Everything Wrong with Harmony Developer Comment

TheMightyRevan

I quote: "This trait is currently far too niche for its intended use and is meant to be an enhancer to the Undaunted skill line and group play, but ironically is being utilized more by solo builds in PvP to instantly obliterate large groups. We’re shifting this trait over to be more recovery focused, which has much more use potential between PvE and PvP, rather than trying to continue making a value that doesn’t add more insta-gibbing potential but still has impact enough in PvE. " ( PTS Patch Notes v8.3.0 considering harmony changes)

-harmony was never niche, it is widely used in pvp, by many people
-solo builds were a smaller percentage of the usage, theres only one class/build, that can solo harmony and thats necro, but there is many more amazing synergies in other classes and hence harmony obviously is amazing for group play
-more recovery focused... why? sustain hasnt been an issue in pve or pvp in a long time, so its just pointless to change it to that
-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

So overall the changes to harmony are simply made on a wrong basis and its only gonna harm the build variety in cyrodiil and small groups using synergy setups are going to suffer.

VaranisArano

I prefer large group, organized PVP. That being said, I'm generally with you on this one. Large groups will always have an advantage due to numbers. Organized large groups have a huge advantage due to their size and organization.

So what's the problem with solo and small scale players using proper tactics to get the most from their synergies to instantly obliterate large groups? There's a lot of skill that goes into positioning yourself to pull off a big burst against a group. Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

I'd understand the nerf more if this were about ball groups using harmony bombs to farm zergs. Having a bomber in your group can be very potent. I'm not sure I understand the stated nerf to solo bombers. It's not like large, organized groups need opponents capable of killing us nerfed.


Possible answer: I realize that ZOS has historically frowned on builds that punch too far above their weight class or can 1vX too many players, like the pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. This does fit with past nerfs to powerful solo/1vX builds.

SeaGtGruff

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that ZOS is saying they're going to nerf/repurpose Harmony so it can't be exploited by solo PvP players, and you're admitting that it can be exploited in PvP by solo Necronancers, but you don't think it should be nerfed because it's also useful by other players in groups in the manner it was intended.

Supposing that ZOS decides not to nerf/repurpose Harmony after all, how would you propose they stop solo Necromancers from exploiting it in PvP?

Thecompton73

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that ZOS is saying they're going to nerf/repurpose Harmony so it can't be exploited by solo PvP players, and you're admitting that it can be exploited in PvP by solo Necronancers, but you don't think it should be nerfed because it's also useful by other players in groups in the manner it was intended.

Supposing that ZOS decides not to nerf/repurpose Harmony after all, how would you propose they stop solo Necromancers from exploiting it in PvP?

I propose it's not exploiting the harmony trait at all. The Necro harmony bombs only work so well and so often because of Dark Conversion. Get rid of that set and leave them their Harmony burst since it's about all they have going for them in PvP and without DC it would be infinitely harder to use it to blow up a big group. Even though Rush of Agony is similar it's still a lot more complicated for a solo player to gap close then drop boneyard and synergize it before everyone gets out since there is no stun or snare attached to it. If they throw down boneyard before gap closing that's a telegraph for what's coming next and all you have to do is dodgeroll out if it gets put below you. Not saying it couldn't be done but they'd have to earn it way more than when using DC, which pulls everyone to the dead middle of boneyard instantly on casting it and thus allows the synergy to be activated before the pull even completes.
And optimized groups use DC and Rush of Agony much more often and effectively to farm people than they do the harmony trait bomb. They simply don't need to use it, if 12 people run around putting out an average of just 3K AOE DPS each that all overlap that's 36K damage in one second! Pull a group in with DC or Rush of Agony and that 36K DPS will certainly kill at least one person and then VD and Plaguebreak get the rest.

Dr_Con

Harmony necros doing 20k+ damage with a single synergy is bad for pvp (45k+ if you wanna count nova), your wall of text can't fool me.

btw it's not just solo players abusing it... and try not to make it out to be like it's the equivalent of 4 people using dawnbreaker at the same time to insta kill people who aren't blocking, or ult stacking... the ability to use a synergy to delete people off the field is noxious, especially when the graveyard ability they're using can proc other sets like dark convergence or they can just spam cast the graveyard or use beckoning armor while standing in the graveyard to synergize on an unlucky victim. it's abused to the point of basically being an at-will aoe spectral arrow that always has 5 on the counter and is also an AOE that can't be dodged.

and to the above poster... DC and rush of agony are separate issues from this, and assuming 12 people are putting down a 3k dot in the same spot in pvp is laughable. I'm also not sure how you managed to throw plaguebreak and vicious death into your argument too, but you did.

Elendir2am

We (small-scale) used harmony bombing for taking down ball-groups. What,I believe, was good for PvP.
I think, that they want preserve harmony for small-scale in theirs posts.

jm42

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

there are tanks in this game btw

TechMaybeHic

It's odd to me as how hard it is to hit the synergies, that this is the route they went when it was just one thing a Necro could do.

The REALLY big hitters are DKs hitting synergies with harmony WHILE having corrosive up which made the synergy bypass armor for some reason as if that's direct damage, and gave them the tankiness to approach the clump.

The other was ball groups having enough healing and multiple forms of CC to do so

If you got killed by a solo Necro, it was a bomb and usually it was against stacks of squishy players procing the various on death explosions and the solo Necro would get a laugh but probably die and they just start rezing each other.

In fact; most of it has been the on death explosions that made it possible, and it still will be possible with the ability to pull, or even double and triple pull and clump you up with squishy friendlies from 30 meters away and bomb with vicious death, plague break, and occult overload.

Why target something so important to necros? Why are these pulls and death bombs seemingly a sacred cow to ZOS?

Thecompton73

Dr_Con wrote: »

Harmony necros doing 20k+ damage with a single synergy is bad for pvp (45k+ if you wanna count nova), your wall of text can't fool me.

btw it's not just solo players abusing it... and try not to make it out to be like it's the equivalent of 4 people using dawnbreaker at the same time to insta kill people who aren't blocking, or ult stacking... the ability to use a synergy to delete people off the field is noxious, especially when the graveyard ability they're using can proc other sets like dark convergence or they can just spam cast the graveyard or use beckoning armor while standing in the graveyard to synergize on an unlucky victim. it's abused to the point of basically being an at-will aoe spectral arrow that always has 5 on the counter and is also an AOE that can't be dodged.

and to the above poster... DC and rush of agony are separate issues from this, and assuming 12 people are putting down a 3k dot in the same spot in pvp is laughable. I'm also not sure how you managed to throw plaguebreak and vicious death into your argument too, but you did.

So your saying you think when a ball group pops their ultimates and charges they're not doing an average of 3Kdps each when they've buffed the full group with Powerful assault, Major and Minor Courage, Major and Minor Force, plus Major and Minor berserk? If anything is funny about that statement it's how low I went with the average, it's probably more like 6-8K dps each with all those buffs.
And yes any good ballgroup runs close enough together and has enough coordination that if you're in their path you're going to take AOE ultimate damage from the full group at the same time because most of it's overlapping. Like you do realize there are lots of regular and Ulti AOE's that have a fairly large radius AND travel with the caster right? Were you picturing twelve people all throwing caltrops in the same exact spot when you said that? Even stationary drops get coordinated so they land in roughly the same place, those groups are in chat, you think the group leader can't manage to call out a certain spot like the top of the stairs in a keep or count down to drop them on top of themselves?
I also like how you bring up the "always" ready graveyard synergy...that has a 20 second cooldown on use like every other synergy in the game.
Rush of agony isn't an issue as far as Boneyard is concerned but DC definitely is a relevant set interaction since it procs off the ability and pulls large groups from well out of Boneyards relatively small radius right into the smack dab center of it. You can't regularly kill a large group of people with the synergy if you can''t pull them all in and hit it while they don't have control of their characters. Take away DC and Necro Harmony bombers are just clunkier, easier to-see-coming versions of NB bombers. I mean really, you called out the interaction between Boneyard and DC yourself and then castigate me for doing the same and say it's a different issue? Really? When the trait and ability only became problematic years after they were added because ZOS consitently refuses to scrap a much more recently released and universally despised set that introduced a never before in game mechanical interaction, the AOE pull, I think it's a pretty applicable topic of discussion.
I've never seen or heard a single person complain about getting killed by a Necro who wasted a syngergy on them when they got pulled in by beckoning armor. I'm sure it's happened but how is that different from all the other ways a single player can kill another single player? Nobody should be able to kill anybody in PvP then? If they got rid of DC and reduced the total possible damage when using Harmony by 30% it would have dropped the damage down to Shalks or Seething stacked Whip level while still leaving the class playable and they could still combo it with the ulti and Blastbones for a kill.
Bringing up plaguebreak and vd was to further emphasize that coordinated groups have no need to waste spots on harmony, they have all the tools they need to run around keeps for hours killing people literally hundreds of times combined without ever dying themselves. But ZOS thinks it's solo Necro Harmony bombs that are ruining the playing experience for people? Now that's laughable.

TheMightyRevan

jm42 wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

there are tanks in this game btw

you do realise, that you already get sustain from synergies through the undaunted passives + harmony already gives you 20% more ressources and healing from synergies. thats all you need as a tank btw. its just a flat nerf. again

Also i didnt really try to go too in depth about it. i only made this thread to highlight the developer comment and show how everything in there is wrong, [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Necrotech_Master

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It's odd to me as how hard it is to hit the synergies, that this is the route they went when it was just one thing a Necro could do.

The REALLY big hitters are DKs hitting synergies with harmony WHILE having corrosive up which made the synergy bypass armor for some reason as if that's direct damage, and gave them the tankiness to approach the clump.

The other was ball groups having enough healing and multiple forms of CC to do so

If you got killed by a solo Necro, it was a bomb and usually it was against stacks of squishy players procing the various on death explosions and the solo Necro would get a laugh but probably die and they just start rezing each other.

In fact; most of it has been the on death explosions that made it possible, and it still will be possible with the ability to pull, or even double and triple pull and clump you up with squishy friendlies from 30 meters away and bomb with vicious death, plague break, and occult overload.

Why target something so important to necros? Why are these pulls and death bombs seemingly a sacred cow to ZOS?

the grave robber synergy is technically direct dmg, and if thats all corrosive armor requires thats why it works

being caught in these bombs, i dont usually get killed by grave robber, but i get killed by one of the explode on death procs (i see VD more than plague)

Kisakee

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-harmony was never niche, it is widely used in pvp, by many people

PvP on ESO is niche, change my mind.

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-more recovery focused... why? sustain hasnt been an issue in pve or pvp in a long time, so its just pointless to change it to that

Just talk for yourself.

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

Hello? Tanks?

Just because you don't like it and won't use it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else.

VaranisArano

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that ZOS is saying they're going to nerf/repurpose Harmony so it can't be exploited by solo PvP players, and you're admitting that it can be exploited in PvP by solo Necronancers, but you don't think it should be nerfed because it's also useful by other players in groups in the manner it was intended.

Supposing that ZOS decides not to nerf/repurpose Harmony after all, how would you propose they stop solo Necromancers from exploiting it in PvP?

In my case, it's that Harmony is used by ball groups to bomb zergs too, so I'd understand if that was why ZOS was nerfing it.

But I don't understand why ZOS stated they're nerfing it because of solo play when, IMO, solo players bombing large groups is a pretty healthy part of Cyrodiil's balance since large groups already have the advantage of numbers and organized groups have the advantage of organization. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm a ball group-style player who admires the bombers who pull it off successfully. They keep us on our toes and that's a good thing.

Now, ZOS seems to not want solo necro harmony bombers to be a thing (now, anyways, since its been a thing for a long time), but as someone who was far more likely to be on the receiving end of their harmony bombs, I personally don't see it as an exploit or even an unbalanced build in the wider context of Cyrodiil.

I could totally understand it if ZOS said they didn't like harmony bombing in general, because organized large and small scale groups do it to. We've had Vicious Death and Eye of the Storm nerfs for that reason in the past. But that's not who they pointed to.

Thecompton73

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that ZOS is saying they're going to nerf/repurpose Harmony so it can't be exploited by solo PvP players, and you're admitting that it can be exploited in PvP by solo Necronancers, but you don't think it should be nerfed because it's also useful by other players in groups in the manner it was intended.

Supposing that ZOS decides not to nerf/repurpose Harmony after all, how would you propose they stop solo Necromancers from exploiting it in PvP?

In my case, it's that Harmony is used by ball groups to bomb zergs too, so I'd understand if that was why ZOS was nerfing it.

But I don't understand why ZOS stated they're nerfing it because of solo play when, IMO, solo players bombing large groups is a pretty healthy part of Cyrodiil's balance since large groups already have the advantage of numbers and organized groups have the advantage of organization. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm a ball group-style player who admires the bombers who pull it off successfully. They keep us on our toes and that's a good thing.

Now, ZOS seems to not want solo necro harmony bombers to be a thing (now, anyways, since its been a thing for a long time), but as someone who was far more likely to be on the receiving end of their harmony bombs, I personally don't see it as an exploit or even an unbalanced build in the wider context of Cyrodiil.

I could totally understand it if ZOS said they didn't like harmony bombing in general, because organized large and small scale groups do it to. We've had Vicious Death and Eye of the Storm nerfs for that reason in the past. But that's not who they pointed to.

Is Harmony really used much for ballgroups? In my experience 99% of the time I've gotten killed by one it's because they all popped Ultimates and I couldn't get out of their path because I got rooted, stunned or pulled in and the combo of the overlapping AOE's does more DPS in one second than I have in total health. I've always been under the impression they don't need it to do what they do.

VaranisArano

Thecompton73 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that ZOS is saying they're going to nerf/repurpose Harmony so it can't be exploited by solo PvP players, and you're admitting that it can be exploited in PvP by solo Necronancers, but you don't think it should be nerfed because it's also useful by other players in groups in the manner it was intended.

Supposing that ZOS decides not to nerf/repurpose Harmony after all, how would you propose they stop solo Necromancers from exploiting it in PvP?

In my case, it's that Harmony is used by ball groups to bomb zergs too, so I'd understand if that was why ZOS was nerfing it.

But I don't understand why ZOS stated they're nerfing it because of solo play when, IMO, solo players bombing large groups is a pretty healthy part of Cyrodiil's balance since large groups already have the advantage of numbers and organized groups have the advantage of organization. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm a ball group-style player who admires the bombers who pull it off successfully. They keep us on our toes and that's a good thing.

Now, ZOS seems to not want solo necro harmony bombers to be a thing (now, anyways, since its been a thing for a long time), but as someone who was far more likely to be on the receiving end of their harmony bombs, I personally don't see it as an exploit or even an unbalanced build in the wider context of Cyrodiil.

I could totally understand it if ZOS said they didn't like harmony bombing in general, because organized large and small scale groups do it to. We've had Vicious Death and Eye of the Storm nerfs for that reason in the past. But that's not who they pointed to.

Is Harmony really used much for ballgroups? In my experience 99% of the time I've gotten killed by one it's because they all popped Ultimates and I couldn't get out of their path because I got rooted, stunned or pulled in and the combo of the overlapping AOE's does more DPS in one second than I have in total health. I've always been under the impression they don't need it to do what they do.

You're right that they don't need it. It's just that when you've got that many people in one place using synergy skills, it's easy for a ball group to wring the most damage out of it in combination with their usual tactics. Which seems to have been ZOS' intended gameplay with harmony according to the PTS? To add a little more oomph to already powerful organized groups?

Ball groups did their thing before harmony bombs, so they'll just move on to the next efficient version of the AOE train + Ulti dump.

sharquez

Another fun and interesting build/playstyle dies to make room for whatever overpowered [snip] the Arcanist will have. [snip]

The balancing tool is a bazooka.
We don't need more sustain options.
Leave harmony alone.

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

Dayhjawk

-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

I would disagree with this statement. While yes, harmony is not really used in it's current form, the new change to it makes it very interest for tanks. While generally we probably won't be useing it that much, there has been fights as the main tank, where I wish I had more synergies to have sustain, and most of those moments, healers were not able to provide me with enough synergies because of the nature of the encounter. With this new changes, in those encounters, I would need less synergies, because they are giving me more back. So I totally can see this being useful in pve.

Urvoth

Elendir2am wrote: »

We (small-scale) used harmony bombing for taking down ball-groups. What,I believe, was good for PvP.
I think, that they want preserve harmony for small-scale in theirs posts.

Just use coordinated ult dumps instead

SeaGtGruff

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It's odd to me as how hard it is to hit the synergies, that this is the route they went when it was just one thing a Necro could do.

The REALLY big hitters are DKs hitting synergies with harmony WHILE having corrosive up which made the synergy bypass armor for some reason as if that's direct damage, and gave them the tankiness to approach the clump.

The other was ball groups having enough healing and multiple forms of CC to do so

If you got killed by a solo Necro, it was a bomb and usually it was against stacks of squishy players procing the various on death explosions and the solo Necro would get a laugh but probably die and they just start rezing each other.

In fact; most of it has been the on death explosions that made it possible, and it still will be possible with the ability to pull, or even double and triple pull and clump you up with squishy friendlies from 30 meters away and bomb with vicious death, plague break, and occult overload.

Why target something so important to necros? Why are these pulls and death bombs seemingly a sacred cow to ZOS?

Well, to be perfectly fair to ZOS, I didn't see anything in the notes from ZOS which specifically mentioned Necromancers (or any other particular class) in connection with this planned change to Harmony. As far as I can tell, the OP of this thread is where the reference to Necromancers originated.

TechMaybeHic

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It's odd to me as how hard it is to hit the synergies, that this is the route they went when it was just one thing a Necro could do.

The REALLY big hitters are DKs hitting synergies with harmony WHILE having corrosive up which made the synergy bypass armor for some reason as if that's direct damage, and gave them the tankiness to approach the clump.

The other was ball groups having enough healing and multiple forms of CC to do so

If you got killed by a solo Necro, it was a bomb and usually it was against stacks of squishy players procing the various on death explosions and the solo Necro would get a laugh but probably die and they just start rezing each other.

In fact; most of it has been the on death explosions that made it possible, and it still will be possible with the ability to pull, or even double and triple pull and clump you up with squishy friendlies from 30 meters away and bomb with vicious death, plague break, and occult overload.

Why target something so important to necros? Why are these pulls and death bombs seemingly a sacred cow to ZOS?

Well, to be perfectly fair to ZOS, I didn't see anything in the notes from ZOS which specifically mentioned Necromancers (or any other particular class) in connection with this planned change to Harmony. As far as I can tell, the OP of this thread is where the reference to Necromancers originated.

It's the ONLY class that can use harmony solo.

Necrotech_Master

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It's odd to me as how hard it is to hit the synergies, that this is the route they went when it was just one thing a Necro could do.

The REALLY big hitters are DKs hitting synergies with harmony WHILE having corrosive up which made the synergy bypass armor for some reason as if that's direct damage, and gave them the tankiness to approach the clump.

The other was ball groups having enough healing and multiple forms of CC to do so

If you got killed by a solo Necro, it was a bomb and usually it was against stacks of squishy players procing the various on death explosions and the solo Necro would get a laugh but probably die and they just start rezing each other.

In fact; most of it has been the on death explosions that made it possible, and it still will be possible with the ability to pull, or even double and triple pull and clump you up with squishy friendlies from 30 meters away and bomb with vicious death, plague break, and occult overload.

Why target something so important to necros? Why are these pulls and death bombs seemingly a sacred cow to ZOS?

Well, to be perfectly fair to ZOS, I didn't see anything in the notes from ZOS which specifically mentioned Necromancers (or any other particular class) in connection with this planned change to Harmony. As far as I can tell, the OP of this thread is where the reference to Necromancers originated.

It's the ONLY class that can use harmony solo.

there are some proc sets which allow the use of self-synergy

gryphon reprisal and lady thorn i think are 2 which come to mind

Heelie

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

FantasticFreddie

Heelie wrote: »

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

Typically you would only use harmony in very niche cases where you want the burst heal from the blood altar synergy. 900 extra resources is pitiful compared to getting healed to full during baneful.
I can't imagine any tanks are going to swap unless it gets significantly buffed, more like 2000 each per synergy, otherwise infused glyphs will just be better.

ArchMikem

Harmony Bombers instagibbed groups and solo players alike. It's an "I Win" button, plain and simple. I welcome a nerf.

LadyLavina

Op, I understand, really I do,

I'm sure it did see use by PvP'ers in general,

but it was predominantly used by bombers to destroy groups.

The nerf is for the greater good lol.

Heelie

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

Typically you would only use harmony in very niche cases where you want the burst heal from the blood altar synergy. 900 extra resources is pitiful compared to getting healed to full during baneful.
I can't imagine any tanks are going to swap unless it gets significantly buffed, more like 2000 each per synergy, otherwise infused glyphs will just be better.

I made a calculator for it, it's linked in the most recent nefasQs video as I can't link it here. It does beat infused in resource gain at 4 or more synergies.

FantasticFreddie

LadyLavina wrote: »

Op, I understand, really I do,

I'm sure it did see use by PvP'ers in general,

but it was predominantly used by bombers to destroy groups.

The nerf is for the greater good lol.

No, no it really isn't "predominantly used by bombers"
The most common bomb is, as far as I can tell, the good old fashioned nightblade bomber.
Those are the ones that still get me occasionally.

I see necro bombs some, but there is a telegraph and a delay to a necro bomb that you simply do not have with an experienced bomb blade. They are much more avoidable.

I'm convinced people who think it's an ez insta win button have no raid awareness.

TheMightyRevan

Heelie wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

Typically you would only use harmony in very niche cases where you want the burst heal from the blood altar synergy. 900 extra resources is pitiful compared to getting healed to full during baneful.
I can't imagine any tanks are going to swap unless it gets significantly buffed, more like 2000 each per synergy, otherwise infused glyphs will just be better.

I made a calculator for it, it's linked in the most recent nefasQs video as I can't link it here. It does beat infused in resource gain at 4 or more synergies.

that doesnt seem worth it then in my view, considering orb/shards will have the same ressource return from the new harmony trait as it does from the current.

It just completely makes this trait obsolete for pvp, noones gonna use it anymore. it will turn into a niche thing only. So basically the opposite of what they seemingly intended.

Once again i am really doubting, that ZOS actually know whats going on in the game. Random changes for the wrong reasons.

Kisakee

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

Typically you would only use harmony in very niche cases where you want the burst heal from the blood altar synergy. 900 extra resources is pitiful compared to getting healed to full during baneful.
I can't imagine any tanks are going to swap unless it gets significantly buffed, more like 2000 each per synergy, otherwise infused glyphs will just be better.

I made a calculator for it, it's linked in the most recent nefasQs video as I can't link it here. It does beat infused in resource gain at 4 or more synergies.

that doesnt seem worth it then in my view, considering orb/shards will have the same ressource return from the new harmony trait as it does from the current.

It just completely makes this trait obsolete for pvp, noones gonna use it anymore. it will turn into a niche thing only. So basically the opposite of what they seemingly intended.

Once again i am really doubting, that ZOS actually know whats going on in the game. Random changes for the wrong reasons.

You always only have PvP in mind. There are way, WAY more people playing PvE and a lot of tanks, myself included, will most likely switch to it.

Thecompton73

Kisakee wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

It beats infused with a tri cost reduction glyph, at 4 or more synergies per min. So a good change for pve tanks for some encounters, does that make the change good? I would'nt really say that tanks have been calling out for more sustain. Tanks already have too many sets so not everyone is going to pick it up I think.

Typically you would only use harmony in very niche cases where you want the burst heal from the blood altar synergy. 900 extra resources is pitiful compared to getting healed to full during baneful.
I can't imagine any tanks are going to swap unless it gets significantly buffed, more like 2000 each per synergy, otherwise infused glyphs will just be better.

I made a calculator for it, it's linked in the most recent nefasQs video as I can't link it here. It does beat infused in resource gain at 4 or more synergies.

that doesnt seem worth it then in my view, considering orb/shards will have the same ressource return from the new harmony trait as it does from the current.

It just completely makes this trait obsolete for pvp, noones gonna use it anymore. it will turn into a niche thing only. So basically the opposite of what they seemingly intended.

Once again i am really doubting, that ZOS actually know whats going on in the game. Random changes for the wrong reasons.

You always only have PvP in mind. There are way, WAY more people playing PvE and a lot of tanks, myself included, will most likely switch to it.

Then in six months ZOS will decide it's making tanking too easy and come up with a way to destroy sustain for tanks so you'll be worse off than before the change. Enjoy it while it lasts.

jm42

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

jm42 wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

-has impact in pve... again noone in pve is gonna use harmony because getting some more sustain from synergies is utterly underwhelming compared to just have more damage from bloodthirsty

there are tanks in this game btw

you do realise, that you already get sustain from synergies through the undaunted passives + harmony already gives you 20% more ressources and healing from synergies. thats all you need as a tank btw. its just a flat nerf. again

Also i didnt really try to go too in depth about it. i only made this thread to highlight the developer comment and show how everything in there is wrong, [snip]

I can see that you never tanked yourself or tanked but not the hardest pve content where main tank can just survive alone in many cases and don't have synergies as much as needed

[edited to remove quote]