change is that aside from some yellow, blue, white, purple, red and orange you'll have some green too.