Ember's Intuition perk seems more like a loss than a gain.

Necrotech_Master

Hamish999 wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

Surely the easiest way to counter this if you are going for the purple loots is just to not have Ember active while you pickpocket :shrug:

After you get all companion-related achievements their perks are always active. For example, you will keep getting Bastian's potions even if he's not summoned.

I must admit I've never seen these on any of my toons.
For example I'm currently doing the Galen story quest on my main with Ember active and I have Bastion fully unlocked to the point of being able to get the potent pots. Never, ever seen a potent pot in my inventory unless Bastion is active.

you need the keepsake for the passive to be permanent (regardless if they are summoned)

if you dont have the keepsake, you have to have the companion active to get the bonus (which at minimum requires unlocking the companion and summoning them regardless of their level or rapport)

as far as im aware the keepsake still works even if you never did the quest on that toon to unlock summoning the companion, but i cant confirm that right now as all of my toons have all of the companions unlocked lol

spartaxoxo

rpa wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I do not get Bastian potions with characters who have not unlocked him. Which includes all I'm currently playing beyond writs. I think all my pickpockets have Ember unlocked. (I do not bother pickpocketing with low legerdemain chars.)

It depends on if you have the achievement that makes it a permanent unlock. There's somethings you have to do with him like max both rapport and level in order for it be available to all characters even if he isn't summoned.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

as far as im aware the keepsake still works even if you never did the quest on that toon to unlock summoning the companion, but i cant confirm that right now as all of my toons have all of the companions unlocked lol

I'm like 80% sure you're right about that.

disintegr8

None of the perks really make them a 'must have' and could really have been better suited to a broader player base (i.e., including veterans of the game)

I get rid of all of the boosted potions, with 18 maxed out characters I don't fight a lot of world bosses, do not pickpocket and have 2 guild banks full of recipes, motifs and other 'bonus' items.

Getting the achievement was the main reason I maxed out their rapport.

Thrasher91604

OP is mistaken. Every time I get a blue wallet I get an extra pickpocket attempt.

Ishtarknows

rpa wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I do not get Bastian potions with characters who have not unlocked him. Which includes all I'm currently playing beyond writs. I think all my pickpockets have Ember unlocked. (I do not bother pickpocketing with low legerdemain chars.)

But you will once Bastian's fully levelled and you've got his memento thing which unlocks the passive all of the time on all of your characters.

Cireous

Does anyone know if you can also get the hidden wallet when feeding?
So pick-pick-pick-feed/wallet? Or pick-pick-feed/wallet?

Jaraal

VampirateV wrote: »

I don't see what the issue is. Wallets don't replace a pickpocket attempt; they're given in addition to the standard 3 attempts. A couple days ago, for instance: after 2 successful picks I got a wallet (so 3rd attempt), and then picked the last item which left the npc on 'empty'. That means I got a total of 4 picks in on one npc, whereas without Ember, I would only have gotten 3. It truly is just a bonus, not a replacement.

Well, some NPCs can hold up to 10 items at once. Can you prove that there are always 4 picks when a wallet drops?

I tried using Ember once while stealing, and the rap decrease when Blade of Woeing to reset the mob greatly outpaced the positive rap for pickpocketing. I'm not going to be encouraged to leave empty marks for others by trying to raise faction with Ember in that manner.

Necrotech_Master

Jaraal wrote: »

VampirateV wrote: »

I don't see what the issue is. Wallets don't replace a pickpocket attempt; they're given in addition to the standard 3 attempts. A couple days ago, for instance: after 2 successful picks I got a wallet (so 3rd attempt), and then picked the last item which left the npc on 'empty'. That means I got a total of 4 picks in on one npc, whereas without Ember, I would only have gotten 3. It truly is just a bonus, not a replacement.

Well, some NPCs can hold up to 10 items at once. Can you prove that there are always 4 picks when a wallet drops?

I tried using Ember once while stealing, and the rap decrease when Blade of Woeing to reset the mob greatly outpaced the positive rap for pickpocketing. I'm not going to be encouraged to leave empty marks for others by trying to raise faction with Ember in that manner.

ember doesnt get a rapport decrease using the blade of woe (she is on live, the only companion that does not get decreased rapport from the BoW)

she doesnt like getting caught, so if you got spotted and accrued bounty in any way (caught picking pocket, caught BoW, etc), then she wont like that

Necrotech_Master

Cireous wrote: »

Does anyone know if you can also get the hidden wallet when feeding?
So pick-pick-pick-feed/wallet? Or pick-pick-feed/wallet?

pretty sure the wallet can only proc from a pickpocket action

Rishikesa108

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

OP is mistaken. Every time I get a blue wallet I get an extra pickpocket attempt.

NO, it's not an OP mistake. The Ember's perk is a loss.
Yes you can pickpocket the same NPC one more time, but your chances will be lower. So it's better to stab the NPC and change target. Ember's perk is not a perk, but a loss.
A friend of mine is no longer using Ember to not get that perk. This is a failure of the purpose of the game.

Thrasher91604

Wrong. It can only be a loss if you fail the pickpocket, which I rarely do. So on the average it is not a loss for me. It is a gain.

Even if you fail on a pickpocket you can come back and try again or kill the npc and loot them, so in those cases it’s still not a loss.

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

OP is mistaken. Every time I get a blue wallet I get an extra pickpocket attempt.

NO, it's not an OP mistake. The Ember's perk is a loss.
Yes you can pickpocket the same NPC one more time, but your chances will be lower. So it's better to stab the NPC and change target. Ember's perk is not a perk, but a loss.
A friend of mine is no longer using Ember to not get that perk. This is a failure of the purpose of the game.

gabbo1928

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Does anyone know if you can also get the hidden wallet when feeding?

pretty sure the wallet can only proc from a pickpocket action

Actually, I can confirm that it is not just from pickpocketing. I had an incident yesterday where I picked twice, then used the blade of woe, and when I looted the corpse, I got a hidden wallet. So we're back to square one. The wallets may not be replacing regular loot items, but they are displacing them. So it is possible to miss out on a 3rd regular loot item if you kill the NPC for their third item, and get a wallet instead. If you get a hidden wallet on the 1st or 2nd pickpocket, you can pick 3 times and then stab to get the last bit of loot.

evan302

I really like the companion system but this puts me off unlocking and levelling some of them.
Ember is now off my list and so is Sharp. I can live with Bastian's perk but it's an annoyance (rewards shouldn't be an annoyance but Bastian's doesn't even work!).
As they stand, I think the perks for these 3 ought to be the 'reward' for getting to 0 rep with them, not maxing it!

Please ZoS, let us toggle Companion perks off.

Necrotech_Master

gabbo1928 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Does anyone know if you can also get the hidden wallet when feeding?

pretty sure the wallet can only proc from a pickpocket action

Actually, I can confirm that it is not just from pickpocketing. I had an incident yesterday where I picked twice, then used the blade of woe, and when I looted the corpse, I got a hidden wallet. So we're back to square one. The wallets may not be replacing regular loot items, but they are displacing them. So it is possible to miss out on a 3rd regular loot item if you kill the NPC for their third item, and get a wallet instead. If you get a hidden wallet on the 1st or 2nd pickpocket, you can pick 3 times and then stab to get the last bit of loot.

i guess that makes sense, if the next pick would have been a wallet, not entirely sure how the game decides if your next pick is a wallet proc or item

PrincessOfThieves

evan302 wrote: »

I really like the companion system but this puts me off unlocking and levelling some of them.
Ember is now off my list and so is Sharp. I can live with Bastian's perk but it's an annoyance (rewards shouldn't be an annoyance but Bastian's doesn't even work!).
As they stand, I think the perks for these 3 ought to be the 'reward' for getting to 0 rep with them, not maxing it!

Please ZoS, let us toggle Companion perks off.

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements (for example, for Ember you need to pickpocket a guard - that's something you can easily avoid).

gabbo1928

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements

I... wh... do you even understand how the mind of a gamer operates? The achievements aren't there for us to not get them!

SpacemanSpiff1

i did a bit of pickpocketing last night and got a wallet on the third pick. a fourth pickpocket was available and the chance of success did not diminish.

evan302

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements (for example, for Ember you need to pickpocket a guard - that's something you can easily avoid).

Since the character I had Ember on is my sneaky thieving one, it is something I can easily avoid, but I don't want to have to do that. I'd like to get the achievement, but I don't want to be punished for doing so (I don't think that's too big an ask).
I chose Ember for that character precisely because Ember is ok with stealing and pick-pocketing. But now I know what getting the achievement means, I'm regretting my choice.

Necrotech_Master

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

evan302 wrote: »

I really like the companion system but this puts me off unlocking and levelling some of them.
Ember is now off my list and so is Sharp. I can live with Bastian's perk but it's an annoyance (rewards shouldn't be an annoyance but Bastian's doesn't even work!).
As they stand, I think the perks for these 3 ought to be the 'reward' for getting to 0 rep with them, not maxing it!

Please ZoS, let us toggle Companion perks off.

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements (for example, for Ember you need to pickpocket a guard - that's something you can easily avoid).

technically speaking, just having the companion active at all gives you that passive, but you still have the option of "turning it off" by putting them away so to speak

if your only using the companions for combat, bastians (and depending on what your fighting, isobels) perks are the only ones that come into play, since any enemy can drop potions which might trigger bastians perk (if your fighting a WB then you could trigger isobels perk)

FeedbackOnly

Fkey wrote: »

I asked Zos about Ember's perk through placing a ticket.
Zos refused to confirm whether the bonus was "in addition" to or "instead of" other loot.
I will never get Ember's perk until it is confirmed one way or the other by -> Zos.

I also will not even bother leveling the Argonian companion if their perk remains a nerf to fishing.

What about bastian?

Finedaible

Fkey wrote: »

I asked Zos about Ember's perk through placing a ticket.
Zos refused to confirm whether the bonus was "in addition" to or "instead of" other loot.
I will never get Ember's perk until it is confirmed one way or the other by -> Zos.

I also will not even bother leveling the Argonian companion if their perk remains a nerf to fishing.

Hmm, I would love to know more context on this. If they indeed refused to answer that then the odds are Ember's perk is probably not in benefit of the player.

I would test it for myself but I don't want to risk nerfing my account even further after Bastian.

phaneub17_ESO

gabbo1928 wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements

I... wh... do you even understand how the mind of a gamer operates? The achievements aren't there for us to not get them!

I intentionally keep Bastian at cordial after getting him as a houseguest. I stole and killed my way until he went from allied back down to his neutral state! He will never unlock his potions memento!

Aelorin

Bastian's potions are not that super duper great. I see them more as a way to decrease my allready low inventory slots. That's why I don't want to unlock his achievement. That way I only get extra potions when Bastian is out;

Füßchen

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

You can still use these companions, just don't complete the achievements (for example, for Ember you need to pickpocket a guard - that's something you can easily avoid).

That is true in theory, but doesn't work for everyone sadly.
I only realised her "perk" after I already did pickpocket a guard. The only thing I didn't yet for that achievement is getting her to max level. I like her the most of the four and would really like to use her more, but she's already on lvl 18 or 19, so I can't really summon her anymore if I don't want to risk getting the achievement eventually.
I usually try to get all achievements so that I can't get that one is annoying too, but that I can't take the one companion with me, that I'm somewhat ok with is even worse.

If one is farming chests for paintings, Miri's perk can become pretty annoying too, because it fills up the inventory even faster than it already does. In other situations I like getting those bags, but for chest farming it would be great to turn it off.

tenryuta

a 4th pickpocket when your target procs the intuition(can be 1st try too), and instead a bag of loot you prob already have, its a single item worth 100-1000(991g on one of my picks, so i assume it tops out at 1k), on use not fence, also cant be fenced or laundered. knight pack from REY, i mean isobel is not that amazing, as well mirri's perk, and when people read this azandar(launder his so the treasures can be sold normally)

Hapexamendios

The wallet is far better than getting a crappy white item or lousy lock pick. It doesn't bug me that the percentage goes down. I get an extra chance and that's a good thing.

wolfie1.0.

Can we please just have these work like event buffs? You can make them last for 3 hour periods but being able to disable them is a bonus imo. Sometimes you just don't want the clutter.

evymyu233

agree

Holycannoli

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

i did a bit of pickpocketing last night and got a wallet on the third pick. a fourth pickpocket was available and the chance of success did not diminish.

But that's the problem: You have to take a chance again.

What the perk should do is add a wallet to the loot with a successful pickpocket, not replace an item, so you loot the item and the wallet at the same time. Why it doesn't do this is beyond me.

I don't know about anyone else but my dedicated pickpocket character routinely fails easy attempts, as if the percentage shown does not matter. With the perk I have to wait to roll the dice again and there's a good chance I fail, even with a character with max chance of success. It's so maddening to know that instead of that lousy wallet I would have gotten the loot and now I have to roll the dice again.

The perk makes the whole process of getting to that final loot take extra time and forces an extra chance to fail which makes it take even more time. It's a net loss all around for a measly extra 100 or so gold.

richo262

gabbo1928 wrote: »

EDIT: Others pointed out (and I have since confirmed) that pickpocketing a hidden wallet does not reduce the number of loot items an NPC carries. It does still reduce your success chance for the next pickpocket, and I always pick twice, then stab and loot, so I wasn't aware that I was missing out on a final piece of loot by doing that. Even though that resolves my specific complaint, I'm leaving this thread because it came to light that the upcoming Argonian companion's perk increases your odds of trophy fish, which actively works against people who are looking for filet fish instead of trophy fish. Since completing a companion's achievements unlocks their perk account-wide, it would be nice to have a QoL update to allow you to toggle those bonuses on/off for whatever reason.

-- Original thread below --

Of the four companions released thus far, three of them have perks that are truly bonuses. Bastian's will sometimes put bonus stats on looted potions. Isobel will sometimes give you extra goodies in addition to regular world boss loot, and Mirri's will sometimes give you extra loot from treasure chests.

Then there's Ember. With her, you will sometimes get a "hidden wallet" containing a random gold amount when pickpocketing. The crucial difference is that you get this wallet instead of other loot, not in addition to it.

With my passives and CP, most of my pickpocket loot is green or blue, with the occasional white or rare purple. Also due to passives and CP, I get 135 gold when I sell a green treasure to a fence. Of the dozen or so hidden wallets I opened today, only one had more than 135 gold in it (151), meaning that most of the time they are worth less than a green treasure, which is my most frequent drop.

It seems like this perk should be adjusted to work like the others, granting you the hidden wallet in addition to the loot you would have gotten. Or the gold amount in the wallet should be adjusted to fall within a higher range, at least between the 135 and 270 gold that a fully decked out player would get from a fence for green or blue treasure.

I'm sure it seems like an inconsequential amount of gold, but I pickpocket a lot, and it is really starting to feel like I'm losing out every time I get a wallet. And as far as I can tell, there is no way to disable Ember's perk once you have unlocked it.

I have not unlocked a single one and I don't want to.

Bastion - Clutters your inventory with a potion type that is inferior to what you would (or should) be using, and not abundant enough to warrant a slot in your quickslot bar. It takes up slots in your inventory.

Mirri and Isobel are okay, but I'd rather not have to check my inventory for containers to open.

Ember - As you have describe above

of the new ones, the arcanist seems okay yet to hear anything bad, but again why give me a container? The Warden however, that is stupid, that is a perma nerf to Roe. If Sharp increased the chance of a Roe drop that'd be better, OR make trophy fish a 'pick up once' thing that never drops again and Sharps perk is the more fishing achieves you have, the higher your Roe chance is.