Moderation of today's Twitch stream

Kirawolfe

Anyone else notice the lightning fast deletion of any comments or questions about U35 in the Twitch stream today?

Made me think of this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/604466/pvp-and-cyrodiil-gets-you-banned-on-twitch/p1

I had a friend who was put into some kind of time out because of his own questions.

They were talking about the game, and folks were asking questions about the game? So... why the heavy-handed moderation?

Ratzkifal

I missed the stream. Good to know that Zenimax didn't change. Do you know of any video examples of the chat? Last time we had people filming their speedrun to get timed-out by typing PvP related things so it was pretty easy to prove what had happened.

Also preemptively tagging @ZOS_Kevin because this ugly topic is rearing its head again.

Kirawolfe

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I missed the stream. Good to know that Zenimax didn't change. Do you know of any video examples of the chat? Last time we had people filming their speedrun to get timed-out by typing PvP related things so it was pretty easy to prove what had happened.

I don't have any video samples, just some screenshots when I noticed it happening every single time.

What upset me was seeing positive comments about U35 left alone until they were crowded out by a bazillion people trying to trigger competitions that weren't happening. Anything questioning U35 or anything negative about U35 was removed within seconds. It's possible the positive comments were censored later, I didn't scroll up, but I honestly found the inability to deal with questions or concerns a little alarming.

They were censoring people asking why their question or comment had been censored.

Jaraal

Out of sight, out of mind.

You don’t have to answer questions that were never asked.

Jamie_Aubrey

Viewer1: FIX PVP
Viewer2: FIX PVP
Viewer3: FIX PVP
Viewer4: FIX PVP
Viewer5: FIX PVP
Viewer6: FIX PVP

You can see why it gets moderated

Ratzkifal

Jaraal wrote: »

Out of sight, out of mind.

You don’t have to answer questions that were never asked.

There are no questions in Ba Sing Se.

Kirawolfe

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

Viewer1: FIX PVP
Viewer2: FIX PVP
Viewer3: FIX PVP
Viewer4: FIX PVP
Viewer5: FIX PVP
Viewer6: FIX PVP

You can see why it gets moderated

That's for part of the thread I was reminded of, sure. That wasn't what was happening today. Although there was a heck of lot of this:

!pet
!pet
!pet
!pet
etc %)

That (and !eso and !trivium) were the only things being spammed.

Soarora

It makes sense, it's a convention not a q&a. Also, I would not be surprised if moderators don't read the entirety of what they're deleting... I was staring at chat impressed they were able to moderate that fast.

Lebkuchen

Questions are distracting. The stream team has to work through a script and promote something in a limited amount of time. Of course they do not want to answer questions. So it is easier to build in a filter system and create a bubble that looks pretty from the outside. And from the inside. Maybe even pay someone to ask the right questions. They are just doing what they are getting paid for. Promote something. They do not know the answers to your questions, they have no clue what's going on. Nobody knows why big companies do what they do. I mean, who wanted cellphones with build in batteries? We have had them for 10 years, and people just keep buying them...

SeaGtGruff

Jaraal wrote: »

Out of sight, out of mind.

You don’t have to answer questions that were never asked.

They weren't there today to answer questions about PvP, Cyrodiil, combat changes, and U35.

As soon as I tuned in at the very beginning of the stream and saw someone post "So does mentioning PvP and Cyrodiil get you banned yet?" or something along that line, I closed the chat window and maximized the stream window, so I could focus on the stream and not be distracted by any off-topic chat.

Kirawolfe

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

They weren't there today to answer questions about PvP, Cyrodiil, combat changes, and U35.

But weren't they showcasing the new content, including Lost Depths, which is included in U35?

SeaGtGruff

"Showcasing" is not defined as "responding to complaints."

BahometZ

I think people are just desperate to hear any ZOS employee thoughts on the unpopular u35, because there is very little communication or recognition from them. There is some, yes, but not enough to explain away the myriad issues that are present. I can't blame people for flocking to an official stream to get some questions answered, because it rarely happens anywhere else.

Ratzkifal

Usually Twitch chat, on the big streams anyway, is like people talking to Dora the explorer, because whoever is streaming can't read messages that fast. So what even is the point to deleting messages about Update 35? Oh right because to anyone watching, it would make ZOS and the game look bad for the bad decisions and communication they've done, nevermind, they gotta censore that. Can't show that people are unhappy with the current state of things. But going on deletion sprees is honestly making ZOS look a lot worse, so, just let people vent their frustrations maybe?
If you can't create happy customers maybe you don't get to pretend like everything is fine. If you can't deal with negative opinions being voiced (in a respectful way!) maybe streams are just not the right format then and videos should be published on youtube instead with comments disabled.
The way it's now, it creates this fake atmosphere were the people on screen pretend update 35 is the best update ever, because every update is the best update ever, but the actual facts are different. It would have taken some stones to step forward on Quakecon, admit that you haven't done the update justice and that you will delay the changes until they are ready. Guess how much favor that would have gained you? A lot of it.

But what do I know.

SeaGtGruff

BahometZ wrote: »

I think people are just desperate to hear any ZOS employee thoughts on the unpopular u35, because there is very little communication or recognition from them. There is some, yes, but not enough to explain away the myriad issues that are present. I can't blame people for flocking to an official stream to get some questions answered, because it rarely happens anywhere else.

Except the QuakeCon streams are planned ahead of time according to a schedule which needs to allow for segments related to a number of different games, not just ESO. Opening up a pre-planned stream that needed to fit into a tight schedule, and allowing it to be turned into a question-and-answer session about U35's combat changes, would have been very unwise, IMO, especially since (1) this forum already has an official thread where people can share their opinions and concerns about that, and (2) those discussions have been "highly-charged" to put it mildly.

BahometZ

I'm not saying it's the right place, I'm just saying I understand where it's coming from. And, perhaps understandably, the interactions from ZOS devs on these forums are few and far between. There are numerous threads posted here lamenting the lack of communication.

Jaimeh

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The way it's now, it creates this fake atmosphere were the people on screen pretend update 35 is the best update ever, because every update is the best update ever, but the actual facts are different. It would have taken some stones to step forward on Quakecon, admit that you haven't done the update justice and that you will delay the changes until they are ready. Guess how much favor that would have gained you? A lot of it.

But what do I know.

'Fake atmosphere' is a great way to put it. If only they came out with an honest conversation with the players, admit their shortcomings, and willing to meet them in the middle, it would go a long way. Furthering the alienation with extreme censorship was not a step in that direction.

opalcity

Nobody knows why big companies do what they do

To make Money. Simple as that.

redlink1979

Jaraal wrote: »

Out of sight, out of mind. (...)

Cirantille

Not to mention, it is not realistic to have an "everything is superb" type of game, in every game there are issues, negatives and positives.

There is nothing wrong with people disliking a product, giving negative feedback or constructive criticism. As long as it is not disrespectful or in a trolling manner, people should not be silenced. People should feel free to voice their opinions.

Edit: typo

OnnuK

I can confirm magic key-word "U35" makes your twitch chat disappear ;-D

Kirawolfe

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"Showcasing" is not defined as "responding to complaints."

They weren't all complaints.

Twitch users are used to not having every question answered on streams. I'm really surprised the mods didn't just let them fly by with the !ESO or !pet spam.

Instead, anything asked or said about U35 that wasn't glowing was censored in seconds.

The positive statements I saw were left until they were off chat.

The impression I got was of a company desperately trying to hide anything that might highlight legitimate issues with their product.

alanmatillab16_ESO

It wasnt a Q&A session about Update 35, PvP or anything else for that matter it was a games convention presentation which are little more than pre-rehersed advertisements.

What makes you think questions etc that were not directly to do with the content of that presentation would not be moderated especially when the "question" is just a rephrased statement about how update 35 is going to break the game and no one is going to be able to do trials etc because they cant burn down a boss in 5 seconds.

Elsonso

I thought it was interesting when Ninja614 mentioned the combat issues on the stream and how it impacted what he did on PTS.

SeaGtGruff

I didn't see any devs in the stream, just Gina, Jessica, LuckyGhost, and Ninja614.

There was a stream following that one which did have Mike, but he might not have anything to do with combat changes.

I imagine that if they were going to have a stream in which they had devs available to discuss and answer questions about U35 and combat changes, they would advertise that stream as such so people could tune in for that specific purpose.

Kirawolfe

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

What makes you think questions etc that were not directly to do with the content of that presentation would not be moderated especially when the "question" is just a rephrased statement about how update 35 is going to break the game and no one is going to be able to do trials etc because they cant burn down a boss in 5 seconds.

This thread isn't about the update itself, or oversimplified distillations of its impact. If you want a more rounded view of that, please visit the PTS board linked at the top of the forums.

This is about the aggressive, excessive censorship that happened during the stream and its bias towards this patch. People asking about the patch were censored, and their follow up 'why was my question deleted?' was censored.

In my eyes, it reflects badly on ZOS.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

I only stayed briefly as it felt like a publicity stream more than anything else.

Strange to see some disgruntled streamers (who complain about issues), accepting to participate

TimeViewer

Not going to bother watching any more because of those who delete in here, may just stop spending money too, sick of this

Jaimeh

Youyouz06 wrote: »

I only stayed briefly as it felt like a publicity stream more than anything else.

Strange to see some disgruntled streamers (who complain about issues), accepting to participate

Well there was a pretty nice prize to be won, and if they make their livelihood from the game, it makes sense they want to be on good terms with the devs, no matter what happens--plus, they genuinely love the game. Same thing with the devs... there was a bit of hypocrisy in all of it sure, but the end of the day, business is business.

Ragnarok0130

Jaimeh wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

I only stayed briefly as it felt like a publicity stream more than anything else.

Strange to see some disgruntled streamers (who complain about issues), accepting to participate

Well there was a pretty nice prize to be won, and if they make their livelihood from the game, it makes sense they want to be on good terms with the devs, no matter what happens--plus, they genuinely love the game. Same thing with the devs... there was a bit of hypocrisy in all of it sure, but the end of the day, business is business.

I agree with your sentiment but don't see hypocrisy being present because those streamers genuinely like ESO and want to support it even if they dislike U35. Throw in the fact that this stream was probably planned months ahead of the U35 debacle and the sweet prize and channel exposure being added benefits makes it less likely for those guys to want to burn bridges by dropping out of a stream they previously committed to. It's just good networking and business development at the end of the day.

Destai

BahometZ wrote: »

I'm not saying it's the right place, I'm just saying I understand where it's coming from. And, perhaps understandably, the interactions from ZOS devs on these forums are few and far between. There are numerous threads posted here lamenting the lack of communication.

I think they'd get this a lot less if they addressed issues head-on. Of course people are going to ask about it, they should organize a Q&A ahead of this.

Kirawolfe wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

What makes you think questions etc that were not directly to do with the content of that presentation would not be moderated especially when the "question" is just a rephrased statement about how update 35 is going to break the game and no one is going to be able to do trials etc because they cant burn down a boss in 5 seconds.

This thread isn't about the update itself, or oversimplified distillations of its impact. If you want a more rounded view of that, please visit the PTS board linked at the top of the forums.

This is about the aggressive, excessive censorship that happened during the stream and its bias towards this patch. People asking about the patch were censored, and their follow up 'why was my question deleted?' was censored.

In my eyes, it reflects badly on ZOS.

Agreed, censorship is a worse look than a rowdy playerbase. Like if I'm a new player seeing this stream, I'm not going to care what U35 is, but I'll see moderation and peace out.