Replace Mara’s Balm

StarOfElyon

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I don’t care about the set.

I’m not going to debate if it was OP or not.

I’m so unhappy that, you- ZOS, have absolutely destroyed yet another set many people have sitting golded-out… And now it’s yet another useless set that will never see an efficient use case again.

Just change the set entirely on the 5pc or something. Have mercy someone on a non purge class actually have access to an efficient purge (you could have just removed the hot/burst/ or all heals).

We knew it was a problem from day one. Out the gate people said, this should not go live. The inevitable happened, multiple times (far too late for my liking), and no one should be surprised. Don't even get involved with something that you know won't last. That's the lesson.

Wuuffyy

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I don’t care about the set.

I’m not going to debate if it was OP or not.

I’m so unhappy that, you- ZOS, have absolutely destroyed yet another set many people have sitting golded-out… And now it’s yet another useless set that will never see an efficient use case again.

Just change the set entirely on the 5pc or something. Have mercy someone on a non purge class actually have access to an efficient purge (you could have just removed the hot/burst/ or all heals).

We knew it was a problem from day one. Out the gate people said, this should not go live. The inevitable happened, multiple times (far too late for my liking), and no one should be surprised. Don't even get involved with something that you know won't last. That's the lesson.

The lesson here is that there are 100s of sets a state just like this one (although without all the cheese healing, this set served a very important purpose). That are like this bogging down the server calculations, for no reason, what so ever.

Just because I “shouldn’t hang on it” is your reasoning for not considering this as meaningful game-wise doesn’t make it any more *okay*.

nublife01

Vaqual wrote: »

YEP

nublife01

bachpain wrote: »

I love the tears over the "tank meta" during a time when the PVP main campaigns have been hopping because well, everyone is willing to play PVP because there is a survivability factor. Wait until all the sweats have is each other to fight and the tears will be rolling again how Zos dropped the ball and doesn't care about PVP. It will be back to low pop prime time on all campaigns. It has been mentioned, people want to feel like they will survive. You aren't changing human nature.

hi 1vx imperial city hakeijo farmer have played since beta and have known a lot of the 1vx "sweats" as most come to imperial city to gold farm for new metas. i have also been world ranked in other mmo pvp games such as world of warcraft and also world ranked in the class/ability team based shooter apex legends. from my experience i can tell you with high levels of confidence this is the exact opposite of what is happening. pvp isnt hopping it is dying and any current spike in pvp player poppulation is probably more of a death howl than anything else. ill explain why so that you can learn something new today.

most of the high skill curve sweats have actually quit the game probably for good at this point because tank meta has absolutely decimated any skill curve in this game destroyed any capability to 1vx against any players who can follow a youtube gearing guide.

asmongold has a good video on this but anyways. when a pvp game or pvp side of a game starts to die it is usually caused by the game devs listening to casual players who do not understand the pvp mechanics at all and instead of wanting to learn them to get better go on the forums to complain. they have no will to get better and thus no will to actually play pvp. this causes the skill curve to be flattened as devs buff the capabilities of players with 0 time investment in learning the game usually in terms of survivability and classes completely losing their uniqueness. with 0 skill curve and 0 class uniqueness there becomes little reason to invest time into pvp because you dont improve at all there is no fight style variety to try out and the game becomes boring which is respective of the people who asked for these changes as they had very little will to actually invest time into pvp anyways.

initially this may cause a spike in casual players wanting to play pvp because of the lack of time investment required to be good at it. but once the game has flattened its skill curve and class/gamplay variety squashed into one boring centric meta, it becomes boring enough players start to quit playing it. it starts with the mass exodus of all of the top high skill curve players first (something that has already happened). then all the casual players start to leave soon after as they are casual and havent had the desire to invest more time into the game and there is no reward for doing so regardless. there are no more kristopher or grimmhallow 1vx videos for them to watch in aw and hope one day they can be that good if they play enough. all there is is boring high survival meta that is fun momentarily because one can be decent at it instantly but soon gets stale.

this happened to wow and why wow pvp died. with wow however it was not as much the skill curve being flattened but more so the destruction of class uniqueness and meta variety. its happening to eso as well but not just in terms of meta variety but also heavily in skill curve arch and with the introduction of new games coming out soon eso at least in the pvp side of things will further and further go down hill.

StarOfElyon

Wuuffyy wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I don’t care about the set.

I’m not going to debate if it was OP or not.

I’m so unhappy that, you- ZOS, have absolutely destroyed yet another set many people have sitting golded-out… And now it’s yet another useless set that will never see an efficient use case again.

Just change the set entirely on the 5pc or something. Have mercy someone on a non purge class actually have access to an efficient purge (you could have just removed the hot/burst/ or all heals).

We knew it was a problem from day one. Out the gate people said, this should not go live. The inevitable happened, multiple times (far too late for my liking), and no one should be surprised. Don't even get involved with something that you know won't last. That's the lesson.

The lesson here is that there are 100s of sets a state just like this one (although without all the cheese healing, this set served a very important purpose). That are like this bogging down the server calculations, for no reason, what so ever.

Just because I “shouldn’t hang on it” is your reasoning for not considering this as meaningful game-wise doesn’t make it any more *okay*.

As a person who has never used Maras, I can't imagine what purpose it served.

IZZEFlameLash

I foresee Mara's 2.0 coming in the next cycle because now, people will complain about 'unable to survive the burst/dot damage because I get deleted in seconds despite all the resistances'. This nerf will not resolve so called 'tank meta'. These sorts of solution never will. Because its counterpart, 'high damage meta' is now going to take the center stage.

Luth7

Fixing core or even class specific balance with items was and will always be a stupid idea. Those sledgehammer approaches tend to cause lots of new problems in general.

kalunte

as far as i'm concerned they should also fix mara's proc to apply only when dots are cleanse and not reapplied.

replace it or not, when you compare a skill efficiency with a proc efficiency you'll admit that this defensive set outblast any defensive skill in game by miles.

danthemann5

Mara's isn't the problem.

Neither is Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Rush of Agony, Snek in the Stars, DKs, Sorcs, NBs, deer, or bridges.

These are the symptoms.

The problem is neglect.

The problem is disengagement.

The problem is lack of direction and lack of vision.

The problem is lack of dedication.

Unless and until the development team commits the time and resources to identifying, understanding, and addressing the issues in PvP and developing a quality PvP experience, there will always be a Mara's Balm.

Getting blown away in 11 ten-thousandths of a second with no recourse or counter-play isn't fun.

Watching unkillable fools run circles around resource towers isn't fun.

Getting continuously run over by groups of 12 unkillable fools isn't fun.

30 people attacking one unkillable fool isn't fun.

Pushing buttons with no results isn't fun.

PvP is broken on a fundamental level, and it needs time, resources, dedication, and competence to fix. Even if Mara's gets nerfed to complete worthlessness, in two patches there will be something even more OP, as surly as the sun rises in the east every day. Because the fundamental problems remain unaddressed.

bachpain

hi 1vx imperial city hakeijo farmer have played since beta and have known a lot of the 1vx "sweats" as most come to imperial city to gold farm for new metas. i have also been world ranked in other mmo pvp games such as world of warcraft and also world ranked in the class/ability team based shooter apex legends. from my experience i can tell you with high levels of confidence this is the exact opposite of what is happening. pvp isnt hopping it is dying and any current spike in pvp player poppulation is probably more of a death howl than anything else. ill explain why so that you can learn something new today.

most of the high skill curve sweats have actually quit the game probably for good at this point because tank meta has absolutely decimated any skill curve in this game destroyed any capability to 1vx against any players who can follow a youtube gearing guide.

asmongold has a good video on this but anyways. when a pvp game or pvp side of a game starts to die it is usually caused by the game devs listening to casual players who do not understand the pvp mechanics at all and instead of wanting to learn them to get better go on the forums to complain. they have no will to get better and thus no will to actually play pvp. this causes the skill curve to be flattened as devs buff the capabilities of players with 0 time investment in learning the game usually in terms of survivability and classes completely losing their uniqueness. with 0 skill curve and 0 class uniqueness there becomes little reason to invest time into pvp because you dont improve at all there is no fight style variety to try out and the game becomes boring which is respective of the people who asked for these changes as they had very little will to actually invest time into pvp anyways.

initially this may cause a spike in casual players wanting to play pvp because of the lack of time investment required to be good at it. but once the game has flattened its skill curve and class/gamplay variety squashed into one boring centric meta, it becomes boring enough players start to quit playing it. it starts with the mass exodus of all of the top high skill curve players first (something that has already happened). then all the casual players start to leave soon after as they are casual and havent had the desire to invest more time into the game and there is no reward for doing so regardless. there are no more kristopher or grimmhallow 1vx videos for them to watch in aw and hope one day they can be that good if they play enough. all there is is boring high survival meta that is fun momentarily because one can be decent at it instantly but soon gets stale.

this happened to wow and why wow pvp died. with wow however it was not as much the skill curve being flattened but more so the destruction of class uniqueness and meta variety. its happening to eso as well but not just in terms of meta variety but also heavily in skill curve arch and with the introduction of new games coming out soon eso at least in the pvp side of things will further and further go down hill.

I don't disagree with you about the need for people to stick in there and learn, or the game being streamlined in a bad way. But with any game that has been around for years you need new blood. And with ESO as opposed to any other MMO out there there is nothing in game that helps you to understand said learning curve other than surviving for more than 15 seconds in an engagement to learn from it. I think there are two sides to the coin that people might be overlooking because of their desired playstyle. We will have to wait and see how it pans out. Just because one playstyle isn't there like it once was (by the way there are plenty that still are very successful 1vXing in the tank meta) doesn't mean that PVP overall is dying.

I 100% agree with you that it is boring to have one variety of play that is in use almost exclusively. I personally would love to see healing nerfed across the board in PVP from all sources and cross healing stacks limited heavily. I think the beginning of the end was the hybridization that made it possible to stack everything full send into offense and it super powerful in heals as well. Sure that was way more "fun" for knowledgeable individuals, but overall bad for PVP. Since then it has devolved to this tank meta. So we aren't in disagreement with a whole lot, other than where this goes from here? Will the new blood stick in there now and continue making new builds as they learn? I hope so. I don't know though, mats are so expensive on PC it is stupid.

I do find it laughable though that the thing that drives the top tier players away is the inability to 1vX newbs because they found some guidance. I would think the judge of one's ability and skill would be against well geared players not ones running around without any knowledge of what the game has available. It seems to me that the inability to adapt and continue to be successful is another lack of desire to grow and improve just like is lacking on the lower tiers of skill levels.