Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
is eso stealing fanart?
-
HappyTheCamper✭✭✭✭✭It should also be noted that today is Easter Sunday, and tomorrow being Easter Monday (at least a pseudo-holiday) I doubt ZOS will immediately respond. Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday.
It’s pretty crappy though. Even if it was an accident it isn’t even the right character!Edited by HappyTheCamper on April 10, 2023 1:26AM4 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭[quomarkulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »Copyright on Elder Scrolls is owned by Zenimax/Bethesda.
Someone may create tattoos for personal use if this is tolerated by the copyright holders, but he does not have any copyright on them, as this is hold by the companies.
Sotha Sil is integral part of Elder Scrolls lore and Artwork, so he has no right to complain.
The violation imho was done by the self-proclaimed artist, who used the artwork and lore of Zenimax as inspiration for his tattoos.
Btw. I'm not whiteknighting Zenimax, in contrast lately write pretty critical and even play Fallout 76 more often than ESO meanwhile, still copyright is copyright, wheather you like it or not.
So what does this mean…? Does it mean that they can use any fan art and sell it without even telling the artist.
it means he can use ESO grafics in unmodified or modied form for personal use like a personal desktop wallpaper or as tattoo, but does not have any property rights on the material he uses. So he cannot complain if anyone uses it again, as the only owner is the copyright holder.
Afaik he even had to ask the copyright holder if he may use and alter the material, before he had created the tattoos, as they are not only visible for him personally, but displayed in public. So I think he violated the copyright. A company certainly will not make a big fuzz about it, as it counts as "peanuts", but if he starts to suddenly claim intellectual propety on this copyrighted material, it might become a case for the lawyers.
So all fan artists work can be used and sold without them knowing……I see. Thankyou for that information.
yep. I was active several year in development of Puppy-Linux, an Open-Source operating system. Linux is a community-developed system without copyright, instead using more free licenses. Reason was, that developing for Windows would have resulted in losing work to others, the copyright holders, as software always re-uses some others people work.
For artists this means, they should avoid to use copyrighted material as base for their artwork. There have been several heavy battles concerning Mickey Mouse more than 1 or 2 decades ago, if I remember well. Disney is very strict in this regard.
An artist would be on the safer side, to use some common, "public" scenarios as a base, in the case of gods for example nordic mythiology with Thor and Odin (but not the cinema-adaptions of those).Edited by markulrich1966 on April 10, 2023 1:33AM3 -
Liedeke✭✭✭I'm pretty sure it's not that black and white and companies cannot just use the art of fans for profit like that. And if they are allowed to do so legally at least have the decency to just contact the artist and ask them, that would be the bare minimum, public image is a big one here as well. The artist themself said they just wanted to be asked and they would have been okay with it.
Also, the artist never stated they used it as a tattoo design (a for profit thing if not for personal use), they just posted it as non-profit fanart. I believe it would be a different story if the artist made money off it, which they didn't.
ZOS is in the wrong here one way or another, whether it's legally or morally or both, and they should make it right.Edited by Liedeke on April 10, 2023 1:34AM18 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It should be interesting to see how their lawyers respond. Fair bet that the art in question will be considered a derivative work based on copyrights related to Elder Scrolls, which does grant certain rights to the original copyright owner. The question I have is whether it is deliberate or accidental and what the lawyers are going to come up with as a response.2 -
Animar111✭✭✭✭It should be interesting to see how their lawyers respond. Fair bet that the art in question will be considered a derivative work based on copyrights related to Elder Scrolls, which does grant certain rights to the original copyright owner. The question I have is whether it is deliberate or accidental and what the lawyers are going to come up with as a response.
Well hope it gets sorted out for all parties concerned.
Just find it amusing that this discussion is being posted on the Community Creations page of all pages.
Think the Community is going to think twice about posting any eso related art work creations in the future.Edited by Animar111 on April 10, 2023 2:02AM10 -
kumenit_taeynav✭✭✭✭Just find it amusing that this discussion is being posted on the Community Creations page of all pages.
Think the Community is going to think twice about posting any eso related art work creations in the future.
i posted this here bc i thought it would be relevant to creators that perhaps their art could be taken to use in eso without even asking permission let alone getting credit or even compensation for the work they put into what they do4 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm pretty sure it's not that black and white and companies cannot just use the art of fans for profit like that. And if they are allowed to do so legally at least have the decency to just contact the artist and ask them, that would be the bare minimum, public image is a big one here as well. The artist themself said they just wanted to be asked and they would have been okay with it.
Also, the artist never stated they used it as a tattoo design (a for profit thing if not for personal use), they just posted it as non-profit fanart. I believe it would be a different story if the artist made money off it, which they didn't.
ZOS is in the wrong here one way or another, whether it's legally or morally or both, and they should make it right.
Agree Zos is wrong here in some way for sure but I’m not sure legally they’ve probably done anything wrong. But that 100% doesn’t make them right looking at the big picture
Whilst owning the IP the fan artist can freely make art for personal use without issue. My understanding (and limited at best for copyright and IP) is that zos own the copyright and can use it without the need for permission or payment to the artist because the artist never owns the right to the images anyways. Mainly due to the fact that copyright law is heavily weighted to the owner and pretty vague when it comes to fan art given its a relatively new area.
Ultimately the artist can create the art and share it online to showcase their work and talents but can never legally profit from it unless commissioned by the IP owner. So technically the IP owner can take what they’ve seen publicly and use it.
That being said it’s pretty crap thing to do to your community and to not even give credit is shocking.
Zos had 3 options really, 1 is to do what they’ve done which creates a bad feeling in the community and is just unnecessary really.
2nd would be to use it and give credit to the artist but no payment. This would be the ideal for me as the artist gets exposure which can help with their career if that’s where they are going and zos get some cool new ideas
3rd would be deciding to pay the artist to use which seems unlikely and probably sets bad precedents.
Fan art in this genre should be encouraged and celebrated and shows positive links between the developers and community but this just creates a real bad taste in the mouth and is just unnecessary really.Edited by Parrot1986 on April 10, 2023 2:53AM7 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It should be interesting to see how their lawyers respond. Fair bet that the art in question will be considered a derivative work based on copyrights related to Elder Scrolls, which does grant certain rights to the original copyright owner. The question I have is whether it is deliberate or accidental and what the lawyers are going to come up with as a response.
I would pay them off and make a non-disclosure agreement. Things like this happen0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Parrot1986 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it's not that black and white and companies cannot just use the art of fans for profit like that. And if they are allowed to do so legally at least have the decency to just contact the artist and ask them, that would be the bare minimum, public image is a big one here as well. The artist themself said they just wanted to be asked and they would have been okay with it.
Also, the artist never stated they used it as a tattoo design (a for profit thing if not for personal use), they just posted it as non-profit fanart. I believe it would be a different story if the artist made money off it, which they didn't.
ZOS is in the wrong here one way or another, whether it's legally or morally or both, and they should make it right.
Agree Zos is wrong here in some way for sure but I’m not sure legally they’ve probably done anything wrong. But that 100% doesn’t make them right looking at the big picture
Whilst owning the IP the fan artist can freely make art for personal use without issue. My understanding (and limited at best for copyright and IP) is that zos own the copyright and can use it without the need for permission or payment to the artist because the artist never owns the right to the images anyways. Mainly due to the fact that copyright law is heavily weighted to the owner and pretty vague when it comes to fan art given its a relatively new area.
Ultimately the artist can create the art and share it online to showcase their work and talents but can never legally profit from it unless commissioned by the IP owner. So technically the IP owner can take what they’ve seen publicly and use it.
That being said it’s pretty crap thing to do to your community and to not even give credit is shocking.
Zos had 3 options really, 1 is to do what they’ve done which creates a bad feeling in the community and is just unnecessary really.
2nd would be to use it and give credit to the artist but no payment. This would be the ideal for me as the artist gets exposure which can help with their career if that’s where they are going and zos get some cool new ideas
3rd would be deciding to pay the artist to use which seems unlikely and probably sets bad precedents.
Fan art in this genre should be encouraged and celebrated and shows positive links between the developers and community but this just creates a real bad taste in the mouth and is just unnecessary really.
Can't steal someone's work and make it your own or Disney would have a field day.Edited by FeedbackOnly on April 10, 2023 2:56AM10 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kumenit_taeynav wrote: »Just find it amusing that this discussion is being posted on the Community Creations page of all pages.
Think the Community is going to think twice about posting any eso related art work creations in the future.
i posted this here bc i thought it would be relevant to creators that perhaps their art could be taken to use in eso without even asking permission let alone getting credit or even compensation for the work they put into what they do
Nobody will see it unless it's in general section5 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It should be interesting to see how their lawyers respond. Fair bet that the art in question will be considered a derivative work based on copyrights related to Elder Scrolls, which does grant certain rights to the original copyright owner. The question I have is whether it is deliberate or accidental and what the lawyers are going to come up with as a response.
Check out comparisons, there is no doubt it's a copy and paste Job2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HappyTheCamper wrote: »It should also be noted that today is Easter Sunday, and tomorrow being Easter Monday (at least a pseudo-holiday) I doubt ZOS will immediately respond. Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday.
It’s pretty crappy though. Even if it was an accident it isn’t even the right character!
I doubt Zenimax will ever respond here. Their inside council would properly recommend silence if this becomes a legal issue if the artist is not ok with this and may seek protection.
1 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being soldEdited by FeedbackOnly on April 10, 2023 3:26AM7 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There's a sub reddit for professional lawyers giving legal advice. The case was shared there.
It's illegal according to those lawyers.
P.S Truly feel for zos but just make this right without hassleEdited by FeedbackOnly on April 10, 2023 3:41AM8 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
I’m pretty certain the artist cannot protect their work when it comes to fan art. Ultimately they are creating art based on images and characters already protected by zos so anything they really don’t have many rights when it comes to what happens, especially if they post it online.
If they were to create the tattoo patterns and it was totally separate to any eso character then I’m sure they’d have a legitimate grievance but the fact used eso characters leaves them with no rights.
That being said zos is still wrong to not give credit and just take it and use it regardless.3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.Parrot1986 wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
I’m pretty certain the artist cannot protect their work when it comes to fan art. Ultimately they are creating art based on images and characters already protected by zos so anything they really don’t have many rights when it comes to what happens, especially if they post it online.
If they were to create the tattoo patterns and it was totally separate to any eso character then I’m sure they’d have a legitimate grievance but the fact used eso characters leaves them with no rights.
That being said zos is still wrong to not give credit and just take it and use it regardless.
And this could be the issue. Fan art can be considered copyright infringement unless it is considered fair use of the work. As such copyright protection of fan art is not as clear as completely original works.
of course, few if any who have commented in this thread are attorneys. I know I certainly am not one.
Oh, and I agree that Zenimax is in the wrong for not giving them credit or at least saying something to the artist.
Edited by Amottica on April 10, 2023 3:43AM0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.
It's on tumblr. It's a very obvious case in eyes of people. Zos will lose reputation if they do wrong and that's just not worth it right next to chapter release.
Ask yourself why is zos selling alamaxima tattoo with the picture of sotha on it...
[snip]
[edited for off-topic post]Edited by ZOS_Icy on April 14, 2023 11:34AM1 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
Pretty sure that is not correct. You don't need to be selling the derivative work in order to be hit with a Cease and Desist. In this case, because the artists creation is admittedly based on Elder Scrolls, his work is not his own.
Fan art is a kind of Grey area that most companies welcome as a constant source of exposure for their IP and a sign of how much people love the original work.
But there are some unwritten rules in using this kind of fan art. Rules like you should always credit the work others do. ZoS may not have to legally pay anything to the guy, but it's in bad form to not at least credit them.2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Parrot1986 wrote: »Zos had 3 options really, 1 is to do what they’ve done which creates a bad feeling in the community and is just unnecessary really.
2nd would be to use it and give credit to the artist but no payment. This would be the ideal for me as the artist gets exposure which can help with their career if that’s where they are going and zos get some cool new ideas
3rd would be deciding to pay the artist to use which seems unlikely and probably sets bad precedents.
4th option: do your own original work from scratch.5 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
Pretty sure that is not correct. You don't need to be selling the derivative work in order to be hit with a Cease and Desist. In this case, because the artists creation is admittedly based on Elder Scrolls, his work is not his own.
Fan art is a kind of Grey area that most companies welcome as a constant source of exposure for their IP and a sign of how much people love the original work.
But there are some unwritten rules in using this kind of fan art. Rules like you should always credit the work others do. ZoS may not have to legally pay anything to the guy, but it's in bad form to not at least credit them.
Nobody would have to hire own artist if you could do that.
It's illegal
Nobody will see on forums but it's not hidden on Reddit. There's like 3 posts on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/12gnv6u/not_cool_zos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I don't think I ever seen a post with so many likes in eso subreddit.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That they used Sotha Sil for an Almalexia themed tattoo is really upsetting to me lol.
Most likely from an outsourced artist that either thought it might be official art because it's so similar in style, or just didn't care. Hope this gets resolved.
I doubt it was malicious, but it shows how little care ZOS puts into their cash cow, the real takeaway here for me. =/Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.9 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭Parrot1986 wrote: »Zos had 3 options really, 1 is to do what they’ve done which creates a bad feeling in the community and is just unnecessary really.
2nd would be to use it and give credit to the artist but no payment. This would be the ideal for me as the artist gets exposure which can help with their career if that’s where they are going and zos get some cool new ideas
3rd would be deciding to pay the artist to use which seems unlikely and probably sets bad precedents.
4th option: do your own original work from scratch.
Aye true, I was meaning more how they handle wanting to use fan art in their game but doing it themselves avoids all this as well and means you get value for what they are surely paying people for.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.
It's on tumblr. It's a very obvious case in eyes of people. Zos will lose reputation if they do wrong and that's just not worth it right next to chapter release.
Ask yourself why is zos selling alamaxima tattoo with the picture of sotha on it...
[snip]
I do not need to ask myself anything.
As @Parrot1986 pointed out in the post just before my recent post you quoted, Zenimax may have used the work legally.
The artist specifically states their work is fan art and in the original post notes it is fan art of TES characters. As such they likely do not own the copyright on it and Zenimax may actually own it which may mean the artist is in breach of copyright (read the first link I provided) unless it is considered fair use. Since the artist specifically stated it was fan art, vs being a parody, the artist may not be protected.
If this is the case then it means, legally (and factually) that Zenimax did not steal anything.
Of course, I do think Zenimax should have given the artist credit. They highlight players from time to time and this would have been a great thing to do with this artist and would have been good PR for both them and Zenimax.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on April 14, 2023 11:41AM3 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That they used Sotha Sil for an Almalexia themed tattoo is really upsetting to me lol.
Most likely from an outsourced artist that either thought it might be official art because it's so similar in style, or just didn't care. Hope this gets resolved.
I doubt it was malicious, but it shows how little care ZOS puts into their cash cow, the real takeaway here for me. =/
That's how you know it was a bad copy.0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.
It's on tumblr. It's a very obvious case in eyes of people. Zos will lose reputation if they do wrong and that's just not worth it right next to chapter release.
Ask yourself why is zos selling alamaxima tattoo with the picture of sotha on it...
The zos artist used ai on the work.
Imagine the story of company used ai on work while stealing players work
Or
Company makes right with player
Who will players trust better especially new ones looking to join.
I do not need to ask myself anything.
As @Parrot1986 pointed out in the post just before my recent post you quoted, Zenimax may have used the work legally.
The artist specifically states their work is fan art and in the original post notes it is fan art of TES characters. As such they likely do not own the copyright on it and Zenimax may actually own it which may mean the artist is in breach of copyright (read the first link I provided) unless it is considered fair use. Since the artist specifically stated it was fan art, vs being a parody, the artist may not be protected.
If this is the case then it means, legally (and factually) that Zenimax did not steal anything.
Of course, I do think Zenimax should have given the artist credit. They highlight players from time to time and this would have been a great thing to do with this artist and would have been good PR for both them and Zenimax.
We call talk all we like zos clearly stole work of someone else. It's shameful to try to hide it
What next players make the quests too?
P.S talked to online professional lawyers it's illegal so you are incorrect . You can't steal others work just because they own ip. People jus aren't allowed to sell your IP.
You can say that's all hogwash too, but the people know the absolute truth here.Edited by FeedbackOnly on April 10, 2023 4:19AM4 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.
It's on tumblr. It's a very obvious case in eyes of people. Zos will lose reputation if they do wrong and that's just not worth it right next to chapter release.
Ask yourself why is zos selling alamaxima tattoo with the picture of sotha on it...
The zos artist used ai on the work.
Imagine the story of company used ai on work while stealing players work
Or
Company makes right with player
Who will players trust better especially new ones looking to join.
I do not need to ask myself anything.
As @Parrot1986 pointed out in the post just before my recent post you quoted, Zenimax may have used the work legally.
The artist specifically states their work is fan art and in the original post notes it is fan art of TES characters. As such they likely do not own the copyright on it and Zenimax may actually own it which may mean the artist is in breach of copyright (read the first link I provided) unless it is considered fair use. Since the artist specifically stated it was fan art, vs being a parody, the artist may not be protected.
If this is the case then it means, legally (and factually) that Zenimax did not steal anything.
Of course, I do think Zenimax should have given the artist credit. They highlight players from time to time and this would have been a great thing to do with this artist and would have been good PR for both them and Zenimax.
Agree, for me this is an example where there is a difference in what is right and what is legal.
I think everyone will agree zos has done bad by the artist and should’ve given credit for using it and celebrated it as a positive thing within the community which is essentially what fan art is for.
But I can’t see a scenario where the artist can take characters or any asset already protected by zos, used them to make their own art and then that gives them rights to those images to then be used in a commercial capacity.
0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I will be back tomorrow or sometime.
This case just makes me sad. It's not hard to see right or wrong here. Handle the case with grace and dignity of AAA game and top MMORPG3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »It is unlikely to be considered stealing as that is merely a style, not an actual design that is similar. I doubt that is the first time that style has ever been used to start with let alone copyrighted or even copyrightable by anyone.
They traced it at the very least, it's not just the style, you can lay the original over the tattoo and it matches up pretty much perfectly.
This is interesting and what the thread should have led off with to eliminate the solid quest I had before you presented this.
The issue becomes, has the artist taken steps to protect their work, or did their actions place their drawings into the public domain? The artist should seek council on this if that is their interest.
It's it's American artist then it's actually not public domain. Everyone in United states has their work protected at creation. They just can't sell it as they don't own ip.
I mean really why put such a ugly case in the public. Zos reputation is worth more then that. Do a minor payoff and win the public opinion on doing right thing.
Just imagine how this looks with new chapter coming out... just not worth it.
We all know the work is stolen and being sold
I would suspect the artist has not done anything that would have made the art public domain since it takes explicit actions, but none of us are privy to what has happened or what basis Zenimax has for using those images. According to the artist, yes, they have appropriated his work without permission so Zenimax may be profiting off of someone else's work illegally. However, there is a solid fact that this is only suspected at this moment as we are not judge or jury on this matter.
It's on tumblr. It's a very obvious case in eyes of people. Zos will lose reputation if they do wrong and that's just not worth it right next to chapter release.
Ask yourself why is zos selling alamaxima tattoo with the picture of sotha on it...
The zos artist used ai on the work.
Imagine the story of company used ai on work while stealing players work
Or
Company makes right with player
Who will players trust better especially new ones looking to join.
I do not need to ask myself anything.
As @Parrot1986 pointed out in the post just before my recent post you quoted, Zenimax may have used the work legally.
The artist specifically states their work is fan art and in the original post notes it is fan art of TES characters. As such they likely do not own the copyright on it and Zenimax may actually own it which may mean the artist is in breach of copyright (read the first link I provided) unless it is considered fair use. Since the artist specifically stated it was fan art, vs being a parody, the artist may not be protected.
If this is the case then it means, legally (and factually) that Zenimax did not steal anything.
Of course, I do think Zenimax should have given the artist credit. They highlight players from time to time and this would have been a great thing to do with this artist and would have been good PR for both them and Zenimax.
We call talk all we like zos clearly stole work of someone else. It's shameful to try to hide it
What next players make the quests too?
P.S talked to online professional lawyers it's illegal so you are incorrect . You can't steal others work just because they own ip. People jus aren't allowed to sell your IP.
You can say that's all hogwash too, but the people know the absolute truth here.
I had already agreed that Zenimax should have given that fan artist credit. I am only noting that it seems that Zenimax did not steal anything since they own those characters and that is the truth that would hold up in the court of facts.
1 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭well seems a solution might be approaching.
Copy&paste to avoid screenshot-uploads:
"littleouroboros
Hey, I'm a dev on ESO. I'm not on the player cosmetics team, but I'll definitely reach out to someone about this. Contact me if you'd like to provide an email and name I can refer to."
Source:
https://www.tumblr.com/relan-daevath/714132763526217728/hm-well-i-am-a-bit-shocked-19-jule-2020-i4