Why are some daily endeavors so time-consuming ?

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I never said that there shouldn't be varied activities for daily endeavors. I will never do the arena one myself because I find arenas tedious at best. But despite my distaste for them I am standing up for those that do enjoy them and advocating that they are worth more seals than they are getting.

But several of the people disagreeing here are the ones doing arenas, including myself. Many of us don't want the seals system to change because we like the freedom it affords. If seals were changed so that they look like what I posted above, I'd never do the easy ones again.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Complete an Arena 50 seals
Complete a dungeon 15 seals
Inflict an enemy with poison 10 seals
Complete a quest 5 seals
Win a duel 50 seals

And everyone looking to maximize their deals would HAVE to do an Arena, Dungeon, and Duel that day. Complete a quest would not be a real option and you'd have to avoid the pledge so as not to complete the quest.

I like to organize my group activities around what guilds and friends want to do, when they want to do it. And not around ZOS's arbitrary daily schedule.

The arenas are already both a weekly and a daily.

kargen27

SilverBride wrote: »

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that they are very time consuming and a reward of 15 seals is not adequate compensation, especially when compared to other daily endeavors such as do two quests or gather 10 resources.

"It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that I don't like it."

Seriously.

"It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that I don't like it players that choose to do the arena daily endeavor are being greatly undercompensated for the time and effort they put into doing it."

not if they were going to do it anyway. Just like all the other endeavors. You can get a small extra for playing as you want or you can chase down an endeavor doing something you normally do not do also for a small reward. The outcry would be huge if certain daily endeavors offered a better reward than others. Players would be angry that their preferred activities are worth so much less.

SeaGtGruff

kargen27 wrote: »

With the luck I had tonight I think I could have run an arena quicker than I inflicted how every many enemies it was with poison. Seems my poison rarely inflicts anything.

Since poison is NOT applied 100% of the time-- I think it might be more like 15% of the time, but I'm not sure-- what I do for the "weapon poisons" endeavors is find some large mobs of low-level enemies and either just light attack without using any skills if they aren't swarming me too badly, or just spam my 1vX melee skill so I'm hitting as many of them at once as I can. But the idea is, try to hit them with attacks that do less damage per hit, so it takes more hits to kill them, so you have a better chance of inflicting poison on some of them.

You could also try soloing a WB that repeatedly spawns lots of adds, such as Song Bird (the Nereid WB) in Vvardenfell, or Nilthog (the Nix-Ox WB), or the Mudcrab boss in Fungal Grotto I, etc.

If you've got a high DPS and tend to one-shot insta-kill everything, consider using a character with a lower DPS, or use your Armory to switch to a build that is purposely designed to have lower DPS (to make overland more fun).

Of course, you can still get the endeavor completed with a high DPS, it will just most likely take a lot longer.

kargen27

Yeah I go with the light attack strategy. For some reason this go round it seemed to not want to pop. I usually do the poison, weapon and skill kill endeavors around Dreugh Waters. Plenty of targets that respawn quick enough you can get in a good circle of destruction.

Gnesnig

SilverBride wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that arenas and other similar activities are time consuming and should reward more seals for the effort required. In my opinion this makes them inappropriate for a daily endeavor because they are worth way more seals than they can be rewarded as a daily.

You are looking for the wrong consistency. You can only complete 3 daily endavours. There are always 3 available that require little to no prior knowledge/skill and are easy to do. Then there are 2 that could pull in some players that normally don't look at endavours (like me), because they do that activity anyway. That might prompt them to look at the others and assess if they can be bothered to do them. The reward is the same, because for these people, there is no effort: they were going to do this activity regardless of the endavours, so the endavour reward is a bonus not an investment that can be measured by effort/reward.

MreeBiPolar

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Since poison is NOT applied 100% of the time-- I think it might be more like 15% of the time

20%, with 10s cooldown. If you hover over any poison, it says so.

Nestor

We have a choice of 3 from 5. So there are always two Endeavors you cant do. One of those two can be the Trial.

Stefirex

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that arenas and other similar activities are time consuming and should reward more seals for the effort required. In my opinion this makes them inappropriate for a daily endeavor because they are worth way more seals than they can be rewarded as a daily.

But, they really aren't though. Not anymore time consuming that a daily random dungeon can be.

Normal Maelstrom takes like 20 minutes to do. Normal Vateshran takes like 20 minutes to do.

A random dungeon in the dungeon finder, something a lot of people do daily, could take an hour if you end up in the wrong dungeon.

There is no reason an arena that takes under a half hour to do should not be considered as part of a daily activity. Especially one that shows up here and there, and not really regularly at all.

When was the last time you Did Normal Maelstrom in 20 minutes? I was doing it last week and my best time was 45 minutes worst was well over an hour. Depends on the class you're playing and what skills they have.

SeaGtGruff

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Since poison is NOT applied 100% of the time-- I think it might be more like 15% of the time

20%, with 10s cooldown. If you hover over any poison, it says so.

Thank you for that info! You can tell I don't hover over any poison very often.

opalcity

kargen27 wrote: »

Yeah I go with the light attack strategy. For some reason this go round it seemed to not want to pop. I usually do the poison, weapon and skill kill endeavors around Dreugh Waters. Plenty of targets that respawn quick enough you can get in a good circle of destruction.

The day we got the poison enemies endeavour, we also got a do one dungeon endeavour. So I equipped some poison and went to Fungal Grotto, had the poison one done as I was killing the first boss, just from light attacks, switching between bow and 2H.

Don't know if switching between bars makes any difference whatsoever, just feels like it sometimes!

Katlefiya

SilverBride wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that I don't like it players that choose to do the arena daily endeavor are being greatly undercompensated for the time and effort they put into doing it."

The arena compensates for the time and effort with lots of loot and XP. You are not supposed to do it for the endeavor allone.

Where is this written?

Source has already been quoted in this very thread. Look, you can of course decide for yourself that you will engage in certain activities just for the endeavor points alone, as we all do from time to time, but you can't turn around and demand that ZOS starts to compensate some activities more than others, just because they might be more time consuming for your own playstyle. That clearly goes against developer intent.

jaws343

Stefirex wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that arenas and other similar activities are time consuming and should reward more seals for the effort required. In my opinion this makes them inappropriate for a daily endeavor because they are worth way more seals than they can be rewarded as a daily.

But, they really aren't though. Not anymore time consuming that a daily random dungeon can be.

Normal Maelstrom takes like 20 minutes to do. Normal Vateshran takes like 20 minutes to do.

A random dungeon in the dungeon finder, something a lot of people do daily, could take an hour if you end up in the wrong dungeon.

There is no reason an arena that takes under a half hour to do should not be considered as part of a daily activity. Especially one that shows up here and there, and not really regularly at all.

When was the last time you Did Normal Maelstrom in 20 minutes? I was doing it last week and my best time was 45 minutes worst was well over an hour. Depends on the class you're playing and what skills they have.

I did vet Maelstrom in 37 minutes last week. Normal Maelstrom mobs and bosses are easier to kill than fungal grotto 1 on normal. Most of them die in in one light attack and spammable weave.

Haven't specifically done normal in a while as I've been farming perfected weapons, but the last time I did was around 20 minutes. Probably quicker now on a heavy attack build. Most of the time spent on normal is waiting for rounds to start.

SilverBride

Katlefiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that I don't like it players that choose to do the arena daily endeavor are being greatly undercompensated for the time and effort they put into doing it."

The arena compensates for the time and effort with lots of loot and XP. You are not supposed to do it for the endeavor allone.

Where is this written?

Source has already been quoted in this very thread. Look, you can of course decide for yourself that you will engage in certain activities just for the endeavor points alone, as we all do from time to time, but you can't turn around and demand that ZOS starts to compensate some activities more than others, just because they might be more time consuming for your own playstyle. That clearly goes against developer intent.

I haven't seen any source quoted but I will do that now. And this source clearly states that endeavors are tasks that we will be asked to complete in order to earn seals. So while many of these may complete just from playing, nowhere does it state or indicate that "You are not supposed to do it for the endeavor allone."

Here’s how it works: When you log in, you’ll automatically receive various daily and weekly Endeavors that ask you to complete different tasks.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59925

SeaGtGruff

jaws343 wrote: »

Normal Maelstrom mobs and bosses are easier to kill than fungal grotto 1 on normal. Most of them die in in one light attack and spammable weave.

That is baloney. Maybe it is YOUR experience, but it definitely isn't MINE.

It is nonsensical to make such a sweepingly-generalized claim as though it will be equally true for all players and all player characters, when it is a fact that different builds have different capabilities as far as handling specific content. Otherwise, please explain why so many players are so hung up on builds, skill bar setups, the "right rotations," etc.

Familiarity with given content can go a long way toward how easily a player can handle that content, but even then build can make a big difference. I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC NA main, yet cannot solo them on my PC EU main. And the converse is also true-- I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC EU nain, yet cannot solo them on my PC NA main. Same knowledge of the mechanics, different builds-- different results.

jaws343

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Normal Maelstrom mobs and bosses are easier to kill than fungal grotto 1 on normal. Most of them die in in one light attack and spammable weave.

That is baloney. Maybe it is YOUR experience, but it definitely isn't MINE.

It is nonsensical to make such a sweepingly-generalized claim as though it will be equally true for all players and all player characters, when it is a fact that different builds have different capabilities as far as handling specific content. Otherwise, please explain why so many players are so hung up on builds, skill bar setups, the "right rotations," etc.

Familiarity with given content can go a long way toward how easily a player can handle that content, but even then build can make a big difference. I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC NA main, yet cannot solo them on my PC EU main. And the converse is also true-- I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC EU nain, yet cannot solo them on my PC NA main. Same knowledge of the mechanics, different builds-- different results.

We're talking about normal Maelstrom here. It's been easy since I first hit cp in the game 6 years ago and it's only gotten easier as damage has increased.

Normal. Not vet. Like, even on vet, a single heavy attack on an oaken build kills most mobs in there. This is class agnostic, just a heavy attack. And normal is even easier.

You don't even need a PvE build to do normal maelstrom. You don't even need a rotation. Because nothing in normal is even close to being challenging.

FantasticFreddie

I have never once gone out of my way to get endeavors. Usually they pop up on my screen when I am engaged in something else and my reaction is "oh well that's nice".

jaws343

jaws343 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Normal Maelstrom mobs and bosses are easier to kill than fungal grotto 1 on normal. Most of them die in in one light attack and spammable weave.

That is baloney. Maybe it is YOUR experience, but it definitely isn't MINE.

It is nonsensical to make such a sweepingly-generalized claim as though it will be equally true for all players and all player characters, when it is a fact that different builds have different capabilities as far as handling specific content. Otherwise, please explain why so many players are so hung up on builds, skill bar setups, the "right rotations," etc.

Familiarity with given content can go a long way toward how easily a player can handle that content, but even then build can make a big difference. I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC NA main, yet cannot solo them on my PC EU main. And the converse is also true-- I can solo certain WBs with ease on my PC EU nain, yet cannot solo them on my PC NA main. Same knowledge of the mechanics, different builds-- different results.

We're talking about normal Maelstrom here. It's been easy since I first hit cp in the game 6 years ago and it's only gotten easier as damage has increased.

Normal. Not vet. Like, even on vet, a single heavy attack on an oaken build kills most mobs in there. This is class agnostic, just a heavy attack. And normal is even easier.

You don't even need a PvE build to do normal maelstrom. You don't even need a rotation. Because nothing in normal is even close to being challenging.

I mean, objectively, you can go in and see this for yourself. These are the health levels of enemies you are dealing with in both.

Fungal
Mob everything 35-49k
Boss first mini 290k
Boss first main 1.3M

Maelstrom first round
Mob 11-15k for most, 3 enemies have more than 30k health
Boss 249K

The majority of mobs in maelstrom can be 1 shot with a spammable. That isn't build or class, 11k damage kills them. And the round bosses don't even have as much health as the easiest dungeon in the game's first mini boss. Let alone the first real boss.

SilverBride

The mobs in a dungeon are done at whatever pace the player chooses, while the mobs in an arena are done at whatever pace the arena spawns them. There are times the player is just standing and waiting for the next wave.

It takes me a full hour to clear Maelstrom on my best character and it took me 2 hours to complete on my less powerful characters. I don't know how anyone could complete this arena in 20 minutes due to the timed way the mobs are spawned.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

The mobs in a dungeon are done at whatever pace the player chooses, while the mobs in an arena are done at whatever pace the arena spawns them. There are times the player is just standing and waiting for the next wave.

It takes me a full hour to clear Maelstrom on my best character and it took me 2 hours to complete on my less powerful characters. I don't know anyone could complete this arena in 20 minutes due to the timed way the mobs are spawned.

I just did it in the time since my last post. 25 minutes. That was slow because I was making sure to clock enemy health while I went.

No boss has more than 500k health. Only a handful of enemies have 100k. The majority are under 20k. In the entire arena.

SilverBride

I would like to see that.

AzuraFan

I'm okay with the way things are because I figure it all comes out in the wash. There are days when you can complete the endeavors in a total of 5-10 minutes (read a lore book, drink 3 drinks, and do 1 quest can be done in 5 minutes total, for example). Other days might take longer. It balances out over time.

I usually do three endeavors daily, except when one is too time consuming. When I do skip one, I'm only losing out on 10-15 seals, so no big deal.

I don't want to see them awarding different seal amounts because then I WILL feel like I'm missing out if I don't spend the time doing the endeavor that's rewarding the highest amount. Right now, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything if I skip the occasional one.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like to see that.

I'll have to record it the next time I go in.

Out of curiosity I went to forgotten wastes public dungeon and every mob in there has more health than the common mobs in maelstrom and the bosses have comparable health between the two. Putting normal maelstrom as easy as some overland content.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like to see that.

I'll have to record it the next time I go in.

Out of curiosity I went to forgotten wastes public dungeon and every mob in there has more health than the common mobs in maelstrom and the bosses have comparable health between the two. Putting normal maelstrom as easy as some overland content.

Thanks.

The mobs may be easy on their own but as I pointed out there is still some downtime between the waves of enemies and the different levels. I find running dungeons to be much faster because some bosses can be skipped and the player can set the pace.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"It doesn't matter how often an arena is the daily endeavor. It doesn't matter if some players do these every day. What matters is that I don't like it players that choose to do the arena daily endeavor are being greatly undercompensated for the time and effort they put into doing it."

The arena compensates for the time and effort with lots of loot and XP. You are not supposed to do it for the endeavor allone.

Where is this written?

Source has already been quoted in this very thread. Look, you can of course decide for yourself that you will engage in certain activities just for the endeavor points alone, as we all do from time to time, but you can't turn around and demand that ZOS starts to compensate some activities more than others, just because they might be more time consuming for your own playstyle. That clearly goes against developer intent.

I haven't seen any source quoted but I will do that now.

I quoted it earlier but I can repost it since it got buried by the next page.

The number of daily or weekly Endeavors you can complete each day or week will vary, so be sure to check what the cap currently is and work out which of the available Endeavors you’d like to take on. This is to ensure that everybody, regardless of their play style, has an opportunity to earn the new currency without having to complete activities they don’t necessarily enjoy.

They are stating in a diplomatic way that the point is to let people skip seals instead feeling forced to do a particular endeavor that they can't or won't do.

spartaxoxo

Also here's a 20 minute Normal Vatheshran Hallow video. I do tend to go here rather than NMA because I do find it's easier to go faster in NVH due to the downtime and inability to skip mobs. Anyone can see I even made mistakes in this video that cost me time like forgetting to put back on my spears and messing up the blessing mechanic a little. So, I could get this done in less than 20 minutes if I had been trying harder.

https://youtu.be/Wq5ezAmLYFI

It does not take me an hour to clear any solo normal arena. They are on par with dungeons. This is not on an elite build. I am not an elite player, their damage quite significantly outpaces mine. So, others could get it done even faster.

SilverBride

It doesn't matter if some players can run these arenas fast... most of us can't. And I'll never understand how 20 minutes is even possible.

And the quote I posted was in response to someone saying we aren't meant to do these activities for the endeavors alone. It had nothing to do with completing activities we do or don't enjoy.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

It doesn't matter if some players can run these arenas fast... most of us can't. And I'll never understand how 20 minutes is even possible.

And the quote I posted was in response to someone saying we aren't meant to do these activities for the endeavors alone. It had nothing to do with completing activities we do or don't enjoy.

It does have to do with that because it's explicitly designed to be skipped. Players are supposed to skip endeavors that would be bad for them for whatever reason. The devs cited enjoy as the top reason to word it diplomatically. But players are supposed to skip for other reasons too. For example, they can't do it. Or because it doesn't suit their playstyle. Or it would take too long. Any reason under the sun really, you're intended to skip it if it wouldn't be something that would be good for that player to be spending their time doing.

SilverBride

I never once said players shouldn't skip endeavors they don't enjoy. I am saying that it is completely acceptable to purposely complete an endeavor and we don't have to just wait for them to complete on their own.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I never once said players shouldn't skip endeavors they don't enjoy. I am saying that it is completely acceptable to purposely complete an endeavor and we don't have to just wait for them to complete on their own.

Well, yes. I wasn't disputing that. As I said it earlier, I purposefully do all the endeavors.

I was disagreeing that the system is designed with that idea in mind rather than skipping, since some want the endeavor system changed because some players choose to do endeavors that aren't worth the time investment they are putting into it.

ZOS_Hadeostry

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