horrid ball groups ruining pvp

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

1) If you're normal, shouldn't you just come and join us? But anyway, most players aren't in ballgroups by which I meant the average pvp player.
2) I am still playing in Decimation Elite. Still running groups but not as big as in the past. We were famous for our groups that coordinated very well. You call them zerg but ok so be it. We gave a place for every player and were just very good at recruiting. We also needed to play like that to counter the Banana Squad ballgroup. They were one of the first groups that developed this adverse effect in pvp.

Nowadays we are more focussing on our reputation and individual playstyles on Ravenwatch EU that still is the purest pvp zone. Would like to see an alliance lock there as well. To have more connection with our faction.

Even as a casual group, there is a lot you can do to counter ballgroups, especially if you coordinate between guilds as EP Ravenwatch does.

The sad reality is that people in casual groups tend to put out a minimal amount of healing and damage regardless of their group's composition. A group that runs better builds and does many more actions per minute will always win, no matter if it is a ballgroup or something else. Especially on Ravenwatch, where all of the usual carry sets (Snow-Treaders, Rush of Agony, etc.) do not work, guilds should be a lot more introspective in regard to what they can do better themselves before they call for nerfs of an entire playstyle.

We are aware of the sets that we should use and we also spent some time getting those. I agree that healing is half of the pvp success. But healers can survive best in ball groups. We have some healers but we are not such a group as we simply don't like that playstyle. We might be a casual group and I am not going to tell players what they should wear or what spell/skill they should use, because the group does not always have the same players or classes aboard. The game should also not demand too much planning time. It should be fun.

At the moment the coordination of EP Ravenwatch is not existing. Only a group of DC/AD players that are swapping alliances multiple times a day. And that is why I would like to see an alliance lock there. AD/DC mostly 2 bars and EP 1 bar after mayhem.

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

We are aware of the sets that we should use and we also spent some time getting those. I agree that healing is half of the pvp success. But healers can survive best in ball groups. We have some healers but we are not such a group as we simply don't like that playstyle. We might be a casual group and I am not going to tell players what they should wear or what spell/skill they should use, because the group does not always have the same players or classes aboard. The game should also not demand too much planning time. It should be fun.

At the moment the coordination of EP Ravenwatch is not existing. Only a group of DC/AD players that are swapping alliances multiple times a day. And that is why I would like to see an alliance lock there. AD/DC mostly 2 bars and EP 1 bar after mayhem.

It's not a question of playstyle, it's having the right sets, slotting the right skills and then just keeping all skills up. I have healed both ballgroups and casual groups such as your own and the difference is minimal. I don't intend to patronize, but if you want advice on how to set things up for top survivability I'd be happy to help.

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

We are aware of the sets that we should use and we also spent some time getting those. I agree that healing is half of the pvp success. But healers can survive best in ball groups. We have some healers but we are not such a group as we simply don't like that playstyle. We might be a casual group and I am not going to tell players what they should wear or what spell/skill they should use, because the group does not always have the same players or classes aboard. The game should also not demand too much planning time. It should be fun.

At the moment the coordination of EP Ravenwatch is not existing. Only a group of DC/AD players that are swapping alliances multiple times a day. And that is why I would like to see an alliance lock there. AD/DC mostly 2 bars and EP 1 bar after mayhem.

It's not a question of playstyle, it's having the right sets, slotting the right skills and then just keeping all skills up. I have healed both ballgroups and casual groups such as your own and the difference is minimal. I don't intend to patronize, but if you want advice on how to set things up for top survivability I'd be happy to help.

Lets have a time out.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Since the implementation of Armory to cyro there shouldn't really be any reason why someone can't have their 'Casual' build and a 'more coordinated' build saved and then just swap if you have enough players to make something.

Zabagad

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

No set will ever counter ball groups as if it's good they can just find a way to use the set themselves.

I do not agree and I think the thesis is wrong.

What are the differences between ball groups and "normal" groups like a trial-group?
1) They stack up to 12 instances of the same hot
2) They stick very close to each other

If a set (or even a skill like mag detonation) would adress these 2 facts, then there would be an easy set to counter ball groups - and ball groups only!

Example:
For every group member in 8m radius the set deals 1K damage per running hot on you.

So a set/skill like this would hit the player from the screenshot:

with 13K for each grouped player in a radius of 8m. So max instant - single target - direct damage could be up to 156K...

The same set/skill would hit a player in a "normal" composed group for much less - maybe 4 heals * 4 players =16K
Or a solo player is max hit by 2-3K (even if there are ppl around)

Sure - 1K damage is just an easy example - the perfect value has to be determined. Maybe 300-400 in Cyro would be enough?
Sure - they can add a small time until it explode and/or maybe make it purgeable or blockable - it just depends on how much you (ZOS) want to make life harder for ball groups.
(You can count shields as hot too, if shield is the new ballgroup meta.)

But I'm pretty sure that a set/skill like that could counter ballgroups and the same set would not help them to wreck other groups/solos....

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

Lets have a time out.

A what now?

MLRPZ

Tigor wrote: »

The game should also not demand too much planning time. It should be fun.

That's the entire issue here, anyone is free to put as much time and effort into the game as he likes.
But don't ask for balance around your casual playstyle or time spent.

katorga

Like it or not, Ball Groups are how the game is meant to be played, and ZOS keeps reinforcing the fact. Arcanist is almost perfectly designed for ball groups. Even the sets designed to "counter" ball groups are in reality sets designed for ball groups.

(Snake in the Stars which would have been the death of these groups be making hot stacking untenable was promptly nerfed.)

Tigor

MLRPZ wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

The game should also not demand too much planning time. It should be fun.

That's the entire issue here, anyone is free to put as much time and effort into the game as he likes.
But don't ask for balance around your casual playstyle or time spent.

Apperently you have much time to spend.

Marcus684

katorga wrote: »

Like it or not, Ball Groups are how the game is meant to be played, and ZOS keeps reinforcing the fact. Arcanist is almost perfectly designed for ball groups. Even the sets designed to "counter" ball groups are in reality sets designed for ball groups.

(Snake in the Stars which would have been the death of these groups be making hot stacking untenable was promptly nerfed.)

It's looking more and more like that's the case. ZOS making the "Kill 40 Players" quest into "Kill 150 Players" is another indication that group play in Cyrodiil is want they intend, becuase it's gonna be pretty tough for solo players to finish this in a day.