A whole lot of crux and nothing to do with it. (How I would change the Arcanist)

Narvuntien

So when I first heard about the Arcanists gameplay reveal I thought I'd be consistently producing and using Crux but it turns out that for a PVE damage dealer there just isn't anything to use crux on.

While there are some cost-reduction mechanics in the tank and healer lines of the arcanists that can use up the crux there is exactly one way to burn crux and it's the beam. (edit two ways the tentacular dread morph). The beam doesn't allow for the usual Dps play style, it might be cool but it's not really effective enough to miss out on light attacks.
Runeblades is actually a really nice spam-able ability and I like using it but that just means I generate a whole lot of crux.

Abyssal Impact is a stamina ability that as a melee forward ability makes sense. This ability should gain the ability to use crux to increase the damage from abyssal ink the way that the tentacular dread morph currently does. The Tentacular dread morph is mostly useless in PVE as it is a short-ranged ability that isn't going to be used by ranged mages. It should be changed to a ranged ink orb ability with 28-meter range.

The next thing that I feel like is desperately needed is some way to burn crux for resources.
Right now in the tank line there are two abilities that are very similar Rune Spiteward and the Runegaurd we have two abilities focused on keeping you alive at low health one consumes crux for health and the other gives major protection. I don't think we need both abilities you can combine these two together.
There is a mirror of this in the healing line where we have both the healing spell Runemend and Chakram shields.
The class doesn't need both shields and heals and two abilities that will save you when low on health. Healers and tanks only have so many slots to put skills and while they are often useful in PVP situations it is better to have a PVE and a PVP morph of similar abilities. The designers need to decide are arcanists a heal class or a shield class.

I need more abilities in the tank and healer lines that I will slot as a PVE dps. I want to turn my crux into something useful, even if all it is is more resources and I need some abilities I can slot just for passives, especially for Mag dps. I want something similar to what we see for Templars with repentance and its passive regen and Sorcs and their max resource passives or Nercos and their ultimate gain and skeleton damage.

Pelanora

Shields AND heals???? And all the sorcs go.......WTF!

Tannus15

imo every skill should have a builder and a spender morph and the spender should do more than just "more damage" or whatever, it should change the skill like a frag proc or flame lash.

instead we have "nothing matter apart from 3 runes and beam". as much beam as possible. more beam please. whatever you do, as long as it's more beam, it's good.

Narvuntien

Pelanora wrote: »

Shields AND heals???? And all the sorcs go.......WTF!

The heal it tied to sorcs other theme pets, but sorcs are a shield class, arcanists should probably be a shield class with bonus heal beam.

Caligamy_ESO

And here I was running it through Maelstrom, Skyreach, DSA, etc.. and feeling like I needed to generate more crux because I was tempted to burn it faster than I was generating it.

Narvuntien

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

And here I was running it through Maelstrom, Skyreach, DSA, etc.. and feeling like I needed to generate more crux because I was tempted to burn it faster than I was generating it.

Were you doing SR and DSA Solo? I was talking about the group context with a healer I didn't need to use crux for damage or resources.

Caligamy_ESO

Yeah pretty much all solo, even did a Herald's Seeker at lvl 26 or so, which was a pretty tough fight that put a lot of pressure on my need for crux.

robpr

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

And here I was running it through Maelstrom, Skyreach, DSA, etc.. and feeling like I needed to generate more crux because I was tempted to burn it faster than I was generating it.

Use Cruxweaver Armor and that major sorcery skill, it will generate 2 almost instantly the moment you use the beam or spending tentacle as long as you take any damage.

Trejgon

@OP you missed fate carver - both morphs of that ability spends crux, and it is a staple of DPS arcanist builds I saw being used on PTS by prominent content creators.

Also I would not be dismissing abyssal impact morph so easilly from ranged builds - truth is in most of PvE content out there, even as a ranged character you will end up at this distance and closer alot of the time.

also.....

Narvuntien wrote: »

but it turns out that for a PVE damage dealer there just isn't anything to use crux on.

Narvuntien wrote: »

Were you doing SR and DSA Solo? I was talking about the group context with a healer I didn't need to use crux for damage or resources.

you need to make up your mind if you are talking about DD or healers, because as a DD you will definitelly need to use crux for damage, and possibly resources based on how specifically is your build laid out, and how it plays with sustain over longer fights.

Narvuntien

Trejgon wrote: »

@OP you missed fate carver - both morphs of that ability spends crux, and it is a staple of DPS arcanist builds I saw being used on PTS by prominent content creators.

Also I would not be dismissing abyssal impact morph so easilly from ranged builds - truth is in most of PvE content out there, even as a ranged character you will end up at this distance and closer alot of the time.

also.....

Narvuntien wrote: »

but it turns out that for a PVE damage dealer there just isn't anything to use crux on.

Narvuntien wrote: »

Were you doing SR and DSA Solo? I was talking about the group context with a healer I didn't need to use crux for damage or resources.

you need to make up your mind if you are talking about DD or healers, because as a DD you will definitelly need to use crux for damage, and possibly resources based on how specifically is your build laid out, and how it plays with sustain over longer fights.

Fatecarver prevents you from light attacking or using any other abilities I don't want to use it, when I could be spamming runeblades and light attacks for more damage. I also don't want to get closer than I need to just to do damage, that would mean I will have to be moving into danger every 20 seconds to use Tentacular dread. You stack 3 crux for extra crit and there is no ability to use them on and you can't use them to regain resources.


"With a healer" not "as a healer" so I don't need to use crux to heal myself, you misread me.

ADarklore

I've been reading a lot on the web about people not wanting to be "forced" into using Fatecarver for various reasons. However, it seems based on the devs conversations, that they basically designed the DPS side around Fatecarver... which goes against their "play as you want" philosophy. You can't have it both ways... play as you want and yet we're designing a class revolving around this one specific skill. That's not giving players the option to 'play as they want'.

I also think they tried to design this class to directly hinder Oakensoul and HA one-bar players. And by not adding a DPS healing skill, they're kind of forcing solo players to drop Oakensoul to use Pale Order once again. Again, not "play as you want" but "play as WE want you to play"... there IS a big difference.

Galeriano

ADarklore wrote: »

I've been reading a lot on the web about people not wanting to be "forced" into using Fatecarver for various reasons. However, it seems based on the devs conversations, that they basically designed the DPS side around Fatecarver... which goes against their "play as you want" philosophy. You can't have it both ways... play as you want and yet we're designing a class revolving around this one specific skill. That's not giving players the option to 'play as they want'.

I also think they tried to design this class to directly hinder Oakensoul and HA one-bar players. And by not adding a DPS healing skill, they're kind of forcing solo players to drop Oakensoul to use Pale Order once again. Again, not "play as you want" but "play as WE want you to play"... there IS a big difference.

As it is right now playing with and without fatecarver gives similar results.

Trejgon

Narvuntien wrote: »

Trejgon wrote: »

@OP you missed fate carver - both morphs of that ability spends crux, and it is a staple of DPS arcanist builds I saw being used on PTS by prominent content creators.

Also I would not be dismissing abyssal impact morph so easilly from ranged builds - truth is in most of PvE content out there, even as a ranged character you will end up at this distance and closer alot of the time.

also.....

Narvuntien wrote: »

but it turns out that for a PVE damage dealer there just isn't anything to use crux on.

Narvuntien wrote: »

Were you doing SR and DSA Solo? I was talking about the group context with a healer I didn't need to use crux for damage or resources.

you need to make up your mind if you are talking about DD or healers, because as a DD you will definitelly need to use crux for damage, and possibly resources based on how specifically is your build laid out, and how it plays with sustain over longer fights.

Fatecarver prevents you from light attacking or using any other abilities I don't want to use it, when I could be spamming runeblades and light attacks for more damage. I also don't want to get closer than I need to just to do damage, that would mean I will have to be moving into danger every 20 seconds to use Tentacular dread. You stack 3 crux for extra crit and there is no ability to use them on and you can't use them to regain resources.

You could not be spamming runeblades and light attacks for more damage, which is why it's a staple of PTS dps arcanists.

as for "not wanting to be moving into danger every 20 seconds" - I bet your healer in group content loves you staying behind them, and not conforming to traditional group positioning.

Narvuntien wrote: »

And by not adding a DPS healing skill, they're kind of forcing solo players to drop Oakensoul to use Pale Order once again.

And what exactly stops you from using heal skill from curative forms again? or the emergency heal from the soldier of apocrypha line? or just the CP node that heals you for 7% of your outgoing dps all the time? or vigor if you dislike all the previous options?

Narvuntien

Trejgon wrote: »

Fatecarver prevents you from light attacking or using any other abilities I don't want to use it, when I could be spamming runeblades and light attacks for more damage. I also don't want to get closer than I need to just to do damage, that would mean I will have to be moving into danger every 20 seconds to use Tentacular dread. You stack 3 crux for extra crit and there is no ability to use them on and you can't use them to regain resources.

You could not be spamming runeblades and light attacks for more damage, which is why it's a staple of PTS dps arcanists.

as for "not wanting to be moving into danger every 20 seconds" - I bet your healer in group content loves you staying behind them, and not conforming to traditional group positioning.

Evidence suggests that I can spam runeblades and light attacks for more damage, particularly if you add gear that cares about maintaining stacks.

Does ranged dps usually stand closer than 15 meters? I actually only play melee PVE dps. MagDK and Stam warden.

EramTheLiar

ADarklore wrote: »

I've been reading a lot on the web about people not wanting to be "forced" into using Fatecarver for various reasons. However, it seems based on the devs conversations, that they basically designed the DPS side around Fatecarver... which goes against their "play as you want" philosophy. You can't have it both ways... play as you want and yet we're designing a class revolving around this one specific skill. That's not giving players the option to 'play as they want'.

I also think they tried to design this class to directly hinder Oakensoul and HA one-bar players. And by not adding a DPS healing skill, they're kind of forcing solo players to drop Oakensoul to use Pale Order once again. Again, not "play as you want" but "play as WE want you to play"... there IS a big difference.

... I don't think whether or not arcanist as a class works well with oakensoul really effects how other classes work with oakensoul. The idea that arcanist may benefit more from different sets and mythics because it works differently is one I like. I'm not convinced it works differently *enough* for that actually to be true, but I don't see why it would be a problem.

i.e., if you have a one-bar sorcerer with oakensoul and it works great, why do you need a one-bar arcanist with oakensoul to work just as well? If I'm playing a stamina build I'm not going to complain because the Breton passive doesn't lower my DW skill costs.