Can we please stop with the trypophobic assets?!

Mansquito

I don't think it's unreasonable to have an option where you can filter what you see or adapt it to your preferences, there are probably really easy ways to do it.

I do think it's unreasonable to completey remove the style or not release anymore.for what is likely, a very uncommon phobia.

I will say the thing is ugly af though, fortunately I just don't physically wretch like you.

ArchangelIsraphel

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

But as many others have stated, I think it is unreasonable to expect the game to completely remove things that some may find triggering, whether they be story elements or cosmetics.

I say this with sympathy, and in the kindest possible way- If the developers were to take into account every possible phobia and anxiety spectrum disorder, we would not have a game to play at all. These disorders manifest in innumerable forms, some of them quite unique to the individual. There are many main, "common" themes that occur, but there are some which can become very specific.

Anything from visuals, to sounds, to certain words can become deeply anxiety inducing.

What we all need to realize in this thread, however, is that sufferers of anxiety spectrum disorders, those who have phobias, and other challenges they must face such as trypophobia do not have a choice in the matter. They did not wake up one morning and decide to be trypophobic Many of the comments in this thread are extremely insensitive, and imply that one should simply "get over" these issues. These issues are not voluntary- they are an automatic response triggered by the brain and body which one has absolutely no control over.

Help is often very difficult to find for these issues, exactly because of invalidating schools of though such as those going on in these threads. These disorders are not a character flaw or a personality trait one chooses to have. They are not something you can control.Those who suffer often need assistance to guide them through the means to help them deal with the difficult feelings associated with them. Sometimes, complete recovery is possible.

We don't tell people with a broken leg to get up and walk it off, do we? Then why do we tell people who are experiencing a mental health issue to "get over it"? A malfunction in the brain is no different from a broken leg. It is a part of the body that is not working as it should. It is not the persons fault, it is not who they are.

(By the way, for those throwing the term "OCD" around as though it is a cute little quirk where people are obsessed with straightening objects- it is not. While straightening objects can be a compulsion related to OCD, the disorder itself can take on many themes, and many forms. The disorder is mainly characterized by the debilitating need to rid ones self of a bombardment of painful intrusive thoughts which cause the sufferer significant distress. OCD can come in many themes, and many forms. Sufferers of OCD do not have a choice in the matter, but they can reclaim their lives through Exposure and Response Prevention therapy. Those with OCD do -not- enjoy having the disorder or doing the compulsions associated with it.

There is another disorder, called "OCPD" which is quite different, which does often involve straightening objects and seeking perfection, which OCD is often mistaken for because the compulsions related to both disorders are often similar, but the mental processes behind them are quite different.)

TX12001rwb17_ESO

That gaping hole is it's mouth.

SandandStars

“In matters of taste, there are only opinions.”
— Thomas Aquinas

Amottica

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

[edited for baiting]

Kirawolfe

I love the mount myself, because I don't have the same condition you do.

If you were to ask me to change to a different mount while I was playing with you, I would.

I don't see them changing the mount though.

ArchangelIsraphel

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

A minor toggle that allows mounts to be set as default is indeed workable, and would assist those who suffer from medical conditions involving flashing lights.

Please do not minimize phobias by calling them "just" a phobia. They are also serious medical conditions, albeit mental ones. The symptoms associated are no less real.

Thank you.

[edited to remove quote]

James-Wayne

If you run the game at 640x480 everything kinds of blurs together so this might help.

Soarora

We had this problem with High Isle sunflowers and I don't think that was changed either. I have an odd phobia, although not to the point of retching, but a phobia that affects my life nonetheless. So, with that in mind, I still think it's the person with the phobia's responsibility to avoid what they can and try to build as best a tolerance they can. It's not realistic for others to avoid things that could set someone off, even with a phobia as common as trypophobia.

Amottica

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

A minor toggle that allows mounts to be set as default is indeed workable, and would assist those who suffer from medical conditions involving flashing lights.

Please do not minimize phobias by calling them "just" a phobia. They are also serious medical conditions, albeit mental ones. The symptoms associated are no less real.

Thank you.

A seizure is monumentally more significantly than a phobia, which was clearly my point bringing up the flashing.

Further, if Zenimax were to create a toggle to deal with mounts in this manner to accommodate those that may suffer from this phobia then they must create a toggle to remove flashing lights. Otherwise, it would seem odd to permit something that can cause a severe and sometimes life-threatening reaction yet alleviate a phobia. Then Zenimax would need to create a toggle to remove spiders for those with arachnophobia. The list goes on and on if we are going to accommodate phobias.

So yes, it is "workable" but unrealistic. It is extremely doubtful they will do such a change since they still permit flashes of light and spiders in the game.

[edited to remove quote]

Dr_Con

This is an unfair request. As another user said, if they had to account for every phobia there would be no game. Entire daedric princes appearances are themed and affect people with more common phobias- tentacles, spiders, darkness- they will not remove these assets for a fraction of a fraction of the population that plays this game who cannot handle these images.

blueprudence

Never been able to eat crumpets, even as a child forty years ago. It's real and existed before t'internet. Hate mushrooms too so it's a gross zone. I try to RP this aspect, or rather will when my crux migraine dissipates.

ArchangelIsraphel

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I think the best solution for something like this would be, as others have said, to add toggles which swap certain cosmetic items into their default form.

This is not a workable solution. Considering there are phobias that get much higher recognition and are much more common that appear throughout the game it would require a lot of toggles.

Since we still get flashes in the game which can cause serious medical issues vs [snip] a phobia it is extremely unlikely that this will be changed.

A minor toggle that allows mounts to be set as default is indeed workable, and would assist those who suffer from medical conditions involving flashing lights.

Please do not minimize phobias by calling them "just" a phobia. They are also serious medical conditions, albeit mental ones. The symptoms associated are no less real.

Thank you.

A seizure is monumentally more significantly than a phobia, which was clearly my point bringing up the flashing.

Further, if Zenimax were to create a toggle to deal with mounts in this manner to accommodate those that may suffer from this phobia then they must create a toggle to remove flashing lights. Otherwise, it would seem odd to permit something that can cause a severe and sometimes life-threatening reaction yet alleviate a phobia. Then Zenimax would need to create a toggle to remove spiders for those with arachnophobia. The list goes on and on if we are going to accommodate phobias.

So yes, it is "workable" but unrealistic. It is extremely doubtful they will do such a change since they still permit flashes of light and spiders in the game.

[edited to remove quote]

I am not going to argue the semantics of whether a seizure is more significant than a phobia with you, because the things I would need to explain regarding mental health disorders involve explaining themes which would likely go against the forums rules. However, I will say that phobias can be quite life threatening, albeit in a different way. Phobias can, and do, bring on severe physical health conditions as well.

Did you know that panic attacks can trigger an epileptic seizure, for instance? They can even cause non-epileptic seizures called dissociative seizures.

Did you know that those who suffer from seizures can also develop anxiety disorders in response to the distress caused by their seizures?

I am in no way attempting to minimize the severity of physical health issues such as seizures, but the two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I respectfully ask that you educate yourself in regards to the significance of mental health issues and their link to physical problems before making claims that they are more or less important than physical health issues. Both are of equal importance.

Also, I never said that ZOS shouldn't address concerns in regards to flashing lights. ZOS Should, in fact, create toggles to reduce the flashing lights in the game to assist those who may suffer from discomfort and severe health issues related to them.

While I in no way expect all forms of every issue in the world to be addressed (I never said I did, I even clearly stated in my initial post that there are so many variations of these disorders that we cannot possibly accommodate all of them) the company CAN do better, and make an effort to alleviate at least some problems.

It does not have to be an all or nothing situation.

Panderbander

With the exception of a few in this thread I think it's clear that most missed the point here. ZOS has been making more and more assets that have been increasingly stressful for myself and others and for me this was a breaking point. I haven't said anything toward the company until now and it's entirely possible the company didn't realize the models they were making could or would even have these sorts of effects on people, particularly if--like a lot of you--they personally aren't affected by it.

I got home after work yesterday, sat down at my computer, logged into ESO to test some of the changes and was fine for about 20 minutes until I ran into someone sitting idle on this mount by a wayshrine I traveled to. I had to force close ESO because of the reaction I had to seeing it in game. Legitimately ruined my evening. Turns out that it's even worse in-game than the screenshot.

I know this is a strong reaction but I can't remember a time when a visual asset has caused that strong of a response in me. I'm not a squeamish person either; 99% of gore-y things have no effect on me.

I recognize not everyone has this response. All I want is for ZOS to recognize that in the pursuit of further edgelord art designed to sell products they are legitimately making this game unplayable for a minority of people and if they want to retain folks like me (who have played since beta and spent literally thousands of real world dollars on their products) they should at least try to accommodate.

VindictiveRidge

I'm severely arachnophobic. I don't ask that Zeni remove all spiders from the game, nor do I ask that they give me some sort of toggle to transform all spider models into marshmallows with a cute smile emoji on them. My friends get to have a good laugh at me whenever we're on Discord and running Spindleclutch I, since my vulgar outbursts of disgust and panic are quite entertaining when the Swarm Mother inevitably jumps directly onto my face (because I'm trying to stay as far away from her as I can). My reaction to this mount is revulsion and disgust (EYES DO NOT BELONG THERE! GIANT NECKMOUTH WHY?!), but...just like the Swarm Mother, it's only pixels on a screen. My brain has a line of erroneous code in it, and needs to be taught what is, and what is not, an actual danger to me that warrants such an intense reaction.

Truthfully, I consider this an opportunity to practice a form of exposure therapy. I am completely safe from the Scary/Disgusting Thing. I can look away, or focus on something else on my screen, any time I like, and the Scary/Disgusting Thing can't actually touch or harm me in any way.

Heartrage

What next? Should they remove spiders too? I know of an arachnophobic guy that can’t stand spiders in video games. Fear of heights is also very common. I don’t think removing uncomfortable elements is good for an mmorpg. We’re playing in a danger-filled fantasy world. There should be some uncomfortable stuff in there or else it’s not going to feel like a world.

Also, i see some people wanting toggles. I think we should have some toggles to help out people with disabilities but how far would this go? Like i said, there are other phobias. Accommodating only one of them would be a nightmare, imagine more. Eso has thousands of assets and textures that would have to be reviewed and replace with ones that don’t trigger any phobias.

FantasticFreddie

Panderbander wrote: »

With the exception of a few in this thread I think it's clear that most missed the point here. ZOS has been making more and more assets that have been increasingly stressful for myself and others and for me this was a breaking point. I haven't said anything toward the company until now and it's entirely possible the company didn't realize the models they were making could or would even have these sorts of effects on people, particularly if--like a lot of you--they personally aren't affected by it.

I got home after work yesterday, sat down at my computer, logged into ESO to test some of the changes and was fine for about 20 minutes until I ran into someone sitting idle on this mount by a wayshrine I traveled to. I had to force close ESO because of the reaction I had to seeing it in game. Legitimately ruined my evening. Turns out that it's even worse in-game than the screenshot.

I know this is a strong reaction but I can't remember a time when a visual asset has caused that strong of a response in me. I'm not a squeamish person either; 99% of gore-y things have no effect on me.

I recognize not everyone has this response. All I want is for ZOS to recognize that in the pursuit of further edgelord art designed to sell products they are legitimately making this game unplayable for a minority of people and if they want to retain folks like me (who have played since beta and spent literally thousands of real world dollars on their products) they should at least try to accommodate.

You are on PC. Have you tried an addon specifically for hiding other players?

Panderbander

"Whenever I see X my nose bleeds. A lot of things in this game have been making my nose bleed lately, could we give it a break?"

"My nose doesn't bleed. It's fine, just learn to deal with it."

"Use this as an opportunity to reduce the amount things make your nose bleed."

"If we shouldn't make things that make noses bleed should we also not make things that give people rashes?"

I suppose I should have said that the asset makes me motion sick and causes migraines and nausea instead.

Sevalaricgirl

Panderbander wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I was kinda on your side at first OP because I didn't really know what trypophobia meant and I thought it was the gorey/scary aspect you didn't like. Like I thought you didn't want to see innards and such, blood and guts. It doesn't bother me personally but I was generally supportive because like, sure, we could do without that stuff probably.

But then I looked the word up and found out you don't like "irregular patterns" or "small clusters of many holes."

Respectfully, I think your condition is sort've rare, and I think this might just be your problem to solve.

Like if I'm OCD do I get to tell ZOS to stop hanging crooked paintings? I don't think so. I just have to do whatever I can to avoid seeing them myself. Or, better yet, try to get over my phobia.

It's a catch-all term, and while the small holes thing triggers it as well this evokes the exact same feeling.

It is also not an "oh no I'm scared" type of phobia; it is a legitimate I retched in real life thing. It's not a "get over it" thing; it's an involuntary physical reaction thing.

If you like it, cool, whatever, but it's not a rare thing nor is it something I should have to solve. You may as well tell me to just stop being epileptic (I'm not, but this chapter is clearly hitting that, too).

Other games have found ways to make assets that trigger responses like this palatable, such as arachnophobia mode in Satisfactory.

Well in reality you are a minority as are arachnophobia people. So those assets, I guess, are ones you need to stay away from. I personally don't care one way or the other but there are thousands of people who actually like them so it is a "you have to find a way to deal with it."

Panderbander

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

With the exception of a few in this thread I think it's clear that most missed the point here. ZOS has been making more and more assets that have been increasingly stressful for myself and others and for me this was a breaking point. I haven't said anything toward the company until now and it's entirely possible the company didn't realize the models they were making could or would even have these sorts of effects on people, particularly if--like a lot of you--they personally aren't affected by it.

I got home after work yesterday, sat down at my computer, logged into ESO to test some of the changes and was fine for about 20 minutes until I ran into someone sitting idle on this mount by a wayshrine I traveled to. I had to force close ESO because of the reaction I had to seeing it in game. Legitimately ruined my evening. Turns out that it's even worse in-game than the screenshot.

I know this is a strong reaction but I can't remember a time when a visual asset has caused that strong of a response in me. I'm not a squeamish person either; 99% of gore-y things have no effect on me.

I recognize not everyone has this response. All I want is for ZOS to recognize that in the pursuit of further edgelord art designed to sell products they are legitimately making this game unplayable for a minority of people and if they want to retain folks like me (who have played since beta and spent literally thousands of real world dollars on their products) they should at least try to accommodate.

You are on PC. Have you tried an addon specifically for hiding other players?

I am also on Playstation, what about there?

FantasticFreddie

Panderbander wrote: »

"Whenever I see X my nose bleeds. A lot of things in this game have been making my nose bleed lately, could we give it a break?"

"My nose doesn't bleed. It's fine, just learn to deal with it."

"Use this as an opportunity to reduce the amount things make your nose bleed."

"If we shouldn't make things that make noses bleed should we also not make things that give people rashes?"

I suppose I should have said that the asset makes me motion sick and causes migraines and nausea instead.

It doesn't make your nose bleed or give you a migraine however, so then you would just be lying.

And yes, what steps have you taken to limit your exposure to things that trigger your phobia?

I'm deathly allergic to bees. It's currently summer for me. I wear long sleeves, light colors, and keep my medication close.

I do not say that other people should be more considerate and stop keeping bees, planting flowers for bees, etc.

Look you had 7 weeks to bring up the design before it went live, and admittedly they probably wouldn't have done anything differently, but the time to say the horrible tentacle mount with the weird mouth triggered your phobia and needed to be changed was before it went live.

Now, your only realistic options are:
1) stop playing
2) use an addon to hide other players.

And yes, there WILL be a lot of Mora themed gross triggering things coming out right about now, because the chapter is Apocrypha themed.

Panderbander

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

"Whenever I see X my nose bleeds. A lot of things in this game have been making my nose bleed lately, could we give it a break?"

"My nose doesn't bleed. It's fine, just learn to deal with it."

"Use this as an opportunity to reduce the amount things make your nose bleed."

"If we shouldn't make things that make noses bleed should we also not make things that give people rashes?"

I suppose I should have said that the asset makes me motion sick and causes migraines and nausea instead.

It doesn't make your nose bleed or give you a migraine however, so then you would just be lying.

And yes, what steps have you taken to limit your exposure to things that trigger your phobia?

I'm deathly allergic to bees. It's currently summer for me. I wear long sleeves, light colors, and keep my medication close.

I do not say that other people should be more considerate and stop keeping bees, planting flowers for bees, etc.

Look you had 7 weeks to bring up the design before it went live, and admittedly they probably wouldn't have done anything differently, but the time to say the horrible tentacle mount with the weird mouth triggered your phobia and needed to be changed was before it went live.

Now, your only realistic options are:
1) stop playing
2) use an addon to hide other players.

And yes, there WILL be a lot of Mora themed gross triggering things coming out right about now, because the chapter is Apocrypha themed.

I do get nausea and migraines have occurred as a result of other triggering stimulae. I'm done with this thread.

SpacemanSpiff1

Panderbander wrote: »

There's been this consistent move in the art for the past couple years to include more and more trypophobia inducing assets into this game and while I and others can ignore most of them because they're relatively mild I just can not anymore. Case in point, this:

There is a gaping hole in its throat and just looking at it makes me retch. This is not okay. Seeing this enough will legitimately disincentivize playing this game for me more than anything I've seen so far.

that looks friggin dope

Braffin

Panderbander wrote: »

"Whenever I see X my nose bleeds. A lot of things in this game have been making my nose bleed lately, could we give it a break?"

"My nose doesn't bleed. It's fine, just learn to deal with it."

"Use this as an opportunity to reduce the amount things make your nose bleed."

"If we shouldn't make things that make noses bleed should we also not make things that give people rashes?"

I suppose I should have said that the asset makes me motion sick and causes migraines and nausea instead.

On the one hand I feel with you as I'm affected by a severe arachnophobia by myself. So I can indeed understand your feelings very well, as I feel the same every time I meet some spiders anywhere around.

On the other hand I have to say, you don't do yourself a favor if you ask for a straight removal of the assets affecting you. There are several ways to overcome phobia at least to an extent that the gaming experience is enjoyful nonetheless. If I managed to kill the abomination called velidreth in hm, I'm sure you find a way around this mount.

Otherwise it looks a bit like you're asking for the removal of something you just don't like (not saying you're doing that tho).

NordSwordnBoard

You are dealing with a corporation here, remember that. If the number of people who have no issue with this thing outnumber the ones who have problems with it, then its not an issue for the company either. They may offer you sympathy, and even go so far as to "look into" something for you. The realistic outcome is accommodating you will likely be more expensive than losing you OP. They need to lose revenue, or perceive a significant enough loss in order to make a change like this. Remove money from that equation, it's just about how many people warrants the change taking place. I don't know what the threshold is for them, only you can test that out.

I think toggles are decent solution, until you consider why they have no vanilla server or the like. They don't want a sub culture in the game that can successfully avoid being tempted by the new stuff. That includes the new cosmetic stuff as well as new mythics and new sets.

jaws343

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

There's been this consistent move in the art for the past couple years to include more and more trypophobia inducing assets into this game and while I and others can ignore most of them because they're relatively mild I just can not anymore. Case in point, this:

There is a gaping hole in its throat and just looking at it makes me retch. This is not okay. Seeing this enough will legitimately disincentivize playing this game for me more than anything I've seen so far.

that looks friggin dope

I kind of want a Senche modeled version. Senches are the GOAT.

SithisKhajitiiLamae

Seeing things like that and having an uneasy feeling is normal and possibly puking is normal too. I get an uneasy feeling looking at as well.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Ragnarok0130

My brother in Talos you can ignore it, we believe in you! Now I’m going to mount up on my Lovecraftian horror horse.

Braffin

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

My brother in Talos you can ignore it, we believe in you! Now I’m going to mount up on my Lovecraftian horror horse.

Didn't know yet our new mount is capable of time travel. But yeah, makes sense, it's a very wise abomination directly spawned out of apocrypha. Will test this immediately and pay emporer Tiber a visit

Heartrage

SithisKhajitiiLamae wrote: »

Seeing things like that and having an uneasy feeling is normal and possibly puking is normal too. I get an uneasy feeling looking at as well.

[snip]

This is not how this work. Phobias are irrational fears. A phobia not including something that should be part of it’s category doesn’t make it invalid.

[edited quote]