Regarding the PB nerfs for PVE

Blackbird_V · April 2023

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Guess all my PVE map clearing alts will be in need of switching sets if this goes live. Makes for a huge waste of golden jewelry, all because of one video but it is what it is. If it goes live I'll be looking for a replacement set for 5 alts, I will most likely just use deadly strike, but recommendations are always welcome. I may just start doing overland naked as it seems the nerf hammer will hit any descent build eventually, but damn this was a fun set for overland.

Edit to add: I will most likely just go back and use new moon acolyte. I would say deadly strike, but it too is a PvP set and they might just nuke it into the ground in PvE too. New moon acolyte is not only older, but a created set, so it is more or less safer for the long term.

Aegis Caller + Rushing Agony (Greatsword + stampede).

I'm not fan of this change, and made a few suggestions here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631692/please-revisit-the-plaguebreak-changes-some-suggestions#latest

About this mega overnerf, I can summarise it by quoting a ZoS employee: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing."

ApoAlaia · April 2023

Blackbird_V wrote: »

[Snippetysnip]
About this mega overnerf, I can summarise it by quoting a ZoS employee: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing."

I mean... they did delete one of the five vampire skills from PvE for 18 months in a reaction that someone more spicy than myself (but definitely not me, I am above taking such cheap jabs (oh did I mention jabs? silly me) at people) would describe as throwing all the toys out of the pram so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Vahndamme · April 2023

Since when are sets sourced from PvP not allowed in PvE? I mean PB can be strong in PvE on some stuff but often it's just fun running it in quick RND's etc. Nothing major. It seems like the no fun allowed hammer has come down again.

They should just cap it somewhat, make bosses 'immune' to it or take less dmg for the explosions. Honestly capping the damage seems best, it deals with both PvP and PvE issue.

Honestly I still don't know why they are not using Battle Spirit to make a lot of sets perform a tad different in PvP. This would make balancing so much easier. Now they working with crap like 'monsters only' etc. It's ridiculous.

Toxic_Hemlock · April 2023

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Guess all my PVE map clearing alts will be in need of switching sets if this goes live. Makes for a huge waste of golden jewelry, all because of one video but it is what it is. If it goes live I'll be looking for a replacement set for 5 alts, I will most likely just use deadly strike, but recommendations are always welcome. I may just start doing overland naked as it seems the nerf hammer will hit any descent build eventually, but damn this was a fun set for overland.

Edit to add: I will most likely just go back and use new moon acolyte. I would say deadly strike, but it too is a PvP set and they might just nuke it into the ground in PvE too. New moon acolyte is not only older, but a created set, so it is more or less safer for the long term.

Aegis Caller + Rushing Agony (Greatsword + stampede).

I'm not fan of this change, and made a few suggestions here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631692/please-revisit-the-plaguebreak-changes-some-suggestions#latest

About this mega overnerf, I can summarise it by quoting a ZoS employee: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing."

Thanks for the suggestion, I truly mean that, but I can't do the DLC dungeons and mostly just play overland and do my crafting writs. Most DLC dungeons have mechanics that kill my characters far too quickly. Sadly if it can't be done solo I just don't bother. Never completed an arena or trial even on normal either so those sets are out too. Plaguebreak was actually easier to get as it was sold on the market, so if I can not find a replacement crafted or overland set I will just use new moon again.

Edit to add: This change in PvE as stated was to nerf the <1% that could do amazing things according to the quote. My question is what about the 1% of us that truly suck but still want to have fun, we never catch a break!

Blackbird_V · April 2023

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Guess all my PVE map clearing alts will be in need of switching sets if this goes live. Makes for a huge waste of golden jewelry, all because of one video but it is what it is. If it goes live I'll be looking for a replacement set for 5 alts, I will most likely just use deadly strike, but recommendations are always welcome. I may just start doing overland naked as it seems the nerf hammer will hit any descent build eventually, but damn this was a fun set for overland.

Edit to add: I will most likely just go back and use new moon acolyte. I would say deadly strike, but it too is a PvP set and they might just nuke it into the ground in PvE too. New moon acolyte is not only older, but a created set, so it is more or less safer for the long term.

Aegis Caller + Rushing Agony (Greatsword + stampede).

I'm not fan of this change, and made a few suggestions here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631692/please-revisit-the-plaguebreak-changes-some-suggestions#latest

About this mega overnerf, I can summarise it by quoting a ZoS employee: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing."

Thanks for the suggestion, I truly mean that, but I can't do the DLC dungeons and mostly just play overland and do my crafting writs. Most DLC dungeons have mechanics that kill my characters far too quickly. Sadly if it can't be done solo I just don't bother. Never completed an arena or trial even on normal either so those sets are out too. Plaguebreak was actually easier to get as it was sold on the market, so if I can not find a replacement crafted or overland set I will just use new moon again.

New Moon? May I ask what class you are currently playing?

Jaraal · April 2023

Vahndamme wrote: »

Since when are sets sourced from PvP not allowed in PvE? I mean PB can be strong in PvE on some stuff but often it's just fun running it in quick RND's etc. Nothing major. It seems like the no fun allowed hammer has come down again.

They should just cap it somewhat, make bosses 'immune' to it or take less dmg for the explosions. Honestly capping the damage seems best, it deals with both PvP and PvE issue.

Honestly I still don't know why they are not using Battle Spirit to make a lot of sets perform a tad different in PvP. This would make balancing so much easier. Now they working with crap like 'monsters only' etc. It's ridiculous.

The simple solution would be to make anything with over 70k HP immune to the Plaguebreak effect. Since all Cyrodiil guards have 71k+ HP, and all PvE bosses are over that cap, it would limit the explosions to everything with lower HP.... which would include trash mobs and all players.

Yes, player pets would still be included in the damage... but why should those who choose to run pets get a free pass? Players (including myself) use pets as blockers specifically to take damage that I want to avoid. So there should still be some consequences for choosing that playstyle. Just like players who choose to stack resists are increasing their vulnerability to sets like Hrothgar's Chill, there should be some consequence for using pets as well.

Toxic_Hemlock · April 2023

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Guess all my PVE map clearing alts will be in need of switching sets if this goes live. Makes for a huge waste of golden jewelry, all because of one video but it is what it is. If it goes live I'll be looking for a replacement set for 5 alts, I will most likely just use deadly strike, but recommendations are always welcome. I may just start doing overland naked as it seems the nerf hammer will hit any descent build eventually, but damn this was a fun set for overland.

Edit to add: I will most likely just go back and use new moon acolyte. I would say deadly strike, but it too is a PvP set and they might just nuke it into the ground in PvE too. New moon acolyte is not only older, but a created set, so it is more or less safer for the long term.

Aegis Caller + Rushing Agony (Greatsword + stampede).

I'm not fan of this change, and made a few suggestions here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631692/please-revisit-the-plaguebreak-changes-some-suggestions#latest

About this mega overnerf, I can summarise it by quoting a ZoS employee: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing."

Thanks for the suggestion, I truly mean that, but I can't do the DLC dungeons and mostly just play overland and do my crafting writs. Most DLC dungeons have mechanics that kill my characters far too quickly. Sadly if it can't be done solo I just don't bother. Never completed an arena or trial even on normal either so those sets are out too. Plaguebreak was actually easier to get as it was sold on the market, so if I can not find a replacement crafted or overland set I will just use new moon again.

New Moon? May I ask what class you are currently playing?

I have all of them at this point, they started as crafting alts and when they reached 50 I started them on overland. I mostly deck all of them out in a 2-hander and use the same first 3 skills on all of them though (stampede, carve, executioner), my other 2 are just class skills and are random depending on class. I use oaken soul rings on all of them so no back bar. Generally my tactic is/was to just hit the lead target hard and hope he kills the rest of the trash with PB when he dies, made the game actually fun while it lasted.

valenwood_vegan · April 2023

Chiming in to add my two cents: this is really unfortunate and could be solved with a much less lazy and more thoroughly thought-out solution, like capping the damage.

PB has been around for A WHILE, it didn't suddenly become OP. Enough with the knee-jerk reactions to what some very elite players are able to achieve. Reign the set in if necessary, sure.

But stop taking fun ways to play away from regular players.

BahometZ · April 2023

@luchtt couldn't agree more with you, thought the video you did of vMoS was hilarious and cool.

But I am stunned that the devs think this is a good move. Basing set/combat changes on theory-crafted niche situations in old content that is balanced for damage from years ago is... I'm struggling to find polite words to describe how sad that thinking is.

If this goes through it'll be yet another disappointing example of how out of touch they are with the player-base. So many changes are reducing fun, choice, and out of the box thinking. If you get inventive, they squash that, if you find new ways of doing things, they stop that. Dev mentality is mid.

warm_blanket · April 2023

From a pvp pov PB should always apply to player spawned adds like pets or the engine guardian bot.

If any of these are cluttering around a player you want to hit with a single target ability the game will goof and redirect your hits to the adds instead of the player. Tab-targeting can't help either, it's more like tab-suggestion. The attack baiting that add spam provides should have some drawbacks, things like plaguebreak are a decent counter that should remain.

On the NPC side there's not much reason to disable PB either.

It's a neat trick to try to put PB on some of the roaming mobs in IC and baiting an opponent to stack with them. It's hard to pull off since PB only lasts 10s and you have to kite right under pressure from mobs on top of the players trying to nuke you, but it's fun to try. This doesn't work at all if the other players have any awareness, and just leaves you with extra aggro.

The PB status effect is more of a liability against players anyway, since it just heals them for free (god bless mara's). You're forced to do stuff like this to make the set viable against the average player, as everyone runs strong defensive sets + high HP pools.

If PB does end up restricted to players it'd be a good idea to increase the scaling % per enemy hit on the explosion to compensate.