Cant believe Maras went live (but I can)

ThirdEye_PULSE

Mara’s Balm – Heavy
2 – Adds 1487 Armor
3 – Adds 424 Critical Resistance
4 – Adds 4% Healing Taken
5 – When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.


Well, looks like we all have about 2 weeks to PVP until the meta sets in with the best defensive set for every build in the game and everyone becomes an nearly unkillable tank. Dont believe? Watch this.

https://youtu.be/gW2rAvPffXs

He let two friends unload all their damage on him just going through both their rotations. He only let Maras proc and one HoT to stay alive. Thats all he had to do.

Now imagine dodgerolls, blocks, burst heals... yeah, this is gonna be a problem. Everyone already said so as well.

Unified_Gaming

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Mara’s Balm – Heavy
2 – Adds 1487 Armor
3 – Adds 424 Critical Resistance
4 – Adds 4% Healing Taken
5 – When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.


Well, looks like we all have about 2 weeks to PVP until the meta sets in with the best defensive set for every build in the game and everyone becomes an nearly unkillable tank. Dont believe? Watch this.

https://youtu.be/gW2rAvPffXs

He let two friends unload all their damage on him just going through both their rotations. He only let Maras proc and one HoT to stay alive. Thats all he had to do.

Now imagine dodgerolls, blocks, burst heals... yeah, this is gonna be a problem. Everyone already said so as well.

As long as it doesn't impact pve then it'll be fine 😉

To fix they need to make that small heal proc once per second or every 2 if keeping to hot standards.

ThirdEye_PULSE

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Mara’s Balm – Heavy
2 – Adds 1487 Armor
3 – Adds 424 Critical Resistance
4 – Adds 4% Healing Taken
5 – When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.


Well, looks like we all have about 2 weeks to PVP until the meta sets in with the best defensive set for every build in the game and everyone becomes an nearly unkillable tank. Dont believe? Watch this.

https://youtu.be/gW2rAvPffXs

He let two friends unload all their damage on him just going through both their rotations. He only let Maras proc and one HoT to stay alive. Thats all he had to do.

Now imagine dodgerolls, blocks, burst heals... yeah, this is gonna be a problem. Everyone already said so as well.

As long as it doesn't impact pve then it'll be fine 😉

To fix they need to make that small heal proc once per second or every 2 if keeping to hot standards.

Yeah. Any negative effect ending... seems like an anti ball group set because it only gets better the more people that attack you and it triggers from numerous different effects. Could even add effects your yourself that hinder you for added heals. Its insane... and even ball groups will run it. Hands down best defensive set currently in game. No reason for everyone not to run it.

Rhaegar75

Is it true the healing will be tuned down in September? Someone mentioned this in game but can’t seem to be able to fact check it

Katheriah

This set is just hilarious

Casul

Where are you seeing only 1 HoT. I saw rapid regeneration, channel focus, extended ritual, living dark, overflowing altar and illustrious healing.

Not that the set isn't strong but that is far from the set + 1 HoT you mentioned in the OP.

StihlReign

On the schedule to be nerfed September 5.

oops - here ya go! https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7695753/#Comment_7695753

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Zos is just obsessed with making everyone tanky in pvp. To an extent it makes the game more skill based, but after a certain point defense carries undeserving players just as much, if not more then too much damage.

Rhaegar75

StihlReign wrote: »

On the schedule to be nerfed September 5.

oops - here ya go! https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7695753/#Comment_7695753

Thank you!!

I’m interested in how strong the nerf will be

ThirdEye_PULSE

BuildMan wrote: »

Where are you seeing only 1 HoT. I saw rapid regeneration, channel focus, extended ritual, living dark, overflowing altar and illustrious healing.

Not that the set isn't strong but that is far from the set + 1 HoT you mentioned in the OP.

In the video he said he was only using one HoT. Was at work listening so i didnt watch entire video. Took him at his word. Did he activate all his heals?

Yeah rewatched video. He has all that slotted but he isnt activating them.... thats a indication gonna be insane. Imagine if he was using his full toolkit lol

ThirdEye_PULSE

StihlReign wrote: »

On the schedule to be nerfed September 5.

oops - here ya go! https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7695753/#Comment_7695753

They said only reducing healing. So they clearly intend this set to be for anti ball groups. Not sure that will be enough to limit its use in other situations. Guess we will see. At least their doing something.

Holycannoli

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Is it true the healing will be tuned down in September? Someone mentioned this in game but can’t seem to be able to fact check it

Yes it was mentioned on the forum a day or two ago.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know that we are planning to reduce the healing done from this item set in the next incremental patch, which is currently scheduled for the week of September 5.

DrSlaughtr

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Zos is just obsessed with making everyone tanky in pvp. To an extent it makes the game more skill based, but after a certain point defense carries undeserving players just as much, if not more then too much damage.

It's because every time we have a damage meta with low TTK the forums explode with people mad about dying.

Meanwhile when we're in a tanky high TTK meta the forums explode with people mad about players not dying.

TTK is too high. 1vXing is out of control. A 12 man tank group can own any keep with combined damage and massive survivability.

Until they make it a hard choice between damage, healing and armor, you'll continue to have this. As long as most classes can easily build for all three, you'll continue to have this issue.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

ninjagank wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Zos is just obsessed with making everyone tanky in pvp. To an extent it makes the game more skill based, but after a certain point defense carries undeserving players just as much, if not more then too much damage.

It's because every time we have a damage meta with low TTK the forums explode with people mad about dying.

Meanwhile when we're in a tanky high TTK meta the forums explode with people mad about players not dying.

TTK is too high. 1vXing is out of control. A 12 man tank group can own any keep with combined damage and massive survivability.

Until they make it a hard choice between damage, healing and armor, you'll continue to have this. As long as most classes can easily build for all three, you'll continue to have this issue.

I distinctly remember during the last tank meta people saying "we only build tanky because damage is too high™". Weird that now when damage is as low as it has ever been people still build tanky. Where is the shift away from tanking that I was promised?

Of course I always knew they were talking rubbish, but that was the narrative of the time and its hard to convince people once they get a slogan in their minds.

DrSlaughtr

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Zos is just obsessed with making everyone tanky in pvp. To an extent it makes the game more skill based, but after a certain point defense carries undeserving players just as much, if not more then too much damage.

It's because every time we have a damage meta with low TTK the forums explode with people mad about dying.

Meanwhile when we're in a tanky high TTK meta the forums explode with people mad about players not dying.

TTK is too high. 1vXing is out of control. A 12 man tank group can own any keep with combined damage and massive survivability.

Until they make it a hard choice between damage, healing and armor, you'll continue to have this. As long as most classes can easily build for all three, you'll continue to have this issue.

I distinctly remember during the last tank meta people saying "we only build tanky because damage is too high™". Weird that now when damage is as low as it has ever been people still build tanky. Where is the shift away from tanking that I was promised?

Of course I always knew they were talking rubbish, but that was the narrative of the time and its hard to convince people once they get a slogan in their minds.

Players build to do damage, but because you can have significant damage while also building significant tankiness with no drawback. The best thing they could do is soft enforce the role selection to give buffs and debuffs based on choice. Select tank? Higher survibility, low damage output. DPS? Opposite. Healer? Moderate armor, high healing output, moderate to low damage. Maybe that's not a great solution, but one of the biggest issues with PVP is the lack of drawbacks for the paths you choose. Currently only NB really suffers major drawbacks for going glass canon. Sorcs to a lesser degree. Every other class can be damage tanks. Just my two cents.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

ninjagank wrote: »

Players build to do damage, but because you can have significant damage while also building significant tankiness with no drawback. The best thing they could do is soft enforce the role selection to give buffs and debuffs based on choice. Select tank? Higher survibility, low damage output. DPS? Opposite. Healer? Moderate armor, high healing output, moderate to low damage. Maybe that's not a great solution, but one of the biggest issues with PVP is the lack of drawbacks for the paths you choose. Currently only NB really suffers major drawbacks for going glass canon. Sorcs to a lesser degree. Every other class can be damage tanks. Just my two cents.

Yeah I had that exact idea about role selection in pvp, but I don't think I ever made the thread. It would certainly be a start for addressing that specific problem. Just getting so tired of doing a full combo into someone only for them to push their instant heal button. Its like if everyone in this game has access to Lay on hands from warcraft with a 1 second cd(full health heal with a ten minute cooldown in wow). Literally have to kill someone in 1 stun or they full heal, but everyone hates getting "1 shotted".

Holycannoli

ninjagank wrote: »

It's because every time we have a damage meta with low TTK the forums explode with people mad about dying.

Meanwhile when we're in a tanky high TTK meta the forums explode with people mad about players not dying.

TTK is too high. 1vXing is out of control. A 12 man tank group can own any keep with combined damage and massive survivability.

Until they make it a hard choice between damage, healing and armor, you'll continue to have this. As long as most classes can easily build for all three, you'll continue to have this issue.

Damage and healing need to be separated. They should not both be based on spell/weapon damage. Crosshealing is an even bigger problem though.

Maybe it's because I'm more a MMORPG traditionalist but DD should not be dishing out healing and healers should not be dishing out damage. If you build for both you should wind up mediocre with both.

The biggest drawback is actually the backbone of ESO's stat system. If they made it more like Morrowind instead of Skyrim you could have much more easily separated damage stats from healing stats. In Morrowind you'd train in Restoration, Destruction, Axe, Mace etc. instead of Magicka and Stamina which are too generic to allow for true build variety and stat separation.

MetallicMonk

ninjagank wrote: »

Players build to do damage, but because you can have significant damage while also building significant tankiness with no drawback. The best thing they could do is soft enforce the role selection to give buffs and debuffs based on choice. Select tank? Higher survibility, low damage output. DPS? Opposite. Healer? Moderate armor, high healing output, moderate to low damage. Maybe that's not a great solution, but one of the biggest issues with PVP is the lack of drawbacks for the paths you choose. Currently only NB really suffers major drawbacks for going glass canon. Sorcs to a lesser degree. Every other class can be damage tanks. Just my two cents.

This has I only gank on nightblade written all over it lol. Sorcs are in a far worse position, they're 100% the worst class in the game currently with wardens surpassing them this update.

Currently on Nightblade I have near 30k resists, 3k crit resist, and am still able to have well over 7k wd/sd, over 100% crit damage, and 15-16k pen, hitting 15k incaps and 20k+ bows. Nightblades are even more powerful this patch, gank builds just aren't as free.

SkaraMinoc

Some data for fun.

15 minute deathmatch, Istirus Outpost Arena
1189 Mara's Balm procs (1.33 procs per second on average)





Mara's Balm feels like a persistent Resolving Vigor during brawls. Sometimes 2-3x Resolving Vigor when focused.

ThirdEye_PULSE

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some data for fun.

15 minute deathmatch, Istirus Outpost Arena
1189 Mara's Balm procs (1.33 procs per second on average)





Mara's Balm feels like a persistent Resolving Vigor during brawls. Sometimes 2-3x Resolving Vigor when focused.

Nice. Only person in whole BG that had zero deaths. Was that common for you before gearing Mara's? Wonder how good its gonna be after nerf coming up. I mean if its equal too 3 vigors when focused... even 50% healing nerf would still be super useful defensive set... perhaps still BIS.

Give it like 2 weeks and gonna be meta, nerf to healing or not.

SkaraMinoc

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Nice. Only person in whole BG that had zero deaths. Was that common for you before gearing Mara's?

On average I have 2 to 3 deaths per game. Even without Mara's Balm I may have had zero deaths because we had two healers. Normally I run two damage sets, especially in the current meta. There are many tanky Wardens and DKs and you need the most damage possible. I'm just messing around with Mara's Balm to see what all the fuss is about.

taugrim

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some data for fun.

15 minute deathmatch, Istirus Outpost Arena
1189 Mara's Balm procs (1.33 procs per second on average)





Mara's Balm feels like a persistent Resolving Vigor during brawls. Sometimes 2-3x Resolving Vigor when focused.

Nice. Only person in whole BG that had zero deaths. Was that common for you before gearing Mara's? Wonder how good its gonna be after nerf coming up. I mean if its equal too 3 vigors when focused... even 50% healing nerf would still be super useful defensive set... perhaps still BIS.

Give it like 2 weeks and gonna be meta, nerf to healing or not.

It's good to see some data.

@SkaraMinoc is effective even without sets like this. He's been running a brawler 1h Sorc build (sometimes with Bash IIRC) where he has very high uptime and good survivability even before Update 35.

I do wonder what counts as a negative effect removed from you. E.g. if you refresh a DoT, does that count? Or only when it expires?

It's a super cheese set, but in 10 days it will be nerfed.

I don't bother to build with cheese because it's a crutch, so it getting nerfed will have 0 impact on me. I did make almost 2.5mm flipping Mara's Balm items this week.

Faulgor

Holycannoli wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

It's because every time we have a damage meta with low TTK the forums explode with people mad about dying.

Meanwhile when we're in a tanky high TTK meta the forums explode with people mad about players not dying.

TTK is too high. 1vXing is out of control. A 12 man tank group can own any keep with combined damage and massive survivability.

Until they make it a hard choice between damage, healing and armor, you'll continue to have this. As long as most classes can easily build for all three, you'll continue to have this issue.

Damage and healing need to be separated. They should not both be based on spell/weapon damage. Crosshealing is an even bigger problem though.

Maybe it's because I'm more a MMORPG traditionalist but DD should not be dishing out healing and healers should not be dishing out damage. If you build for both you should wind up mediocre with both.

The biggest drawback is actually the backbone of ESO's stat system. If they made it more like Morrowind instead of Skyrim you could have much more easily separated damage stats from healing stats. In Morrowind you'd train in Restoration, Destruction, Axe, Mace etc. instead of Magicka and Stamina which are too generic to allow for true build variety and stat separation.

They already went halfway there when they changed proc sets to scale with player stats.
Damaging effects scale with weapon/spell damage, healing with stamina/magicka.
Bar of overhauling the whole attribute system the way you describe (which I'd prefer and have suggested since beta), that seems to be the only viable way to make this separation happen.

ThirdEye_PULSE

taugrim wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some data for fun.

15 minute deathmatch, Istirus Outpost Arena
1189 Mara's Balm procs (1.33 procs per second on average)





Mara's Balm feels like a persistent Resolving Vigor during brawls. Sometimes 2-3x Resolving Vigor when focused.

Nice. Only person in whole BG that had zero deaths. Was that common for you before gearing Mara's? Wonder how good its gonna be after nerf coming up. I mean if its equal too 3 vigors when focused... even 50% healing nerf would still be super useful defensive set... perhaps still BIS.

Give it like 2 weeks and gonna be meta, nerf to healing or not.

It's good to see some data.

@SkaraMinoc is effective even without sets like this. He's been running a brawler 1h Sorc build (sometimes with Bash IIRC) where he has very high uptime and good survivability even before Update 35.

I do wonder what counts as a negative effect removed from you. E.g. if you refresh a DoT, does that count? Or only when it expires?

It's a super cheese set, but in 10 days it will be nerfed.

I don't bother to build with cheese because it's a crutch, so it getting nerfed will have 0 impact on me. I did make almost 2.5mm flipping Mara's Balm items this week.

Agreed. I also tend to stay away from cheese sets. Although last patch i did end up saving a set of plagebreak for my stamden but never ran it... warden didnt seem in best spot u34 and figured why not even the odds. First cheesy set i even allowed myself to collect in years.
Other than that, i like to know how good i actually am and where i need to improve. Certain sets can muddy the waters.

ThirdEye_PULSE

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some data for fun.

15 minute deathmatch, Istirus Outpost Arena
1189 Mara's Balm procs (1.33 procs per second on average)





Mara's Balm feels like a persistent Resolving Vigor during brawls. Sometimes 2-3x Resolving Vigor when focused.

Looking a little closer at the data. Its doing a lot of work in its present form. 50% healing nerf would put it in line id think and allow it to be what it seems to be intended for; anti ball group solo 1vx set. It seems like a nice cushion for when your getting focused heavily outnumbered the way it procs.

Doubtful id run it in other situations with upcoming nerf though. So overall should be a decent change. We will have to see.

Question: does it seem universally beneficial to each class or do some classes get more benefit from it?

Tommy_The_Gun

* sees yet another thread about Mara’s Balm *

Um... ok then. I guess I am not gonna even bother with grinding this set... because within 3 months (more or less the time it takes for average person to get enough set pieces to make a build) - this set will gonna get wrecked so hard that it will be useless even in crafting or housing lol.

It should not reach live server in its current state, but at last it is not like the old Crimson set that could also kill people (aside from healing you).

ThirdEye_PULSE

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

* sees yet another thread about Mara’s Balm *

Um... ok then. I guess I am not gonna even bother with grinding this set... because within 3 months (more or less the time it takes for average person to get enough set pieces to make a build) - this set will gonna get wrecked so hard that it will be useless even in crafting or housing lol.

It should not reach live server in its current state, but at last it is not like the old Crimson set that could also kill people (aside from healing you).

The set is already live



Its already planned to get nerfed next week. So yeah i wouldnt bother. The main intention of set i believe is 1vx or fighting outnumbered against ball groups. A little overtuned for that in current state. Its purely a pvp set anyways.

Reaver999

As if PvP troll builds aren't annoying enough...

duckdown

Even with 50% nerf mara balm still more powerful dan vigor.

ThirdEye_PULSE

duckdown wrote: »

Even with 50% nerf mara balm still more powerful dan vigor.

Based on that one single set of data someone shared... yeah by about 5%. Also, gets stronger the more your targeted. Its a really hard set to balance just based on healing and not changing proc conditions, or have a cooldown.

katorga

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

On the schedule to be nerfed September 5.

oops - here ya go! https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7695753/#Comment_7695753

Thank you!!

I’m interested in how strong the nerf will be

ZOS seems binary. It will be nerfed to completely useless.

If they nerf the healing by 90% to 211, with current the proc conditions it still heals a ton. If they add a cooldown they can kill the set.

Good on the players who were listing it on guild traders for millions. Smart move.