Argoians. 3 years of neglect

lQrukl

Happy to see that devs remember that the race exists


But can argonians have attention they deserve?
2 years without any love

I remember my beginning as argonian templar 3 years ago. Yes, I had less damage then altmer or danmer, but I also had much more survivability.
Also, there were sources to compensate damage loss like Radiant Oppression that scaled from your current magica level. So "sustain" classes could close dps gap on execute.
Max hp for DD and healers was around 20k. So any potion was guaranteed to restore 25% health
After that times, Resourceful was nerfed for no reason (4,5k -> 3k), hp & mitigation was reworked. Which made Resourceful completely useless and uncompetitive passive (12% of new 26k avarange hp level without crit proc; yes, ability with 45s cooldown definitely needs proc chance)
All sustain classes were destroyed by hybridization: you don't need to care about your main resource, just take a few more skills that costs [green magica/blue stamina] and you will be fine!
Radiant Oppression were reworked from +120% for good sustain races to flat +20% for any.

I'm not too worried about the fact that the developers destroy my particular playstyle year after year
But it worries me that devs keep shrinking and shrinking the niches of races like argonian, offering absolutely nothing in return

While managers promoting ESO year after year as a game where you can play how you want, I'm less and less meet anyone in raids except elves (and maybe nord tanks)

Dragonlord573

Be Argonian
Be the most unique race in the lore, only comparable to Khajiit
Be forgotten or underutilized by both Bethesda and ZOS.

Alpheu5

But you can still beat anyone in a race from the waterfall to the bridge in Fungal Grotto.

Ratzkifal

Alpheu5 wrote: »

But you can still beat anyone in a race from the waterfall to the bridge in Fungal Grotto.

Truly the most competitive activity in the game. Argonians are OP! Nerfplz!

But in all honesty, we could use another rebalance of the races. I like the design of a lot of them in principle, but many of them simply fall behind even in common scenarios like dungeons and trials. Redguards and Bosmer come to mind. Nords are only good for tanking. Argonians are very niche but at least their healing is okay now, thanks to the higher base stats everyone now has.

I would say the races are only really balanced in PvP, because there sustain can easily translate to more damage or more survivability, but in PvE where sustain is plenty, half of the races are just not on the same level as the rest.

And then there are things like Bosmer being stealthy in the lore but having zero boni to stealth in their passives despite having them in the past. ZOS still has not acknowledged that. I don't care if there are item sets that can make me stealthy. I picked Bosmer so I wouldn't have to wear these sets!

Stx

Racial passives in general are LONG OVERDUE for balancing.

Maybe in another three years they will get around to it.

Auzsi

Same reason why Redguards and Bosmers are also neglected. They don't care. Race change tokens selling well so there are no reason to change anything. They nerfed their survivability and sustain because of pvp reasons, but forgot to compensate. The drinking passive is pretty bad but at least it's still there and somewhat unique. The healing done is way worse and much more underwhelming and the reason why the race is completely garbage for any competitive content. How 6% healing done supposed to compete against 252 spell and weapon damage? Makes no sense. And buffing it is not a solution. It needs to go.

Auzsi

Stx wrote: »

Racial passives in general are LONG OVERDUE for balancing.

Maybe in another three years they will get around to it.

And what we will achive with a rebalancing? Let's say they nerf dunmers and then they buff redguards significantly, maybe giving them crit chance or something. What will happen? End game players swap from dunmer to redguard. Dunmer enthusiasts will start to complane about racials and redguard fans will defend them by saying "race does not matter". So we are sitting in the same boat. The whole concept need to be redesigned. Well designed racails bring some unique race specific trait or effect which can have some impact on your build depends on your situation, brings some immersion to the game, but does not force your character into roles and playstyle. If they can't do that they needs to go.

Ironically resourceful is a pretty good passive in that regard. It's unique, can be useful, can impact your build, but does not force you into any playstyle. The problem is it's go against stuffs like sw damage, crit damage and healing, % cost reductions etc. and they also have another dead passive as i said above. Unflinching rage is another example for a good racial. All should be like them.

YandereGirlfriend

This and the nerf to the Nahvintaas set are the most puzzling changes of the patch.

It's 2023 - can we PLEASE get Argonians a +12% Healing Done buff so that they can actually surpass Orcs, Dunmer, and High Elves at their one specific niche, healing?!

EF321

Alpheu5 wrote: »

But you can still beat anyone in a race from the waterfall to the bridge in Fungal Grotto.

Sorcs can skip swimming altogether. I guess with bloodmist everyone can now?



Edit: I forgot, argonians can be sorcs too.

Auzsi

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This and the nerf to the Nahvintaas set are the most puzzling changes of the patch.

It's 2023 - can we PLEASE get Argonians a +12% Healing Done buff so that they can actually surpass Orcs, Dunmer, and High Elves at their one specific niche, healing?!

So healers are now forced to paly them even if they don't like them, and argoniasn are shoehorned to be healers even more for no reason. Great change. Definitely what we need. Switch it with dunmer's spell and weapon damage then you can buff it.

YandereGirlfriend

Auzsi wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This and the nerf to the Nahvintaas set are the most puzzling changes of the patch.

It's 2023 - can we PLEASE get Argonians a +12% Healing Done buff so that they can actually surpass Orcs, Dunmer, and High Elves at their one specific niche, healing?!

So healers are now forced to paly them even if they don't like them, and argoniasn are shoehorned to be healers even more for no reason. Great change. Definitely what we need. Switch it with dunmer's spell and weapon damage then you can buff it.

Do you enjoy currently being good at nothing as an Argonian?

Healing at least has precedent in the lore, much more so than a random Weapon/Spell Damage toss-in that several races already have.

Auzsi

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Auzsi wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This and the nerf to the Nahvintaas set are the most puzzling changes of the patch.

It's 2023 - can we PLEASE get Argonians a +12% Healing Done buff so that they can actually surpass Orcs, Dunmer, and High Elves at their one specific niche, healing?!

So healers are now forced to paly them even if they don't like them, and argoniasn are shoehorned to be healers even more for no reason. Great change. Definitely what we need. Switch it with dunmer's spell and weapon damage then you can buff it.

Do you enjoy currently being good at nothing as an Argonian?

Healing at least has precedent in the lore, much more so than a random Weapon/Spell Damage toss-in that several races already have.

Self healing does (histkin in skyrim) healing done and restoration focus does not. I want racial perks which does not force my character into roles, provide immersion, and make sense to be there.

I don't want a spell and weapon damage toss but this is the system we have so i want a stat which is universally useful. My vote goes for crit chance (makes more sense than healing done) but a spell and weapon damage toss is also fine at this point. With the armory system around it would be much better for everyone not to be forced into a single support role.