CC Is Out Of Control

ketsparrowhawk

Hello,

Crowd control is way too oppressive in Battlegrounds these days. A mele build can't even approach a fight without first wading through 6 Walls of Frost. Removing the immobilization from Wall of Frost would go a very long way to alleviate this frustrating feature of the current META.

Thanks!

Ket

deleted221205-002626

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Hello,

Crowd control is way too oppressive in Battlegrounds these days. A mele build can't even approach a fight without first wading through 6 Walls of Frost. Removing the immobilization from Wall of Frost would go a very long way to alleviate this frustrating feature of the current META.

Thanks!

Ket

u can CHARGE in! no walking needed!

WALKING!?!?! like who even does that! =p

Turtle_Bot

It can be frustrating, but there are a lot of skills and sets that get around this.

1. Gap closers, essentially teleport you to the target, you may be immobilised when you arrive there, but you still arrive there unless you get knocked backwards.
2. Snare/soft CC immunity through abilities like Race Against Time from the Psijic skill line, warden wings, etc. these allow you to run through those areas unhindered (assuming performance doesn't get in the way of this, but that is another issue).
3. dodge roll after getting immobilised, it gets you out of the area and closer to your target while avoiding damage. It is also extremely free to use with how little it costs and how much sustain there is currently in the game.
4. run snow treaders and build speed into your build with 3 swift, celerity cp and major expedition buff. you will be moving so close to sprint speed while being permanently immune to all snares and soft CC that you won't notice the "limitation" on the mythic of not being able to sprint.

ketsparrowhawk

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

It can be frustrating, but there are a lot of skills and sets that get around this.

1. Gap closers, essentially teleport you to the target, you may be immobilised when you arrive there, but you still arrive there unless you get knocked backwards.
2. Snare/soft CC immunity through abilities like Race Against Time from the Psijic skill line, warden wings, etc. these allow you to run through those areas unhindered (assuming performance doesn't get in the way of this, but that is another issue).
3. dodge roll after getting immobilised, it gets you out of the area and closer to your target while avoiding damage. It is also extremely free to use with how little it costs and how much sustain there is currently in the game.
4. run snow treaders and build speed into your build with 3 swift, celerity cp and major expedition buff. you will be moving so close to sprint speed while being permanently immune to all snares and soft CC that you won't notice the "limitation" on the mythic of not being able to sprint.

Right. I'm well aware of these things. Thank you.

Syiccal

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

blktauna

I get serial ccd /rooted etc after breaking free and with unstoppable pots.. As far as I'm concerned CC immunity is a lie.

ketsparrowhawk

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

The counters were sufficient before U35. Now they are not.

the1andonlyskwex

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

The counters were sufficient before U35. Now they are not.

I understand how u35 affected damage and healing, but how did it change cc?

ketsparrowhawk

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

The counters were sufficient before U35. Now they are not.

I understand how u35 affected damage and healing, but how did it change cc?

Strongly incentivizing the use of frost damage which adds a lot of passive CC to the environment.

Zastrix

Yep, if you see a frost warden and you're in melee range you better hope they're a newb. You can get stunned -> hard frozen (where you're an ice statue) -> soft frozen (where you just can't move) -> repeat

Your stamina just goes down down down and can easily deplete 20k stamina in like 3 seconds. And that's without using the fact that ice spells eat up stamina (afaik it's like that I MIGHT be wrong).

robpr

Zastrix wrote: »

Yep, if you see a frost warden and you're in melee range you better hope they're a newb. You can get stunned -> hard frozen (where you're an ice statue) -> soft frozen (where you just can't move) -> repeat

Your stamina just goes down down down and can easily deplete 20k stamina in like 3 seconds. And that's without using the fact that ice spells eat up stamina (afaik it's like that I MIGHT be wrong).

Staying at range is not better either as Crystal Slab stuns and hits like a truck if not dodged (wasting stamina)

Mrtoobyy

I totally agree and have made another thread about this. But sorry to say mate, don't get your hopes up cause even IF ZOS acknowledge this it will take them a long time to adress it.

Syiccal

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

The counters were sufficient before U35. Now they are not.

Sorry I was joking, probs didn't come across like that...cc is broken, not the fact that it's so easily applied but by the fact it doesn't have cool down alot of the time especially on roots.

Syiccal

When I'm in bg and ice is everywhere, topple charge to get in a fight and then toppling out to other players is my best ability lolz

SkaraMinoc

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

It can be frustrating, but there are a lot of skills and sets that get around this.

4. run snow treaders and build speed into your build with 3 swift, celerity cp and major expedition buff. you will be moving so close to sprint speed while being permanently immune to all snares and soft CC that you won't notice the "limitation" on the mythic of not being able to sprint.

That's a good way to nerf your damage. I do understand what you're getting at though. Having to recast Race Against Time every 4 seconds, for example, just isn't fun. Also, wasting global cooldowns on cc immunity may result in less overall damage than if you were to simply run Snow Treaders.

Stam Sorcs have a huge advantage in this meta with Ball Lightning because they can go 100% max damage build while still having Major Expedition from (Perfected) Quick Cloak and Minor Expedition from Hurricane.

ketsparrowhawk

Syiccal wrote: »

When I'm in bg and ice is everywhere, topple charge to get in a fight and then toppling out to other players is my best ability lolz

We're playing two different games. This is not a viable strategy in the matches I typically get into. Sure you can gap close to someone but you might land one attack before they simply take a step in any direction and then they're out of range. Dodge out of the root to get to them and guess what.. rooted again. You can cast momentum every 4 seconds I guess. But as another commenter stated that isn't fun at all.

6 months ago there was no problem with cc. Wall of Frost is the only issue imo. If the root were to be removed from that ability then it would be problem solved.

Jabbs_Giggity

Dekrypted wrote: »

I anticipated this happening with the clear and obvious buffs coming to wardens. Normally in almost every kit, I run some sort of snare immunity whether it's shuffle or forward momentum, or otherwise.

The amount of ccs happening, soft or hard is really due to a lack of balance. The lack of balance is magnified in no cp environments such as bgs.

Snare immunities and snow treaders do take the edge off, but BOY is the balance in this game messed up right now.

Snare immunities do not work in Cyrodiil prime time. Can fill a novel with insurances I cast RAT and still snared or immediately resnared.
Mythics are simply p2w. I don't have content post morrowind because I refuse to give a company my money for broken products.

Please try again sir.

GetAgrippa

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Mythics are simply p2w. I don't have content post morrowind because I refuse to give a company my money for broken products.

Please try again sir.

If you wanna be stuck in a meta from 6 years ago then that's no one else's fault.

axi

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

It can be frustrating, but there are a lot of skills and sets that get around this.

1. Gap closers, essentially teleport you to the target, you may be immobilised when you arrive there, but you still arrive there unless you get knocked backwards.
2. Snare/soft CC immunity through abilities like Race Against Time from the Psijic skill line, warden wings, etc. these allow you to run through those areas unhindered (assuming performance doesn't get in the way of this, but that is another issue).
3. dodge roll after getting immobilised, it gets you out of the area and closer to your target while avoiding damage. It is also extremely free to use with how little it costs and how much sustain there is currently in the game.
4. run snow treaders and build speed into your build with 3 swift, celerity cp and major expedition buff. you will be moving so close to sprint speed while being permanently immune to all snares and soft CC that you won't notice the "limitation" on the mythic of not being able to sprint.

The main problem here is that You are forced to actively react to the things that are passively applied.

axi

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

Are these counters passively active without any sacrifice like mentioned CCs are?

GetAgrippa

axi wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

Are these counters passively active without any sacrifice like mentioned CCs are?

Snow treaders is literally a set it and forget it thing. It's not much of a sacrifice either. 3 swift is just losing roughly 300 spell/weapon damage over infused jewelry. That's not a whole lot.

Outside of that though, what's wrong with roll dodge? In this meta where most people can run double regen food like jewels of misrule or orzorgas, I don't see why players mag and Stam can't just roll dodge. It's not a new mechanic and stam sustain is easy to come by these days.

axi

GetAgrippa wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So your aware of the many counters, but yet still complain cc's....

Are these counters passively active without any sacrifice like mentioned CCs are?

Snow treaders is literally a set it and forget it thing. It's not much of a sacrifice either. 3 swift is just losing roughly 300 spell/weapon damage over infused jewelry. That's not a whole lot.

Wearing snow treaders and 3 swift is a massive sacrifice. That is a reason barely anyone is using it. You give up on dmg (3x infused is like 5% dmg), You give up on other mythic so either some defense or even more dmg(if it would be sea serpent it's over 15% dmg loss) and You give up on sprint so when things get hot you will be slower unless You will incorporate some major/minor expedition ability but at this point You outplayed Yourself because You could be as well using race against time. Also I think snow treaders doesnt work in no CP Cyro so even if that mythic would be a solution it wouldn't work everywhere.

GetAgrippa

axi wrote: »

You outplayed Yourself because You could be as well using race against time.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

It's like there are ample solutions to this that the game provides.

axi

GetAgrippa wrote: »

axi wrote: »

You outplayed Yourself because You could be as well using race against time.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

It's like there are ample solutions to this that the game provides.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Are these solutions passively active without any sacrifice, like mentioned CCs are?

ketsparrowhawk

GetAgrippa wrote: »

axi wrote: »

You outplayed Yourself because You could be as well using race against time.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

It's like there are ample solutions to this that the game provides.

6 months ago the solutions were sufficient. Things have changed since then and the flow and feel of combat is less enjoyable than before. I agree with @axi that the main issue is that roots are applied mindlessly via wall of frost. The DK Talons ability also roots, but only in the instant that it is cast.. and so it's not an issue imo.

OBJnoob

For every person that feels bogged down in endless cc there's another person running circles around rocks and towers seemingly impervious to all cc attempts for incredible amounts of time.

While lag and other related performance issues are contributors to this discrepancy of experience I also feel like skill level is important. You simply have to be able to deal with cc to pvp. It isn't that hard.

GetAgrippa

All I know is I've adapted easily to this meta. I have RaT or an equivalent on every toon
and I have ample Stam to roll dodge. It's barely phased me.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

6 months ago the solutions were sufficient. Things have changed since then and the flow and feel of combat is less enjoyable than before.

Weird, I'm just as capable of roll dodging now as I was six months ago.

Jabbs_Giggity

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Mythics are simply p2w. I don't have content post morrowind because I refuse to give a company my money for broken products.

Please try again sir.

If you wanna be stuck in a meta from 6 years ago then that's no one else's fault.

So instead spend money towards a company that puts out continously broken products just to get an advantage in- game? That is the very definition of p2w.
Make mythics accessible to base game, then we'll talk.

axi

OBJnoob wrote: »

For every person that feels bogged down in endless cc there's another person running circles around rocks and towers seemingly impervious to all cc attempts for incredible amounts of time.

While lag and other related performance issues are contributors to this discrepancy of experience I also feel like skill level is important. You simply have to be able to deal with cc to pvp. It isn't that hard.

Maybe You didn't read but original poster had mainly BGs in mind. You don't have freedom of kiting people around there as effectively as it can be done in Cyro.

Jabbs_Giggity

OBJnoob wrote: »

For every person that feels bogged down in endless cc there's another person running circles around rocks and towers seemingly impervious to all cc attempts for incredible amounts of time.

While lag and other related performance issues are contributors to this discrepancy of experience I also feel like skill level is important. You simply have to be able to deal with cc to pvp. It isn't that hard.

I often see DKs kiting as if they're stam sorcs with what seems major and minor expedition plus three swift that NEVER get CC'd, snared or rooted. Never see them cast RAT or elude and not running 2h for FM. Often I can barely keep up on my stamsorc. Please explain how one can have such speed to kite and 100% uptime on CC, root and snare immunity... what mechanics provide this?

OBJnoob

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

For every person that feels bogged down in endless cc there's another person running circles around rocks and towers seemingly impervious to all cc attempts for incredible amounts of time.

While lag and other related performance issues are contributors to this discrepancy of experience I also feel like skill level is important. You simply have to be able to deal with cc to pvp. It isn't that hard.

I often see DKs kiting as if they're stam sorcs with what seems major and minor expedition plus three swift that NEVER get CC'd, snared or rooted. Never see them cast RAT or elude and not running 2h for FM. Often I can barely keep up on my stamsorc. Please explain how one can have such speed to kite and 100% uptime on CC, root and snare immunity... what mechanics provide this?

Hey man, I can't answer that question. I'm not one of 'those' players myself I choose not to use immovable potions because I'm a button masher with poor sustain that crutches on tripots. And I don't slot slippery CP or anything similar because the button masher in me prefers to do it myself. And I don't use snow treaders because I don't have them. What I do do though is cast bird of prey a lot, break free quickly, and have enough stam on my mag toon to roll dodge a bit.

So there's a decently long list of what they might be doing... I'm just here to say that even without that I'm just fine.

Maybe one of those stamsorc DKs will come tell you their secret. But honestly the way you phrased the question it sounds to me like you'd sooner accept that they're cheating than hear how they're doing it.

ALL of the ways to combat ccs have been discussed here. Oh, there's also escapist poisons. Use the tools at your disposal.

I suspect, notwithstanding the obvious lag and performance issues, that the people here complaining just need practice. Either they're failing to slot RaT or they don't have enough stam/sustain or... Or maybe they're a little too squishy. Meaning when I get rooted and I have low health I can hypothetically eat a hit or two so there's no need to panic roll. I have a choice between rolling, unsnaring myself, or block casting heals. Perhaps some people don't feel as durable, can't withstand 2 seconds of focus fire, and thus feel they have no choice/strategy.