Letters being sent out to streamers in advance of the reveal

Supreme_Atromancer

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Divayth Fyr will teach us about game and parenting

I dunno, but I once got ganked so hard in Cyrodiil by a certain "Doctor", I think it created a Dragonbreak. I turned to ask for some proof of credentials but he hit me so hard it sent me back to TES2.

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

What if we were to get to see pre-collapse Winterhold, but it is bound in the threads of fate, and temporal tears?

Winterhold collapsed in the 4th era. I don't think there were foreshadowings of this already in the 2nd.

Supreme_Atromancer

Syldras wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

What if we were to get to see pre-collapse Winterhold, but it is bound in the threads of fate, and temporal tears?

Winterhold collapsed in the 4th era. I don't think there were foreshadowings of this already in the 2nd.

Time tears lead to the possibility of many alternate narratives not otherwise possible.

I think there's lots wrong with my crazy idea, but this isn't one of them.

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Time tears lead to the possibility of many alternate narratives not otherwise possible.
I think there's lots wrong with my crazy idea, but this isn't one of them.

While I'm always open to unusual ideas, I think it's important to also consider probabilities. And after last year's very straightforward writing, I can't imagine ZOS to write a story that unusual.

Supreme_Atromancer

Syldras wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Time tears lead to the possibility of many alternate narratives not otherwise possible.
I think there's lots wrong with my crazy idea, but this isn't one of them.

While I'm always open to unusual ideas, I think it's important to also consider probabilities. And after last year's very straightforward writing, I can't imagine ZOS to write a story that unusual.

Its a stretch, for sure. Mostly wishful thinking. We all really want to see pre-collapse Winterhold one day. I see one co-incidence "oooh! fate!" and its "Winterhold definitely confirmed. Get me someone from Gamerant on the line NOW!"

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Its a stretch, for sure. Mostly wishful thinking. We all really want to see pre-collapse Winterhold one day. I see one co-incidence "oooh! fate!" and its "Winterhold definitely confirmed. Get me someone from Gamerant on the line NOW!"

Maybe this is a case where one should be careful what one wishes for I'd, generally speaking, love a Telvanni story - but what is it worth if they totally botch it with bad storywriting and cliché characters? After last year I'm really, really sceptical.

Supreme_Atromancer

Syldras wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Its a stretch, for sure. Mostly wishful thinking. We all really want to see pre-collapse Winterhold one day. I see one co-incidence "oooh! fate!" and its "Winterhold definitely confirmed. Get me someone from Gamerant on the line NOW!"

Maybe this is a case where one should be careful what one wishes for I'd, generally speaking, love a Telvanni story - but what is it worth if they totally botch it with bad storywriting and cliché characters? After last year I'm really, really sceptical.

Writing for a market must be hard. To do it for an MMO harder still.

The promise of "expansive story" gives me the hope that the writers will be given the space they need to shine, as my greatest suspicion on last year's culprit is not enough space to do all the really dense subject matter and all the themes we hoped for the justice it needed.

That and I personally really hope that they hold back a little bit on the "wacky zany" thing. For me, while I think it DOES exist in TES, I think its overdone in ESO. Might be personal preference. Tone is really important to me.

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Writing for a market must be hard. To do it for an MMO harder still.
The promise of "expansive story" gives me the hope that the writers will be given the space they need to shine, as my greatest suspicion on last year's culprit is not enough space to do all the really dense subject matter and all the themes we hoped for the justice it needed.
That and I personally really hope that they hold back a little bit on the "wacky zany" thing. For me, while I think it DOES exist in TES, I think its overdone in ESO. Might be personal preference. Tone is really important to me.

I see that not only being creative on demand but also fitting all ideas into a rigid schedule (fixed release dates, 2-part story, story length) can be hard. Also from a marketing perspective it's necessary to appeal to as many people as possible, to find a balance to appeal to all kinds of players from newbies to lore nerds, from people who want a rather serious approach to those who prefer a bit of humour - and that's only the story aspect, all other gameplay aspects make it even more complicated, I know. Still I found their writing last year too simplified. Too stereotypical, dialogues mostly very simple and repetative, too much reliance on bawdy jokes, the stories weren't really surprising and mostly foreseeable (and the lore mistakes weren't necessary either). And when I think of this year's (probable) theme now - Hermaeus Mora, the Telvanni, mages, scholars, the hunt for knowledge and mysteries - that especially calls for depth and a certain elaborateness, otherwise it won't be convincing.

Supreme_Atromancer

Syldras wrote: »

I see that not only being creative on demand but also fitting all ideas into a rigid schedule (fixed release dates, 2-part story, story length) can be hard. Also from a marketing perspective it's necessary to appeal to as many people as possible, to find a balance to appeal to all kinds of players from newbies to lore nerds, from people who want a rather serious approach to those who prefer a bit of humour - and that's only the story aspect, all other gameplay aspects make it even more complicated, I know. Still I found their writing last year too simplified. Too stereotypical, dialogues mostly very simple and repetative, too much reliance on bawdy jokes, the stories weren't really surprising and mostly foreseeable (and the lore mistakes weren't necessary either). And when I think of this year's (probable) theme now - Hermaeus Mora, the Telvanni, mages, scholars, the hunt for knowledge and mysteries - that especially calls for depth and a certain elaborateness, otherwise it won't be convincing.

I'm gonna spoiler this because its a bit tangential and rambly, so its easier to scroll past for anyone not interested.

I actually think there were some really good moments last year. For me, the ball(?) scene during High Isle MQ was well done, and fun to explore. It felt like the quintessence of Bretondom to me, and one of my disappointments with the chapter was that the theme done so well in this one scene wasn't really iterated on so that others would get the same feel, and therefore couldn't carry an important part of what they said Bretons were. Maybe, to get this sense of GOT-esque power moves and political maneuvering it was meant to carry, we should have encountered similar dynamics a half-dozen times or more. Its the same with Dumard's dialogue about magic. It feels right. But its, like, one throw-away line to hold a crucial aspect of Breton character (which Druid magic alone can't replace). As others have expressed elsewhere, Mornard's wrap-up dialogue at the end of Galen felt in retrospect like a last ditch effort to ram home something that the world should have been telling us all along. These are both examples of my feeling that the writing wasn't the problem- its GOOD writing, it just needed more space to be iterated and explored. And also, the writing is going to be bound by what the already-decided creative direction is going to allow (and also what it forces).

I liked the Ascendant Mage reveal scene. It might have been obvious for some people, but it was clever to stop and check in with the players lol. We actually abandoned the quest and started it again in order to play closer attention and see if we could come up with the right personality.

That, and Druidry overly-dominated the core of "legacy" at the expense of other important things, AND its harder to care about some random island (even though the artists did STUNNING work) when HIGH ROCK *IS* the story of the Bretons. But these feel like criticisms of dictated direction that the writers just have to conform to.

I can actually say the same with Blackwood MQ, and The Reach. Both have very lore-dense moments that I think reflect a mastery of the lore, including that which ZOS itself has generated. Blackwood felt compelling, and pulled no punches.

And then you get moments like Arox the Mutilator. Who wrote that? They did such a fantastic job. THAT was funny. Clever, entertaining writing. Not bawdry, not wacky. Didn't ruin the tone. Amongst the best-written of anything in ESO imv.

Anyway, most of the reason I wanted to express that is because although I mostly agree with you, and think you've captured a lot of the sentiment others seem to feel, I think some of the community criticism about the writing in general, and last year's in particular is generalised as entirely bad, and not recognising some of the good stuff. Which is important to call out because if its expressed, it can be capitalised on in the future.

Orrrrrr, maybe the scope and expense of writing and voice acting is such that Matt's letter is actually saying that the scope they would need to engage to make story-writing actually work is just more than they can actually keep up with, and the criticisms around last year's story has made this abundantly apparent- that writing will be far more limited in scope going forward. Expansive story arcs, made up of maybe less ambitious writing scope in any particular year.

Either way, to bring it back home to this year's potential story, I think that anything involving Hermaeous Mora could practically write itself. Fate, time, etc, really opens out the possibilities of what they could do. I'm invested in remaining optimistic.

Tornaad

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

A little tease to help your theory crafting:

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1616442936065167365

Okay, my theory is that something is threatening the realm of Hermaeus Mora and has released into the world bits of knowledge too dangerous to be left to mortals, and Hermaeus Mora will be recruiting the player to help gather the dangerous knowledge in exchange for teaching them how to craft spells.

Clyde_BlueSnake

Darkstorne wrote: »

Seems very much like they're teasing a time travel or dragon break scenario here, where we hop back and forth across... two versions of Nirn? Or maybe even kalpas if that's possible? Calling them "worlds" rather than timelines is interesting, which they've done twice now.

Buckle up champion, we time traveling:

[futuristic time traveling music plays]
https://youtu.be/mfqVC614QPs

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I'm gonna spoiler this because its a bit tangential and rambly, so its easier to scroll past for anyone not interested.

We're derailing this too much, I think, so I don't want to get too detailed in my reply (even if I read everything); I agree with you that there are also a few interesting ideas in High Isle's and Firesong's writing, but generally, I have the impression that the quality sadly really diminished from year to year. If I compare it to the Morrowind and Summerset chapters, those really were on another level. But you're right, it might be reasonable to also mention positive aspects in reviews/criticism so they know what we as their customers like and so they can build on that.

Supreme_Atromancer

One of my earlier guesses, based on some of the things said in Matt's letter, was "base game refresh". My rationale was based on comments made by Rich some time ago in answering a fan question, when he explained that the team would absolutely LOVE to have a second parse at the old zones, but posed the (probably rhetorical, at the time) question of how happy that would make people, because they clearly couldn't also produce a new zone while redoing the older ones to the same quality and philosophy as the modern ones.

Matt's letter, imv, could be the indirect answer to this question: the appetite for newer zones is less. They want to consolidate on what they already have. Now if we assume that a complete and instant redo of the enitre basegame world is out of the question, it makes sense that they might be redoing old zones or zone-clusters, one at a time. If it has become more important to the team (and given the AMPLE criticism from people about the accuracy of the map, and the high fidelity of more recent zones like W. Skyrim, Blackwood, Gold Coast etc. it seems reasonable that they do), they might pick parts of the map that have been seen in a modern game relatively recently to work on, and leave zones they know are likely to cause the same sorts of criticisms- Hammerfell, if we take it for granted- til towards the end of a multi-year refresh program.

I think this could work in tandem with a revisit of "overland difficulty"- making overland encounters more engaging with such things as wandering world bosses and suped-up world events, and even recalibrated overland mobs. I don't think they'll ever do Craglorn 2.0- I think that kind of difficulty was never designed with solo play in mind, and would still be a bad idea today. But I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to revamp the map, that they'd want to make the maps worth being in by making things at least a little more engaging.

If Rich's observation that people would not be happy with nothing "new" due to the demands of a refresh, could- say- Eastmarch, as the first of such zones to be refreshed fill the void if refreshing it made it so new, and so much better that it practically was new? What if they revamped Windhelm to look like the ancient 1st era city it looks like in Skyrim, and fixed the map to better resemble what we explore in that game? What if they kept mostly to keeping the scale, but appended one or two COMPLETELY NEW areas- say Blacklight or Winterhold- so no one is likely to feel like they aren't getting anything new?

Its wild speculation that I've just found some narrative to support. But it does answer the question of "how" posed over a year ago, even if it was meant to be entirely rhetorical. Many people think we're going Telvanni this year, and I don't even disagree. If so, my speculation seems far less likely. BUT, we're in that neck of the woods. Blacklight is just off to the side of Eastmarch, and its hard to see how it could support its own entire zone. And looking closely at the lore, even Winterhold is- in part- a Dunmer story.

TinyDragon

A base game refresh would give them a place to do bosmer content as well; I'd love to see valenwood as an actual forest.

ElvenOverlord

Elsonso wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

A little tease to help your theory crafting:

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1616442936065167365

I love the eyes on the ouroboros!

Also note that only two of the three heads in the logo are plainly visible. The third is obscured by the fog. We now know what part of Tamriel this will involve.

I think you could also say the eyes are visible on all three heads, but end up lingering on the EP head only, so therefore we know where it's set. It's all vague enough that you can read whatever you want from the visuals.

The text is the interesting part imo: "Never have the threads of fate become so twisted. Two worlds hang in the balance. Come, champion. Let us preserve what threatens to unravel, like pages tossed in a roaring fire."

Seems very much like they're teasing a time travel or dragon break scenario here, where we hop back and forth across... two versions of Nirn? Or maybe even kalpas if that's possible? Calling them "worlds" rather than timelines is interesting, which they've done twice now.

There was already something mentioned that there has been none, nor will there be dragon breaks within ESO. Apocrypha and Tamriel could be the two worlds, hence the green fog, hue in the teaser-which is what Apocrypha is like.

I don't think this is a dragon break scenario, either. Never been in one, and hope we never are. From a real world perspective it was a literary device to address a game (TES 2) that had multiple player-driven outcomes that allowed them to all be canon for the next game. I can see why they did it. It was quick and dirty, but it should not be repeated.

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

They are having less and less free space in Tamriel and most of it is in couple provinces: Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, Black Marsh and Morrowind. It we have Telvanni this year, than they will only 4 provinces to switch between next years? How many argonian marshes and another Skyrim chapters we can take before it will be too boring?

So I think that they make a bigger plot which will bring us to another Tamriel in couple years (2-4?). It can be time travel or another dimension in some kind parallel universe.

ZOS has more space to use for stories than there are Chapters left in the game. The have Oblivion planes and if they run out of those, infinite pocket realms that can be explored, not to mention continents on Nirn that are totally unexplored. They don't need to invent time travel, like Blizzard did in World of Warcraft, to give themselves more room.

Time travel has always existed in Wow through the Bronze flight and the Aspect of Time. That just didn't get invented out of nowhere in WOD

Cireous

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

If Rich's observation that people would not be happy with nothing "new" due to the demands of a refresh, could- say- Eastmarch, as the first of such zones to be refreshed fill the void if refreshing it made it so new, and so much better that it practically was new? What if they revamped Windhelm to look like the ancient 1st era city it looks like in Skyrim, and fixed the map to better resemble what we explore in that game? What if they kept mostly to keeping the scale, but appended one or two COMPLETELY NEW areas- say Blacklight or Winterhold- so no one is likely to feel like they aren't getting anything new?

Windhelm getting the Markarth/Solitude treatment would absolutely make my year. Doing this type of thing all over the map, while adding new, medium sized houses for us to buy up, while beefing up the Overland AND having an original Chapter the same year AND adding Spellcrafting (okay, maybe that's way too much stuff for one year). But, yeh, I would die--in all the best ways. I could not imagine a better year-long-release than this.

However, with the reveal just around the corner, it's time shovel all hope into a dirt grave, and prepare for mild disappointment, and, fingers crossed, pleasant 'surprise' at something that might come at us that is entirely unexpected.

Or maybe they can do us a solid, just this once, and after getting every one hyped up (AGAIN) about Spellcrafting... they'll actually ADD Spellcrafting.

But, no. That would be really inconsistent. It cannot happen. It would not happen, will never happen, and I do not believe in it.

As I attempt to reverse psychology this thing into existence.

Muizer

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

A little tease to help your theory crafting:

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1616442936065167365

That clinches it. We're going under water after all! The 'two worlds' are 'under the sky' and 'under the sea'. Some plot to dissolve the boundary and turn Nirn into an elemental soup!

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

Still I found their writing last year too simplified. Too stereotypical, dialogues mostly very simple and repetative, too much reliance on bawdy jokes, the stories weren't really surprising and mostly foreseeable (and the lore mistakes weren't necessary either). And when I think of this year's (probable) theme now - Hermaeus Mora, the Telvanni, mages, scholars, the hunt for knowledge and mysteries - that especially calls for depth and a certain elaborateness, otherwise it won't be convincing.

ZOS has a lot of hurdles to overcome, and expecting that they will be up to the task of doing anything but a Diet Zone is risky. At least, with some sense of quality. They can always slap something together and send it, I guess. Whatever they have come up with, we can be sure that marketing will make it look like a 4 star AAA gourmet experience. We won't find out what it is actually like until PTS.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I think that anything involving Hermaeous Mora could practically write itself. Fate, time, etc, really opens out the possibilities of what they could do. I'm invested in remaining optimistic.

If stories could write themselves, no one would need editors.

Zuboko wrote: »

Okay, my theory is that something is threatening the realm of Hermaeus Mora and has released into the world bits of knowledge too dangerous to be left to mortals, and Hermaeus Mora will be recruiting the player to help gather the dangerous knowledge in exchange for teaching them how to craft spells.

Oh yeah. If HM is involved, there is some artifact with knowledge that is both dangerous and powerful. That is pretty much what he deals in. Whether that is spell crafting, possibly, but not guaranteed. It would make an excellent related feature, but not the only one.

So far... I am not aware of any published hints point to spell crafting as the feature being introduced.

Drammanoth

Well, they HAVE TO hype us up for another (indistinguishable) Chapter to milk... ahem, to get our money, don't they?

Elsonso

Drammanoth wrote: »

Well, they HAVE TO hype us up for another (indistinguishable) Chapter to milk... ahem, to get our money, don't they?

There is an endemic problem with marketing in the gaming industry... This year, the ESO announcement seems to have more formal marketing hype built around it. My gut tell me more hype, less value, across all four of the products being showcased next week.

Carlos93

This year it's about Thras and the daedra lord Peryite.
"Two worlds, under the sky and under the sea".
It refers to the fact that we could visit the submerged kingdom of sloads.
The green mist is about the Thrassian flu referencing Thras sloads.
That is my theory.

Carlos93

If you look at the eye that comes out right next to each alliance head, you will realize that it looks like the eye of a sload.
Please watch the video again.

Elsonso

Carlos93 wrote: »

If you look at the eye that comes out right next to each alliance head, you will realize that it looks like the eye of a sload.
Please watch the video again.

Maybe, but it is the eye of Hermaeus Mora

Carlos93

Elsonso wrote: »

Carlos93 wrote: »

If you look at the eye that comes out right next to each alliance head, you will realize that it looks like the eye of a sload.
Please watch the video again.

Maybe, but it is the eye of Hermaeus Mora

Hermaeus mora's eye looks like a peanut.
The eye that appears in the video is elongated like that of a toad or a sload.
I may be wrong.

Elsonso

Carlos93 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Carlos93 wrote: »

If you look at the eye that comes out right next to each alliance head, you will realize that it looks like the eye of a sload.
Please watch the video again.

Maybe, but it is the eye of Hermaeus Mora

Hermaeus mora's eye looks like a peanut.
The eye that appears in the video is elongated like that of a toad or a sload.
I may be wrong.

It is blurry, but it looks the same to me.

alternatelder

Carlos93 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Carlos93 wrote: »

If you look at the eye that comes out right next to each alliance head, you will realize that it looks like the eye of a sload.
Please watch the video again.

Maybe, but it is the eye of Hermaeus Mora

Hermaeus mora's eye looks like a peanut.
The eye that appears in the video is elongated like that of a toad or a sload.
I may be wrong.

Nah, definitely one of HM's eye.

Syldras

Plus, there's the letter that clearly has Hermaeus Mora's symbol on it.

Seraphayel

Yeah, it’s undeniable that Hermaeus Mora will play a major role by this point.

TinyDragon

TinyDragon wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

A little tease to help your theory crafting:

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1616442936065167365

I love the eyes on the ouroboros!

Also note that only two of the three heads in the logo are plainly visible. The third is obscured by the fog. We now know what part of Tamriel this will involve.

I think you could also say the eyes are visible on all three heads, but end up lingering on the EP head only, so therefore we know where it's set. It's all vague enough that you can read whatever you want from the visuals.

The text is the interesting part imo: "Never have the threads of fate become so twisted. Two worlds hang in the balance. Come, champion. Let us preserve what threatens to unravel, like pages tossed in a roaring fire."

Seems very much like they're teasing a time travel or dragon break scenario here, where we hop back and forth across... two versions of Nirn? Or maybe even kalpas if that's possible? Calling them "worlds" rather than timelines is interesting, which they've done twice now.

There was already something mentioned that there has been none, nor will there be dragon breaks within ESO. Apocrypha and Tamriel could be the two worlds, hence the green fog, hue in the teaser-which is what Apocrypha is like.

I've looked everywhere and I have not found a single reference of 'world' when talking about a plane of Oblivion- it could be, but I'm not sold because it seems very deliberate wording.....

And I've now found a reference; in the lorebook The Chim El-Adabal, Mannimarco refers to being god of 2 worlds- Nirn and Coldharbour/Oblivion.

Kisakee

Muizer wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

A little tease to help your theory crafting:

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1616442936065167365

That clinches it. We're going under water after all! The 'two worlds' are 'under the sky' and 'under the sea'. Some plot to dissolve the boundary and turn Nirn into an elemental soup!

I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture.