Can we please stop with the trypophobic assets?!

spartaxoxo

Panderbander wrote: »

I recognize not everyone has this response. All I want is for ZOS to recognize that in the pursuit of further edgelord art designed to sell products they are legitimately making this game unplayable for a minority of people and if they want to retain folks like me (who have played since beta and spent literally thousands of real world dollars on their products) they should at least try to accommodate.

I think it might help if you added this part to your opening post. The way I initially read it, it appeared to be saying it's not okay for them to design things like this at all, but from this post I gather you just want them to try to add some form of accomodation.

FantasticFreddie

Heartrage wrote: »

SithisKhajitiiLamae wrote: »

Seeing things like that and having an uneasy feeling is normal and possibly puking is normal too. I get an uneasy feeling looking at as well.

But Trypophobia isnt a real disorder.

If it was an actual disorder people who say they have it would be ripping off their own skin since our skin is made of irregular patterns of holes.

This is not how this work. Phobias are irrational fears. A phobia not including something that should be part of it’s category doesn’t make it invalid.

That it first appeared of 4 Chan or some nonsense 8 years ago does lend skepticism to its validity tho

Amottica

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

A minor toggle that allows mounts to be set as default is indeed workable, and would assist those who suffer from medical conditions involving flashing lights.

Please do not minimize phobias by calling them "just" a phobia. They are also serious medical conditions, albeit mental ones. The symptoms associated are no less real.

Thank you.

A seizure is monumentally more significantly than a phobia, which was clearly my point bringing up the flashing.

Further, if Zenimax were to create a toggle to deal with mounts in this manner to accommodate those that may suffer from this phobia then they must create a toggle to remove flashing lights. Otherwise, it would seem odd to permit something that can cause a severe and sometimes life-threatening reaction yet alleviate a phobia. Then Zenimax would need to create a toggle to remove spiders for those with arachnophobia. The list goes on and on if we are going to accommodate phobias.

So yes, it is "workable" but unrealistic. It is extremely doubtful they will do such a change since they still permit flashes of light and spiders in the game.

[edited to remove quote]

I am not going to argue the semantics of whether a seizure is more significant than a phobia with you, because the things I would need to explain regarding mental health disorders involve explaining themes which would likely go against the forums rules. However, I will say that phobias can be quite life threatening, albeit in a different way. Phobias can, and do, bring on severe physical health conditions as well.

Did you know that panic attacks can trigger an epileptic seizure, for instance? They can even cause non-epileptic seizures called dissociative seizures.

Did you know that those who suffer from seizures can also develop anxiety disorders in response to the distress caused by their seizures?

I am in no way attempting to minimize the severity of physical health issues such as seizures, but the two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I respectfully ask that you educate yourself in regards to the significance of mental health issues and their link to physical problems before making claims that they are more or less important than physical health issues. Both are of equal importance.

Also, I never said that ZOS shouldn't address concerns in regards to flashing lights. ZOS Should, in fact, create toggles to reduce the flashing lights in the game to assist those who may suffer from discomfort and severe health issues related to them.

While I in no way expect all forms of every issue in the world to be addressed (I never said I did, I even clearly stated in my initial post that there are so many variations of these disorders that we cannot possibly accommodate all of them) the company CAN do better, and make an effort to alleviate at least some problems.

It does not have to be an all or nothing situation.

and I agree that there is no point to argue what you call semantics. However, it is extremely unlikely Zenimax will offer a toggle for this for the very reason I stated.

CameraBeardThePirate

First, not trying to make light of any serious phobias whatsoever. Lots of people don't realize that phobia =/= fear, and that it can be far more serious than that.

However, this is an Elder Scrolls game. The TES universe is full of frightening beings and cosmic horror themes (especially in this expansion). It is completely unfeasible for the devs to make a toggle for any content that could induce a phobia. There are too many assets, too many factors, too many players. Additionally, I'm not even sure that kinda stuff could be handled client-side, so it might genuinely be impossible.

Again, not trying to make light of a phobia, but a player mount that you'll see less and less frequently as time goes on is a rather minor concern. If you're trypophobic, either avoid all the Hermaeus Mora stuff, or use it as exposure therapy. After all, research shows exposure is the best way to get past a phobia.

Olen_Mikko

Simple solution: don't play.

I mean not everyone can or should be catered. Problem is yours, not ours.

I don't like to hear any religious stuff, but I can't control it or demand people not to express their beliefs.

ZOS_Kraken

Hello,

While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and its community as a whole.

Zos_kraken

ArchangelIsraphel

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

A minor toggle that allows mounts to be set as default is indeed workable, and would assist those who suffer from medical conditions involving flashing lights.

Please do not minimize phobias by calling them "just" a phobia. They are also serious medical conditions, albeit mental ones. The symptoms associated are no less real.

Thank you.

A seizure is monumentally more significantly than a phobia, which was clearly my point bringing up the flashing.

Further, if Zenimax were to create a toggle to deal with mounts in this manner to accommodate those that may suffer from this phobia then they must create a toggle to remove flashing lights. Otherwise, it would seem odd to permit something that can cause a severe and sometimes life-threatening reaction yet alleviate a phobia. Then Zenimax would need to create a toggle to remove spiders for those with arachnophobia. The list goes on and on if we are going to accommodate phobias.

So yes, it is "workable" but unrealistic. It is extremely doubtful they will do such a change since they still permit flashes of light and spiders in the game.

[edited to remove quote]

I am not going to argue the semantics of whether a seizure is more significant than a phobia with you, because the things I would need to explain regarding mental health disorders involve explaining themes which would likely go against the forums rules. However, I will say that phobias can be quite life threatening, albeit in a different way. Phobias can, and do, bring on severe physical health conditions as well.

Did you know that panic attacks can trigger an epileptic seizure, for instance? They can even cause non-epileptic seizures called dissociative seizures.

Did you know that those who suffer from seizures can also develop anxiety disorders in response to the distress caused by their seizures?

I am in no way attempting to minimize the severity of physical health issues such as seizures, but the two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I respectfully ask that you educate yourself in regards to the significance of mental health issues and their link to physical problems before making claims that they are more or less important than physical health issues. Both are of equal importance.

Also, I never said that ZOS shouldn't address concerns in regards to flashing lights. ZOS Should, in fact, create toggles to reduce the flashing lights in the game to assist those who may suffer from discomfort and severe health issues related to them.

While I in no way expect all forms of every issue in the world to be addressed (I never said I did, I even clearly stated in my initial post that there are so many variations of these disorders that we cannot possibly accommodate all of them) the company CAN do better, and make an effort to alleviate at least some problems.

It does not have to be an all or nothing situation.

and I agree that there is no point to argue what you call semantics. However, it is extremely unlikely Zenimax will offer a toggle for this for the very reason I stated.

It might seem surprising, but I actually agree that this is not likely. Never the less, I felt it was important to state reasons as to why it should be taken into consideration, given that the developers have been taking strides towards making the game more accessible. Change doesn't happen unless requests are made for change. Giving up at the starting gate because someone tells you the likelihood of winning the race is poor doesn't help one to achieve any goals at all.

ArchangelIsraphel

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

First, not trying to make light of any serious phobias whatsoever. Lots of people don't realize that phobia =/= fear, and that it can be far more serious than that.

However, this is an Elder Scrolls game. The TES universe is full of frightening beings and cosmic horror themes (especially in this expansion). It is completely unfeasible for the devs to make a toggle for any content that could induce a phobia. There are too many assets, too many factors, too many players. Additionally, I'm not even sure that kinda stuff could be handled client-side, so it might genuinely be impossible.

Again, not trying to make light of a phobia, but a player mount that you'll see less and less frequently as time goes on is a rather minor concern. If you're trypophobic, either avoid all the Hermaeus Mora stuff, or use it as exposure therapy. After all, research shows exposure is the best way to get past a phobia.

Exposure and response prevention therapy is not something one can casually take up without the proper coaching. It can be extremely dangerous and psychologically damaging to do so. The condition can becone worse if exposure and response is done incorrectly. Please do not recommend that someone engage in a form of treatment without the proper assistance from a therapist or guide.

CameraBeardThePirate

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

First, not trying to make light of any serious phobias whatsoever. Lots of people don't realize that phobia =/= fear, and that it can be far more serious than that.

However, this is an Elder Scrolls game. The TES universe is full of frightening beings and cosmic horror themes (especially in this expansion). It is completely unfeasible for the devs to make a toggle for any content that could induce a phobia. There are too many assets, too many factors, too many players. Additionally, I'm not even sure that kinda stuff could be handled client-side, so it might genuinely be impossible.

Again, not trying to make light of a phobia, but a player mount that you'll see less and less frequently as time goes on is a rather minor concern. If you're trypophobic, either avoid all the Hermaeus Mora stuff, or use it as exposure therapy. After all, research shows exposure is the best way to get past a phobia.

Exposure and response prevention therapy is not something one can casually take up without the proper coaching. It can be extremely dangerous and psychologically damaging to do so. The condition can becone worse if exposure and response is done incorrectly. Please do not recommend that someone engage in a form of treatment without the proper assistance from a therapist or guide.

Sure, but there's a difference between, say, telling someone to go to the ICU to look at trauma patients for exposure and someone casually (and safely) exposing themselves to something in a game. It's not like they can't back out at any point.

Exposing oneself to the said trypophobia inducing assets will show them that it's just a bunch of pixels, with relatively little to no risk.

Furthermore, it's generally only dangerous in the cases of extreme PTSD and OCD treatment. Not saying harm can't be done to someone with a phobia, but the risks of self-exposing to a phobia-inducing in-game asset are very low.

Finally, avoidance behaviors can be just as damaging as poorly designed exposure in terms of reinforcing anxious thoughts and feelings.

ArchangelIsraphel

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

First, not trying to make light of any serious phobias whatsoever. Lots of people don't realize that phobia =/= fear, and that it can be far more serious than that.

However, this is an Elder Scrolls game. The TES universe is full of frightening beings and cosmic horror themes (especially in this expansion). It is completely unfeasible for the devs to make a toggle for any content that could induce a phobia. There are too many assets, too many factors, too many players. Additionally, I'm not even sure that kinda stuff could be handled client-side, so it might genuinely be impossible.

Again, not trying to make light of a phobia, but a player mount that you'll see less and less frequently as time goes on is a rather minor concern. If you're trypophobic, either avoid all the Hermaeus Mora stuff, or use it as exposure therapy. After all, research shows exposure is the best way to get past a phobia.

Exposure and response prevention therapy is not something one can casually take up without the proper coaching. It can be extremely dangerous and psychologically damaging to do so. The condition can becone worse if exposure and response is done incorrectly. Please do not recommend that someone engage in a form of treatment without the proper assistance from a therapist or guide.

Sure, but there's a difference between, say, telling someone to go to the ICU to look at trauma patients for exposure and someone casually (and safely) exposing themselves to something in a game. It's not like they can't back out at any point.

Exposing oneself to the said trypophobia inducing assets will show them that it's just a bunch of pixels, with relatively little to no risk.

While using a video game is a relevant form of exposure and has been used by many people, doing so without the proper education as to how to do the "response prevention" aspect of the exercise will only do more harm than good. You should not be giving dangerous medical advice, especially advice involving mental health disorders, on a gaming forum.

Those who suffer from trypophobia can benefit from looking into exposure and response prevention, but randomly doing it and calling it an "exposure" without knowing how to do exposure and response prevention appropriately can cause further setbacks and complications. (In fact, there is a subset of OCD which deals with feelings of sickness and the fear of vomiting/being triggered by feelings of disgust- therapists who assist OCD patients with this may have valuable advice in regards to such fears, but undertaking this type of exposure alone IS dangerous)

I feel it is valuable to tell people about exposure and response, and I get that you are trying to be helpful, but advising that they do so without educating themselves first is dangerous.

Furthermore, it's generally only dangerous in the cases of extreme PTSD and OCD treatment. Not saying harm can't be done to someone with a phobia, but the risks of self-exposing to a phobia-inducing in-game asset are very low.

This is simply false advice. Doing exposure and response without the assistance of someone with understanding of how this treatment should be done is not healthy. If someone wishes to attempt at home therapy, seeking information available from a licensed physician is the best way to go. There are many books and tutorials available on how to properly do exposure and response.

If anyone has any of these issues, please, please do your research first before attempting any kind of exposure and response with in game assets.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all, we are going to close this thread down, as it is going a bit off course from the original intent. We do want to make it clear we understand the various positions stated here regarding trypophobia and other phobias. These phobias do impact players and our intention when creating all of our assets is not to trigger any of those phobias. However, sometimes that cannot be avoided and we understand when players can be impacted. We'll pass on the feedback here to our dev team and see if there are better ways to account for common phobias when it cannot be avoided.