Thoughts on new mythic balance

Shepoffire

Soarora wrote: »

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not a casual, nor am I lazy. I fully intend to work it into endgame setups (though again, primarily as a backup setup for me… I do weave) and I’m convinced I will make it work. Do I parse 120k? No. Should this mythic make a parse 120k? No. Is 120k the baseline for what’s acceptable? No. And honestly, it shouldn’t be “fun for the endgame community”, not when that would mean “get Necrom, farm this mythic, use it, or else you can’t join”.

You're not talking about endgame groups. You're talking about mid-tier goof groups. Endgame groups don't gatekeep because of a mythic lol. As long as you're pulling your weight then you're fine. You all seriously have to stop confusing weird mid-tier groups with actual endgame and claiming their weird toxicity is the norm. Also, the mythic change only hurts newer players, and not the other way around. It doesn't really affect experienced players at all. However, the pen nerf makes it subpar, the addition of Minor Force is of no benefit since its sourced from abilities that won't be dropped, and the 15% flat dmg is mediocre. You'd be giving up another more beneficial mythic to run a big fat 0 considering it also snuffs your LA dmg. It'll be decent in trash, but not always BiS and even that is yet to be determined and isn't looking great from some of the testing already being done.

By all means, if I am wrong I will apologize for my discussions. Because this is fantastic news to me if true. The reason I keep attributing it to endgamers is because I know for a fact that the people involved are endgamers. But group-wise (12man, I know 4man is having this weird gatekeeping but its easy enough to just avoid them) if it's only mid-game then that's good enough for me.

It's just something that's not really gonna do anything for the end gamers. It's not just the damage. No weaving means less ultimate. And oaken you get minor heroism for no reason. Even with the nerfs oaken is still going to out perform and it's not just because of the damage either. My HA Sorc is redic in solo content I had 40k HP and Stam in vet vateshran hallows did a spirit slayer run in like 29 mins and It was like the easiest thing. Clear choice is oaken....

Stx

Lol!

Just read the Velothi mage change. Made the item 100% useless. This balance team man…. Hilariously bad nerf.

Luke_Flamesword

I don't understand why they can't just adjust a bit values and instead they just destroyed it...

Daoin

i dont understand why 'end gamers' that have already claimed to and done everything in a flawless fashion need to worry about whats coming up next adds to the game for them ! and if it did remove something would that not make content they have already conquered a bit more interesting for them, the thing is like myself i dont care at all about mythics only because they break up my set pieces i dont care about great arena runs in certain armour everyone can use because then for the build armour weapon and skills i chose for a character to spend the majotity of time using i could not do the same with one day with, then the game would be boring also i f a mythic did add a touch of something for not weaving it would definatley peak my interest though as i spend no time practicing or effictively try to weave not becase im lazy or a sub par player just because what i feel personally i do in a group is good enough and this parsing mythic thing sounds to fall in line with what eso said it wanted to do raising dps while not effecting 'end game' players methods

Gadamlub14_ESO

im actually somewhat impressed. usually they wait a few patches or even till the next chapter to Nerf their shiny new OP mythic items into the ground, lol.

TKo_ROUSE

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

But here we are with oakensoul where you don't need to manage hardly anything and can have as much hp as a tank. Are we not allowed to have fun

Theorycrafting setups around new mythics can be fun. Being forced to farm a mythic and use it is not. Same problem with Oakensoul, only this mythic is hopefully being saved from the “you have to use this mythic or get out” fate using this nerf.

No one's is gonna use it now

People who struggle with weaving in content and those who refuse to weave at all will, that’s the point of the mythic. You’re telling someone who’s been parsing with it and intends to get it as a backup setup for when weaving is hard or painful that no one’s gonna use it. If no one’s gonna use it then it’s me, I’m no one.

I think that's the problem. I don't think that is how ZoS should look at this mythic. We already have a I do not want to weave mythic thats Oakensoul. Frankly at this point it blows this item out of the water. If this mythic is really supposed to be a don't want to weave mythic they should remove LA from it entirely.

I looked at this item as a big boon to mid tier groups. Think of newer players to the raiding scene. Doing their first vet and hard mode clears. They have not yet mastered weaving. They miss maybe half their light attacks but they are trying because they want to master the combat system. So they trade their light attack damage as they miss so many of them to boost their skill damage. Yet they are still light attacking for enchants, item sets, to improve. I do think the skill damage boost is a little high given how low light attack damage is since u35. But you are trading off a good amount of crit or crit damage gained from other mythics.

The initial version was a huge boon to groups that did not have high level supports. However it was too powerful that endgame groups were going to use it every where. I am merely putting out suggestions to hopefully find a home for this mythic. That maybe it can be a niche item like SSC yet still be powerful to those who just haven't yet mastered weaving.

Daoin

i dont want to weave and dont need to use oakensoul to help me out, i think whats been said along the lines of its a good item for players as a whole throughout the game from whats considered the top to the whats considered the bottom, i just had a look at it and by the look of it i'd rather wind up in a random dungeon with someone using this rather than a 1 bar ha build and for us lesser players that still use the lightening staff for more reasons than its one bar damage capability i would definately consider this item it over oakensoul, the fact is like that build theres lots of spin around it because players that have been around since start of eso (very few now) wont like the fact new players are speedily catching up now in the achievments and content they can enjoy completing more and one less random i see where someone needs to tell someone else how poor thier dps is or how much more % of the damge in the dungeon they did gets the thumbs up from me all year round

TKo_ROUSE

Daoin wrote: »

i dont understand why 'end gamers' that have already claimed to and done everything in a flawless fashion need to worry about whats coming up next adds to the game for them ! and if it did remove something would that not make content they have already conquered a bit more interesting for them, the thing is like myself i dont care at all about mythics only because they break up my set pieces i dont care about great arena runs in certain armour everyone can use because then for the build armour weapon and skills i chose for a character to spend the majotity of time using i could not do the same with one day with, then the game would be boring also i f a mythic did add a touch of something for not weaving it would definatley peak my interest though as i spend no time practicing or effictively try to weave not becase im lazy or a sub par player just because what i feel personally i do in a group is good enough and this parsing mythic thing sounds to fall in line with what eso said it wanted to do raising dps while not effecting 'end game' players methods

So because people have done almost everything the game has to offer they should NOT get an opinion on the future of the game? Your opinion honestly makes no sense. In fact I would argue the opposite. People who have done everything the game has to offer should be giving input on what comes next as they are the ones wondering if there is a reason to stick around.

Daoin

no your right opinions there are very important if the whole eso community were taken into consideration when voicing them, all i can see here is how people who have done it all it will effect thier little corner of eso, if for example.. i repeat...i end up in a random dungeon with a fairly new to the game player wearing this new mythic i can see how this would increase the enjoyablility of said dungeon for all in there including the wearer too, looks like it will take alot of pressure from stepping up from normal to veteran dungeons to me and i guess i have no expectations of trifectas when i enter then so am rarely disappointed however if im with a support role it basically helps me to help them get through content they may not have done yet which the HA 1 bar builds lacks to do by a long shot right now, and i may not have done it all but i have been around through it all (almost)

TKo_ROUSE

Daoin wrote: »

no your right opinions there are very important if the whole eso community were taken into consideration when voicing them, all i can see here is how people who have done it all it will effect thier little corner of eso, if for example.. i repeat...i end up in a random dungeon with a fairly new to the game player wearing this new mythic i can see how this would increase the enjoyablility of said dungeon for all in there including the wearer too, looks like it will take alot of pressure from stepping up from normal to veteran dungeons to me

What are you trying to say? I am not quite sure you are reading my comments.... Please go back and read my above post. Ill pull a quote for you.

From my Above post: I looked at this item as a big boon to mid tier groups. Think of newer players to the raiding scene. Doing their first vet and hard mode clears.

That is literally the group I am advocating for. Not myself. But you need to find a balance that it is good for them without making it too powerful for end game. If its too powerful people will min max it. But at the same time right now it seems completely overshadowed by oakensoul.

Daoin

admittedly im no expert on mythics as i choose not to use them with my dd's but still have no real problems with content, all i have done though is taken a brief overlook at the posts while scrolling through but that being said due to the amount of time i spend in random groups and also only being able to comment on this new mythic from my experience in groups using oaken i think it is an overall improvent to how people can approach that content<---- thats really the baseline of it all

StarOfElyon

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

im actually somewhat impressed. usually they wait a few patches or even till the next chapter to Nerf their shiny new OP mythic items into the ground, lol.

Yes. Impressed and relieved. If only this was always the way.

Vulkunne

Well none of this comes as too much of a shock to me. Originally these new mythics actually seemed interesting, esotheric could have been a game changer. I realized early on Velothi was going to get reset. Which for that one it didn't really matter if it got reset or not because it only fits into certain builds anyways.

So it was fairly easy to see these mythics getting changed (nerfed). The problem I have with this is how they keep reducing dmg. I mean armor should protect, weapons should kill... or so I thought. Overall another round of kind of depressing changes although it was expected.

Soarora

Shepoffire wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not a casual, nor am I lazy. I fully intend to work it into endgame setups (though again, primarily as a backup setup for me… I do weave) and I’m convinced I will make it work. Do I parse 120k? No. Should this mythic make a parse 120k? No. Is 120k the baseline for what’s acceptable? No. And honestly, it shouldn’t be “fun for the endgame community”, not when that would mean “get Necrom, farm this mythic, use it, or else you can’t join”.

You're not talking about endgame groups. You're talking about mid-tier goof groups. Endgame groups don't gatekeep because of a mythic lol. As long as you're pulling your weight then you're fine. You all seriously have to stop confusing weird mid-tier groups with actual endgame and claiming their weird toxicity is the norm. Also, the mythic change only hurts newer players, and not the other way around. It doesn't really affect experienced players at all. However, the pen nerf makes it subpar, the addition of Minor Force is of no benefit since its sourced from abilities that won't be dropped, and the 15% flat dmg is mediocre. You'd be giving up another more beneficial mythic to run a big fat 0 considering it also snuffs your LA dmg. It'll be decent in trash, but not always BiS and even that is yet to be determined and isn't looking great from some of the testing already being done.

By all means, if I am wrong I will apologize for my discussions. Because this is fantastic news to me if true. The reason I keep attributing it to endgamers is because I know for a fact that the people involved are endgamers. But group-wise (12man, I know 4man is having this weird gatekeeping but its easy enough to just avoid them) if it's only mid-game then that's good enough for me.

It's just something that's not really gonna do anything for the end gamers. It's not just the damage. No weaving means less ultimate. And oaken you get minor heroism for no reason. Even with the nerfs oaken is still going to out perform and it's not just because of the damage either. My HA Sorc is redic in solo content I had 40k HP and Stam in vet vateshran hallows did a spirit slayer run in like 29 mins and It was like the easiest thing. Clear choice is oaken....

I was talking more about oakensoul gatekeeping. If it’s something truly avoidable I will apologize for stirring things up around here because I just want to avoid endgamers using oakenHA (and in cases, making everyone do oakenHA) while complaining about it. That’s all. Not the point of this thread, but that’s what I was saying.

Edit: I will say that I do see the point people are making now with “but now it’s worse than oakensoul”. I still think the answer is to nerf oakensoul more but I could see that opinion changing… I think you all are on the right track. I enjoy these threads a LOT more than the HA threads, real discussions to be had here. Thank you.