Vampirism

XomRhoK

Good old vampirism thread
My main problem are visuals and sounds of vampiure skills after revamp in 2020. I already wrote my opinion before so i'll just repost:

XomRhoK wrote: »

I dislike allmost all vampire skills after revamp. Only few morphs or unmorphed versions looks ok, but not more.
I will repost my old post, from the end of Greymoor PTS, with little additions:

"For me it's a disaster. I start playing ESO, because of the possibility to play as a vamprie and "realistic" visual style of the game and vampire skills in particular. I waited 3.5 years for some vampire content which will suit my playstyle, some sets, skins, outfits, full skill line. But now, after the revamp, i am not only didn't recieve nothing valuable for me, but i lost what i had. This mainly concerns visuals of skills and their functionality, not numbers.
- Eviscerate. Not very good visuals and sound. It looks more as if you are trying to paint a fence, not tear apart the enemy, and sound have absolutely no impact, it sounds like you always miss and hit the air, not render the flesh.
- Blood Frenzy. Feels absolutely not vampiric for me, despite "Ticks all the boxes of what its like to be a vampire" statement of Rich Lambert in trailer. This skill fit more to some shaman, blood mage, demon, berserker, but not to vampire. Looks okish, but hard to see in fight. Activation sound like a hollow pipe.
- Vampiric Drain. Halved damage, and so functionality of the skill. Awful new visuals, its not even looks like flow of the blood anymore, it looks like some sci-fi blaster, all starts to glows, target glows, player glows, main visuals glows, in dark environment it can even hurt your eyes. Sound also changed, now it include some unnecessary "boiled water" part.
- Mesmerize. Normal skill, nothing very interesting, just a stun, maybe needed one. Don't like purple-pink colors part in visuals this colors and particles fit more for a Barbie doll, not for a vampire.
- Mist Form. Elusive Mist pretty much the same, just some changes in color. Blood Mist, halved damage and heal jumping from useless to overpowered depending on situation. Visuals are too bright and too clearly defined circle on the ground, more like a puddle, not a mist.
- Blood Scion. Tall, bulky, glowing Xivkyn or demon with horns, not a vampire, his stance and movements are human-like and he don't use his claws. Absolutly zero vampiric feel in him, while Bloodknight NPC and Vampire Lord NPC looks more like it should be. Bats in swarn around Scion now looks like they made of foil, they reflect red light all the time. Also strange "broken vase" sound in the moment of transformation.

Overall i don't like new more cartoony and flashy style of visuals for vampire skills, it's not League of Legends, don't like abundance of purple-pink colors in visuals, some visuals just completely out of place.
All skills that i used before (Invigorating Drain, Baleful Mist, Devouring swarm) are gutted in damage or looks absolutly different, in a bad way. So after this revamp i don't want use any of vampire skill, because of aesthetic reasons.

Sad part for me is that numbers and even mechanics of skills can be changed, but visuals and sound stays here for a long time."

And you can read some of my ideas on how vampirism and vampire skills must looks and function in this thread, which i wrote back in May 2020. Pretty long read with alot of pictures, but might be interesting for ones who love vampire theme, and didn't read it already

For almost three years after revamp i rarely play ESO, i just lost connection with my character, it doesn't feel vampiric anymore. I do dailies some times or participate in events, but i almost stop questing. Several times i tried to revise my character, and several times i were close to start questing again, but ZOS manage to kill my new builds again and again with thier "optimization", let me remind you i mostly focused on vampiric feel and visuals of my character, not on playstyle or numbers, i like/accept visuals of only two vampire skills after revamp: unmorphed Mesmerize and both morphs of Mist Form. First they completly delete cool bite sound and blood splash animation from Blood Mist skill, i replaced it with Hemorrhaging and Unleashed Terror set, but they "optimized" this too and remove sound from Hemorrhaging. After that they just remove damage mitigation from Mist form in PvE... Also i found the way to use vampiric ultimate without looking at this ugly Scion, i used Mist Form right after ultimate transformation, with right timing it allows to avoid looking at Scion almost completely.

But now with rework of Mist form i will lose vampire ultimate. The only positive thing for my playstyle were hybridization.

I don't like visuals of new Blood Mist, with mist on top of that red puddle it looks acceptable, but without mist, just under the character model it looks bad. At least new Elusive mist looks ok and can be fun to play with.

logan68

Feljax wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Arcturus wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

what has to go is that stupid slash animation most vampires are magic and we all use staffs and slashing with a stupid staff is just well stupid. Honestly if we arent using the weapon was it even out. Why dont we have any of the abilities the vampires and blood fiends seem to have. Why do we have a 3 second distance drain. Why does are ultimate form take so much ultima and last a few seconds. Why are the downsides so much that it hardly makes sense to use vampire abilities. My normal abilities come with a heavy cost even at stage 1. At stage 4 i am magika starved pretty quickly with no health regeneration and my vamp abilities do not compete with my regular abilities. The hole skill line is fubarred

Maybe when our vamp form is activated have it last for a minute or so, have it use its only abilities based around melee attack with a separate bar

Get rid of the health regeneration penalty lore wise ourt health re generation should be higher to replicate quick regeneration.

Get rid of the penalty to ability use and instead increase the power of our abilities as we feed it should be enough to off set the nasty fire penalty (to make this far vampire should remove the dark elf fire immunity buffs)

Stage one no feeding. 5% reduction of damage all abilities, health regeneration lowered
Stage two one feeding lasts 4 hours no reduction to damage no lower health regeneration
Stage 3 lasts 2 hours 3% increase to damage all abilities increased health regeneration
Stage 4 last 30 minutes 5% increased to damage all abilities increased health regeneration.

we get stronger as we feed leading us to want to feed more and run the risk of discovery.

The numbers of course would have to be worked out but the point is in how feeding should work

and get rid of the ugly look vampires are scary because they are monsters that fit in.

Our slash attack should look like a claw attack.

Cloud should be a choice between normal movement with a teleport or fast movement( more then 30% around 50% not poison.

Add a teleport melee attack like the lowly blood fiends better yet make it look like mist form with damage and a short stun.

get rid of any ability that actually takes away our health to use that's just stupid. Modify it cost mana while active we are magic creatures after all.

most of all we should have an attack that returns health to us while fighting a passive or active doesnt matter. Again to simulate the rapid rengeration we are supposed to have.

Most of all turn off the skill line in pvp so the pvpers dont whine. Most of the nerfs come from trying to balance things for pvp so just dont. In pvp your whatever you are its a separate game anyway so it doesn't matter.

Just ideas from a person who as read or watched more vampire movies shows and books then i care to admit.(yes most end up being softcore *** but some like Byzantine are simply awesome)

[snip] Plus it would make it more of an rp function instead of a mini class like was intended.

[snip]

but had you made this comment first I would have agreed with you somewhat, i do want the vampire to be more of a class s and i think it would make the pc vamps more of what the npc vamps are, also i was handing out ideas i just want the vampire to play better and their be a good in game reason to play them. As it is right now they are purely RP not really playable.

[snip]

This simply is not true. You can easily make a viable, pure vampire at the moment. With the exapnsion and change to mist form, it will be even better. I have played vamp since beta, And this is the closest to a viable, not OP , class they have gotten to.

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Is vampirism any good? I know this is a rather vague question but I joined the game in November of 2021 and have been consistently told that vampirism was nerfed to uselessness. No builds I look up have it as part of the shtick, etc.

In 2021 vampires were nerfed to oblivion. Since then we have been buffed to light viability, but mostly are used on stealth based builds. With the changes coming to mist form, you can now have a viable brawler, as well as a stealth based vampire, plus numerous other builds.

It is important to mention you need to build into vampirisim now, and with the changes of mist form we will have more skills like the vampire npcs.

Necron is the perfect time to start a pure vamp build.

Thanks for your comment, some good stuff there. My take on things:

Vampires right now are completely useless and self-defeating in meaningful PvE (they're only usable for cheesing delves, thief dailies and not much else) and are only "good enough" to be optional for stealthy nightblades and for people wanting extra undeath tankiness which you get by killing health recovery and sustain.

About PvE, it can be said that it has it's exceptions thanks to the presence of stage 1 and HA builds. A little extra fire damage isn't much of a problem >usually< and sustain won't matter with HA weaving. Though it can also be said that these builds are self-defeating themselves as you limit yourself to one bar and do less dps, though to this I usually say that 90-100k dps isn't bad at all so *shrug* I definetly don't think that way about HA builds, I use one myself for convenience a lot of the time.

Anyway, I started playing in 2017, and my character was a vampire every single day up until the changes. After that and the nerf waves even I got rid of it, it was that bad.

So IMO something that is optional in PvP and worthless in PvE is definetly not in a good spot, specially considering most people don't even do much PvP at all (heavily encourage people to try it out though!). Asides from that vampirism also tends to attract RP people, which may make people think there's vamps doing serious content without issues when in reality it's RP players, who tend to be rather noob-ish (no disrespect intended, of course) and don't care much about stats since they can just be on their merry way doing random overland stuff. This of course doesn't apply to every RP player, I'm only saying most which means not all, and I'm saying this from my experience, not others. Maybe my "most" is only the "few" of another player's experience.

I also think some level of build adaptation to vampirism should be present, so I definetly agree on that.

Agreed on Necrom. It would be a good time to try a vamp again, it really does seem like they're slowly starting to get some well-deserved love. There's also some minor vampire involvement in the story it seems.

When they reach a point where they're optional for every class for PvE and PvP alike, they'll be in a good spot.

I do agree that the no healing debuff should 905840358430 percent be deactivated in pve. It really is a detriment to getting people to play them in big raids and what not.

I actually had the EXACT same experience with the revamp. I was playing stam sorc vamp. And I dont need to tell you how that didnt work afterwards.

I am really pleasantly surprised, like you, with the slow, logical changes.Now we need a looking at drain, because by dibella, please, just yeet that skill into oblivion.

[edited to remove quote]

were can i read about these changes I havent seen them

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/626521/pts-patch-notes-v8-3-0#latest

thank you they changed mist form i may like it

KingArthasMenethil

I don't think the Ultimate should be like Werewolf. Vampires are in alot more of control of themselves then werewolfs so they should be able to use Vampire abilties in their normal form instead of just the Pure-Blooded form.

Honestly it's Vampire skills not being good enough and sets like I think it was Vampire Lord (the set that's meant to be used by Vampires) also never being good enough for Vampire builds.

In regards to the textures Vampirism has always been noticeable it's just a gameplay thing and it was I think stage 4 (TES4 and pre-dawnguard TES5) where they were attack on sight so I don't mind it being noticeable it just needs to look alot more monstrous at Stage 4 compared to stage 1. Fangs could be nice as either a stage dependent thing or just always there on Vampire stages.

Vevvev

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pretend your fangs are sheathed when your not actively biting someone, just imagine having large fangs in your mouth 247 snd how uncomfortable that would be, as for the Scion form the implementation as a direct power buff would be better then being like the Werewolf form as that ensures your scion form is always stronger then your regular form.

If they made it like the Werewolf with it's own skills it might be really weak, imagine being limited to only your vampire abilities while transformed.

Elder Scrolls never had retractable fangs. ESO just took the easy route and made it a skin so they didn't have to do any work on implementing physical features to the characters

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Vevvev wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pretend your fangs are sheathed when your not actively biting someone, just imagine having large fangs in your mouth 247 snd how uncomfortable that would be, as for the Scion form the implementation as a direct power buff would be better then being like the Werewolf form as that ensures your scion form is always stronger then your regular form.

If they made it like the Werewolf with it's own skills it might be really weak, imagine being limited to only your vampire abilities while transformed.

Elder Scrolls never had retractable fangs. ESO just took the easy route and made it a skin so they didn't have to do any work on implementing physical features to the characters

Vampires are shape shifters, they can turn into Bats, Mist and many other things and yet you draw the line at fangs, we ARE NOT like any other Vampire in TES, the player character's Vampirism was bestowed upon them by the original Vampire through a ritual performed by her.

Vevvev

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pretend your fangs are sheathed when your not actively biting someone, just imagine having large fangs in your mouth 247 snd how uncomfortable that would be, as for the Scion form the implementation as a direct power buff would be better then being like the Werewolf form as that ensures your scion form is always stronger then your regular form.

If they made it like the Werewolf with it's own skills it might be really weak, imagine being limited to only your vampire abilities while transformed.

Elder Scrolls never had retractable fangs. ESO just took the easy route and made it a skin so they didn't have to do any work on implementing physical features to the characters

Vampires are shape shifters, they can turn into Bats, Mist and many other things and yet you draw the line at fangs, we ARE NOT like any other Vampire in TES, the player character's Vampirism was bestowed upon them by the original Vampire through a ritual performed by her.

I'm fully aware, but using ZOS's [snip] as an excuse to say "They don't exist" doesn't exactly sell your point. Especially when every single bloodline and vampire in ESO has the exact same problem with the vast majority with some notable exceptions like Rada al-Saran all using the same basic vampire skin.

[edited for bashing]