veteran difficulty concept...

Sparxlost

Setting your characters gameplay difficulty now effects overworld
normal difficulty drops is nerfed heavily except for farming nodes and overland set drops but little to no gold or other valuable items drop from enemies killed and you gain less exp..
Vet difficulty sets all overland content to craglorn difficulty and overland drops from enemies are always purple, you get the normal amount of gold drops from enemies in vet difficulty and much more than the normal exp..

This makes vet difficulty a fun option for more hardcore gamer experiences.. as someone who loves to first play games on the hardest difficulty ( most recently grounded the game) i find the lack of a challenge a tiny bit unfulfilling for the rewards.. it would be difficult to justify incentivising playing on a higher difficulty but hopefully people wouldnt be too mad about making less exp/gold for fighting weaker enemies..

valenwood_vegan

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

fred4

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

Hoghorn

the idea that zos would drastically nerf overland xp and drops to chivvy new players into a veteran overland instance is laughable

isadoraisacat

I’m all for a difficulty toggle for overland like Skyrim or other tes games where YOU decide how hard the overland is. I think that would help casual players and vet players both get what they want.

Credible_Joe

Just about every possible implementation of overland difficulty has been discussed in the megathread, and so far the consensus has been that the base experience as it stands now has to have equal incentive to any alternative, and that instances cannot split players between default and veteran content.

This limits possible solutions to things like personal debuff sliders, veteran mode delves and public dungeons, and veteran mode solo instance and quest bosses.

Any time increased rewards for veteran difficulty resurfaces in the thread, it's met with vehement opposition, which I think is justified. Group PvE and PvP content already bars most casual players from the best and most lucrative rewards, and widening that divide is usually agreed to be a bad approach.

I occasionally challenge that conclusion with a risk-reward solution that makes any kind of veteran content more rewarding at the risk of losing gold or XP on death, the way it works with Tel-Var, going as far as making the base multiplier yield less than the default overland would. It's never met with much engagement, but throwing it out there never hurts.

If you get past the back-and-forth, all of this has been discussed ad nauseam in the megathread. I think the only place to go from here is to add your +1 to the thread so DEVs can count the people lobbying for any solution.

merpins

ZoS wants new players to enjoy the game and stick with it, so it's unlikely that they'll nerf overland content just to make vet overland viable. It's more likely that if there is a vet overland, it'll be extra exp and potentially new drops. Possibly a store similar to the empressario with unique stuff to buy with unique currency earned by doing vet overland content, probably with the contents of the store being primarily housing related (which is kinda boring, but it's most likely).

I'd hope for more cosmetics that you can unlock in vet overland to really make the game have more reasons to play. But I doubt even that.

fred4

Credible_Joe wrote: »

...and so far the consensus has been that the base experience as it stands now has to have equal incentive to any alternative.

That's a shame. I get that people don't want to lose what they currently have. It seems part of human psychology. For example Oakensoul / heavy attack builds have been a one way street. Once ZOS opened that pandora's box, people became extremely resistant to going back.

I increasingly find these attitudes entitled. I have met (mostly older) players with physical difficulties or disabilities. For one of them the Oakensoul heavy attack meta boosted his confidence and opened up the world of vet trial progression groups. Without that he would have left the game. It's very hard to argue with that, but for players like him there are others for whom that meta dilutes their accomplishments in trials and who have outgrown overland so much that new zones have become meaningless to them. It seems the latter is not just felt by veteran players. It's also been the sticking point of a recent Josh Strife Hayes video as far as I can see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQZm3eawMis

While PvP is largely it's own reward for me, I personally play for tangible rewards in PvE. That's been the stickerbook or things of high gold value, which feeds into build-crafting and housing. Achievements don't really cut it for me. Being rewarded for my combat prowess keeps me going in PvE. Farming DLC dungeon monster style pages is an option, but I'd love for there to be a solo one. Perfected veteran trial sets are another case in point. However small their combat value is, there has to be a difference over normal for me personally to justify doing the content. Unfortunately I find many (newer) players fixate overly on gold perfected gear, not appreciating how little extra you get from that.

Yesterday I came across a streamer tackling veteran dungeons with a group of noobs. They completed vet Vaults of Madness. They had to drop down to normal In Icereach as far as I could see. Now he's asking what the easiest vet DLC dungeon is. Watching them was fascinating. Their playstyle was suboptimal, their aptitudes those of true beginners. One of them spammed DK chains over and over in the segment I watched. Yet they completed Vaults of Madness on vet. If new players can do that and have a ball, that just shows how badly overnerfed overland content is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_AIQxYjDC0

valenwood_vegan

fred4 wrote: »

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea?

Trust me, it does. But my point was really just that OP (and you as well) might want to chime into that thread with your ideas on the subject, as that is where the devs have requested / consolidated / are looking at feedback on this. This thread is likely to go unnoticed by them.

sarahthes

fred4 wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

...and so far the consensus has been that the base experience as it stands now has to have equal incentive to any alternative.

That's a shame. I get that people don't want to lose what they currently have. It seems part of human psychology. For example Oakensoul / heavy attack builds have been a one way street. Once ZOS opened that pandora's box, people became extremely resistant to going back.

I increasingly find these attitudes entitled. I have met (mostly older) players with physical difficulties or disabilities. For one of them the Oakensoul heavy attack meta boosted his confidence and opened up the world of vet trial progression groups. Without that he would have left the game. It's very hard to argue with that, but for players like him there are others for whom that meta dilutes their accomplishments in trials and who have outgrown overland so much that new zones have become meaningless to them. It seems the latter is not just felt by veteran players. It's also been the sticking point of a recent Josh Strife Hayes video as far as I can see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQZm3eawMis

While PvP is largely it's own reward for me, I personally play for tangible rewards in PvE. That's been the stickerbook or things of high gold value, which feeds into build-crafting and housing. Achievements don't really cut it for me. Being rewarded for my combat prowess keeps me going in PvE. Farming DLC dungeon monster style pages is an option, but I'd love for there to be a solo one. Perfected veteran trial sets are another case in point. However small their combat value is, there has to be a difference over normal for me personally to justify doing the content. Unfortunately I find many (newer) players fixate overly on gold perfected gear, not appreciating how little extra you get from that.

Yesterday I came across a streamer tackling veteran dungeons with a group of noobs. They completed vet Vaults of Madness. They had to drop down to normal In Icereach as far as I could see. Now he's asking what the easiest vet DLC dungeon is. Watching them was fascinating. Their playstyle was suboptimal, their aptitudes those of true beginners. One of them spammed DK chains over and over in the segment I watched. Yet they completed Vaults of Madness on vet. If new players can do that and have a ball, that just shows how badly overnerfed overland content is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_AIQxYjDC0

Base game dungeons are not terribly difficult even on vet. I think Banished Cells 2 is the only one with a true DPS check.

fred4

@Credible_Joe, has anyone ever discussed inverting the reward system? This is just a thought experiment, but what if normal trials yielded perfected gear and vet trials yielded normal gear. The better gear would be like training wheels, but the lesser gear would net you better rewards (and titles / bragging rights) or better chances at rewards, such as gold, mounts, motifs, and so on. In order to get the most rewards, you'd have to play naked.

Of course this is more like an idea for a new game. It flies in the face of being born with nothing and collecting stuff. I also only see this working if better gear offered mostly defensive buffs. Currently being naked nerfs your damage and sustain, simply making content more tedious, but not necessarily offering more of a challenge.

fred4

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons are not terribly difficult even on vet. I think Banished Cells 2 is the only one with a true DPS check.

That may be true for you and me. I would steamroll the place solo, with only the harvester mechanic being a pain. Nonetheless, have you watched a bit of the video? I was amazed that group completed it in 1hr 20min, given their obvious lack of experience.

Sparxlost

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

good point.

Sparxlost

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

although it wouldnt really be necessary to split the players... changing how scaling works for people on vet difficulty would only make it harder for them meaning they would have to try harder to keep up with people on lower difficulty and letting them go all out with their builds..

this way it becomes sort of a necessity after you've acquired enough power as a player as if you just used youre max level OP build then bullying bosses and such without giving others much of a chance to fight probably isnt giving you the gear that you need.... its seems controvertial to incentivise doing making the game more difficult for yourself but you could always choose not to play on a higher difficulty... and its not like they would have to add extra rewards just the higher difficulty would be enough for most people..

adding a damage cap to enemies on normal could remedy the feeling like you did some unrealistic back jump in skill.. (so there is a damage limit on normal and the cap is realeased on hard mode makeing those players capable of doing the most damage) So vet mode players could have more potential to deal damage than normal players at the cost of ease.. long gone are the days of 10 second overland/delve boss kills before you had a good chance to get there lool.

there is probably so many other things to factor in though so of course it doesnt seem likely we will ever get a system like this..

endgamesmug

Craglorn difficulty i remember it well as a noob back then 😆. Id be fine with bringing it back for that zone, until then ive got my eyes on endless dungeon later in the year 😀

Zenzuki

The only way I could see ZOS bringing a "vet" overland experience to the game that wouldn't split the playerbase and/or cause zoning/instancing issues would be for them to look into expanding the poison crafting system.

Create a new category within the poison crafting system where we could craft "self" debuffing poisons.

There could be a whole realm of options that debuff all the various combo's we already see in-game in the potions/poisons category. i.e. One that debuffs Health and Stamina for X amount of time. Or Tri-pot ones, Or a Mag/Stam regen, Mag/Health one, etc. There'd need to be ones that do each item individually as well though (see stacking thought below).

Just needs to have a host of variations so that a player can debuff themselves in a myriad different ways that they wish too. They would also ideally be stackable, so that each player could (through experimentation) find the right amount of debuffing of whatever stat(s) that will provide the perfect amount of challenge that they're looking for!

This system would be adjustable, expandable and non-permanent. It also means no changes to gear/weps, rewards, xp, etc. would need to be written into the code. Players could continue to wear all the great gear (no need to run around naked or with off weapons, etc.) they've made/earned and enjoy playing in. This would also allow for self adjusting of different characters/builds separately, providing a different "vet" experience per character, etc.

This also doesn't affect anyone else but the players who wish to use these poisons and engage with the system. Players who don't, won't see their gameplay experience change in the slightest. Those who do, can use this to fine-tune their own experience until the "fit" is right. Everyone continues to play in the same space and none are the wiser or affected in any adverse way they don't wish to be.

Of course this wont do anything for mechanics, etc. But we're talking about overland here and there really are none in this space anyway. Also, for the really sadistic players that want an even harder challenge then "hard mode" in a dungeon, they could take this system into those spaces if they wish to really push themselves.

A side benefit of this system would be the creation of a new market that crafters could go after by providing these new "renewable" items to market!


Could this be the way? Thoughts?

HappyTheCamper

It would cut the population of the overland into two separate skill instances, plus they’d now have to balance two separate overlands.

sarahthes

fred4 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Base game dungeons are not terribly difficult even on vet. I think Banished Cells 2 is the only one with a true DPS check.

That may be true for you and me. I would steamroll the place solo, with only the harvester mechanic being a pain. Nonetheless, have you watched a bit of the video? I was amazed that group completed it in 1hr 20min, given their obvious lack of experience.

I mostly meant that with time they could do any vet base game dungeon as long as they didn't die too much. Because you don't need high damage, just patience.

Lumsdenml

I actually like the idea of a "Vet Overland" option, but I'd like to see "Perfected Overland Sets" for the drops on these.

SoraJP

Zenzuki wrote: »

The only way I could see ZOS bringing a "vet" overland experience to the game that wouldn't split the playerbase and/or cause zoning/instancing issues would be for them to look into expanding the poison crafting system.

Create a new category within the poison crafting system where we could craft "self" debuffing poisons.

There could be a whole realm of options that debuff all the various combo's we already see in-game in the potions/poisons category. i.e. One that debuffs Health and Stamina for X amount of time. Or Tri-pot ones, Or a Mag/Stam regen, Mag/Health one, etc. There'd need to be ones that do each item individually as well though (see stacking thought below).

Just needs to have a host of variations so that a player can debuff themselves in a myriad different ways that they wish too. They would also ideally be stackable, so that each player could (through experimentation) find the right amount of debuffing of whatever stat(s) that will provide the perfect amount of challenge that they're looking for!

This system would be adjustable, expandable and non-permanent. It also means no changes to gear/weps, rewards, xp, etc. would need to be written into the code. Players could continue to wear all the great gear (no need to run around naked or with off weapons, etc.) they've made/earned and enjoy playing in. This would also allow for self adjusting of different characters/builds separately, providing a different "vet" experience per character, etc.

This also doesn't affect anyone else but the players who wish to use these poisons and engage with the system. Players who don't, won't see their gameplay experience change in the slightest. Those who do, can use this to fine-tune their own experience until the "fit" is right. Everyone continues to play in the same space and none are the wiser or affected in any adverse way they don't wish to be.

Of course this wont do anything for mechanics, etc. But we're talking about overland here and there really are none in this space anyway. Also, for the really sadistic players that want an even harder challenge then "hard mode" in a dungeon, they could take this system into those spaces if they wish to really push themselves.

A side benefit of this system would be the creation of a new market that crafters could go after by providing these new "renewable" items to market!


Could this be the way? Thoughts?

I really like this idea, but I would put it in the provisioning skill rather than alchemy since the will be "de"buffs that last an hour or two. We could have dishes that use some of the poison ingredients to hurt our stats.

On a side note, the provisioning system as a whole needs a rework as everyone uses the same things, too much low level clutter.

Necrotech_Master

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

although it wouldnt really be necessary to split the players... changing how scaling works for people on vet difficulty would only make it harder for them meaning they would have to try harder to keep up with people on lower difficulty and letting them go all out with their builds..

this way it becomes sort of a necessity after you've acquired enough power as a player as if you just used youre max level OP build then bullying bosses and such without giving others much of a chance to fight probably isnt giving you the gear that you need.... its seems controvertial to incentivise doing making the game more difficult for yourself but you could always choose not to play on a higher difficulty... and its not like they would have to add extra rewards just the higher difficulty would be enough for most people..

adding a damage cap to enemies on normal could remedy the feeling like you did some unrealistic back jump in skill.. (so there is a damage limit on normal and the cap is realeased on hard mode makeing those players capable of doing the most damage) So vet mode players could have more potential to deal damage than normal players at the cost of ease.. long gone are the days of 10 second overland/delve boss kills before you had a good chance to get there lool.

there is probably so many other things to factor in though so of course it doesnt seem likely we will ever get a system like this..

the way your describing it here, it sounds like you basically want some configurable battle spirit-like self debuff

this wouldnt affect anyone else, but it would make the game harder if say, you had -% amount of dmg, healing, recovery, shields, etc

the current battle spirit is -50% dmg, shield size and i think -healing and health recovery is about -55%, which those are much more noticeable when your playing say solo in imperial city

thats the only way i could see that really working, some kind of self debuff akin to battle spirit that only affects yourself

Sparxlost

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

although it wouldnt really be necessary to split the players... changing how scaling works for people on vet difficulty would only make it harder for them meaning they would have to try harder to keep up with people on lower difficulty and letting them go all out with their builds..

this way it becomes sort of a necessity after you've acquired enough power as a player as if you just used youre max level OP build then bullying bosses and such without giving others much of a chance to fight probably isnt giving you the gear that you need.... its seems controvertial to incentivise doing making the game more difficult for yourself but you could always choose not to play on a higher difficulty... and its not like they would have to add extra rewards just the higher difficulty would be enough for most people..

adding a damage cap to enemies on normal could remedy the feeling like you did some unrealistic back jump in skill.. (so there is a damage limit on normal and the cap is realeased on hard mode makeing those players capable of doing the most damage) So vet mode players could have more potential to deal damage than normal players at the cost of ease.. long gone are the days of 10 second overland/delve boss kills before you had a good chance to get there lool.

there is probably so many other things to factor in though so of course it doesnt seem likely we will ever get a system like this..

the way your describing it here, it sounds like you basically want some configurable battle spirit-like self debuff

this wouldnt affect anyone else, but it would make the game harder if say, you had -% amount of dmg, healing, recovery, shields, etc

the current battle spirit is -50% dmg, shield size and i think -healing and health recovery is about -55%, which those are much more noticeable when your playing say solo in imperial city

thats the only way i could see that really working, some kind of self debuff akin to battle spirit that only affects yourself

not exactly.. im pretty sure overland scales with the players level.. so even though me and a level 10 are fighting a boss we are technically not... veteran difficulty would just scale the enemies difficulty to an even higher level.. so the level 160 on normal is hitting level 160 boss and the level 160 on vet is hitting a level 300 boss so to speak.. even though we are hitting the same guy the difficulty of the fight is different for both of us..

KronikFlatulenz

Lol thats punishing people who play casually. It wont happen.

kargen27

"This makes vet difficulty a fun option for more hardcore gamer experiences.."

If fun is the goal you shouldn't care about better rewards.

I would like a way to make overland content more difficult but I see no reason to reward a player for choosing a higher difficulty in overland activities.
For quite a while I was pushing the food/potions debuff option. Eat some food and get a combo of negative affects. Really all this would do though is make the same fights simply last longer. To really give us a more difficult overland that gives us an interesting fight instead of just a longer fight would be to rework the mechanics of the creatures we find in overland then place those in a different instance. That solution is not feasible for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death in the above mentioned thread.

Kendaric

Sparxlost wrote: »

not exactly.. im pretty sure overland scales with the players level.. so even though me and a level 10 are fighting a boss we are technically not... veteran difficulty would just scale the enemies difficulty to an even higher level.. so the level 160 on normal is hitting level 160 boss and the level 160 on vet is hitting a level 300 boss so to speak.. even though we are hitting the same guy the difficulty of the fight is different for both of us..

Overland mobs are actually static level 50 CP 160 and don't scale to the player's level.

The way scaling works here, the player is bolstered which is the reason your stats decrease the closer you get to level 50.

Necrotech_Master

Sparxlost wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

although it wouldnt really be necessary to split the players... changing how scaling works for people on vet difficulty would only make it harder for them meaning they would have to try harder to keep up with people on lower difficulty and letting them go all out with their builds..

this way it becomes sort of a necessity after you've acquired enough power as a player as if you just used youre max level OP build then bullying bosses and such without giving others much of a chance to fight probably isnt giving you the gear that you need.... its seems controvertial to incentivise doing making the game more difficult for yourself but you could always choose not to play on a higher difficulty... and its not like they would have to add extra rewards just the higher difficulty would be enough for most people..

adding a damage cap to enemies on normal could remedy the feeling like you did some unrealistic back jump in skill.. (so there is a damage limit on normal and the cap is realeased on hard mode makeing those players capable of doing the most damage) So vet mode players could have more potential to deal damage than normal players at the cost of ease.. long gone are the days of 10 second overland/delve boss kills before you had a good chance to get there lool.

there is probably so many other things to factor in though so of course it doesnt seem likely we will ever get a system like this..

the way your describing it here, it sounds like you basically want some configurable battle spirit-like self debuff

this wouldnt affect anyone else, but it would make the game harder if say, you had -% amount of dmg, healing, recovery, shields, etc

the current battle spirit is -50% dmg, shield size and i think -healing and health recovery is about -55%, which those are much more noticeable when your playing say solo in imperial city

thats the only way i could see that really working, some kind of self debuff akin to battle spirit that only affects yourself

not exactly.. im pretty sure overland scales with the players level.. so even though me and a level 10 are fighting a boss we are technically not... veteran difficulty would just scale the enemies difficulty to an even higher level.. so the level 160 on normal is hitting level 160 boss and the level 160 on vet is hitting a level 300 boss so to speak.. even though we are hitting the same guy the difficulty of the fight is different for both of us..

the enemies were never set up to scale past cp160, and like others said they are basically hard set at cp160, so as a low lvl player your actually effectively scaled up, which is why you feel weaker as you approach level 50 and return to normal scaling

with the way the game works, scaling the enemy to a higher lvl just wouldnt work, because that would influence how other people are fighting it, a cp300 enemy would be quite stronger than cp160 enemy, and both you and the low lvl would feel it

applying a self debuff is the only way to "self contain" difficulty scaling, and idk how it would be different honestly, back in the old says when you were fighting an enemy over your level, you were taking a flat hit to your effectiveness of everything (thats why a lvl 1 item for a lvl 50 cp160 has a much much lower value than a lvl 1 sees on a lvl 1 item)

so taking how it does in other games and fighting something +5 of your lvl reduces your effectiveness on the enemy by say 80%, if you had a battle spirit like debuff on yourself that is -80% to all of your effects (dmg, shield, healing, etc, or if you want it more hardcore, a -% to max stats too, heck even include stuff like armor, pen, dmg, everything if you want it more difficult, or even a unique +dmg taken from monsters)

this would provide the same "challenge" without it affecting how anyone else is playing

Sparxlost

kargen27 wrote: »

"This makes vet difficulty a fun option for more hardcore gamer experiences.."

If fun is the goal you shouldn't care about better rewards.

I would like a way to make overland content more difficult but I see no reason to reward a player for choosing a higher difficulty in overland activities.
For quite a while I was pushing the food/potions debuff option. Eat some food and get a combo of negative affects. Really all this would do though is make the same fights simply last longer. To really give us a more difficult overland that gives us an interesting fight instead of just a longer fight would be to rework the mechanics of the creatures we find in overland then place those in a different instance. That solution is not feasible for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death in the above mentioned thread.

well its not like they would HAVE to add increased rewards..

Sparxlost

and eating food to make content more difficult is highly unrealistic even more so than getting better rewards for fighting harder bosses... so no..

Sparxlost

because who is going to poison themselves?... willingly?.... KNOWING that it wont do them any good whatsoever.?
..

Sparxlost

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

There is already a 169 page thread on this... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

Yeah, but does it include this particular idea? I actually really like it. Especially if "Craglorn difficulty" meant Craglorn as it was before One Tamriel, e.g. seriously hard for newer players. Going back to even before my time in the game, dolmens were once considered difficult.

The only problem is how to implement this. The game is instanced, true. Even overland zones are, except this is hidden from view. This idea would mean having instances with different difficulty. If you've experienced Craglorn during the trading festival, a time when it gained more instances, you know what a population disaster that can be. Craglorn is the hub for forming (trial) pickup groups. Fragmenting the population made this nearly impossible during the festival.

although it wouldnt really be necessary to split the players... changing how scaling works for people on vet difficulty would only make it harder for them meaning they would have to try harder to keep up with people on lower difficulty and letting them go all out with their builds..

this way it becomes sort of a necessity after you've acquired enough power as a player as if you just used youre max level OP build then bullying bosses and such without giving others much of a chance to fight probably isnt giving you the gear that you need.... its seems controvertial to incentivise doing making the game more difficult for yourself but you could always choose not to play on a higher difficulty... and its not like they would have to add extra rewards just the higher difficulty would be enough for most people..

adding a damage cap to enemies on normal could remedy the feeling like you did some unrealistic back jump in skill.. (so there is a damage limit on normal and the cap is realeased on hard mode makeing those players capable of doing the most damage) So vet mode players could have more potential to deal damage than normal players at the cost of ease.. long gone are the days of 10 second overland/delve boss kills before you had a good chance to get there lool.

there is probably so many other things to factor in though so of course it doesnt seem likely we will ever get a system like this..

the way your describing it here, it sounds like you basically want some configurable battle spirit-like self debuff

this wouldnt affect anyone else, but it would make the game harder if say, you had -% amount of dmg, healing, recovery, shields, etc

the current battle spirit is -50% dmg, shield size and i think -healing and health recovery is about -55%, which those are much more noticeable when your playing say solo in imperial city

thats the only way i could see that really working, some kind of self debuff akin to battle spirit that only affects yourself

not exactly.. im pretty sure overland scales with the players level.. so even though me and a level 10 are fighting a boss we are technically not... veteran difficulty would just scale the enemies difficulty to an even higher level.. so the level 160 on normal is hitting level 160 boss and the level 160 on vet is hitting a level 300 boss so to speak.. even though we are hitting the same guy the difficulty of the fight is different for both of us..

the enemies were never set up to scale past cp160, and like others said they are basically hard set at cp160, so as a low lvl player your actually effectively scaled up, which is why you feel weaker as you approach level 50 and return to normal scaling

with the way the game works, scaling the enemy to a higher lvl just wouldnt work, because that would influence how other people are fighting it, a cp300 enemy would be quite stronger than cp160 enemy, and both you and the low lvl would feel it

applying a self debuff is the only way to "self contain" difficulty scaling, and idk how it would be different honestly, back in the old says when you were fighting an enemy over your level, you were taking a flat hit to your effectiveness of everything (thats why a lvl 1 item for a lvl 50 cp160 has a much much lower value than a lvl 1 sees on a lvl 1 item)

so taking how it does in other games and fighting something +5 of your lvl reduces your effectiveness on the enemy by say 80%, if you had a battle spirit like debuff on yourself that is -80% to all of your effects (dmg, shield, healing, etc, or if you want it more hardcore, a -% to max stats too, heck even include stuff like armor, pen, dmg, everything if you want it more difficult, or even a unique +dmg taken from monsters)

this would provide the same "challenge" without it affecting how anyone else is playing

i said level 300 as an example... the point was to give people the idea that the enemy would be more difficult than they are probably used to... and i didnt want to use a bunch of stats as an example.. (damage, health, resistances etc)

kargen27

Sparxlost wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"This makes vet difficulty a fun option for more hardcore gamer experiences.."

If fun is the goal you shouldn't care about better rewards.

I would like a way to make overland content more difficult but I see no reason to reward a player for choosing a higher difficulty in overland activities.
For quite a while I was pushing the food/potions debuff option. Eat some food and get a combo of negative affects. Really all this would do though is make the same fights simply last longer. To really give us a more difficult overland that gives us an interesting fight instead of just a longer fight would be to rework the mechanics of the creatures we find in overland then place those in a different instance. That solution is not feasible for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death in the above mentioned thread.

well its not like they would HAVE to add increased rewards..

no they wouldn't but these threads almost always suggest better rewards as an incentive to get players into the vet zone.