Pvprs lost a month of campaign rewards

Kikazaru

I have 25k AP or more on 18 characters because I needed those transmute stones for this chapter and now I have to wait 23 more days?!?!

That's so lame.

Reverb

We all notice that there’s no response from Zeni on this, following Kevin’s “this was an intended change.”

They won’t respond further. They don’t care that we’re upset, they don’t care if pvp players are dissatisfied with the game, and their plan is to ignore it long enough for the campaign to reset and the problem to “go away”.

If I’m wrong, and they take any steps to make this right by us, I’ll put my money where my mouth is. I’ll hand out 5m gold to new players and swallow my pride by buying Necrom.

Jaraal

Reverb wrote: »

....their plan is to ignore it long enough for the campaign to reset and the problem to “go away”.

This is the SOP, but the problems never really "go away." The silence and inaction just adds to the accumulated negative reputation earned.

Is there an easy way to fix it? Yes. The correct number of transmutes and jewels could be added together as double drops (or 7 out of 8 possible weeks worth, to be exact) to cover both months. But will that happen? I'm fairly certain that it wont.

green_grapebird

Reverb wrote: »

We all notice that there’s no response from Zeni on this, following Kevin’s “this was an intended change.”

They won’t respond further. They don’t care that we’re upset, they don’t care if pvp players are dissatisfied with the game, and their plan is to ignore it long enough for the campaign to reset and the problem to “go away”.

If I’m wrong, and they take any steps to make this right by us, I’ll put my money where my mouth is. I’ll hand out 5m gold to new players and swallow my pride by buying Necrom.

you're exactly right and i have the same thought.
decided to stop eso, i pre ordered necrom but haven't even been able to get myself to start the game.
might delete my acount i don't know, what i do know, they won't get another cent from me, not for eso+ and not for the freaking crown store.
this was the last straw.
and i'm not the only one, what is posted here is nothing compared to facebook and especially discord.
I think they will loose a lot of players over this and all other issue's last year.
since i started playing I have never seen anyone from ZOS respond with actual content here, you are totally right about this, and i don't think this will change. this alone is a reason to quit. what do they mean support.
try opening a ticket, it's a joke, they just delete it.

green_grapebird

Sundance wrote: »

As I see it they've changed the rules of the contest 72 hours before it was to end and in their own favor.

Unless they intended to award qualifying players double at the end of June (since the session was two months long) and simply didn't make that clear in the patch notes.

Yep, totally right, i posted something similar and my post got edited for so called bashing. now my native language is not english so i don't exactly now what is means but i didn't swear or made false statements or accused anyone.
And after my posts came far worse and fiercer posts, nothing has gotten edited.
I just get singled out, while i normally don't even post anything.

Way to feel welcome here.

anyway, this is the last straw for me, i'm not playing anymore.

Sundance

I had intended to buy Necrom on Tuesday, but now that's on hold and I've canceled my ESO Plus.

I'm hoping that it's simply a misunderstanding/miscommunication and that everything will work out, but right now my trust is shattered and I cannot justify giving them any more money.

Necrotech_Master

peacenote wrote: »

I just noticed this pinned in General.

That is crazy to me. The endeavors, mostly which take little time investment and go towards rewards that can also be purchased with money, get a pinned announcement for a slight inconvenience, but there was no pin alerting everyone that this was coming for PvP, which was a loss to significant time investment and provides rewards for items that cannot be purchased with real money and only obtained by in game play time (transmutes). And it was created back in March.

Definitely losing the benefit of my doubt here.

i saw the change on the campaign in the very first pts patch notes, which was april 17th

so zos had this planned well before the pts was even updated with necrom (so in effect probably 3 30-day cyro camps ago or more, though they could have probably still seen that the campaign end date would have only been a few days after necrom)

however i know just expecting everyone to read it in (fairly extensive) patch notes was probably an oversight on zos part and they could have made an announcement at the beginning of the PTS cycle

i personally find this as a good case for just increasing or removing the transmute cap for eso+, if people could stockpile more transmutes, this would have been far far less of an issue (since from what ive read seems to be the general complaint, the lack of the additional transmutes for when 50%+ of the entire eso population was making new characters that would have to be re-geared lol)

LunaFlora

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

M0ntie

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

Previously when ZoS have changed the campaign end date they PAID OUT the old campaign. I think the patch notes only said align the end dates. Not rip everyone off a month of rewards by making a nearly 2 month campaign.

And this affects PVE a lot also. Many PVEers venture into Cyro during the double AP event and are now waiting a month to get much needed transmutes for their new arcanist’s gear. Way to shoot yourself in the foot from a player satisfaction perspective ZoS.

Sundance

M0ntie wrote: »

Previously when ZoS have changed the campaign end date they PAID OUT the old campaign. I think the patch notes only said align the end dates. Not rip everyone off a month of rewards by making a nearly 2 month campaign.

And this affects PVE a lot also. Many PVEers venture into Cyro during the double AP event and are now waiting a month to get much needed transmutes for their new arcanist’s gear. Way to shoot yourself in the foot from a player satisfaction perspective ZoS.

Indeed.


Source.

Tigor

And again a proof that ad hoc changes are often not welcome, when a lot of interest are involved. So be it.

Reverb

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

This response reeks of zeni’s official “stop complaining, this was an intended change” comment. People, including yourself, seem to think that the outrage is because it was a surprise. No, the outrage is because of the impact. Having communicated it in advance doesn’t change how disrespectful and dismissive this was, and that part isn’t being addressed.

In the past when zeni made significant campaign rule changes, they would end and discontinue the current campaigns and names when the patch was applied, everyone received campaign rewards as if it had run the full course, and newly deployed and named campaigns opened with the new rule set. That’s our history, set by zeni, and we’re angry it wasn’t done this time. And we’re angry that the studio didn’t take into consideration the negative impact on the entire pvp community, and doesn’t care now that it’s been brought to their attention.

None of that has anything to do with reading patch notes.

Necrotech_Master

Reverb wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

This response reeks of zeni’s official “stop complaining, this was an intended change” comment. People, including yourself, seem to think that the outrage is because it was a surprise. No, the outrage is because of the impact. Having communicated it in advance doesn’t change how disrespectful and dismissive this was, and that part isn’t being addressed.

In the past when zeni made significant campaign rule changes, they would end and discontinue the current campaigns and names when the patch was applied, everyone received campaign rewards as if it had run the full course, and newly deployed and named campaigns opened with the new rule set. That’s our history, set by zeni, and we’re angry it wasn’t done this time. And we’re angry that the studio didn’t take into consideration the negative impact on the entire pvp community, and doesn’t care now that it’s been brought to their attention.

None of that has anything to do with reading patch notes.

i didnt see any complaining or even mention of this on the pts, and the first pts notes were april 17, which was before the current cyro campaign even started, or the may whitestrake event

not denying the impact that it has on those who need the transmutes, just saying the information has been out there for almost 2 months (as of today) that they were going to be doing this, so the attention could have been brought to this much sooner

Twig_Garlicshine

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

This response reeks of zeni’s official “stop complaining, this was an intended change” comment. People, including yourself, seem to think that the outrage is because it was a surprise. No, the outrage is because of the impact. Having communicated it in advance doesn’t change how disrespectful and dismissive this was, and that part isn’t being addressed.

In the past when zeni made significant campaign rule changes, they would end and discontinue the current campaigns and names when the patch was applied, everyone received campaign rewards as if it had run the full course, and newly deployed and named campaigns opened with the new rule set. That’s our history, set by zeni, and we’re angry it wasn’t done this time. And we’re angry that the studio didn’t take into consideration the negative impact on the entire pvp community, and doesn’t care now that it’s been brought to their attention.

None of that has anything to do with reading patch notes.

i didnt see any complaining or even mention of this on the pts, and the first pts notes were april 17, which was before the current cyro campaign even started, or the may whitestrake event

not denying the impact that it has on those who need the transmutes, just saying the information has been out there for almost 2 months (as of today) that they were going to be doing this, so the attention could have been brought to this much sooner

It is not in fact the customers' responsibility to correct, fix, or even test design/company choices.
And in the end,
Zos would have paid as much attention to any posts about campaign rewards as they did to PTS posts regarding motion sickness, migraines etc from the new class effects.
--Nothing would have changed anyway.--

TechMaybeHic

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

This response reeks of zeni’s official “stop complaining, this was an intended change” comment. People, including yourself, seem to think that the outrage is because it was a surprise. No, the outrage is because of the impact. Having communicated it in advance doesn’t change how disrespectful and dismissive this was, and that part isn’t being addressed.

In the past when zeni made significant campaign rule changes, they would end and discontinue the current campaigns and names when the patch was applied, everyone received campaign rewards as if it had run the full course, and newly deployed and named campaigns opened with the new rule set. That’s our history, set by zeni, and we’re angry it wasn’t done this time. And we’re angry that the studio didn’t take into consideration the negative impact on the entire pvp community, and doesn’t care now that it’s been brought to their attention.

None of that has anything to do with reading patch notes.

i didnt see any complaining or even mention of this on the pts, and the first pts notes were april 17, which was before the current cyro campaign even started, or the may whitestrake event

not denying the impact that it has on those who need the transmutes, just saying the information has been out there for almost 2 months (as of today) that they were going to be doing this, so the attention could have been brought to this much sooner

People shouldn't have to comb all notes to pick out mistakes being made by ZOS. 1 party is just paying for recreational service while the other is doing a job.

Then, even if someone would have brought it up, things are often ignored and not discussed. Similar to the Emperor bonus changes.

We shouldn't have to smack our faces against the wall in futility and then be held culpable for not wasting our time. Then again; probably a waste of time now after the fact as well

OtarTheMad

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think y'all should read patch notes in the future so this kind of thing doesn't surprise you again.

This response reeks of zeni’s official “stop complaining, this was an intended change” comment. People, including yourself, seem to think that the outrage is because it was a surprise. No, the outrage is because of the impact. Having communicated it in advance doesn’t change how disrespectful and dismissive this was, and that part isn’t being addressed.

In the past when zeni made significant campaign rule changes, they would end and discontinue the current campaigns and names when the patch was applied, everyone received campaign rewards as if it had run the full course, and newly deployed and named campaigns opened with the new rule set. That’s our history, set by zeni, and we’re angry it wasn’t done this time. And we’re angry that the studio didn’t take into consideration the negative impact on the entire pvp community, and doesn’t care now that it’s been brought to their attention.

None of that has anything to do with reading patch notes.

i didnt see any complaining or even mention of this on the pts, and the first pts notes were april 17, which was before the current cyro campaign even started, or the may whitestrake event

not denying the impact that it has on those who need the transmutes, just saying the information has been out there for almost 2 months (as of today) that they were going to be doing this, so the attention could have been brought to this much sooner

Why would anyone complain back then? In the past anytime ZOS has messed with a campaign in any way we got rewards early... so why wouldn't anyone just read that and just think "Oh cool, we are getting rewards a few days early" and move on? They have done this at least 2 or 3 times so we are fairly used to that method.

Also, I know I said I wouldn't come back lol, but I saw this post and had to say something.

Jaraal

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

People shouldn't have to comb all notes to pick out mistakes being made by ZOS.

Except this wasn't a mistake.

Kevin said the change was working as intended, so the plan was to deny everyone their earned transmutes and jewelry for the month of May all along.

The real question is, why did they choose to do the players this disservice, when they could have simply paid us our wages and changed the new campaign date simultaneously? What does the company benefit by not having to pay out some digital rewards and invoke the ire of the customers?

TechMaybeHic

Jaraal wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

People shouldn't have to comb all notes to pick out mistakes being made by ZOS.

Except this wasn't a mistake.

Kevin said the change was working as intended, so the plan was to deny everyone their earned transmutes and jewelry for the month of May all along.

The real question is, why did they choose to do the players this disservice, when they could have simply paid us our wages and changed the new campaign date simultaneously? What does the company benefit by not having to pay out some digital rewards and invoke the ire of the customers?

Just because it's intended doesn't mean it not a mistake. The decision itself is a mistake

afkpro

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i didnt see any complaining or even mention of this on the pts, and the first pts notes were april 17, which was before the current cyro campaign even started, or the may whitestrake event

because the messaging needs to crystal clear to players. in bold letters. direct messaging. example,

This change will affect next month's campaign rewards. Next month's campaign will start on <start date> and end <end date of early June>. Therefore, the campaign will extend to the end of the month rolling out rewards on July 1st.

if necessary, add "In other words, next month's campaign will last roughly 2 months so we can implement this one time change"

that's zos' responsibility, not the players.

Jaraal

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

People shouldn't have to comb all notes to pick out mistakes being made by ZOS.

Except this wasn't a mistake.

Kevin said the change was working as intended, so the plan was to deny everyone their earned transmutes and jewelry for the month of May all along.

The real question is, why did they choose to do the players this disservice, when they could have simply paid us our wages and changed the new campaign date simultaneously? What does the company benefit by not having to pay out some digital rewards and invoke the ire of the customers?

Just because it's intended doesn't mean it not a mistake. The decision itself is a mistake

What's even more puzzling is why they planned to have not one, but two Whitestrake's Mayhems in a single campaign. What is the reasoning behind that?

Breeso

I understand a million decisions get made when new updates happen, but why cant something like this be explained ahead of time. Other than loosing some time and in game money and transmutes Its not a big deal to me, what is a big deal to me is that this is one of many decisions made that does not benefit us the paying players, the players that have been here for years building a community and game. All I ask is that in the future you let us know of things like this, and not sweep it under a rug like its not a big deal.

unit220

Made a forum account just to add another voice stating their dissatisfaction with the way this was handled.

DarcyMardin

Since this was essentially a 2 month campaign instead of a 1 month campaign, please give us twice as many crystals.

Turtle_Bot

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno considering the entire feedback from the meeting you guys had with well known and respected content creators (stream team members) less than a year ago regarding ways to improve the game resulted in a unanimous consensus that there needs to be better rewards for playing the game, this decision and the easily foreseeable consequences feels like a HUGE swing and a miss.

The following spoiler is not something I expect an answer to (nor should anyone), but it is definitely something that the team needs to reflect on and think about, because companies with much better reputations have been ruined by much less.

This decision and the resulting lack of engagement, except to say it was intended, leaves a feeling like that entire meeting that you had and feedback provided was completely pointless and that the team just doesn't care about the game or its players.
It's a feeling that the game is essentially dead to the team and the company and is only being milked for whatever money can still be squeezed from it until the new IP is released.
- Is this a reputation that you (and the team) want for themselves and the company?
- What does this decision and complete silence say about future ZOS IP?
- Will all future ZOS IP be treated the same way?
- Is it even worth buying a ZOS released title anymore?
- What will the investors (shareholders) say when profits inevitably plummet because the teams attitude towards its paying customers is this bad that it affects sales and confidence of not only current products, but future products as well?

Reverb

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler

The community is (mostly) graciously and patiently awaiting a better response than “this was a planned change”. To recap the points from this thread:

- This was implemented 27 days into 30 day campaigns, making them nearly two months long, rather than deciding to end the current campaigns a few days early to start the new timing cycle

- Many players put time into reaching Tier 3 rewards during the Mayhem event, including those who don’t typically pvp, expecting to receive their Transmute crystal rewards for their Necrom builds

- If the planned June Mayhem event goes forward, both Mayhem events will be in the same (nearly 2 month long) campaigns

- We understand this was a planned change. The complaints are about the impact of that change, and the way it makes the already beleaguered pvp community feel further dismissed and disrespected.

A response to the above points would be greatly appreciated. Especially if it comes with a plan for recompense.

Reverb

SCP343

day 10 and still cant try arcanist class just because i dont have transmutes that comes from pvp rewards

SCP343

you also killed the cyrodiil population by making this change. If you look at the leaderboard, you can see that the 2nd and 3rd alliances have lost 100k and the players playing in that alliance have stopped playing. and you can see that cyrodiil takes on a completely solo gameplay rather than being an AvA zone.

Reverb

SCP343 wrote: »

you also killed the cyrodiil population by making this change. If you look at the leaderboard, you can see that the 2nd and 3rd alliances have lost 100k and the players playing in that alliance have stopped playing. and you can see that cyrodiil takes on a completely solo gameplay rather than being an AvA zone.

Yeah I’ve noticed that GH hasn’t been poplocked at all since the patch on NA. Initially I thought it wa because everyone was leveling their arcanist. But that’s not it. People are done.

Marcus684

Reverb wrote: »

SCP343 wrote: »

you also killed the cyrodiil population by making this change. If you look at the leaderboard, you can see that the 2nd and 3rd alliances have lost 100k and the players playing in that alliance have stopped playing. and you can see that cyrodiil takes on a completely solo gameplay rather than being an AvA zone.

Yeah I’ve noticed that GH hasn’t been poplocked at all since the patch on NA. Initially I thought it wa because everyone was leveling their arcanist. But that’s not it. People are done.

I dunno about this. I've barely pvp'd since Necrom dropped because I've been busy farming gear and achievements and leveling companions and my arcanist, and I suspect a lot of other casual and semi-casual pvpers like me are doing the same. I think that the true hard-core pvp-only players are a minority of the usual Cyrodiil populations these days, while a significant percentage of the rest see Cyrodiil as just another daily to check off their list when they have time, so they're absent while playing with the shiny new toy. I guess time will tell.