The Actual State of ESO

Tradewind

https://youtu.be/4Zv5f40sCM0

I couldn't agree more. But in my opinion, to put it simply:
What I understand in the first 16 minutes is: Bla bla bla "... we are tired because we don't have anything more to do..." , and "... you don't have the money to pay us for that really nice GH achievement...", "...Players don't pay us, and they are too inexperienced to play with us, so we just leave...."

19:20 Open raid leaders? Almost none. They are not "open" anymore, they are "services" now.
20:00 It's okay if they don't pay us, because there will be others who will pay. But none of us will help you achieve that skin. R.I.P
21:00 It is indeed a big mess. Zenimax allowed it and to many players contribute to that mess. Players even have to pay for the loot of one weapon because no one cares about the game anymore; it's all about money. It's sad and a big mess without any question. "-Pay me 100k, and I'll help you get that weapon in one run instead of having to repeat the Dungeon 300 times to find it.
23:43 Yes, players can change this, and they have to.

I could add many more points about the fact that the future is not bright for ESO. However, I won't do it again.
I find it challenging to express my opinion and make friends at the same time.

Ishtarknows

I don't think we watched the same video. I missed where Nefas talks about players paying for a GH carry or selling guaranteed gear drops from group content.

Regarding the latter, if I don't have time to farm a new motif I'll happily buy the pages that other people spent the time farming from guild stores. If I can't be bothered/don't have time to farm a PoN dagger I'd pay for the convenience of getting it in one run. I don't see the difference. It's paying people for their time which is a valuable resource.

robwolf666

I sure hope he's talking about in-game gold when he talks about "paying"... if people are desperate enough to pay real money... it's sad on one side and exploitative on the other.

Ishtarknows

robwolf666 wrote: »

I sure hope he's talking about in-game gold when he talks about "paying"... if people are desperate enough to pay real money... it's sad on one side and exploitative on the other.

All the carries I've been involved in are gold only affairs. Pays for my pots

colossalvoids

Don't think we watched the same one here.

Sylosi

Tradewind wrote: »

It's okay if they don't pay us, because there will be others who will pay. But none of us will help you achieve that skin. R.I.P

The people who want to charge to carry someone through a trial or whatever aren't really the problem. The problem are the people who have no real interest in the content / game play, but just want to be carried for some skin or "achievement" in a video game, it's pathetic.

SerafinaWaterstar

This is about the state of the game from the perspective of ‘content creators’ or streamers, and the issue of declining viewership etc, not the *actual* state of the game, as experienced by the average player.

I play on PSEU, and we have had a resurgence of old players returning & a revitalisation of trial groups (gotta love HA oakensoul builds).

But of the many guilds I am in, very few people watch streamers. They may use the guides for builds & vet stuff, but rarely do they actually watch live streamers. It may be that it is because most of us are older aged players, and as such we have busy lives plus streaming is not a big part of the gaming - if we have the time, we would rather play ourselves than watch someone else play.

But this is just my opinion & observation. And to be honest streaming (I can’t call them content creators as its such a misnomer) is something I find baffling, rather pointless and not something against which the game should be measured.

Tradewind

Sylosi wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

It's okay if they don't pay us, because there will be others who will pay. But none of us will help you achieve that skin. R.I.P

The people who want to charge to carry someone through a trial or whatever aren't really the problem. The problem are the people who have no real interest in the content / game play, but just want to be carried for some skin or "achievement" in a video game, it's pathetic.

For example, I have helped some players level up their characters in BRP for free. Now, I see them selling rides in BRP to make a profit. When I asked one of these players to help me (while using a different account), do you know what he said to me? "-I can help you for 3 million."
Of course, not all players are like this, but making deals like this is becoming more common and it's not good for the game.

The actual state of ESO is not bad, but it will not get better. And one thing I know for sure, it's not because of the game itself.


edit:
This happens so many times in vTrials:

• When the whole group enters the trial, someone shouts: "I can pay for this item."

And in my mind, I can only think: "Why on earth should I help someone get this money? If someone loots this item, it's because all others 11 players helped him finish the trial. How can he even think about selling it?" And yes, I move out almost every time.

If a player had to pay for help with loot\skin\personality etc... why should they help others for free in the future?

I respect all opinions that think this is not bad for the game, but I disagree with those who think like that.

RMW

Don't think we watched the same video. Where is he saying these things?
The minutes you posted don't talk about carry services.

Eldartar

Just an opinion from an average player of long standing (Since Beta)

The "Community Spirit" that was once a firm part of the game died a long time ago to be replaced with "It's gonna cost you X amount of gold"

To a large extent it has become a selfish culture rather than a helpful culture.

The Game boasts the mantra "Play the way you want" has done since day 1 but in actual fact it should (in the opinion of some) say "Play the way you want as long as it's with 2 bars and you have a complex rotation and wear meta gear"

The "Elite" will scream for nerfs to this and that if anything doesn't conform to their idea of how you should be playing the game.

As long as you're not hurting anyone or cheating, as long as you play within the games rules/regulations, Play the way you want.

I have played 1 bar Solo HA /Pet Sorc since Beta and still love it, I just wish I was left to enjoy it and people would stop trying to force me and others to change our play style to conform to their ideal. To stop trying to make us feel inferior because we play with 1 Bar.

Rant over.

thorwyn

Pay me 100k, and I'll help you get that weapon in one run instead of having to repeat the Dungeon 300 times to find it.

Yep, that's how the world works. People are spending their time to generate a product that they can offer for sale. And you, as a potential customer, can chose to buy that product, or create one yourself.

In this case:
You can chose to run the dungeon "300 times" to get the drop, OR you can buy it in one run from someone who is offering the drop with 100% chance.
What you can not do is EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO GRIND THE DUNGEON 300 TIMES AND THEN GIVE IT TO YOU FOR FREE because we are such a great community and everyonne cares for the game etc.etc. You might get the drop for free from a guild mate or a friend, but don't demand it, especially not from a complete stranger.

And in my mind, I can only think: "Why on earth should I help someone get this money? If someone loots this item, it's because all others 11 players helped him finish the trial. How can he even think about selling it?"

Maybe the person who got the drop does not need it? Why do you even care what other people are doing with their drops or money? Why should someone keep a drop that he doesn't need? Who are you to judge other players who agree on a deal? If both players would have made the deal via whisper instead of group chat, you wouldn't even know about it.

LarsS

That video is 4 months old! Nefas is more positive presently.

licenturion

This 'content creation ecosystem' he is talking about is such BS.

There are a lot of games like The Witcher 3 for instance that have a 40K average player count each month on PC and Steam alone but has almost no YouTube videos these days or less than 100 viewers on Twitch.

The same can be said about games like No Man Sky, Red Dead 2, Cities Skylines and many other games in different genres.

There are a lot of people who are actually playing the game instead of watching someone else play. And only looking at Twitch viewer numbers is not the right metric to see how popular a game actually is. ESO also has a lot of casual players who play for lore or PvE and are not constantly looking for the latest min/max gearset video guide because you don't really need that if a casual player can defeat a world boss easily with random gear and a companion.

redlink1979

Paying for items in the era of weighted arena/dungeon/trial drops? Ok..... lol

RedRoomGaming

licenturion wrote: »

There are a lot of people who are actually playing the game instead of watching someone else play. And only looking at Twitch viewer numbers is not the right metric to see how popular a game actually is. ESO also has a lot of casual players who play for lore or PvE and are not constantly looking for the latest min/max gearset video guide because you don't really need that if a casual player can defeat a world boss easily with random gear and a companion.

This is me, I genuinely could not care about streamers (personally I don’t see it enjoyable that’s much) I would rather switch on the game, do my writs, farm and fish.

I do have a one bar build purely as I wanted to try parsing and seeing what numbers I could pull but I have 3 playable toons out of 18. The rest are for writs and daily dungeon xp. I have dabbled in pvp in the past but lately now all the people I used to play with have left and I’m just in trading guilds I stick to pve.

INM

People were always selling drops tbh. People just got a convenient way to do so.
PS: Esofam was always a facade, don't expect from a random person to care about you.

Katheriah

Did you link the wrong video?

FantasticFreddie

There are several trials that I have a full stickerbook in. I don't need a single drop from those trials, but if someone asks me for help running them, be it for experience or gear, I'm down for that.

Now, say I get a coveted drop-- Sul xan dagger, maybe, or a roaring opportunist ice staff.

I don't need these items, but someone whispers me "I'll pay you 50k for that drop!!!"
Now, if I joined specifically to help out a friend farming gear I'll check with that friend first about my highly coveted drop, and if they need it, I'll tell the whisperer "sorry it's already been claimed"
If I don't, I'll initiate trade, and if they offer money I'll accept it, but I don't ask for it.

Armanie

Im fascinated by the difference between his face and his voice

tohopka_eso

Who ??? don't really watch streamers or whatever name they use.

I been playing MMO's since '98 and since then, there have always been carry's. Some charge, some do it as part of there guild requirements for raids. It's just the nature of people and gaming.

If gamers are willing to pay its on them, not the community and not the publisher of the game.

isadoraisacat

People make excuses for people paying … to win through Carrie’s but they want to ban HA attack play style where these people actually PLAY and do all the mechanics of the game which is 100 times harder than weaving (which isn’t even hard it’s just not fun ).

Ok

Kiralyn2000

I'm tired of "streamers" and "content creators" and "influencers", and people thinking that they mean something.


---
And yeah, I remember people selling raid carries in vanilla WoW. Which was before cash shops, and f2p, and p2w, and any of that stuff. It's not something new. it's a normal part of MMOs. The top progression raiding guilds sold carries in their "farm" raids, to get the gold to fund their attempts at the toughest raids.

(no, I don't raid, and I've never sold or bought a carry.)

TaSheen

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I'm tired of "streamers" and "content creators" and "influencers", and people thinking that they mean something.


---
And yeah, I remember people selling raid carries in vanilla WoW. Which was before cash shops, and f2p, and p2w, and any of that stuff. It's not something new. it's a normal part of MMOs. The top progression raiding guilds sold carries in their "farm" raids, to get the gold to fund their attempts at the toughest raids.

(no, I don't raid, and I've never sold or bought a carry.)

This.

freespirit

The state of the game is different from each person's point of view, the op seems to have issues about high lvl hard veteran content, he has made several similar threads about access to these trials/dungeons.

Personally I don't worry too much about that kind of content but if I was good enough and wanted to do it I would just go to my guilds and try to arrange groups or ask one of our many great trials player members if I could join one of their trials guilds. There is absolutely no need to ever pay for runs/gear imo!!

On the subject of the video and streamer's, never watched a video or stream except for ZoS's content reveal events.

Watch pointless internet stuff?? Or Play game?? Sorry I play the game!!

bbrown0770

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I'm tired of "streamers" and "content creators" and "influencers", and people thinking that they mean something.


---
And yeah, I remember people selling raid carries in vanilla WoW. Which was before cash shops, and f2p, and p2w, and any of that stuff. It's not something new. it's a normal part of MMOs. The top progression raiding guilds sold carries in their "farm" raids, to get the gold to fund their attempts at the toughest raids.

(no, I don't raid, and I've never sold or bought a carry.)

^^^^^this I so agree^^^^^

Lumsdenml

Tradewind wrote: »

https://youtu.be/4Zv5f40sCM0



I could add many more points about the fact that the future is not bright for ESO. However, I won't do it again.
I find it challenging to express my opinion and make friends at the same time.

Interesting.... according the Steam Charts (the only reliable measure we have of such things) the average number of players over the last 30 days is up 36% from last September.....

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#6m

Tandor

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

This is about the state of the game from the perspective of ‘content creators’ or streamers, and the issue of declining viewership etc, not the *actual* state of the game, as experienced by the average player.

I play on PSEU, and we have had a resurgence of old players returning & a revitalisation of trial groups (gotta love HA oakensoul builds).

But of the many guilds I am in, very few people watch streamers. They may use the guides for builds & vet stuff, but rarely do they actually watch live streamers. It may be that it is because most of us are older aged players, and as such we have busy lives plus streaming is not a big part of the gaming - if we have the time, we would rather play ourselves than watch someone else play.

But this is just my opinion & observation. And to be honest streaming (I can’t call them content creators as its such a misnomer) is something I find baffling, rather pointless and not something against which the game should be measured.

This. Spot on.

mocap

All that talk after last year update (LA nerfs etc) turned out to be nothing: vet players didn't vanished, there are still tons of players in Craglorn searching for trials. There are queues in Cyrodiil without any events (except non-cp campaign).

Sorry but all this analytics about "ESO die" is not worth a guar excrement.

thorwyn

All that talk after last year update (LA nerfs etc) turned out to be nothing: vet players didn't vanished, there are still tons of players in Craglorn searching for trials.

Maybe Craglorn PUG's are still a thing. However, no less than three of my regular progress groups imploded. And the raid guild that used to have 6 and more progress groups now has ONE left.

Soarora

Not going to watch the video but to comment on “no open runs, only carries”. That did happen. I saw it in several big guilds, open run dungeons and trials died. But it’s not “heavy attack builds revitalize trial culture and without it everyone would have to pay for carries”. Endgamers got tired of how zos is treating us and left, leaving just people in cores (closed runs) and carry services. Things are still not as active as they used to be but people have come back for one reason or another. It’s got less to do with more new people in endgame and more to do with people just coming back who had left.

KiltMaster

Wasn't this video like months ago before any of the necrom announcements?