Sorc 2 OP for death match

jaws343

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

<snip>
For this death match event, i will use sorc and destroy everything in sight.

22 killing blows and only 500k damage. I mean let's face it, you stole your teammate's kills.

Here's the meta way.

1. Equip Gladiator set
2. Spam Endless Fury
3. ???
4. Profit

Definitely playing in a lower MMR. I was regularly putting up 1.5M damage on my sorc this weekend with like 6 kills.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

They are good for stealing kills in DM, especially in Low MMR. You can certainly have an impressive KDR, but your damage done is very sub par in those postings. Mages wrath doesnt kill anything that wasnt already dead. Take that strat into a high MMR BG and it wont be nearly as effective.

Caribou77

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Crazy good package traffic manipulation software he has lol

Or likely my crappy wifi 😕

seventy_kg

sorc op if you don't know what you're doing, sorc is one of the worst pvp classes right now, probably the worst

Dr_Con

jaws343 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

<snip>
For this death match event, i will use sorc and destroy everything in sight.

22 killing blows and only 500k damage. I mean let's face it, you stole your teammate's kills.

Here's the meta way.

1. Equip Gladiator set
2. Spam Endless Fury
3. ???
4. Profit

Definitely playing in a lower MMR. I was regularly putting up 1.5M damage on my sorc this weekend with like 6 kills.

The tank meta is poo.

AdamLAD

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

Dr_Con

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

You expecting Santa to give you a "*** *** ***?" more like "Ha ha ha! good one!"

(edit, wow, can't believe Santa's famous greeting was filtered out. ZOS = grinch confirmed?!)

But seriously, fighting wardens in BGs right now is complete butt if you use any sort of projectile due to slab. A class shouldn't be able to mitigate an entire type of damage and shoot freezing bolts at people who hit them when the freezing effect can't be immediately broken out of. The sorc's variant of this is telegraphed better when it procs, costs about the same mana, and doesn't even block damage. It lasts about 2 minutes, which is cool i guess if you just spawned and want to use an add-on to cast it on yourself real quick then swap off, but it's not something people will use mid-battle generally speaking. The Warden's ability will absorb 3 hits due to how massive the shield is. The fact that it lasts 3 seconds doesn't really mean much in 1v1s or even 1v2s against ranged as they can only hope to hit you with 4 projectiles in the span of 1 GCD, where you will block 3 of them every time and reflect the damage. Pretty much the only comparable thing that offers this type of utility is the sword and board ultimate, and even then it doesn't turn reflected damage into a stun.

Turtle_Bot

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip]

By making server lags more ? ) I do not really see other way some random player can make me any problems )

But in current state it already do not normally work - so I think i will se no difference

[edited to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Luede

you don't understand how the sorc works, likewise you can send any other class into the field that just spams an execute, only unlike sorc, the other classes can do other things pretty well, that's why they get the opponents into execute range in the first place.

just because the sorc gets the kill doesn't make him op, the fight doesn't start at 25% hp.

Turtle_Bot

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

Are you really going to say that the DK, which is a very close second to one of the strongest class's in the game is weaker than the weakest class in the game?

Wings are super strong, especially against a range class like sorcerer. 6 seconds of free 50% mitigation + reflected damage against range attacks or 50% mitigation against range attacks + snare removal + immunity is crazy strong. The only stronger similar abilities are warden slab because that ability stuns and warden got recently buffed and sword and board ULTIMATE.

DK has THE best self heal in the game with coag. A burst heal that is already almost as strong as the top heals in the game that nearly doubles its heal the lower your health is. DK also has cinder storm which provides plars cleansing ritual levels of healing on top of being spammable to allow for dk to permanently block everything.

Molten armaments was being abused to 1 shot people in pvp with a single heavy attack, sorcs have never been able to do that, even before they got gutted over the past year, and even with their unique 10% heavy attack passive that was removed from bound armaments in the U35 mass nerf of sorcerer.

As for sorc not losing anything, did you see the nerfs the class received in U35??????

Half of the classes kit was nerfed into the ground. Sorc was nerfed so hard in U35 that the devs had to buff 2 skills for the PVE pet build each with a 100% damage increase as a last minute "save" of the class to allow sorcs 1 build that could still be viable for pve. The class was literally dead, even on zos's own spreadsheets, before they did those last minute pve buffs.
Outside of that, it's hard to lose what the class doesn't have to begin with. It doesn't have healing, it doesn't have mitigation, it doesn't have anything that allows it to stand and fight, so sure, from that perspective it's pretty hard to lose what it never had in the first place.

If you're talking about 3 years ago, go play the current game, dk is one of the top classes in the game currently and has been ever since it got extreme buffs in U32/U33.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

Are you really going to say that the DK, which is a very close second to one of the strongest class's in the game is weaker than the weakest class in the game?

Wings are super strong, especially against a range class like sorcerer. 6 seconds of free 50% mitigation + reflected damage against range attacks or 50% mitigation against range attacks + snare removal + immunity is crazy strong. The only stronger similar abilities are warden slab because that ability stuns and warden got recently buffed and sword and board ULTIMATE.

DK has THE best self heal in the game with coag. A burst heal that is already almost as strong as the top heals in the game that nearly doubles its heal the lower your health is. DK also has cinder storm which provides plars cleansing ritual levels of healing on top of being spammable to allow for dk to permanently block everything.

Molten armaments was being abused to 1 shot people in pvp with a single heavy attack, sorcs have never been able to do that, even before they got gutted over the past year, and even with their unique 10% heavy attack passive that was removed from bound armaments in the U35 mass nerf of sorcerer.

As for sorc not losing anything, did you see the nerfs the class received in U35??????

Half of the classes kit was nerfed into the ground. Sorc was nerfed so hard in U35 that the devs had to buff 2 skills for the PVE pet build each with a 100% damage increase as a last minute "save" of the class to allow sorcs 1 build that could still be viable for pve. The class was literally dead, even on zos's own spreadsheets, before they did those last minute pve buffs.
Outside of that, it's hard to lose what the class doesn't have to begin with. It doesn't have healing, it doesn't have mitigation, it doesn't have anything that allows it to stand and fight, so sure, from that perspective it's pretty hard to lose what it never had in the first place.

If you're talking about 3 years ago, go play the current game, dk is one of the top classes in the game currently and has been ever since it got extreme buffs in U32/U33.

[snip]

[snip]

I understand that you "protect your class" to make it look week and do not get nerfs, but based on all time this gme exist - sorc newer get nerfs, so I do not think some thing will change.

The same time sorcs are not too OP.

You can always overperform 1 sorc with 2 sorcs

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

axi

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

Are you really going to say that the DK, which is a very close second to one of the strongest class's in the game is weaker than the weakest class in the game?

Wings are super strong, especially against a range class like sorcerer. 6 seconds of free 50% mitigation + reflected damage against range attacks or 50% mitigation against range attacks + snare removal + immunity is crazy strong. The only stronger similar abilities are warden slab because that ability stuns and warden got recently buffed and sword and board ULTIMATE.

DK has THE best self heal in the game with coag. A burst heal that is already almost as strong as the top heals in the game that nearly doubles its heal the lower your health is. DK also has cinder storm which provides plars cleansing ritual levels of healing on top of being spammable to allow for dk to permanently block everything.

Molten armaments was being abused to 1 shot people in pvp with a single heavy attack, sorcs have never been able to do that, even before they got gutted over the past year, and even with their unique 10% heavy attack passive that was removed from bound armaments in the U35 mass nerf of sorcerer.

As for sorc not losing anything, did you see the nerfs the class received in U35??????

Half of the classes kit was nerfed into the ground. Sorc was nerfed so hard in U35 that the devs had to buff 2 skills for the PVE pet build each with a 100% damage increase as a last minute "save" of the class to allow sorcs 1 build that could still be viable for pve. The class was literally dead, even on zos's own spreadsheets, before they did those last minute pve buffs.
Outside of that, it's hard to lose what the class doesn't have to begin with. It doesn't have healing, it doesn't have mitigation, it doesn't have anything that allows it to stand and fight, so sure, from that perspective it's pretty hard to lose what it never had in the first place.

If you're talking about 3 years ago, go play the current game, dk is one of the top classes in the game currently and has been ever since it got extreme buffs in U32/U33.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Ok as far as I agree that sorc is in pretty sorry state atm I canot agree with few statements about DK abilities that are being said here.

Saying that wings are "super strong" is an exaggeration. They are mediocre because they lack some general direction which is why You wont find many DKs using them. Not only 50% dmg mitigation is not that great as it sounds but secondary effects combined with the cost really dont make for this ability to be desired by many DKs. 50% mitigation sounds only nice on paper but You need to take under consideration how formula for damage reduction works and that You have there already two big contributors which are resistances and battle spirit plus few other factors like CPs, block, dmg reduction buffs and debuffs etc. This results with original 50% reduction from wings to realistically drop down to something like 15-25%. It can be usefull when You expect to fight a group of fully projectile based opponents. Otherwise that dmg reduction on projectiles won't cut it. Morph that reflects dmg is basically never used by DKs because it's kinda weak. It's a damage that You dont have control over so You cannot usefully incorporate it to Your kit. When enemy goes into defese he will stop using projectiles at You so You wont benefit in any way from that reflected dmg and when enemy is attacking You from distance that reflected dmg alone is not enough to make a difference. When it comes to snare/immobilize removal that morph is better but due to lack of any other strong secondary effect You will usually find DKs choosing other skill because as I said projectile dmg reduction is kinda meh and snare/immobilize removal alone wont make this ability better than for example race against time or mist form. Wings are mediocre at best and far from crazy or super strong. Crystalised slab is not just stronger, it's miles ahead wings, not only because of stun but also because it's cheaper due to magicka restore and absorbs whole projectile dmg not just reduces it by a bit.

Now even bigger misconception, coagulating blood. It is not the best selfheal in the game. Lets start with You claim that it almost doubles in heal. it doesn't. Description says "up to 50%" which is far from "up to 100%" that doubling in heal would require. And even to get that 50% more heal You would need to be at 1% health so more realistically You will get usually somwhere in the area of 20-40% more heal. This brings us to another point. Coag is not "almost as strong as other top heals" in the game. Base scaling formula for coag is 0,13 max stat+ 1,36 max power when necro, templar, sorc and nb top burst heals scaling formula is 0,16 max stat+1,63 max power which makes base tooltips for necro, templar, sorc and nb 20-25% higher than coag have. That is pretty significant difference which basically means that for a DK to reach similar tooltip on a coag like for example nb have on healthy offering DK needs to drop down to the region of 40% health. When I play BG in my cmx max heal i had on a DK from coag was just around 2k higher than my max healthy offering heal on a nb. Both classes were wearing similar setups and were reaching similar max stats. It is really not that great when You consider a fact that nb gets also minor mending and way lower cost of healthy offering and dk at best will get 2k more heal (15k vs 13k)and only when he's near death because on average nb heal will have similar or even higher value. That additional 2k heal on low health is all DK gets from coag whil some ot the other classes have way better secondary effects like massive magicka restore on templar, mentioned cost reduction and minor mending on nb, resistance buff on necro or AoE stun+dmg+ higher chance to chilled status effect(minor maim) on warden. And now even bigger elephant in the room. Templar, sorc, nb and necro spammable burst sealfheals are also crossheals. You really cannot pretend that this part isn't important in real PvP. DK is the only class without reliable crossheal while his main heal gets just a bit more healing when user is near death. All things considered I would say that best class burst selfheals starting from best to worst would go like that: healthy offering, arctic blast, honor the death, resistant flesh, coagulating blood and at the end matriarch. Fact that coag pulls the highest numbers in cmx while under lucky circumstances doesn't make it the best in the game. That additional heal alone won't remove the fact that every other class have way better seccondary effects and option to use selfheal as a crossheal.

Turtle_Bot

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

Are you really going to say that the DK, which is a very close second to one of the strongest class's in the game is weaker than the weakest class in the game?

Wings are super strong, especially against a range class like sorcerer. 6 seconds of free 50% mitigation + reflected damage against range attacks or 50% mitigation against range attacks + snare removal + immunity is crazy strong. The only stronger similar abilities are warden slab because that ability stuns and warden got recently buffed and sword and board ULTIMATE.

DK has THE best self heal in the game with coag. A burst heal that is already almost as strong as the top heals in the game that nearly doubles its heal the lower your health is. DK also has cinder storm which provides plars cleansing ritual levels of healing on top of being spammable to allow for dk to permanently block everything.

Molten armaments was being abused to 1 shot people in pvp with a single heavy attack, sorcs have never been able to do that, even before they got gutted over the past year, and even with their unique 10% heavy attack passive that was removed from bound armaments in the U35 mass nerf of sorcerer.

As for sorc not losing anything, did you see the nerfs the class received in U35??????

Half of the classes kit was nerfed into the ground. Sorc was nerfed so hard in U35 that the devs had to buff 2 skills for the PVE pet build each with a 100% damage increase as a last minute "save" of the class to allow sorcs 1 build that could still be viable for pve. The class was literally dead, even on zos's own spreadsheets, before they did those last minute pve buffs.
Outside of that, it's hard to lose what the class doesn't have to begin with. It doesn't have healing, it doesn't have mitigation, it doesn't have anything that allows it to stand and fight, so sure, from that perspective it's pretty hard to lose what it never had in the first place.

If you're talking about 3 years ago, go play the current game, dk is one of the top classes in the game currently and has been ever since it got extreme buffs in U32/U33.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Ok as far as I agree that sorc is in pretty sorry state atm I canot agree with few statements about DK abilities that are being said here.

Saying that wings are "super strong" is an exaggeration. They are mediocre because they lack some general direction which is why You wont find many DKs using them. Not only 50% dmg mitigation is not that great as it sounds but secondary effects combined with the cost really dont make for this ability to be desired by many DKs. 50% mitigation sounds only nice on paper but You need to take under consideration how formula for damage reduction works and that You have there already two big contributors which are resistances and battle spirit plus few other factors like CPs, block, dmg reduction buffs and debuffs etc. This results with original 50% reduction from wings to realistically drop down to something like 15-25%. It can be usefull when You expect to fight a group of fully projectile based opponents. Otherwise that dmg reduction on projectiles won't cut it. Morph that reflects dmg is basically never used by DKs because it's kinda weak. It's a damage that You dont have control over so You cannot usefully incorporate it to Your kit. When enemy goes into defese he will stop using projectiles at You so You wont benefit in any way from that reflected dmg and when enemy is attacking You from distance that reflected dmg alone is not enough to make a difference. When it comes to snare/immobilize removal that morph is better but due to lack of any other strong secondary effect You will usually find DKs choosing other skill because as I said projectile dmg reduction is kinda meh and snare/immobilize removal alone wont make this ability better than for example race against time or mist form. Wings are mediocre at best and far from crazy or super strong. Crystalised slab is not just stronger, it's miles ahead wings, not only because of stun but also because it's cheaper due to magicka restore and absorbs whole projectile dmg not just reduces it by a bit.

Now even bigger misconception, coagulating blood. It is not the best selfheal in the game. Lets start with You claim that it almost doubles in heal. it doesn't. Description says "up to 50%" which is far from "up to 100%" that doubling in heal would require. And even to get that 50% more heal You would need to be at 1% health so more realistically You will get usually somwhere in the area of 20-40% more heal. This brings us to another point. Coag is not "almost as strong as other top heals" in the game. Base scaling formula for coag is 0,13 max stat+ 1,36 max power when necro, templar, sorc and nb top burst heals scaling formula is 0,16 max stat+1,63 max power which makes base tooltips for necro, templar, sorc and nb 20-25% higher than coag have. That is pretty significant difference which basically means that for a DK to reach similar tooltip on a coag like for example nb have on healthy offering DK needs to drop down to the region of 40% health. When I play BG in my cmx max heal i had on a DK from coag was just around 2k higher than my max healthy offering heal on a nb. Both classes were wearing similar setups and were reaching similar max stats. It is really not that great when You consider a fact that nb gets also minor mending and way lower cost of healthy offering and dk at best will get 2k more heal (15k vs 13k)and only when he's near death because on average nb heal will have similar or even higher value. That additional 2k heal on low health is all DK gets from coag whil some ot the other classes have way better secondary effects like massive magicka restore on templar, mentioned cost reduction and minor mending on nb, resistance buff on necro or AoE stun+dmg+ higher chance to chilled status effect(minor maim) on warden. And now even bigger elephant in the room. Templar, sorc, nb and necro spammable burst sealfheals are also crossheals. You really cannot pretend that this part isn't important in real PvP. DK is the only class without reliable crossheal while his main heal gets just a bit more healing when user is near death. All things considered I would say that best class burst selfheals starting from best to worst would go like that: healthy offering, arctic blast, honor the death, resistant flesh, coagulating blood and at the end matriarch. Fact that coag pulls the highest numbers in cmx while under lucky circumstances doesn't make it the best in the game. That additional heal alone won't remove the fact that every other class have way better seccondary effects and option to use selfheal as a crossheal.

Fair enough on the wings and the scaling for coag, I still reckon coag is one of the best self-heals in the game though.

My point overall was that DK is very far from being as weak as was being claimed and that point very much still stands.

axi

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

People who think sorcerer is OP has either never played one OR has been on the receiving end of being completely destroyed by a better player who is on one. I have seen players in zone chat say sorcerer is trash, but then when they change alliance or duel or play against me in bgs and get ripped apart, they just say its broken or OP because of "shield spam" "using 3 Shields". It's amusing really. Shields are physically the absolute worst form of defence in the game. I wonder what these players are going to say when sheilds inevitably get buffed ? Hopefully? Hopefully Zos plays good Santa this year and finally buff a sub par class

[snip]

[snip] If sorc is half as OP as you claim it is, you should be able to make a new sorc character and have no trouble jumping straight into cyrodiil and kill everyone in there on your own without anyone else and without any practice or competent build.

[snip]

I do not need to make a character, i want to play my character I started. But with a lot of changes some classes become much worse than it was 2-3+ years ago. Some of them lose their unique skills and because of this they are bad balanced in compare to other classes.

Just as example DK with reflecting wings like it was 3+ years ago is much different from current DK.

The same DK lose not only wings but moltan armaments, that both were DK unique skills.

Sorc do not really lose anything, so in compare to nerfed classes it overperform them, because balance was made whyle classes had their unique skills and game was different.

Then donate classes like warden and necromancer were added, but old classes that lose good uniques skills do not get anything in exchange.

It is not hard to see that not nerfed classes are just better. But it is not a reason to make new character.

At least by simple reason, that if game will not become better it is not a lot of reason play it, so spend time on new alt is just waist of time, nothing more than that.

Are you really going to say that the DK, which is a very close second to one of the strongest class's in the game is weaker than the weakest class in the game?

Wings are super strong, especially against a range class like sorcerer. 6 seconds of free 50% mitigation + reflected damage against range attacks or 50% mitigation against range attacks + snare removal + immunity is crazy strong. The only stronger similar abilities are warden slab because that ability stuns and warden got recently buffed and sword and board ULTIMATE.

DK has THE best self heal in the game with coag. A burst heal that is already almost as strong as the top heals in the game that nearly doubles its heal the lower your health is. DK also has cinder storm which provides plars cleansing ritual levels of healing on top of being spammable to allow for dk to permanently block everything.

Molten armaments was being abused to 1 shot people in pvp with a single heavy attack, sorcs have never been able to do that, even before they got gutted over the past year, and even with their unique 10% heavy attack passive that was removed from bound armaments in the U35 mass nerf of sorcerer.

As for sorc not losing anything, did you see the nerfs the class received in U35??????

Half of the classes kit was nerfed into the ground. Sorc was nerfed so hard in U35 that the devs had to buff 2 skills for the PVE pet build each with a 100% damage increase as a last minute "save" of the class to allow sorcs 1 build that could still be viable for pve. The class was literally dead, even on zos's own spreadsheets, before they did those last minute pve buffs.
Outside of that, it's hard to lose what the class doesn't have to begin with. It doesn't have healing, it doesn't have mitigation, it doesn't have anything that allows it to stand and fight, so sure, from that perspective it's pretty hard to lose what it never had in the first place.

If you're talking about 3 years ago, go play the current game, dk is one of the top classes in the game currently and has been ever since it got extreme buffs in U32/U33.

[snip]

[snip]

I understand that you "protect your class" to make it look week and do not get nerfs, but based on all time this gme exist - sorc newer get nerfs, so I do not think some thing will change.

The same time sorcs are not too OP.

You can always overperform 1 sorc with 2 sorcs

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Based on all time game exist sorc never gets nerfs You say? it really sounds like You havn't been here when game started. Sorc in 2014-2016 was played completly differently than right now. Core abilities of sorc defense, ofense and mobility all were nerfed. For defense sorc had shield that lasted 20 seconds, had better scaling and crit dmg immunity, for offense sorc had stun on crystal frag which all sorc offensive combo resolved around, for mobility sorc had ball of lightning that absorbed all projectiles (and sometimes even gap closers) for 6 seconds (longer than cost penatly) and cost penatly on subsequent streaks was just 50% increase of base ability cost instead of 33% increase of previous cast which allowed for way more subsequent streaks than right now..

sPark101

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I give up my DK.
For this death match event, i will use sorc and destroy everything in sight.

That's probably me at the bottom on Stormlords.

Luede

such scoreboards are also always to be considered with caution. I only play PvP, but I never play in BGs. Consequently, my MMR is also way down. I can promise you that my first games in DM will end up in the range of 30+Kills / 0-2 Deaths and I wouldn't even have drawn an execute on the bar. There are also often simply people meet opponents who are very well versed in pvp, but rarely play BGs. that's why there is such a strong imbalance.

Quackery

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Is sorc 2 OP for death match ?
Just spam fury and can get the most score, most kill, most assist.
Their streak mean they can live forever by teleport away when in danger.
Their pet mean a big meat shield for themselves and also give a big fat juicy heal to all included team mate.
How can we win against such monster ?

Is this a joke?? Sorcs have been completely destroyed and what you're facing are those last ones who have managed to do the best out of a hideous situation! If anything, sorcs need to be restored to what they were!!

jaws343

Luede wrote: »

such scoreboards are also always to be considered with caution. I only play PvP, but I never play in BGs. Consequently, my MMR is also way down. I can promise you that my first games in DM will end up in the range of 30+Kills / 0-2 Deaths and I wouldn't even have drawn an execute on the bar. There are also often simply people meet opponents who are very well versed in pvp, but rarely play BGs. that's why there is such a strong imbalance.

Yeah, I can spin up a new sorc character with freshly crafted gear and minimal skills at level 10 using only 1 bar and wreck a bunch of new players for a fancy looking 30-0 screen shot.

tinythinker

rpa wrote: »

Could this be a nerf sorc thread?

Once again it is time for the ESO nerf song (to the tune of Devos' Whip It!):

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

When my character goes down
[You must nerf it...]
More QQ posts will be found
[Unless you nerf it]
They won't go away
[Until they nerf it]

I say nerf it
Nerf it good
I say nerf it
Nerf it good

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

When a good time turns around
You must whip it
You will never live it down
Unless you whip it
No one gets away
Until they whip it
I say whip it
Whip it good
I say whip it
Whip it good

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

Melzo

There are meta builds in the game and all the rest)) Strong players play at high mmr on bg, but there are not as many of them as it seems. The bottom line is that if you play often, then you will meet the same nicknames in the game. And I can say with confidence that it is very difficult to defeat this bunch of players with a mana sorcerer, but this does not make the sorcerer's weak. I would say that mana sorcerer is not a meta build. He's good at medium MMR. If you create a hybrid sorcerer you can compete with these players. That's the whole point. There are no necromancers at high mmr, sorcerers play from hybridization and templars are perverted as best they can. By the way, sometimes the templars are good at it... As for the other classes, they are good in any form.

NordSwordnBoard

Melzo wrote: »

There are no necromancers at high mmr, sorcerers play from hybridization and templars are perverted as best they can. By the way, sometimes the templars are good at it... As for the other classes, they are good in any form.

"You said your synergy would purify me, instead the person next to me got hit with plague!"

VvwvenomwvV

My sorc isn't OP....

jecks33

LOL imagine starting a "nerf sorc train" in 2022

Shihp00

A Beginner class isn't meant to be "OP", you probably just ran into an experienced sorc demolishing players new to pvp. As a stamden/necro main, magsorcs are my Favorite targets in BGs. Good sorcs can only streak away while bad ones gets splat no contest. StamSorc bros are another story!